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Israel tells US student to renounce views or leave the country

PoS said:
Well its the truth, the US doesnt detain people when they are linked to a boycott movement, nor do they force them to speak out against it.
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Israel doesn't detain her or force her to speak out against it, she chooses not to leave. Well done repeating the lie told by two previous posters here, you're officially part of the lying guild.
The UK does the same, which destroyed your attempted slander anyhow.
Your argument that "they are anti-Muslim so it's different" also collapsed. So yeah we're done.
 
Chagos said:
Without my wanting to go into the specifics of this case here, technically and by desired consequence they are.

The misunderstanding (and its fault) lie in the random manner in which the two terms are thrown about without the "throwers" bothering to think about what they mean.

Zionism is not only the political and philosophical ideology working towards the establishment of a Jewish state in Israel (that's what Zion signifies), it's also the move of maintaining and protecting that state after establishment. IOW it has not ceased to be, once Israel was founded.

So those unthinkingly (and often ignorantly) naming themselves anti-Zionist are in fact advocating that said state be abolished, often without actually realising themselves to be advocating that goal. But with or without awareness of that technicality, said stance is by default anti-semitic.

There are surely plenty of reasons to criticize Israeli policy and plenty of causes given, but I really wish people would pay more attention to the definitions they use in any such venture.
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Conflating criticism of the state of Israel by enclosing it within antisemitism risks rendering the word meaningless. They remain separate, despite Netanyahu's attempts to hide criticism of him behind the other "A"-word.

A BBC primer mirrors my understanding.

Anti-Semitism is "hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people" (OED).

Zionism refers to the movement to create a Jewish state in the Middle East, roughly corresponding to the historical land of Israel, and thus support for the modern state of Israel. Anti-Zionism opposes that.

But some say "Zionist" can be used as a coded attack on Jews, while others say the Israeli government and its supporters are deliberately confusing anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism to avoid criticism.
 
holbritter said:
In a statement to CNN, Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan said: "Israel, like every democracy, has the right to prevent the entry of foreign nationals, especially those working to harm the country. Therefore we work to prevent the entry of those who promote the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, which calls for Israel's destruction."

Nothing wrong with that, imo. They can run their country however they want.

How about teaching young adults that all countries are different and just because you are American, doesn't mean to get to do whatever you want in other countries. Nor do you have the same rights that you do here.
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Absolutely.

Why don't libtards understand this?
 
Apocalypse said:
Israel doesn't detain her or force her to speak out against it, she chooses not to leave. Well done repeating the lie told by two previous posters here, you're officially part of the lying guild.
The UK does the same, which destroyed your attempted slander anyhow.
Your argument that "they are anti-Muslim so it's different" also collapsed. So yeah we're done.
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LOL what a lie. Savage was banned from the UK (not the US) for advocating violence. Lara was suddenly imprisoned in Isreal for being linked to a boycott movement despite getting a visa. I guess boycott and advocating murder are the same thing in English to you, eh? Well, thats you.

I doubt we'll ever be done since you seem to think making the last reply somehow makes you win, but hey, thats you.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
The difference is that all she did was exercise her right to free speech, a fundamental human right, in her own country, then later was given a visa to enter just so the Israeli authorities could detain her and punish her for exercising that free speech. It's not surprising though really, Israelis don't respect the human rights of anyone but Israelis. This is petty punishment. Criticizing Israel does not mean they should be able to incarcerate you as revenge to silence dissenters.
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Did I read it wrong? It appeared they found out about her loyalties after granting the visa.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Conflating criticism of the state of Israel by enclosing it within antisemitism risks rendering the word meaningless. They remain separate, despite Netanyahu's attempts to hide criticism of him behind the other "A"-word.

A BBC primer mirrors my understanding.

Anti-Semitism is "hostility and prejudice directed against Jewish people" (OED).

Zionism refers to the movement to create a Jewish state in the Middle East, roughly corresponding to the historical land of Israel, and thus support for the modern state of Israel. Anti-Zionism opposes that.

But some say "Zionist" can be used as a coded attack on Jews, while others say the Israeli government and its supporters are deliberately confusing anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism to avoid criticism.
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Antizionism isn't criticism of Netanyahu so that's a first mistake there and one that you base your entire false notion on.
Antizionism, as it literally is said, is being against Zionism which is the continued existence of the state of Israel as a state and specifically as the Jewish nationstate.

There's no confusion, the two aren't seperatable. Opposing the existence of the only Jewish state in the world is antisemitism.
 
truthatallcost said:
Better yet, why do Americans who protested border detention here not care when an American is illegally detained abroad?

California

Border detention is a "violation of Jewish ethics, human rights and common decency."

https://www.jweekly.com/2018/06/28/...rder-jews-fan-out-to-protest-child-detention/

New York

"30 organizations, including congregations and liberal Jewish activist groups protested Trump's border policy.."

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundr...order-policy-at-ice-headquarters-in-new-york/

And my personal favorite-

Pennsylvania

"Jewish Group Compares Border Detention to Holocaust"

https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pr...ns-for-trump-detention-centers-rise-1.6196346


Brad Lander, a Democratic city councilman from Brooklyn said,
“We are required to show up when xenophobia and Islamophobia and racism and white supremacy and anti-Semitism become the policies of our country.”

But not when they ARE the policy in Israel.
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Illegally detained? You sure about that?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Did I read it wrong? It appeared they found out about her loyalties after granting the visa.
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You read it right and this is hardly the only mistake he made in the comments.

PoS said:
LOL what a lie. Savage was banned from the UK (not the US) for advocating violence. Lara was suddenly imprisoned in Isreal for being linked to a boycott movement despite getting a visa. I guess boycott and advocating murder are the same thing in English to you, eh? Well, thats you.

I doubt we'll ever be done since you seem to think making the last reply somehow makes you win, but hey, thats you.
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Lara was a member of an antisemitic movement calling for the destruction of the Jewish state as a Jewish state.

I only require a single reply to win. You should know it by now.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I think everyone is missing the point.

What we have here is Lara Alqasem, a US citizen traveling on a US passport to Israel, and was detained because of suspicion of ties to a boycott group. She was headed to Jerusalem's Hebrew University, who has also denounced her detention.

Israel, predictably, is suggesting that this boycott is all about "calls for Israel's destruction." But what we really have is a group who's sole purpose is to "end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law." That's it. A protest to encourage those who support Israel's dealings with Palestinians to change their minds about how they support Israel.

There is now international support for Israel and the Palestinians to change course and end decades of loss of life.

But hell no, we end up talking about "respecting Israel's rights to deny entry." But that is not what is happening either, Israel has already come out with a propaganda move and agreed to release Lara assuming she agrees to publicly denounce this boycott group. Think old school USSR or even Iran method of operation, holding someone captive and having them read a prepared statement under complete duress and coercion.

Ironically, what Israel claims this boycott group wants to do to them they actively do to the Palestinians anyway. Economic restrictions and coercion.

This is Israel hypocritically overreacting... again.
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People need to know a nations laws that might affect them:

Israel enacted a law last year banning any foreigner who "knowingly issues a public call for boycotting Israel" from entering the country. It also identified 20 activist groups from around the world whose members can be denied entry upon arrival.
​

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...-held-israel-bds-support-181011101658039.html

Always check with the state department before traveling abroad. This would have been included.
 
marke said:
Israel has had more success defending Israel from terror attacks than Americans have been in defending America from terror attacks. Israel will stop a terrorist sympathizer from even entering the country. Good for Israel.
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Absolutely. One way they do so is not allow a possible terrorist inside, no matter how slight that possibility is.
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
Israel showing they're really not any better than their fascist neighbors. This is right out of the Saudi Arabian playbook. Why do we support a country so heavily that doesn't share our values?
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About ten years ago my son and a group of his friends from school headed down to Seattle for a concert. One of them was a Lebanese citizen, born in Abu Dhabi because his father was working there. The border agents couldn't seem to get it that in a lot of Arab countries you get your citizenship from your father, not from the country you're born in. They were sure there was something fishy about it all. After a couple hours the whole groupwere sent back, because one was Lebanese.
Arbitrary detention and deportation absolutely is part of your values.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
It's not about denying entry. They imprisoned her for a week after they granted her a visa knowing full well they would imprison her when they get here. I know you're the kind of horrible person that believes in imprisoning people who criticize Israel but thats a violation of basic human rights.
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Did they not give her the opportunity to go back?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
She was detained against her will for a week, yes that's imprisonment. I know you're the master of justifying horrible deeds but this a blatant human right abuse. Imprisoning a foreign citizen for criticizing the government is disgusting.
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I don't find it disgusting when her protest amounts to harm. I find it refreshing that some countries value the livelihood of their people.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Absolutely. One way they do so is not allow a possible terrorist inside, no matter how slight that possibility is.
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Which doesn’t actually stop terrorism in any way, shape or form but let’s them tell the public “see? We are doing this and this and thus!”
 
Chagos said:
outlawed or not changes nothing in BDS having been declared anti-semitic.
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BDS is just doing a form of economic war, and she is a hostile.
 
holbritter said:
In a statement to CNN, Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan said: "Israel, like every democracy, has the right to prevent the entry of foreign nationals, especially those working to harm the country. Therefore we work to prevent the entry of those who promote the anti-Semitic BDS campaign, which calls for Israel's destruction."

Nothing wrong with that, imo. They can run their country however they want.

How about teaching young adults that all countries are different and just because you are American, doesn't mean to get to do whatever you want in other countries. Nor do you have the same rights that you do here.
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I agree but as ever like to see things being universally applied................... IE the Palestinians having the right to deny access to Israelis that mean harm to them. Such as the hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers and the thousands more security/army personnel needed to protect them from the locals they seek to displace

If you are consistent you will surely agree though I am pretty sure the Israeli you quoted won't see it that way
 
tosca1 said:
That's what open-borders entail - you lose your sovereignty! These idiots are trying to force countries to accept that foolish ideology.

It's about time they get a firm push back! If they get detained and get thrown in the dungeon - so be it.
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Don't you think they shouldn't have issued the visa rather than issue it but deny entry. Maybe they just wanted the money even if it did come from a BDS supporters pockets
 
Chagos said:
outlawed or not changes nothing in BDS having been declared anti-semitic.
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By some Europeans, yes. But BDS has plenty of members that are Jewish, so the issue is far from resolved.

Apocalypse said:
Israel doesn't detain her or force her to speak out against it, she chooses not to leave. Well done repeating the lie told by two previous posters here, you're officially part of the lying guild.
The UK does the same, which destroyed your attempted slander anyhow.
Your argument that "they are anti-Muslim so it's different" also collapsed. So yeah we're done.
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LOL keep lying. Did the UK detain Savage after he advocated murdering Muslims? Yes or no.

Is advocating murder the same as boycotting the products made by a country? Yes or no.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Did I read it wrong? It appeared they found out about her loyalties after granting the visa.
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Lord of Planar said:
I don't find it disgusting when her protest amounts to harm. I find it refreshing that some countries value the livelihood of their people.
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One of the best tools in the fascist tool box is labeling someone's verbal criticism of the government as "harm" then using that as an excuse to persecute them. Maybe we need to lock your ass up too, you're "harming" everyone else with your free speech.
 
Apocalypse said:
Indeed, there's nothing wrong with that as long as she's not a citizen of the Israeli state she has no given right to come here.
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But of course by contrast Israeli citizens can go anywhere they like................. occupied Palestine , Syria Golan , Occupied East Jerusalem
It can be understood why this would cause an uproar among Jew haters, but claims that this is against the values of a democracy are only made by those who don't understand what a democracy is.
(As expected from people who would call for the killing of Jews for being born Jewish - they cannot be in their mindset further away from what is considered to be the values of a democracy)
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First post in and you are already screaming " Jew haters " along with the sub charge of " people who would call for the killing of Jews for being born Jewish " .........whoever they are

Try not to derail everything in this subforum and try a little self restraint if you can
 
LowDown said:
No country should be required to admit a person who is dedicated to its destruction. The United States certainly does not permit that.
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Again same question to you. Should the Palestinians not be given the same opportunities that the Israelis and everyone else seems to enjoy............ the right to deny access to those that wish you harm ?
 
oneworld2 said:
But of course by contrast Israeli citizens can go anywhere they like................. occupied Palestine , Syria Golan , Occupied East Jerusalem


First post in and you are already screaming " Jew haters " along with the sub charge of " people who would call for the killing of Jews for being born Jewish " .........whoever they are

Try not to derail everything in this subforum and try a little self restraint if you can
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I'm fully intending on opposing any and all forms of antisemitism and calling it out.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Antizionism and antisemitism are not the same thing.
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Correct and that's why supporters of Israeli state policy want to make the two inseperable................... the imposition of a gag based on a racist slur. Glad they haven't fooled us all with this nonsense
 
RabidAlpaca said:
One of the best tools in the fascist tool box is labeling someone's verbal criticism of the government as "harm" then using that as an excuse to persecute them. Maybe we need to lock your ass up too, you're "harming" everyone else with your free speech.
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The best tool of the fascist as is the best tool of any extremist really is lying.
Why were you lying about her being imprisoned?
 
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