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Thread: A member of parliament from UK is apologizing, after criticizing Israel over the clashes in Gaza

  1. #111
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    Re: A member of parliament from UK is apologizing, after criticizing Israel over the clashes in Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    OK.

    So who said this and when?

    "We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals."

    Or this

    "The main theme behind the spontaneous celebrations we are witnessing today is our community's desire to seek peace and its determination to achieve fruitful cooperation with the Arabs..."
    This isn't The Chase.

    I could quote you many Jewish leaders of the time referred to above and prior to it outlining that acceptance of the partition was something of a stepping stone to proposed/intended territorial expansion. So what would follow would be one quote contradicting another. What's the point of that ?

    So............... you might want to back up part of the claim you made in the original posts I replied to

    What " huge concessions " have Israeli leaders made that you are referring to ?
    Last edited by oneworld2; 05-24-18 at 01:41 PM.
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

  2. #112
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    Re: A member of parliament from UK is apologizing, after criticizing Israel over the clashes in Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    This isn't The Chase.

    I could quote you many Jewish leaders of the time referred to above and prior to it outlining that acceptance of the partition was something of a stepping stone to proposed/intended territorial expansion. So what would follow would be one quote contradicting another. What's the point of that ?

    So............... you might want to back up part of the claim you made in the original posts I replied to

    What " huge concessions " have Israeli leaders made that you are referring to ?
    Is there a point in answering if any offers I show you are negated by claims from "many Jewish leaders of the time referred to above and prior to it outlining that acceptance of the partition was something of a stepping stone to proposed/intended territorial expansion?"

    Even now, while many Jewish soldiers and people fight to protect their country, other ultra orthodox Jews like the Neutral Karta argue that Israel should not exist as the Jewish messiah has not created it as predicted in their version of the religion. In that light, should I answer any question about Israel if the Neutral Karta would be used to contradict what I say?
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    Really? Wanna know how they wash their babies in Africa? They spray them with breast milk and let the goats lick them clean.

  3. #113
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    Re: A member of parliament from UK is apologizing, after criticizing Israel over the clashes in Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    Is there a point in answering if any offers I show you are negated by claims from "many Jewish leaders of the time referred to above and prior to it outlining that acceptance of the partition was something of a stepping stone to proposed/intended territorial expansion?"

    Even now, while many Jewish soldiers and people fight to protect their country, other ultra orthodox Jews like the Neutral Karta argue that Israel should not exist as the Jewish messiah has not created it as predicted in their version of the religion. In that light, should I answer any question about Israel if the Neutral Karta would be used to contradict what I say?
    Each to their own but I don't go in for religious mumbo jumbo myself

    Again, what " huge concessions " have the Israeli leadership given to the Palestinians as per your claims ?
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

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    Re: A member of parliament from UK is apologizing, after criticizing Israel over the clashes in Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    Each to their own but I don't go in for religious mumbo jumbo myself

    Again, what " huge concessions " have the Israeli leadership given to the Palestinians as per your claims ?
    I looked back and can't find myself saying "huge concessions." I see YOU attribute those words to me several times?

    I may be mistaken but what I remember saying what about Olmert's "huge offer" in 2008 which Abbas turned down. It could be said he was outgoing and made an empty offer but Palestinian rejectionism wasn't about to suddenly be reversed was it even if Olmert stayed in power. Before him, Arafat simply said no to every offer made to him at Camp David.

    Going further back, the partition plan which Abbas now states the Palestinians should have accepted. To me, a state of your own is generous - the only reason to not see it that way is to sit in the camp that wishes to see Israel wiped off the map.
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiechan View Post
    Really? Wanna know how they wash their babies in Africa? They spray them with breast milk and let the goats lick them clean.

  5. #115
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    Re: A member of parliament from UK is apologizing, after criticizing Israel over the clashes in Gaz

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos View Post
    I looked back and can't find myself saying "huge concessions." I see YOU attribute those words to me several times?
    I'm sorry , I stand corrected it wasn't you that made the huge concessions claim it was RetiredUSnavy with whom I am having more or less the same debate in another thread. Your's is definitely the " huge offer " by Olmert. Please accept my apologies


    I may be mistaken but what I remember saying what about Olmert's "huge offer" in 2008 which Abbas turned down. It could be said he was outgoing and made an empty offer but Palestinian rejectionism wasn't about to suddenly be reversed was it even if Olmert stayed in power. Before him, Arafat simply said no to every offer made to him at Camp David.
    From what I recall Olmert showed him a map of what was on offer but never actually gave him a copy unless he agreed to signing it there and then( weird in itself imo ) I recall also that Abbas tried to remember what he had been shown and put it down on a scrap of paper.

    As you say Olmert was on his way out and probably off to court at that time

    Given the circumstances outlined in the above are you claiming that this was a believable/serious offer ? i would have thought if it had been Abbas wouldn't have been forced to scribble down what he remembered of " the map ", don't you think ?

    As for Arafats decision , if you had stayed awake during the Chomsky vid I linked you might also see that what was on offer fell way short of a viable Palestinian state with self determination for the Palestinians


    Going further back, the partition plan which Abbas now states the Palestinians should have accepted. To me, a state of your own is generous - the only reason to not see it that way is to sit in the camp that wishes to see Israel wiped off the map.
    Let's give some context here

    The partition gave around 55% of the territory to 33% of the population of whom the vast majority were recent European immigrants and 45% to 66% of the population. I wonder how many here would accept foreign powers/colonial powers dividing their territory up in such a way.

    The partition was a proposal only without the legal clout usually given by endorsement via the UNSC and the Arabs didn't believe it could be forced on them. Naive ? Yep , but part of the reason for the decision

    The Zionists accepted partition as a stepping stone , if you are to believe what their leaders stated , prior to partition. A minority of Jews also rejected partition

    If they had a crystal ball I'm sure they would have accepted the 45% offered in 1947 but hindsight is of little use now

    Last word for this post concerning rejectionism..................... they have been voting on a two state solution in the UN for around 4 decades. There are two guaranteed no votes , Israel and the US. Could that not be illustrative of Israeli rejectionism spanning many decades ?
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

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