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Israeli army kills Palestinian nurse in Gaza border protest: medics

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Rogue Valley said:
Israel Says Palestinian Medic’s Death in Gaza Was Unintentional | The New York Times

WXEs-hcmurvh0095060.jpg

Palestinians carrying medic Rouzan al-Najjar (20) to an aid station after she has been shot.



My understanding is that this young woman had just tended to a man that had been hit in the head with a tear-gas canister.

Wearing a white medic coat and white gloves, she began to walk towards another injured protester with her hands raised and was shot numerous times.

There is no excuse for such unprofessional action by a soldier. Whoever did this should be charged with whichever offense is more appropriate ... manslaughter or homicide.

Related: A Woman Dedicated to Saving Lives Loses Hers in Gaza Violence
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It's a war zone and in war zones incidents happen. The Pentagon just released info of over 500 civilians being killed unintentionally just like this case in the year 2017. Go ask for all those soldiers to be charged as well.

The only responsible party is the party that creates the war zone and intentionally places civilians in that war zone trying to get them killed, as many of them as possible, for PR purposes.
 
The cousin of Razan al-Najjar was shot dead by IDF snipers today. The Israelis claim that Ramzi al-Najjar and another male Palestinian were attempting to breach the fence when Ramzi was shot dead. The other Palestinian escaped. The Israelis claim that one of the two was armed with an axe or hatchet and showed a picture of an axe allegedly found at the scene.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/art...of-murdered-palestinian-medic-razan-al-najjar

I don't like citing the Morningstar as I am not sure of their biases but their description seemed more detailed than other sources so I went with it despite having reservations. Please be skeptical when reading it as it uses loaded language.

Evilroddy.
 
Apocalypse said:
Granting them false titles that are far from their hateful nature doesn't change that political, radical and hateful nature. A far-left activists group no different than the far-right groups we have in Europe in its extremism. (Or the far-left of course)
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Apocalypse:

B'Tselem is a non-violent NGO which has hurt no one by their reporting of the deaths of Palestinians and Israelis in the protracted and confusing conflict. The fact that you lump such a pacifist group in with violent alt-right and alt-left groups defies reason. Unlike Hamas and the state of Israel B'Tselem has neither injured nor killed anyone. They report information as best as they can collect, collate and analyse it. That is not hateful at all but lumping bean-counters in with violent militants and brutal militaries because you don't like the information which they are delivering to the world seems to be to be far more hateful than anything the folks at B'Tselem are doing.

If Israel is a transparent democracy with an open civil society as some claim, then it should be able to withstand the collecting and publishing of data like that which B'Tselem is disseminating. If however Israeli democracy and open civil society are buckling and crumbling under the weight of authoritarian demands by factions championing extreme right-wing religio-ethnic nationalism, rampant militarism and corrupt crony-corporatism, then I can see your point.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Apocalypse said:
Granting them false titles that are far from their hateful nature doesn't change that political, radical and hateful nature. A far-left activists group no different than the far-right groups we have in Europe in its extremism. (Or the far-left of course)
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Hateful nature lol by working to see an end to people being used as human shields and the like. Yep , really hateful that :roll:
 
Rogue Valley said:
Israel Says Palestinian Medic’s Death in Gaza Was Unintentional | The New York Times

WXEs-hcmurvh0095060.jpg

Palestinians carrying medic Rouzan al-Najjar (20) to an aid station after she has been shot.



My understanding is that this young woman had just tended to a man that had been hit in the head with a tear-gas canister.

Wearing a white medic coat and white gloves, she began to walk towards another injured protester with her hands raised and was shot numerous times.

There is no excuse for such unprofessional action by a soldier. Whoever did this should be charged with whichever offense is more appropriate ... manslaughter or homicide.

Related: A Woman Dedicated to Saving Lives Loses Hers in Gaza Violence
Click to expand...

Like " only a small number of bullets " is somehow none life threatening ?

These people are insane
 
Evilroddy said:
Apocalypse:

B'Tselem is a non-violent NGO which has hurt no one by their reporting of the deaths of Palestinians and Israelis in the protracted and confusing conflict. The fact that you lump such a pacifist group in with violent alt-right and alt-left groups defies reason. Unlike Hamas and the state of Israel B'Tselem has neither injured nor killed anyone. They report information as best as they can collect, collate and analyse it. That is not hateful at all but lumping bean-counters in with violent militants and brutal militaries because you don't like the information which they are delivering to the world seems to be to be far more hateful than anything the folks at B'Tselem are doing.

If Israel is a transparent democracy with an open civil society as some claim, then it should be able to withstand the collecting and publishing of data like that which B'Tselem is disseminating. If however Israeli democracy and open civil society are buckling and crumbling under the weight of authoritarian demands by factions championing extreme right-wing religio-ethnic nationalism, rampant militarism and corrupt crony-corporatism, then I can see your point.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Didn't say it hurt anyone (and it did but indirectly through it's promotion of a radical view), I did call them out for being a political group of radical activists which they are, no point denying that.
 
Apocalypse said:
Didn't say it hurt anyone (and it did but indirectly through it's promotion of a radical view), I did call them out for being a political group of radical activists which they are, no point denying that.
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Apocalypse:

You used the phrase, "their hateful nature" and described them as being on par with extremist right-wing and left-wing groups. Your choice of words and your chosen comparison certainly seems to be a clear attempt to demonise a pacifist organianisation which collects and diseminates data (hardly extremism) as a dangerous enemy of the state, by lumping them in with radical groups prone to violence and authoritarianism.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Apocalypse said:
It's a war zone and in war zones incidents happen. The Pentagon just released info of over 500 civilians being killed unintentionally just like this case in the year 2017. Go ask for all those soldiers to be charged as well.

The only responsible party is the party that creates the war zone and intentionally places civilians in that war zone trying to get them killed, as many of them as possible, for PR purposes.
Click to expand...

The person responsible for her death is the person that pulled the trigger and shot and killed her.
 
BUT DEY WERE HUMAN SHIELDS N SHIET

lol people can't accept that Israel is an illegal state
 
Apocalypse said:
It's a war zone and in war zones incidents happen. The Pentagon just released info of over 500 civilians being killed unintentionally just like this case in the year 2017. Go ask for all those soldiers to be charged as well.

The only responsible party is the party that creates the war zone and intentionally places civilians in that war zone trying to get them killed, as many of them as possible, for PR purposes.
Click to expand...

You don’t get to just say “incidents happen” when you’re sniping anyone you can put in the crosshairs from the top of a sand berm hundreds of meters away. There are two responsible parties here - the State which gave its soldiers a directive to murder unarmed people who came within 100 yards of the fence and those who pulled the trigger.
 
Serenity said:
The person responsible for her death is the person that pulled the trigger and shot and killed her.
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Only Hamas are responsible. The terrorists who pushed thousands of civilians to the border are responsible for every single death that results in this action, not someone who didn't intend on killing a civilian and was only there because he was required to defend his citizens against the attempted invasion by the masses.

As long as you don't place the blame on the terrorists you merely play into their hands. Is a soldier who didn't have any intention to cause civilian deaths responsible or are the ones who tried to get her killed? Seems like an obvious answer to me.
 
Napoleon said:
You don’t get to just say “incidents happen” when you’re sniping anyone you can put in the crosshairs from the top of a sand berm hundreds of meters away. There are two responsible parties here - the State which gave its soldiers a directive to murder unarmed people who came within 100 yards of the fence and those who pulled the trigger.
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There's no point discussing surreal and imaginary stories about orders to murder civilians, the fact the majority of deaths are vile Islamic terrorists says it all.
 
Evilroddy said:
Apocalypse:

You used the phrase, "their hateful nature" and described them as being on par with extremist right-wing and left-wing groups. Your choice of words and your chosen comparison certainly seems to be a clear attempt to demonise a pacifist organianisation which collects and diseminates data (hardly extremism) as a dangerous enemy of the state, by lumping them in with radical groups prone to violence and authoritarianism.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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They are a group motivated by hatred, just like every other extremist political group. They're motivated by radical political opinions. Suggesting otherwise is not facing reality and requires either a large amount of dishonesty or ignorance, in your suggestion there's both.
 
Apocalypse said:
They are a group motivated by hatred, just like every other extremist political group. They're motivated by radical political opinions. Suggesting otherwise is not facing reality and requires either a large amount of dishonesty or ignorance, in your suggestion there's both.
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Apocalypse:

Would you care to prove the statement you made above that B'Tselem is a group motivated by hatred and radical political ideas. I can hardly wait to hear how the book of Genesis, from which the group takes their name and their mission is a hateful and radical text. As to the hatred, what is hateful (or radical) about documenting the deaths , injuries and human rights violations caused by the State of Israel in the occupied territories and the all-but-occupied Gaza Strip? I get that you don't like what they're doing but it seems a long reach to tar the group with words like "hateful" and "radical".

B’Tselem was founded in 1989 and until recently devoted most of its efforts to documenting human rights violations that come under Israel’s purview as occupying power. This included publishing statistics, testimonies, video footage and reports concerning human rights violations and their implications, in order to improve the human rights situation of the occupied population – with the understanding that the occupation was to be a passing matter.

Yet after more than half a century of occupation, during which Israel’s policies in the Occupied Territories have created profound changes that indicate long-term intentions, it is clear that this reality cannot be viewed as temporary. Therefore, B’Tselem continues to document and publicize human rights violations while also exposing the injustice, violence and dispossession that lie at the very core of this regime of occupation, challenging its legitimacy in Israel and abroad and helping to expedite its end.
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From:

https://www.btselem.org/about_btselem

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Tigerace117 said:
Gee, I guess the wounded person should have had the courtesy to get shot out of the line of sight of the trigger happy IDF personnel(then again, "trigger happy" seems to be the common theme when it comes to Israeli troops).

Shooting medical personnel, especially civilian medical personnel is against the laws of war.
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Strawman.................the nurse had a duty to see to her own safety first. This is basic stuff taught to EMTs in the states. You're no good to your patient if you are maimed or dead. Was her heart in the right place? Sure, and it's a shame she was killed. I think the situation was chaotic and the Israeli troops made a mistake. I doubt they are trying to kill medical personnel. Hell they even provide food for Gaza. This is tragic, but almost unavoidable.
 
Evilroddy said:
Apocalypse:

Would you care to prove the statement you made above that B'Tselem is a group motivated by hatred and radical political ideas. I can hardly wait to hear how the book of Genesis, from which the group takes their name and their mission is a hateful and radical text. As to the hatred, what is hateful (or radical) about documenting the deaths , injuries and human rights violations caused by the State of Israel in the occupied territories and the all-but-occupied Gaza Strip? I get that you don't like what they're doing but it seems a long reach to tar the group with words like "hateful" and "radical".



From:

https://www.btselem.org/about_btselem

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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A far-left political group is first of all a political group. Whatever they call themselves is meaningless, they could have based their name on something from the Harry Potter books for all that matters, what kind of argument is that? The reference to how they define themselves is also meaningless. The use of the 'human rights activists' title is meant to grant some kind of moral advantage to their positions which are far from pro-human-rights. Their push against any attempt by Israel to defend itself shows they're interested in the violation of human rights when it comes to Jews, which suits well with the propaganda this organization tend to spread in Israel as well as outside it. A bunch of loony far-left activists, every country has this minority of crazies on the far-left and far-right.
 
American said:
the nurse had a duty to see to her own safety first. This is basic stuff taught to EMTs in the states. You're no good to your patient if you are maimed or dead.
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Oh so it's her fault. I've seen it all now. When paramedics in the West are trying to assist patients in hostile situations and they are injured, most reasonable people are not okay with that and don't consider it their own fault for merely trying to do their jobs.

Attacks on paramedics here are at record high numbers. Perhaps we should all just stop going to work and let people who think like you take care of yourself when you need assistance.

It's disgraceful to attempt to place blame on her.
 
Apocalypse said:
Only Hamas are responsible. The terrorists who pushed thousands of civilians to the border are responsible for every single death that results in this action, not someone who didn't intend on killing a civilian and was only there because he was required to defend his citizens against the attempted invasion by the masses.

As long as you don't place the blame on the terrorists you merely play into their hands. Is a soldier who didn't have any intention to cause civilian deaths responsible or are the ones who tried to get her killed? Seems like an obvious answer to me.
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No. You merely play into their hands by attempting to downplay her death and shrugging it off with the "**** happens and my side bears no responsibility" attitude.

How do you even begin to take any reasonable measures to try to make sure something similar is prevented going forward without accepting some responsibility? Mistakes can happen. Reasonable people understand that but to just shrug it off like you are doing is wrong.
 
Serenity said:
No. You merely play into their hands by attempting to downplay her death and shrugging it off with the "**** happens and my side bears no responsibility" attitude.
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No, what plays into their hands is faulting Israel exclusively and accusing them of being murderers as happens here frikkin daily.

How do you even begin to take any reasonable measures to try to make sure something similar is prevented going forward without accepting some responsibility? Mistakes can happen. Reasonable people understand that but to just shrug it off like you are doing is wrong.
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What “reasonable measures” can we really expect when Israel is nearly always immediately accused of murders, massacres and cover ups with not even a single bit of consideration given to the threats Israeli forces find themselves dealing with daily? Do you ever disagree with those characterizations of Israel’s actions because I see a lot of reason lacking in those accusations.
 
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X Factor said:
No, what plays into their hands is faulting Israel exclusively and accusing them of being murderers as happens here frikkin daily.
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Except I don't do that so either focus on what I have actually said or don't bother wasting my time with your nonsense.


X Factor said:
What “reasonable measures” can we really expect when Israel is nearly always immediately accused of murders, massacres and cover ups with not even a single bit of consideration given to the threats Israeli forces find themselves dealing with daily? Do you ever disagree with those characterizations of Israel’s actions because I see a lot of reason lacking in those accusations.
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Reasonable response/measures would be to investigate how/why this young girl was killed (while she was wearing a medical uniform, was unarmed and had her arms raised in a clear way) and discuss how something like this could perhaps be prevented going forward. That's reasonable, isn't it?
 
Serenity said:
Except I don't do that so either focus on what I have actually said or don't bother wasting my time with your nonsense.

Reasonable response/measures would be to investigate how/why this young girl was killed (while she was wearing a medical uniform, was unarmed and had her arms raised in a clear way) and discuss how something like this could perhaps be prevented going forward. That's reasonable, isn't it?
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Serenity:

I agree that an investigation into the circumstances of Ms. al-Najjar's death should be held and should be conducted with transparency. However, if this is not an accident, but is rather the result of a deliberate IDF/Israeli State policy of targeting medical aid workers, (given the numbers injured and killed to date that is something which the IDF snipers have been doing quite a lot of since March 30th), then a transparent and thorough inquiry may be the last thing that the Israeli Government wants to see happen. I think back to the IDF spokesperson tweet (which was quickly taken down) which boasted that every IDF sniper shot was carefully scrutinised and vetted beforehand, every bullet accounted for and no mistakes were being made. If that is true and snipers are being ordered to take every shot they are taking and each target is being vetted by spotters and commanders, then the idea that these shootings of medical workers as being unfortunate accidents may not be a valid assumption.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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