Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed [W: 143]

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

OrphanSlug said:

You and I probably have much agreement on this subject.

I receive so much pushback on this but I am convinced neither side has a real interest in peace, those that are in power and making decisions on both sides feel a moral right to continue on the course they are on and it happens to ensure conflict. They may say they are interested in peace, but we continue to see loss of life and a continual justification for it.

Regardless of how this plays out (continues as is, degrades to more conventional war, or otherwise) there are so many nations around Isreal that I doubt anything but continued conflict. And I put much of the blame on ideologies based on belief for why we continue to see tragic loss of life (like the OP example and so many others... every single year.)

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haha...yup, the quickest way to get your ass kicked in a Middle East debate is to dare suggest that both sides have blood on their hands...

Israel has been, and will continue to be, the greatest example of failed foreign policy in modern times. Too bad we didn't care as much about the ME in '48 as we do now...a good chunk of the blame, in my opinion, belongs to the UN.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

NO1 said:

But you did, you asked me if I can condem similar acts from the Israeli side, so I asked when was the last time it happend and you dodge the question.
But of course I condem any terror action.

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No I didn't ask that. I asked if you condemn the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians by Israelis. You continue to avoid answering.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Napoleon said:

And the Israelis can’t accept the idea of Arabs in Israel.

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Israel have over milion arab citizens. How many Jews there in Gaza or Ramallah ? You know why is that?

That’s why the Israeli government passed a law last Thursday declaring that only Jews have a right to self determination. It’s an apartheid State that abuses its neighbors and non-Jewish residents and citizens. What do you expect the response to be?

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From practical aspect this law which you are talking about has no real meaning.
Also, you should look the word apartheid. you are using it wrong.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Aristaeus said:

No I didn't ask that. I asked if you condemn the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians by Israelis. You continue to avoid answering.

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Well it seems you dont read my post, so I'll said it again - I condem any terror action, no matter who did it Israeli or Arab.
And of course you are dodging, because you know the Arabs using terror as way of life.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

NO1 said:

Well it seems you dont read my post, so I'll said it again - I condem any terror action, no matter who did it Israeli or Arab.
And of course you are dodging, because you know the Arabs using terror as way of life.

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That's not what I asked. Do you condemn the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians by Israelis regardless of whether it was defined as a terrorist act or not?

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Aristaeus said:

That's not what I asked. Do you condemn the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians by Israelis regardless of whether it was defined as a terrorist act or not?

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It seems you have problem with the definitions. Your question isn't clear.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

NO1 said:

It seems you have problem with the definitions. Your question isn't clear.

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Do you condemn the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians by Israelis? Not sure how I can make it any clearer. You can't seem to answer yes or no.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

OrphanSlug said:

This is going to be really terrible to say, but there are only two options left for Israel and the Palestinians.

Figure out a way to coexist, or one side completey destroy the other.

Anything else is just a continuation of what we have seen for decades now, and will continue to see generating story after story like the OP presents. But the real story is we will continue to see loss of life on both sides, and that has been the story as well.

You would think we would evolve, instead we look to justification for the next life lost here and there as if that will suddenly result in peace. It hasn’t yet, no real reason to assume it will tomorrow.

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I agree with all of this- plus America needs to pull out of supporting both sides. if they want to fight it out, let them. There are no good guys in that part of the world.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Aristaeus said:

Do you condemn the murder of innocent Palestinian civilians by Israelis? Not sure how I can make it any clearer. You can't seem to answer yes or no.

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I guess you are referring to last "demonstrations" in Gaza. You would say it's murder but saying that would be ridiculous. When civilians killed during a war, it's not murder, and when the soldiers get back home no one would tell them to go on trial. Especially when Hamas doing the best he can to maximize the death toll of civilians, by forcing them to damage the security fence.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

NO1 said:

I guess you are referring to last "demonstrations" in Gaza. You would say it's murder but saying that would be ridiculous. When civilians killed during a war, it's not murder, and when the soldiers get back home no one would tell them to go on trial. Especially when Hamas doing the best he can to maximize the death toll of civilians, by forcing them to damage the security fence.

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I wasn't referring to a specific incident. But it looks like you don't condemn the murder of innocent Palestinians by Israelis but you do condemn the murder of innocent Israelis by Palestinians. Thank you for answering at last.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Aristaeus said:

I wasn't referring to a specific incident. But it looks like you don't condemn the murder of innocent Palestinians by Israelis but you do condemn the murder of innocent Israelis by Palestinians. Thank you for answering at last.

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As I said, you have problem with the definitions. Soldier in a war won't stand on trial for murder, unless it was a war crime. This is why your question is oxymoron.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

NO1 said:

As I said, you have problem with the definitions. Soldier in a war won't stand on trial for murder, unless it was a war crime. This is why your question is oxymoron.

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Are you trying to claim Israeli civilians settlers never kill Palestinians? Anyway, soldiers don't have a licence to kill.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

bearpoker said:

If Hamas really spent billions on terror, they must be the worlds worst shoppers. I'm betting they squirreled most of away somewhere in Switzerland.

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Them 122MM Soviet surplus rockets are not cheap.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Aristaeus said:

Are you trying to claim Israeli civilians settlers never kill Palestinians? Anyway, soldiers don't have a licence to kill.

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Nope, but those incidents are once in a blue moon, unlike the Arab terror which is on a weekly basis.
And you still don't understand the problem in your question.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

I start with this premise...In Israel, on their congress or Knesset, has many Arab members...how many Jews are in the governing bodies of ANY Arab nation? Case closed. The Palestinians are the problem and their leadership need to be eliminated in order for there to be peace.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Spartacus FPV said:

Oh well I guess that makes this okay then!

What the hell is wrong with you?

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Given the number of excuses made every time an innocent Palestinean is killed by an Israeli(accusing them of being a terrorist/ declaring that its no big deal they got shot because Israelis "had to assume" they were hostile/ declaring that maybe they could have been a terrorist/etc) it's a little hard to turn on a dime and suddenly invoke the "innocent life being lost is bad" point.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Tigerace117 said:

Given the number of excuses made every time an innocent Palestinean is killed by an Israeli(accusing them of being a terrorist/ declaring that its no big deal they got shot because Israelis "had to assume" they were hostile/ declaring that maybe they could have been a terrorist/etc) it's a little hard to turn on a dime and suddenly invoke the "innocent life being lost is bad" point.

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The equation between the case where the military strikes a house in Gaza that stores munitions and/or terrorists in it and gets civilians there killed and a case of a murderer sneaking into a house and murdering family members inside requires an absence of morality.

The funny thing is how you never dare say the same about your own country, and you're not alone there. You would never dare say here (at least I haven't seen so in your two years of activity so correct me if I wrong) that the people who carried out 9/11 were comparable to the American soldiers who bombed some house in Afghanistan and killed civilians. You wouldn't dare making this comparison because A) You clearly don't believe that pretensious, intellectually dishonest bull**** and B) you clearly fear the backlash. I got tired of pointing out this hypocrisy of those promoting this inhuman comparison by now.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Apocalypse said:

The equation between the case where the military strikes a house in Gaza that stores munitions and/or terrorists in it and gets civilians there killed and a case of a murderer sneaking into a house and murdering family members inside requires an absence of morality.

The funny thing is how you never dare say the same about your own country, and you're not alone there. You would never dare say here (at least I haven't seen so in your two years of activity so correct me if I wrong) that the people who carried out 9/11 were comparable to the American soldiers who bombed some house in Afghanistan and killed civilians. You wouldn't dare making this comparison because A) You clearly don't believe that pretensious, intellectually dishonest bull**** and B) you clearly fear the backlash. I got tired of pointing out this hypocrisy of those promoting this inhuman comparison by now.

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The equation when Israeli troops shoot an Palestinean journalist or Palestinean medical personnel and when a Palestinian terrorist kills an Israeli civilian--- or when Israeli warplanes fire missiles which they know will kill unconnected bystanders---- is exactly the same. You can't keep making excuses for why killing Palestinean innocents is no big deal and then expect everyone to get upset when your own innocents are killed.

The funny thing is that Israelis always seem all too willing to use America as a scapegoat to try and defend their own practices. I hate to break it to you, but that's the entire point--- Israelis keep killing people who didn't have anything to do with terrorism . Your entire argument is nothing more than you trying to use Hezbollah and Hamas as an excuse for the IDF killing Palestinean civilians and then arguing that it's no big deal, only to get all outraged when your own innocents are killed.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Polar Bum said:

Very true words....however, decades of hatred and ongoing fighting will not be easy to overcome; each side is convinced of the superior morality of its cause and argument.

I honestly suspect that in the next few generations, one side will cease to exist.

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As George Carlin used to say, "Ancient hatred and modern weapons".

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Tigerace117 said:

The equation when Israeli troops shoot an Palestinean journalist or Palestinean medical personnel and when a Palestinian terrorist kills an Israeli civilian--- or when Israeli warplanes fire missiles which they know will kill unconnected bystanders---- is exactly the same. You can't keep making excuses for why killing Palestinean innocents is no big deal and then expect everyone to get upset when your own innocents are killed.

The funny thing is that Israelis always seem all too willing to use America as a scapegoat to try and defend their own practices. I hate to break it to you, but that's the entire point--- Israelis keep killing people who didn't have anything to do with terrorism . Your entire argument is nothing more than you trying to use Hezbollah and Hamas as an excuse for the IDF killing Palestinean civilians and then arguing that it's no big deal, only to get all outraged when your own innocents are killed.

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As I said you fear the backlash so you choose to be an hypocrite. You know this is an American dominated forum and making a similar claim to the one you made saying that 9/11 was the same as an American soldier bombing an house in Afghanistan causing civilinas to die will get you rightfully confronted by the majority of these boards as this absurdly inhuman statement in your previous post and this one should rightfully get you. And no you are not "everyone" as you claim to be, you represent a radical minority that believes one thing is fine for every country in the world (to defend their citizens) and another is not for Jews. You never compared the actions of any other country that caused civilian deaths while going after terrorists and defending itself to a terror attack, because of hypocrisy and because of how your world view is dependent on a single factor - whether the discussion revolves around the Jewish people or not.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Apocalypse said:

As I said you fear the backlash so you choose to be an hypocrite. You know this is an American dominated forum and making a similar claim to the one you made saying that 9/11 was the same as an American soldier bombing an house in Afghanistan causing civilinas to die will get you rightfully confronted by the majority of these boards as this absurdly inhuman statement in your previous post and this one should rightfully get you. And no you are not "everyone" as you claim to be, you represent a radical minority that believes one thing is fine for every country in the world (to defend their citizens) and another is not for Jews. You never compared the actions of any other country that caused civilian deaths while going after terrorists and defending itself to a terror attack, because of hypocrisy and because of how your world view is dependent on a single factor - whether the discussion revolves around the Jewish people or not.

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Yes, everyone can see how you tried to use Afghanistan as a justification for Israeli troops killing noncombatants. I hate to break it to you, but there already is "backlash" whenever American troops kill innocents--- and apparently unlike you, we don't simply declare that the victims "had it coming" because of "terrorism". Yes, your stances are very inhuman--- but then again, you don't seem to see Palestineans as humans in the first place, so I guess that's no surprise.

:lamo

Do you actually think people who think that innocents shouldn't be killed on the battlefield are a "radical minority"? Boy, are you in for a surprise if you ever go out into the real world.

Oh yeah, the "if you criticize Israel in any way, shape or form you are an antisemite!" argument. Yawn. You need a new line buddy.

In short, stop making excuses to justify every time a Palestinian innocent gets killed and maybe people will start caring more about your indignation.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

OlNate said:

haha...yup, the quickest way to get your ass kicked in a Middle East debate is to dare suggest that both sides have blood on their hands...

Israel has been, and will continue to be, the greatest example of failed foreign policy in modern times. Too bad we didn't care as much about the ME in '48 as we do now...a good chunk of the blame, in my opinion, belongs to the UN.

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Lol yeah. Cause when Israel isn’t involved everything in the ME is just rainbows and unicorns.

Delusional perception necessarily implies delusional policy prescriptions. And the anti-Israel crowd does delusional in spades.


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Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Your hypocrisy was clearly exposed for all to see here, finally. You refuse to say the words "An American soldier bombing a house in Afghanistan getting innocents killed is the same thing as 9/11" because we're not talking about Jews here.

But let me inform you of something my confused mate, you literally just made that horrible and repulsive statement. You said 9/11 was the same as an American soldier causing civilian deaths in Afghanistan, because you said an Israeli soldier targeting terrorists in Gaza causing civilians to die is the same as a terrorist murdering people. Since the only difference is in the nationality, it is a given fact that you made such statement. That's an inhuman statement right there. I'm merely putting it in the sense of America-Afghanistan for people to understand the hypocrisy of the "If you are Jewish you shouldn't defend yourself and just die, if you are anything else but Jewish it's clear you must defend yourself" camp that you represent here in perhaps the clearest sense of all your priors. Good.

Tigerace117 said:

Yes, everyone can see how you tried to use Afghanistan as a justification for Israeli troops killing noncombatants. I hate to break it to you, but there already is "backlash" whenever American troops kill innocents--- and apparently unlike you, we don't simply declare that the victims "had it coming" because of "terrorism". Yes, your stances are very inhuman--- but then again, you don't seem to see Palestineans as humans in the first place, so I guess that's no surprise.

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Strawman #1 as clearly no one says civilians should be killed. Lame.

Do you actually think people who think that innocents shouldn't be killed on the battlefield are a "radical minority"? Boy, are you in for a surprise if you ever go out into the real world.

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Strawman #2 as clearly the radical minority is a reference to people who draw insanely inhuman comparisons between 9/11 and American soldiers getting civilians killed by accident (see above why you made that comparison, I know you seem to think that saying "Jews" makes it different) , not people who think innocents shouldn't be killed. What a lame and senseless strawman argument. Seriously lame.

Oh yeah, the "if you criticize Israel in any way, shape or form you are an antisemite!" argument. Yawn. You need a new line buddy.

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Strawman #3, no one made an equation between any criticism of Israel and Jew hatred. Setting one standard for Jews and another for non-Jews as you clearly did above in your argument of hypocrisy is a different story. Again, a lame strawman but I guess you can't do better than that.

In short, stop making excuses to justify every time a Palestinian innocent gets killed and maybe people will start caring more about your indignation.

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Strawman #4 as no one considered your view to be that of the "people".
You can identify those promoting radical views here by how many times they try (and fail) to refer to their inhuman positions as those of the majority. Something I detected years ago.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

Apocalypse said:

Your hypocrisy was clearly exposed for all to see here, finally. You refuse to say the words "An American soldier bombing a house in Afghanistan getting innocents killed is the same thing as 9/11" because we're not talking about Jews here.

But let me inform you of something my confused mate, you literally just made that horrible and repulsive statement. You said 9/11 was the same as an American soldier causing civilian deaths in Afghanistan, because you said an Israeli soldier targeting terrorists in Gaza causing civilians to die is the same as a terrorist murdering people. Since the only difference is in the nationality, it is a given fact that you made such statement. That's an inhuman statement right there. I'm merely putting it in the sense of America-Afghanistan for people to understand the hypocrisy of the "If you are Jewish you shouldn't defend yourself and just die, if you are anything else but Jewish it's clear you must defend yourself" camp that you represent here in perhaps the clearest sense of all your priors. Good.



Strawman #1 as clearly no one says civilians should be killed. Lame.



Strawman #2 as clearly the radical minority is a reference to people who draw insanely inhuman comparisons between 9/11 and American soldiers getting civilians killed by accident (see above why you made that comparison, I know you seem to think that saying "Jews" makes it different) , not people who think innocents shouldn't be killed. What a lame and senseless strawman argument. Seriously lame.



Strawman #3, no one made an equation between any criticism of Israel and Jew hatred. Setting one standard for Jews and another for non-Jews as you clearly did above in your argument of hypocrisy is a different story. Again, a lame strawman but I guess you can't do better than that.



Strawman #4 as no one considered your view to be that of the "people".
You can identify those promoting radical views here by how many times they try (and fail) to refer to their inhuman positions as those of the majority. Something I detected years ago.

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Yes, it’s increasingly clear that you think any criticism of Israel at all is “hypocritical”. That attitude is the reason why blind support in Israel is rapidly disappearing in the United States. As usual, your persecution fantasies and your total inability to face the fact that killing Palestinian noncombatants is wrong is very telling. Yes, deliberately shooting Palestinian noncombatants is morally equivalent to Palestinian terrorists killing Israelis. Once again, America is condemned whenever we kill noncombatants......but we don’t spend all our time inventing reasons why killing noncombatants is no big deal, like you apparently do.

But shooting noncombatants doesn’t “defend” anyone—-and you trying to use that as a justification is absolutely pathetic. It is clear persecution fantasies are alive and well.

Except you routinely invent excuses justifying the killing of civilians, so clearly your argument is extremely lame.

Except again, there are no “accidents” involved.

The rest of your post is just you spewing your fury that anyone would care about Palestinean civilians being killed, making false equivalences with the US. But I suppose it’s not surprising that you decided Palestinians were subhuman and the deaths of civilians didn’t matter years ago.

Re: Slain terror victim was planning romantic dinner for his wife when stabbed

NO1 said:

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5318010,00.html


It's the sceond terrorist from the village of Kobar. This village educate young minds to become murders.

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The killings on both sides are a real tragedy in and of themselves and they also serve to maintain the hostility between the two sides .

I'm sure that some Arabs will urge youngsters to commit acts of terrorism against the citizens of the occupying nation but I also feel that it is the occupation and illegal settlement ,with all that that entails, that is the main motor for hostilities. Address that with a just resolution and start to build bridges , however difficult the task , and hope for a brighter future with less of these sorts of attacks.

The mayor of the village actually condemned the attack and was surprised that this " shy " youth had been the perpetrator. The IDF have since raided the village and looks like they plan to demolish the family home of the attacker.