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Israel tells US student to renounce views or leave the country

PoS

PoS

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https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/10/middleeast/israel-denies-student-entry-intl/index.html

Israel has detained an American graduate student at Ben Gurion International Airport for more than a week, accusing her of supporting the Palestinian-led boycott movement of Israel.

Lara Alqasem, a 22-year-old of Palestinian heritage from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, arrived in Israel on a student visa to attend Jerusalem's Hebrew University but never made it out of the airport after she was found to have ties to the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement, better known as BDS, her lawyer, Leora Bechor, said.


"There was no justification to deny her [entry at the airport] when they could have made their decision at the time her student visa was to be issued," Bechor told CNN. "Someone with a visa in hand places their faith in the government's decision, so if the government plans to revoke a visa it has already issued, it must be held accountable."


Alqasem has been held in a detention facility at the airport since arriving in Israel on October 2. She has access to a phone but cannot receive visits except from her lawyers, Bechor said.
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Liberal democracy? Riight...
 
Israel showing they're really not any better than their fascist neighbors. This is right out of the Saudi Arabian playbook. Why do we support a country so heavily that doesn't share our values?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Israel showing they're really not any better than their fascist neighbors. This is right out of the Saudi Arabian playbook. Why do we support a country so heavily that doesn't share our values?
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Better yet, why do Americans who protested border detention here not care when an American is illegally detained abroad?

California

Border detention is a "violation of Jewish ethics, human rights and common decency."

https://www.jweekly.com/2018/06/28/...rder-jews-fan-out-to-protest-child-detention/

New York

"30 organizations, including congregations and liberal Jewish activist groups protested Trump's border policy.."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundr...order-policy-at-ice-headquarters-in-new-york/

And my personal favorite-

Pennsylvania

"Jewish Group Compares Border Detention to Holocaust"

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pr...ns-for-trump-detention-centers-rise-1.6196346


Brad Lander, a Democratic city councilman from Brooklyn said,
“We are required to show up when xenophobia and Islamophobia and racism and white supremacy and anti-Semitism become the policies of our country.”

But not when they ARE the policy in Israel.
 
Jewish Americans are great but I dont think Israel really respects America de facto. Wouldn't be surprised if most see us as their dirty embarrassing distant cousin.
 
In a statement to CNN, Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan said: "Israel, like every democracy, has the right to prevent the entry of foreign nationals, especially those working to harm the country. Therefore we work to prevent the entry of those who promote the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, which calls for Israel's destruction."

Nothing wrong with that, imo. They can run their country however they want.

How about teaching young adults that all countries are different and just because you are American, doesn't mean to get to do whatever you want in other countries. Nor do you have the same rights that you do here.
 
Israel isn't my country....neither is Mexico, Canada, Brazil, Uganda, etc; We have a lot of freedom in this country, but I dont make the mistake of thinking I can carry my Nations rules/laws into other nations and expect them to be respected.

If you visit someone's home, abide by thier rules or dont go into thier home.
 
holbritter said:
In a statement to CNN, Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan said: "Israel, like every democracy, has the right to prevent the entry of foreign nationals, especially those working to harm the country. Therefore we work to prevent the entry of those who promote the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, which calls for Israel's destruction."

Nothing wrong with that, imo. They can run their country however they want.

How about teaching young adults that all countries are different and just because you are American, doesn't mean to get to do whatever you want in other countries. Nor do you have the same rights that you do here.
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That's what open-borders entail - you lose your sovereignty! These idiots are trying to force countries to accept that foolish ideology.

It's about time they get a firm push back! If they get detained and get thrown in the dungeon - so be it.
 
holbritter said:
In a statement to CNN, Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan said: "Israel, like every democracy, has the right to prevent the entry of foreign nationals, especially those working to harm the country. Therefore we work to prevent the entry of those who promote the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, which calls for Israel's destruction."

Nothing wrong with that, imo. They can run their country however they want.

How about teaching young adults that all countries are different and just because you are American, doesn't mean to get to do whatever you want in other countries. Nor do you have the same rights that you do here.
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Excellent post.

Indeed, there's nothing wrong with that as long as she's not a citizen of the Israeli state she has no given right to come here.

It can be understood why this would cause an uproar among Jew haters, but claims that this is against the values of a democracy are only made by those who don't understand what a democracy is.
(As expected from people who would call for the killing of Jews for being born Jewish - they cannot be in their mindset further away from what is considered to be the values of a democracy)
 
dirtpoorchris said:
Jewish Americans are great but I dont think Israel really respects America de facto. Wouldn't be surprised if most see us as their dirty embarrassing distant cousin.
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Nonsense, there isn't a nation anywhere on Earth with a more pro-American public view than Israel. That is actually backed by Pew research surveys.
Do not confuse not wanting to let into the country a non-citizen who works against the existence of the state with an anti-American notion.
 
holbritter said:
In a statement to CNN, Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan said: "Israel, like every democracy, has the right to prevent the entry of foreign nationals, especially those working to harm the country. Therefore we work to prevent the entry of those who promote the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, which calls for Israel's destruction."

Nothing wrong with that, imo. They can run their country however they want.

How about teaching young adults that all countries are different and just because you are American, doesn't mean to get to do whatever you want in other countries. Nor do you have the same rights that you do here.
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Apocalypse said:
Excellent post.

Indeed, there's nothing wrong with that as long as she's not a citizen of the Israeli state she has no given right to come here.

It can be understood why this would cause an uproar among Jew haters, but claims that this is against the values of a democracy are only made by those who don't understand what a democracy is.
(As expected from people who would call for the killing of Jews for being born Jewish - they cannot be in their mindset further away from what is considered to be the values of a democracy)
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The difference is that all she did was exercise her right to free speech, a fundamental human right, in her own country, then later was given a visa to enter just so the Israeli authorities could detain her and punish her for exercising that free speech. It's not surprising though really, Israelis don't respect the human rights of anyone but Israelis. This is petty punishment. Criticizing Israel does not mean they should be able to incarcerate you as revenge to silence dissenters.
 
Why issue her a visa to attend the University, then allow her to fly all the way there before detaining her for a week? That smacks of petty vindictiveness.
 
LowDown said:
No country should be required to admit a person who is dedicated to its destruction. The United States certainly does not permit that.
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So a boycott movement equals a country's destruction? Tell that to those that boycott the NFL and Chik'fil'A.

Manc Skipper said:
Why issue her a visa to attend the University, then allow her to fly all the way there before detaining her for a week? That smacks of petty vindictiveness.
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It's Isreal. They specialize in beating up and killing unarmed civilians.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
The difference is that all she did was exercise her right to free speech, a fundamental human right, in her own country, then later was given a visa to enter just so the Israeli authorities could detain her and punish her for exercising that free speech. It's not surprising though really, Israelis don't respect the human rights of anyone but Israelis. This is petty punishment. Criticizing Israel does not mean they should be able to incarcerate you as revenge to silence dissenters.
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There's nothing that forbids denying entry to people who work against the country's interests or very existence.
That isn't lying in contrary to democratic values as you suggested earlier. It isn't an act against a person's freedom of expression either.
That's something that would be said without understanding what democratic values actually are, something that would be said by those who do not follow these values to begin with.

As to the individual, she promtoes BDS which is a an antisemitic campaign calling for Israel's destruction in more than one way.

On a personal note I wouldn't want any non-citizen who expresses antisemitic and anti-Israeli radical views to gain access to the country, not for security reasons and not for the obvious reason that those servants of evil aren't welcomed by the people they work tirelessly to spread lies and hatred against.
 
I think everyone is missing the point.

What we have here is Lara Alqasem, a US citizen traveling on a US passport to Israel, and was detained because of suspicion of ties to a boycott group. She was headed to Jerusalem's Hebrew University, who has also denounced her detention.

Israel, predictably, is suggesting that this boycott is all about "calls for Israel's destruction." But what we really have is a group who's sole purpose is to "end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law." That's it. A protest to encourage those who support Israel's dealings with Palestinians to change their minds about how they support Israel.

There is now international support for Israel and the Palestinians to change course and end decades of loss of life.

But hell no, we end up talking about "respecting Israel's rights to deny entry." But that is not what is happening either, Israel has already come out with a propaganda move and agreed to release Lara assuming she agrees to publicly denounce this boycott group. Think old school USSR or even Iran method of operation, holding someone captive and having them read a prepared statement under complete duress and coercion.

Ironically, what Israel claims this boycott group wants to do to them they actively do to the Palestinians anyway. Economic restrictions and coercion.

This is Israel hypocritically overreacting... again.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I think everyone is missing the point.

What we have here is Lara Alqasem, a US citizen traveling on a US passport to Israel, and was detained because of suspicion of ties to a boycott group. She was headed to Jerusalem's Hebrew University, who has also denounced her detention.

Israel, predictably, is suggesting that this boycott is all about "calls for Israel's destruction." But what we really have is a group who's sole purpose is to "end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law." That's it. A protest to encourage those who support Israel's dealings with Palestinians to change their minds about how they support Israel.

There is now international support for Israel and the Palestinians to change course and end decades of loss of life.

But hell no, we end up talking about "respecting Israel's rights to deny entry." But that is not what is happening either, Israel has already come out with a propaganda move and agreed to release Lara assuming she agrees to publicly denounce this boycott group. Think old school USSR or even Iran method of operation, holding someone captive and having them read a prepared statement under complete duress and coercion.

Ironically, what Israel claims this boycott group wants to do to them they actively do to the Palestinians anyway. Economic restrictions and coercion.

This is Israel hypocritically overreacting... again.
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You couldn't be further away from the truth.

First of all the BDS isn't just about boycotting or simply calling for Israel to respect Palestinian rights (which is something that always happened), the BDS movement she was a member of and promoted is an antisemitic movement. One of their major goals and declared agendas is to change Israel's character as Jewish. They target Israel's Jewish identity in a way that will end the current Israeli state and create another. That's not simply a protest against Israeli actions defending the lives of Israeli citizens, that is a "protest" agaisnt Israel's very existence.

Secondly where did you get the idea from that she is not being allowed to leave the country? She appealed against the entry denial and as such she awaits the decision of the Israeli court on her issue. She's already claimed she denounces the antisemitic BDS movement, regardless she will probably not be allowed to enter due to her actual actions.

This isn't Israel "hypocritically overreacting again". This is an entirely legitimate approach to the subject of the BDS and against its agenda carriers. Those who would find it unpleasent are those who wish to find it unpleasent to begin with. Comparisons with the USSR and Iran are beyond laughable.
 
Apocalypse said:
There's nothing that forbids denying entry to people who work against the country's interests or very existence.
That isn't lying in contrary to democratic values as you suggested earlier. It isn't an act against a person's freedom of expression either.
That's something that would be said without understanding what democratic values actually are, something that would be said by those who do not follow these values to begin with.

As to the individual, she promtoes BDS which is a an antisemitic campaign calling for Israel's destruction in more than one way.

On a personal note I wouldn't want any non-citizen who expresses antisemitic and anti-Israeli radical views to gain access to the country, not for security reasons and not for the obvious reason that those servants of evil aren't welcomed by the people they work tirelessly to spread lies and hatred against.
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Antizionism and antisemitism are not the same thing.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Antizionism and antisemitism are not the same thing.
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I was speaking of antisemitism clearly. Even used the actual term.
And you should really know how connected the two are seeing the process that the Labour movement in the UK went through and what became of it today, but that's a discussion for another time.
 
Apocalypse said:
First of all the BDS isn't just about boycotting or simply calling for Israel to respect Palestinian rights (which is something that always happened), the BDS movement she was a member of and promoted is an antisemitic movement.
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Thats a lie. The boycott movement only covers Isreal, not Jewish businesses in other parts of the world so it is not antisemitic. This false charge of racism to stifle free speech is pure Isreali propaganda.
 
PoS said:
The boycott movement only covers Isreal, not Jewish businesses in other parts of the world so it is not antisemitic. This false charge of racism to stifle free speech is pure Isreali propaganda.
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That is a lie. The BDS is targeting Israel's Jewish identity as said above. It also singles out Israel in the world as a target, not any regime that they would claim violates human rights, because it's the only Jewish state.

Your claim of it being Israeli propaganda (while ironically you're dedicated to anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish propagnada) is increasingly shown as hysterical when noting the fact that they are considered antisemitic outside of Israel as well.

Macron says BDS is antisemitic

https://www.jpost.com/International...state-solution-says-BDS-is-antisemitic-490710

German state office says BDS is anti-Semitic

German state office says BDS is anti-Semitic - Israel National News
 
Apocalypse said:
You couldn't be further away from the truth.

First of all the BDS isn't just about boycotting or simply calling for Israel to respect Palestinian rights (which is something that always happened), the BDS movement she was a member of and promoted is an antisemitic movement. One of their major goals and declared agendas is to change Israel's character as Jewish. They target Israel's Jewish identity in a way that will end the current Israeli state and create another. That's not simply a protest against Israeli actions defending the lives of Israeli citizens, that is a "protest" agaisnt Israel's very existence.

Secondly where did you get the idea from that she is not being allowed to leave the country? She appealed against the entry denial and as such she awaits the decision of the Israeli court on her issue. She's already claimed she denounces the antisemitic BDS movement, regardless she will probably not be allowed to enter due to her actual actions.

This isn't Israel "hypocritically overreacting again". This is an entirely legitimate approach to the subject of the BDS and against its agenda carriers. Those who would find it unpleasent are those who wish to find it unpleasent to begin with. Comparisons with the USSR and Iran are beyond laughable.
Click to expand...

More hysteria and propaganda...

So if what you are saying is true then why is the Hebrew University going so far as to request her entry and represent her? There are no claims of ties to violence or agendas designed to damage the government of Israel, yet Israel deploys the propaganda move as if they are.

And of course Israel is overreacting, this is the behavior that damages Israel's image.

The Supreme Court of Israel just recently ruled it is permissible for Israel to relocate Bedouin village of Khan al-Ahmar, and it is bound to cause issues along the border. Israel has enough to contend with from legitimate threats and terrorism. Yet, they decide to add to their own problems pulling this stunt with Lara Alqasem, putting the Hebrew University in the mix.

Beyond stupid of Israel, they have far greater things to worry about.
 
OrphanSlug said:
More hysteria...

So if what you are saying is true then why is the Hebrew University going so far as to request her entry and represent her? There are no claims of ties to violence or agendas designed to damage the government of Israel, yet Israel deploys the propaganda move as if they are.

And of course Israel is overreacting, this is the behavior that damages Israel's image.

The Supreme Court of Israel just recently ruled it is permissible for Israel to relocate Bedouin village of Khan al-Ahmar, and it is bound to cause issues along the border. Israel has enough to contend with from legitimate threats and terrorism. Yet, they decide to add to their own problems pulling this stunt with Lara Alqasem, putting the Hebrew University in the mix.

Beyond stupid of Israel, they have far greater things to worry about.
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More falsehoods.

The Hebrew University (it's actually a specific person there) is irrelevant here. Their reasoning is their own and we'll need an entire thread discussing the Israeli left or far-left to explain their behavior. What is discussed here is whether or not it's a legitimate move. It is.

You were actually shown in one of the earlier posts here how the UK had taken the same approach, I hardly believe you would go and compare them to the USSR like you felt required to do in Israel's case - and you're far from being the only one on this planet that singles out Israel for specially made standards. Israel doesn't merely have every right to do so, it should actually do so, it's a good thing that they do so, and that is really up to Israeli citizens to decide. It's not anti-democratic and not bad in any sort of way to deny access to non-nationals who work against the country. It isn't a strecth to point that those who would strongly oppose such move are likely to be ones who share such an agenda to begin with.

You have made false claims here and once I called them out you didn't even bother referring to them or taking back your words.
You claimed Israel holds her in the country and doesn't let her leave - that is simply made up. So what you claim as "beyond stupid", well, is just not very credible when based on something that isn't reality.
 
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