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Israel Is Not a Liberal Democracy

PoS

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https://nationalinterest.org/blog/paul-pillar/israel-not-liberal-democracy-28392

In this respect Israel resembles, for example, Iran. Iran officially calls itself an Islamic Republic—the kind of constitutional self-identification that is comparable to Israel’s new basic law about self-determination being something only for Jews. Iran does officially recognize some (though not all) minority religions, and it reserves seats in its legislature for Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians. But everyone realizes that the state religion of Shia Islam has preference over all others in many ways that are politically as well as religiously significant.



The most extreme pattern of religious preference at the expense of the rights of others is in Saudi Arabia. The kingdom considers the Koran to be its constitution. Open practice of any religion other than Islam is prohibited. Farther east there is Pakistan, which from its birth identified itself as the home and refuge for South Asian Muslims, much as Israel has identified itself as the home and refuge for diaspora Jews. Religious intolerance and impairment of the rights of non-Muslims, including through blasphemy laws, prevails today in Pakistan.



Even places in Israel’s neighborhood that do not have a single dominant religion exhibit religious preferences outweighing wider human and political rights. If you are Lebanese, for example, forget about ever seeking the country’s presidency unless you happen to be a Maronite Christian—despite that faith representing a declining proportion of the country’s population.



More generally, Israel has increasingly come to resemble the surrounding region in its social mores, especially with the rise in numbers and influence of ultra-Orthodox Jews and the political parties that represent them. Specifically with regard to segregation of the sexes and even, occasionally, religiously-motivated abusive treatment or women or girls, the resemblance is closest to scenes elsewhere in the region where fundamentalist Islam prevails.
Not much better than Iran or Saudi Arabia.
 
:popcorn2: (Not that I disagree, but this will be one hell of a debate.)
 

AIPAC does not approve sir. You bring much shame to your family in refusing to bow before the divine Providence of Israel.

I've long questioned the rabid, blind devotion to Israel. I get we are allies and we should support them in the region. However, just cause your allies with America doesn't mean you get to participate in human rights abuses and abuse your position in the region.

The empty-headed devotion to Israel that we see in America is not rational or logical in nature, but, purely faith-based. The thought process is supported by religious texts first, geo-political calculations second, and human rights considerations, can we even see them?
 
What's not a democracy about Israel? Does every citizen above the age of majority have a right to vote?

The article uses the excuse, "If you are Lebanese, for example, forget about ever seeking the country’s presidency." That was true in America for blacks and is still true for Jews and Muslims. Does that mean America isn't a democracy?
 
Lol. Whatever you say.

If you guys don’t want to actually understand Israel any better than the empty antisemetic talking points you are so enamoured with, that’s fine.

Israel will go on very well without you.


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Anti-semitic? How about anti-Arab?

Is Bernie Sanders anti-semitic for saying Palestinians deserve economic dignity and freedom from human rights abuses?
 
What's not a democracy about Israel? Does every citizen above the age of majority have a right to vote?

The article uses the excuse, "If you are Lebanese, for example, forget about ever seeking the country’s presidency." That was true in America for blacks and is still true for Jews and Muslims. Does that mean America isn't a democracy?

America is a democracy but, there are those in our government that would wish to bring Christian-Sharia Law to our land. That is not keeping with American principles. Should religious considerations be a part of a lawmaker's agenda?
 
What's not a democracy about Israel? Does every citizen above the age of majority have a right to vote?

The article uses the excuse, "If you are Lebanese, for example, forget about ever seeking the country’s presidency." That was true in America for blacks and is still true for Jews and Muslims. Does that mean America isn't a democracy?

What? You never heard of someone named Obama?
 
What? You never heard of someone named Obama?

That was true in America for blacks and is still true for Jews and Muslims. Does that mean America isn't a democracy?

While Israel is far from perfect. It is extremely different from Iran or Saudi Arabia... It is... in fact a democracy. It does in fact safely harbor populations of many different religions and ethnicities who are peaceful citizens. This cannot be said of the other countries.
 
Israel is a functioning liberal democracy despite its flaws, it makes sense that this fact and its prospering and socially advanced structure would upset those who can't bring themsleves to accept its existence.
I haven't seen anything in the laughable OP that could come close to changing that.
 
What? You never heard of someone named Obama?

Read my post again that you are quoting. I emphasized the operative portion:
MTAtech said:
What's not a democracy about Israel? Does every citizen above the age of majority have a right to vote?

The article uses the excuse, "If you are Lebanese, for example, forget about ever seeking the country’s presidency." That was true in America for blacks and is still true for Jews and Muslims. Does that mean America isn't a democracy?
 
didn't saudi arabia just allow women to drive cars less than a year ago?

Israel is not Iran, or saudi arabia lol, the notion is complete nonsense. Both Iran and KSA reject liberal influence from the western world. Israel, while it certainly has a culture and identity to its own, is very internationalist and goes above and beyond to provide medical resources, tech, and services to all. Just walk down the beach in Tel Aviv and tell me if resembles anything like a muslim nation. Talk to graduates from the Hebrew University, or Bar Ilan, and tell me if they talk like the same sectarians that are currently killing each other in syria because they can't tell if ISIS or Assad is a zionist puppet! Israel is not a perfect nation, but what nation is? They are clearly a country that deserves its success, while the other 22 arab countries well.....they're not exactly the brightest.
 
Lol. Whatever you say.

If you guys don’t want to actually understand Israel any better than the empty antisemetic talking points you are so enamoured with, that’s fine.

Israel will go on very well without you.


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To be fair, Israel is completely and totally dependent on support from the west, particularly weapons of war and political support from the US, so no, they wouldn't be fine by themselves.
 
Israel is a functioning liberal democracy despite its flaws, it makes sense that this fact and its prospering and socially advanced structure would upset those who can't bring themsleves to accept its existence.
I haven't seen anything in the laughable OP that could come close to changing that.

LOL a democracy means representation for everyone living there. 4.5 million Palestinians (more than the population of Isreal btw) lives under their occupation, are subjected to Isreali law and yet have no voting rights. Definitely not a democracy.
 
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Except Israel is a self declared ethno-religious state.

Israel?s ?Nation-State Bill? is a hostile display of religious ethno-nationalism | Freedom From Religion Foundation

Sorry, I think OP might have a point.

If I may, OlNate, when people decry the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Islamic Republic of Iran, is it because they are Ethno-Religious states? Is that the first thing that pops into your mind when you think "Thank God I'm not forced to live there...I could never live under an ethno-religious state!"? Or is it the fact that they are abysmal tyrannies where abuses against their own citizens are rampant and against which there is no appeal? When someone says Israel is no better than Iran or Saudi Arabia, they lack any sense of proportion and any sense of moral seriousness whatsoever.
 
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If I may, OlNate, when people decry the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the Islamic Republic of Iran, is it because they are Ethno-Religious states? Is that the first thing that pops into your mind when you think "Thank God I'm not forced to live there"? Or is it the fact that they are abysmal tyrannies where abuses against their own citizens are rampant and against which there is no appeal? When someone says Israel is no better than Iran or Saudi Arabia, they lack any moral seriousness whatsoever.

Of course you may. :)

Other than being at different places along the same axis, I'm not sure what the difference is. When you say "abuses against their own citizens are rampant and against which there is no appeal", I am not sure which of the three countries you are talking about.

The OP said "not much better", not "no different", so it does acknowledge it's better, if only not much.

I'm not exactly sure where I'd put all three countries in a hierarchy, but all three countries engage in massively problematic practices against their citizenry. Really tall, incredibly tall, and massively tall are all tall. It's not hatred to point that out, I don't think...and even if it were, it is not hatred of a country, but rather their governmental policy. :shrug: If I were you, I'd feel compelled to discuss the OP a little more before making allegations of hatred.
 
What's not a democracy about Israel? Does every citizen above the age of majority have a right to vote?

The article uses the excuse, "If you are Lebanese, for example, forget about ever seeking the country’s presidency." That was true in America for blacks and is still true for Jews and Muslims. Does that mean America isn't a democracy?

America is NOT a democracy. But that's not the point of the OP. The OP is trying to make a backhanded insult.
 
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Just more testimony on how religion...poisons everything.
 
America is NOT a democracy. But that's not the point of the OP. The OP is trying to make a backhanded insult.

Today’s #45 America is a Republic of the U$$A.
 
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