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Israeli Supreme Court Rejects Request to Prevent Soldiers from Firing on Unarmed Civilians[W:95]

truthatallcost said:
And as I've already stated, the position of the bullet wound (chest, center mass) indicates that she was probably shot deliberately by a soldier who aimed his rifle directly at her. Given that she was an unarmed civilian & a nurse, this shooting was an execution since she clearly posed no threat to IDF.
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And you're the one conducting the investigation? You're the one exposed to the details? You were called out for talking nonsense and that's exactly what you've done.

Yes, those 500 casualties came about from US military activity in 4 different countries. We're in 2 of those countries to make benefits most glorious nations of Y'isreal.
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Only according to nonsensical conspiracy theories bollocks. Point is that the US killed over 500 unarmed civilians just like the one this thread discussed in the year 2017. It happens in war zones.

The IDF are hailed as being highly trained and capable soldiers....until they murder an innocent medic wearing a white lab coat- then the IDF are given credit for not knowing how to shoot a rifle properly without hitting civilians. Oh well, these things happen! Never mind the fact that Israel kills Palestinians at a rate of 100-1 sometimes, which means those few Palestinian who do try to attack Israelis usually aren't successful anyway, and Israel gets to murder more Arab unarmed civilians while blaming those relatively few Palestinian attackers for making them do it! I've seen the videos of Israelis dancing and celebrating after some random Arab person was killed by IDF. I'm not the average naive American.
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'Murder' is your addition. These are civilian casualties who are killed not on purpose and because the terrorists place them in such situations and use them as human shields, the fault for their deaths is solely on the terrorists' hands as always and any other suggestion is merely aiding the ones responsible for their killing and playing into their hands and nothing more.
 
truthatallcost said:
That's incorrect. The figures I presented are for 2017, while the Knives Intifada is an event that lasted from 2015 until mid 2016.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015-2016_wave_of_violence_in_Israeli-Palestinian_conflict
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The knives intifada was never really over, only yesterday a Palestinian tried to ram his car into soldiers, the attacks only became less frequent.


That's what Israel's defense ministry says. It's an absurd assertion, only believed by die hard pro-Israel supporters. The pro-Israel bunch have probably already declared Razan Al Najar to be a terrorist, when in actuality she was only a nurse and a young woman trying to stem Israel's body count of Palestinians.
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No thats what I say as a combatant soldier during the 2nd intifada and "Defensive Shield" and as a reservist who've been serving in the west bank including one time during the Nakba Day.

Most of the punishments are not what the rest of the world would consider appropriate for the crime of murder, you know that. IDF members who've killed Palestinians in cold blood often serve a few months in jail, and are released. One IDF soldier was released early so he could attend a wedding. These prison sentences are a joke. His crime involved executing an injured Palestinian with a point blank head shot.

Other IDF members have ran over handicapped people in wheelchairs, or driven bulldozers over settlement protestors. They received no punishment at all.
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The prison sentences are not a joke, the specific case you refer to is of a soldier who was released a day earlier due to an obvious manipulation of his family but again, one day earlier.
 
truthatallcost said:
You're wrong. I'm using the term 'unarmed civilian' in the correct manner, which the overwhelming majority of human beings on planet earth would agree with. A nurse wearing a white lab coat, holding her hands in the air in a manner universally known as a surrender posture, is only viewed as an enemy combatant to the most unreasonable of people.




Early indications suggest that she was directly targeted by IDF, as the bullet wound would suggest. She was killed by a rifle cartridge that hit her body in the center mass area, which is where law enforcement officers and military personnel are trained to shoot a person when they're trying to kill them.

Now I know the usual excuses will be made for this death in an attempt to lay all of the blame on the young woman who was killed, or on Palestinians in general. It's the same old clap trap argument that doesn't hold water.

There are American soldiers in prison right now for shooting people in Afghanistan who they weren't legally allowed to shoot, and most of those soldiers crimes aren't as shameful as killing a young nurse whose only intent was to lessen the death toll. Yet the pro-Israel crowd will somehow turn the IDF killer into a hero, the young nurse into a villain, and wonder why Americans don't want to fight Israels wars for them anymore.
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This young woman was not a nurse and was not wearing any uniform. You have no idea what her intent was, you are just making one up. You have no idea whether or not she 'had her hands in the air', you simply choose to believe so. You are nothing more than a willing dupe, determined to take on trust each and every lie that Hamas feeds you.

You are free to long for for the destruction of Israel. Why not just say so? For my part I hope that Israel will survive the attacks that the Arabs have been conducting, with the intention of destroying the state, for the last 70 years.
 
Apocalypse said:
Which goes to show that you're merely using that word the way you see fit.
This is an incident with a civilian dying from IDF fire, not an execution which would have been the case if for start she was actually targeted and not the terrorists who shot at the IDF position and threw a grenade at it that the soldiers shot back at.
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It is not certain that this young women died from rifle fire. There are witnesses who say that she was in fact killed by a blow to the head from a rock hurled by a Palestinian slingshot. Hamas is not releasing any autopsy report.

We will never know the truth of the matter. But we are certainly under no obligation to creduously accept the Hamas version.
 
ido_ said:
heres just one example of what Israeli soldiers are facing in the WB:

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There's a really simple solution to that problem

Stop illegally occupying and illegally settling the West Bank and stay in your own territory.
 
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Sweden said:
It is not certain that this young women died from rifle fire. There are witnesses who say that she was in fact killed by a blow to the head from a rock hurled by a Palestinian slingshot.
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Have you got a source for the above claim ?
 
Apocalypse said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel
Only two days ago there were 72 acts of Palestinian terror against Israeli citizens.
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So you are counting each and every rocket fired from Gaza as a separate act of terrorism , okay I can go with that

So if the criteria is each projectile fired at civilians is an act of terror let's see how many terrorist attacks Israel has carried out against the Palestinians.

We can argue about which source to believe , so I will pick one at random

Al Jazeera claims that around 13,000 Palestinians have been wounded by Israeli bullets and around 120 Palestinians killed

By my reckoning that's at least 13,120 terrorist attacks committed by Israel against the Palestinians since March 30 this year

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/gaza-protest-latest-updates-180406092506561.html
 
oneworld2 said:
So you are counting each and every rocket fired from Gaza as a separate act of terrorism , okay I can go with that

So if the criteria is each projectile fired at civilians is an act of terror let's see how many terrorist attacks Israel has carried out against the Palestinians.

We can argue about which source to believe , so I will pick one at random

Al Jazeera claims that around 13,000 Palestinians have been wounded by Israeli bullets and around 120 Palestinians killed

By my reckoning that's at least 13,120 terrorist attacks committed by Israel against the Palestinians since March 30 this year

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/gaza-protest-latest-updates-180406092506561.html
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People get hurt when defensive forces are required to open fire when thousands of people attempt to remove the fence and cross the border from an hostile territory controlled by terrorists while the terrorists themselves guide them and attempt to carry out countless attacks during the invasion attempt. That's terrorism by your standard which is meaningless.
 
Apocalypse said:
People get hurt when defensive forces are required to open fire when thousands of people attempt to remove the fence and cross the border from an hostile territory controlled by terrorists while the terrorists themselves guide them and attempt to carry out countless attacks during the invasion attempt. That's terrorism by your standard which is meaningless.
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Your own governments/leaderships are terrorists , only their terrorism kills vastly more people . I'm sure many Palestinians see you all as terrorists . Lebenese , Syrians , Egyptians most likely see Israel as a rogue terrorist state and with good reason.

The hypocrisy that Israelis are showing over the sanctity of borders is breathtaking . All's we hear is Israelis crying about how wrong it is for " hostiles " to encroach upon the border fences and how sovereign nations have a right to defend themselves and their borders whilst at the same time Israel is systematically violating the borders and sovereign territories of neighbouring states/peoples and being supported by the vast majority of the Israeli population when doing so

Breathtaking hypocrisy that is characteristic of mainstream Israeli opinion
 
oneworld2 said:
Your own governments/leaderships are terrorists , only their terrorism kills vastly more people . I'm sure many Palestinians see you all as terrorists . Lebenese , Syrians , Egyptians most likely see Israel as a rogue terrorist state and with good reason.

The hypocrisy that Israelis are showing over the sanctity of borders is breathtaking . All's we hear is Israelis crying about how wrong it is for " hostiles " to encroach upon the border fences and how sovereign nations have a right to defend themselves and their borders whilst at the same time Israel is systematically violating the borders and sovereign territories of neighbouring states/peoples and being supported by the vast majority of the Israeli population when doing so

Breathtaking hypocrisy that is characteristic of mainstream Israeli opinion
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I hardly care about what those who don't recognize actual acts of terror for what they are think about defensive actions against those acts of terror. The truth remains that Israel doesn't target civilians and only defends its citizens from terrorists. Israel has the right, by international law too by the way, to defend itself and that's including within foreign territories. If someone in Syria wants to attack Israel, no one has the right to deny it from defending itself against that someone.
 
Apocalypse said:
I hardly care about what those who don't recognize actual acts of terror for what they are think about defensive actions against those acts of terror. The truth remains that Israel doesn't target civilians and only defends its citizens from terrorists. Israel has the right, by international law too by the way, to defend itself and that's including within foreign territories. If someone in Syria wants to attack Israel, no one has the right to deny it from defending itself against that someone.
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Nope , what they do is terrorism and what you do is not. It's the same mantra the world over. The reality is something else

And people that are attacked by Israel also have that right to respond but when they do you cry " terrorism " , it's a weak and utterly hypocritical position
 
oneworld2 said:
Nope , what they do is terrorism and what you do is not. It's the same mantra the world over. The reality is something else

And people that are attacked by Israel also have that right to respond but when they do you cry " terrorism " , it's a weak and utterly hypocritical position
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Israel attacks because it is attacked and threatened by those who choose violence as their way, no one cries "terrorism", people are merely facing reality for what it is and calling out the barbaric organizations for what they are. If this goes against your logic that sees any attempt to defend an Israeli life as terrorism and any attempt to take it as 'resisting' that's fine with me.
 
oneworld2 said:
There's a really simple solution to that problem

Stop illegally occupying and illegally settling the West Bank and stay in your own territory.
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no, the simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to murder Jews, they've been doing it for about a 100 years now, rest assured that a day after the palestinians will say "we will fight no more" there will be peace between the two nations
 
ido_ said:
no, the simple solution is for Palestinians to stop trying to murder Jews, they've been doing it for about a 100 years now, rest assured that a day after the palestinians will say "we will fight no more" there will be peace between the two nations
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They have been doing it ever since European Jews started immigrating into their lands with an ideology that had at its core the desire/aim of dispossessing and displacing them. You are blaming the victims.

I will tell you one thing. If your country doesn't change its disgusting treatment of the Palestinians and stop being the regional bully boy you will be doomed to disaster. When is anyone's guess . But be sure it will come. That pariah status you have earned is only going to get worse and when it becomes too much for your US backers to bare you will drop like a stone
 
Apocalypse said:
Israel attacks because it is attacked and threatened by those who choose violence as their way, no one cries "terrorism", people are merely facing reality for what it is and calling out the barbaric organizations for what they are. If this goes against your logic that sees any attempt to defend an Israeli life as terrorism and any attempt to take it as 'resisting' that's fine with me.
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Nope , you are attacked because you occupy. You repress , you brutalize , you slaughter , you terrorize.................... it's just as simple as that. That's why the state is considered a rogue and dangerous state in all of the polls conducted on such things. You are down there with North Korea and Pakistan for a reason
 
oneworld2 said:
Nope , you are attacked because you occupy. You repress , you brutalize , you slaughter , you terrorize.................... it's just as simple as that. That's why the state is considered a rogue and dangerous state in all of the polls conducted on such things. You are down there with North Korea and Pakistan for a reason
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It's "simple as that" in the world where down is up and up is down perhaps. Hardly worth discussing reality when it's being constantly denied for the sake of your propaganda. Your comparison to North Korea and Pakistan is weird as I believe like Iran, Syria, the Palestinians and others these are nations you will support. Israel will continue to defend itself anyhow.
 
oneworld2 said:
They have been doing it ever since European Jews started immigrating into their lands with an ideology that had at its core the desire/aim of dispossessing and displacing them. You are blaming the victims.
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good, so you agree Palestinians are not murdering Jews because we occupy the west bank, they do so because we "occupy" Israel.

I will tell you one thing. If your country doesn't change its disgusting treatment of the Palestinians and stop being the regional bully boy you will be doomed to disaster. When is anyone's guess . But be sure it will come. That pariah status you have earned is only going to get worse and when it becomes too much for your US backers to bare you will drop like a stone
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I will tell you one thing as well (I already said it), the day Palestinians will relinquish their desire to destroy Israel and renounce violence, there will be peace.
The only thing that fuels Israeli right wing is the Palestinians and their self destructive ways



Sent from my ONEPLUS A3010 using Tapatalk
 
Apocalypse said:
It's "simple as that" in the world where down is up and up is down perhaps. Hardly worth discussing reality when it's being constantly denied for the sake of your propaganda. Your comparison to North Korea and Pakistan is weird as I believe like Iran, Syria, the Palestinians and others these are nations you will support. Israel will continue to defend itself anyhow.
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Nope, that's the reality but you don't want to accept it.

In polls conducted Israel ranks way down there with the countries I cited. There's a reason for that and you cannot just cry antisemitism and dismiss it
 
ido_ said:
good, so you agree Palestinians are not murdering Jews because we occupy the west bank, they do so because we "occupy" Israel.
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They weren't a hundred years ago but they are now. As the situation has changed so too has the reasoning behind the violence from both sides




I will tell you one thing as well (I already said it), the day Palestinians will relinquish their desire to destroy Israel and renounce violence, there will be peace.
The only thing that fuels Israeli right wing is the Palestinians and their self destructive ways
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People can rightly say the same thing about Jews. When they renounce violence and expansion themselves and allow the Palestinians the rights they are denying them in a true autonomy there will be more peaceful coexistence imo
 
oneworld2 said:
Nope, that's the reality but you don't want to accept it.

In polls conducted Israel ranks way down there with the countries I cited. There's a reason for that and you cannot just cry antisemitism and dismiss it
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A great part of the world's population come from the Arab world, so that makes sense. Of course antisemitism can be called out.
 
Apocalypse said:
A great part of the world's population come from the Arab world, so that makes sense. Of course antisemitism can be called out.
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The Arab animosity towards Israel is fully understandable given the history and massive damage the state has brought to the region and the people living there.

To dismiss it as antisemitism , that tired , overused and , sadly , rather meaningless term may resonate with those unfamiliar with the history and/or Islamophobes but it doesn't really stand up imo

The first nation Americans didn't end up hating those who racked up on their shores bent on dispossessing and displacing them because they were white or Christian. They ended up hating them because of what was visited on them as a result.

The ongoing occupation from without of Gaza and the collective punishment of the tightened blockade are just more examples of the Israeli state sticking it to the Arabs in the region. The decision that it's okay to shoot dead unarmed protesters that pose no imminent threat to those shooting them is another one to add to the list
 
oneworld2 said:
So you are counting each and every rocket fired from Gaza as a separate act of terrorism , okay I can go with that

So if the criteria is each projectile fired at civilians is an act of terror let's see how many terrorist attacks Israel has carried out against the Palestinians.

We can argue about which source to believe , so I will pick one at random

Al Jazeera claims that around 13,000 Palestinians have been wounded by Israeli bullets and around 120 Palestinians killed

By my reckoning that's at least 13,120 terrorist attacks committed by Israel against the Palestinians since March 30 this year

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/gaza-protest-latest-updates-180406092506561.html
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Shall I post again the thousands of terrorist attacks launched from Gaza against the civilians of Israel by way of bomb vests., mortars, rockets, knife attacks, etc.?

Then again why bother? We don't need to see the windmill effect as you handwave those are ay.
 
oneworld2 said:
The Arab animosity towards Israel is fully understandable given the history and massive damage the state has brought to the region and the people living there.

To dismiss it as antisemitism , that tired , overused and , sadly , rather meaningless term may resonate with those unfamiliar with the history and/or Islamophobes but it doesn't really stand up imo

The first nation Americans didn't end up hating those who racked up on their shores bent on dispossessing and displacing them because they were white or Christian. They ended up hating them because of what was visited on them as a result.

The ongoing occupation from without of Gaza and the collective punishment of the tightened blockade are just more examples of the Israeli state sticking it to the Arabs in the region. The decision that it's okay to shoot dead unarmed protesters that pose no imminent threat to those shooting them is another one to add to the list
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"The massive damage" like having one of the only stable democratic governments in the area. One that is neither ruled by a despot, dictator nor theocratic rule.
 
Please help me understand the whole question, I am a Christian, and my early teaching was about the Divine rights of the Jewish peoples. If there is a point to be made otherwise, I am interested in hearing it. I am somewhat knowledgeable of the first world war and forward.
Why are the Jewish people not entitled to a homeland?
Really interested, You see want I think to date. Any convincing discussion welcome.
Thanks to all
CP
 
oneworld2 said:
The Arab animosity towards Israel is fully understandable given the history and massive damage the state has brought to the region and the people living there.
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It isn't understandable and is inexcusable. The conflicts emerging because of their hatred were all avoidable if they came to accept a Jewish state alongside their many nations. I can see why you'd see that hatred towards Israel as understandable though.

To dismiss it as antisemitism , that tired , overused and , sadly , rather meaningless term may resonate with those unfamiliar with the history and/or Islamophobes but it doesn't really stand up imo
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It is antisemitism and antisemitism must be called out. The hatred for Jews in the Arab world has been the most profound in the world for a while now. I can see why you would want to downplay antisemitism and seek to legitimize it, though.

The ongoing occupation from without of Gaza and the collective punishment of the tightened blockade are just more examples of the Israeli state sticking it to the Arabs in the region. The decision that it's okay to shoot dead unarmed protesters that pose no imminent threat to those shooting them is another one to add to the list
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Examples of acts of self-defense. I can see why you would want to deny Israel the right to defend itself, though.
 
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