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Palestinian history

OlNate said:
I can't speak for the OP, nor can I speak for Mal, but this thread raises my eyebrows, because of a trend in what I would call Zionist activism that attempts to erase the history of Palestinians entirely.

Palestinian history - is there such a thing? - Israel National News

The Truth about the Palestinian People

How Did the Land of Israel Become "Palestine"?

https://israelmybeloved.com/was-there-ever-a-state-of-palestine/

This is essentially a propaganda strategy used to convince academics, and serves as a justification for the treatment of Palestinians under Zionist control. It's based in some fact, though not the smoking gun they'd hope it would be, and is nothing more than a way to legitimize the way Israel has conducted itself.

Given the fact that so much information is available online regarding the history of the Palestinian people, one is left to assume that this is a gotcha thread, where anything presented will be condescended, which could raise the ire or anyone who doesn't buy the whole "We Zionists aren't to blame, it's the big bad Muslims".

Sadly there is a market for that kind of messaging in America and around the world, but it doesn't accurately address the problem, which is that both sides have valid complaints and both sides have blood on their hands - neither side is innocent.
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See, but that's not it. This is about trying to understand the obsession the world has with this conflict, because it is clearly an obsession. The Palestinians get more money per capita and more attention than any other "refugee" population on the planet (notwithstanding the effectiveness of the spending and the stark need is not there relative to other refugees and populations affected by disasters) and the degree of meddling by the west in the democratic governance of the Israeli democracy is staggering, with explicit attempts by the Obama admin and Europe through scores of NGOs to buy elections.

Combined with the general indifference the world has to the very same "refugees" who are in Lebanon and elsewhere held in a permanent state of apartheid because of the origin of their ancestors and the incidences of explicit ethnic cleansing (see the expulsion of the Palestinians following the Iraq-Kuwait war) and we see s systematic bias that cannot be explained because of any actual concern for the Palestinians.

Now you might not like that observation or its implications, but it is undeniable as fact.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
Yeah, I get it, I just don't think it works or is a good policy decision. Perhaps better than what exists today in the Arab world, but not a substitute for a genuine civil society, social contract and democratic institutions.
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it worked in the past. A Dey was important in the functioning of the Deylicate. It may take the delicateness of a Dey, to ensure peace in region.
 
danielpalos said:
it worked in the past. A Dey was important in the functioning of the Deylicate. It may take the delicateness of a Dey, to ensure peace in region.
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how did it work out?
 
CJ 2.0 said:
See, but that's not it. This is about trying to understand the obsession the world has with this conflict, because it is clearly an obsession. The Palestinians get more money per capita and more attention than any other "refugee" population on the planet (notwithstanding the effectiveness of the spending and the stark need is not there relative to other refugees and populations affected by disasters) and the degree of meddling by the west in the democratic governance of the Israeli democracy is staggering, with explicit attempts by the Obama admin and Europe through scores of NGOs to buy elections.

Combined with the general indifference the world has to the very same "refugees" who are in Lebanon and elsewhere held in a permanent state of apartheid because of the origin of their ancestors and the incidences of explicit ethnic cleansing (see the expulsion of the Palestinians following the Iraq-Kuwait war) and we see s systematic bias that cannot be explained because of any actual concern for the Palestinians.

Now you might not like that observation or its implications, but it is undeniable as fact.
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I agree, it's an obsession...I think there are elements of this conflict that have invited a lot more foreign interference than other conflicts you at talking about, specifically because of the shared religious geography in the region, as well as the history of foreign claim to those lands and strategic importance of the region on any number of fronts.

My stance has long been that no one other than the Jews and the Arabs can sort this stuff out, because none of "us" understand what it is to be in a conflict that lasts generations and hundreds and hundreds of years. The gifting of Israel to the Jews in '48 ("here's a country for you, surrounded by angry Arabs, but we're not going to allow anyone to sell you weapons", for example...what could go wrong in that scenario...) was a massive blow to any kind of resolution between the two parties, given the way it was done, and Western involvement hasn't improved much since.

I think you have any number of camps involved, in terms of the various degree of concern for either the Israelis or the Palestinians. I think there are a large number people are legitimately concerned about the Palestinians because the Palestinians have been very effective at getting what is happening to them out to audiences -- mixed in with as much propaganda as Zionists have peppered their side of the story with, of course. Then I think you have those that truly hate one side or the other (which must be a tough discussion around the burning cross, as to who they hate more, the Jews or the Muslims, and which one to support...hehe). And politically speaking there are any number of motivators, at which I could only guess at. And finally, I think a lot of people are just tired of the conflict...I mean, I'm 40, and I've never known a time when there wasn't drama coming out of that region. And it would be nice if it were to stop. When both sides are to blame, the buck stops at the one who's in charge, unfortunately. That's pretty normal, and not isolated to the Israel situation.

In my opinion the world should put a complete economic and diplomatic wall around the entire region, and refuse to do any trade or diplomacy whatsoever with anyone there until this **** gets resolved, and then back away. This would both force countries in the region to resolve their issues quickly if they wish to do trade, and acknowledge the elephant in the room, which is the West isn't helping anything by being directly involved.

Of course, there are any number of political and economic reasons why this won't happen, but it would be the most efficient and fair thing to do.
 
oneworld2 said:
Good for you , seriously. If debate here has sparked an interest in aspects you have , until now , not pursued then that's a good thing. Happens to me all the time , learning new stuff , having your perceptions challenged and it causing you to maybe reflect some more is good
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Thankes.
I'll be glad if you answer the question in the op. There are 8 pages and roughly 3 or 4 post which actually trying to adress to the thread topic.
 
Grand Mal said:
Here's a bit of meaning- do your own damn research.
The way these boards work is you bring a topic of discussion, maybe squander a minute or two stating your position, and anyone else interested will chime in.
Are you really asking a random group of strangers on the internet to inform you?
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Why you mad bruh?
If you don't want to adress to the topic, just move on.
 
Fearandloathing said:
You're in Israel and you're asking an American anonymous opinion board about the history of the Palestinian people? Why not go to the library, better yet ask a Palestinian.
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Already answered to that.
 
danielpalos said:
The dey was chosen by local civilian, military, and religious leaders to govern for life and ruled with a high degree of autonomy

The dey was assisted in governing made up of the Chiefs of the Army and Navy, the Director of Shipping, the Treasurer-General and the Collector of Tributes.

a possible "career path" for "retiring field marshals"?
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danielpalos:

So are you suggesting that all of Israel and the Occupied territories/rump-Palestine plus Jordan be returned to Ottoman or Turkish rule and be presided over by an appointed dey with an iron fist from Ankara? If that is the case then there are 200= nuclear weapons which might vigorously contest that "simple solution".

If you mean an Israeli appointed dey, well that's effectively tying a bow on an Israeli mini-empire in the Levant for everyone to see. If you mean a dey picked from the Palestinian population then that would undermine the policy of divide and rule which Israel has so successfully used on the Palestinians for almost seventy years now.

Thus some clarity on your part is needed to tie down the annoying details of the "New Dey" solution.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
NO1 said:
Mmmm ok... you have proof.
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Here ya go.
http://www.ancient-origins.net/news...-are-descendants-one-man-and-woman-who-021536

In 1987, studies of mitochondrial DNA (which tracks maternal ancestry), suggested that all human beings were descendants of one woman who may have lived in Africa about 200,000 years ago. Similar research has been carried out on the Y chromosome of men (which tracks paternal ancestry), from various places, but here the estimates of research vary quite widely—from 60,000 years to 580,000 years ago. However, in 2013, a study published in the journal Science showed that almost every man alive today can trace his origins to one man who lived approximately 135,000 years ago, and that this ancient man was alive at the same time as the woman who his known as the ‘mother of all women’, providing evidence for an ancient ‘Adam and Eve’, popularly known as Y-chromosomal Adam and mitochondrial Eve.
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NO1 said:
Thankes.
I'll be glad if you answer the question in the op. There are 8 pages and roughly 3 or 4 post which actually trying to adress to the thread topic.
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I know Rashid Khalidi has written extensively on the subject of Palestinian nationalism , he might be worth looking up for some information
 
Elvira said:
Who were the Philistines mentioned in the Bible?

The Bible often refers to a people known as the Philistines, who lived in Canaan when God’s ancient people took possession of the Promised Land. For a long time, these ancient Philistines opposed God’s people, as is highlighted in the account of David’s encounter with the giant Philistine champion named Goliath.​—1 Samuel 17:1-3, 23-53.

The Bible indicates that the ancient Philistines migrated from Caphtor to the southwestern coast of Canaan. (Jeremiah 47:4) Where was Caphtor? The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (1979) notes: “Although the evidence does not permit a definitive solution, current scholarship points to the island of Crete (or perhaps Crete plus the Aegean Isles, which culturally belong together) as by far the most probable site.”​—Volume 1, page 610.

In line with this, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures reads at Amos 9:7: “‘Are you not like the sons of the Cush-ites to me, O sons of Israel?’ is the utterance of Jehovah. ‘Did I not bring Israel itself up out of the land of Egypt, and the Philistines out of Crete, and Syria out of Kir?’”

It is not known when this ancient sea people migrated from Crete to the section of Canaan that came to be called Philistia, the southwestern coastline between Joppa and Gaza. They seem to have already been in this region of low coastal plains in the days of Abraham and Isaac.​—Genesis 20:1, 2; 21:32-34; 26:1-18.

The Philistines continued to be a potent force in the area long after Israel entered the land that God had promised them. (Exodus 13:17; Joshua 13:2; Judges 1:18, 19; 3:3, 4; 15:9, 10; 1 Samuel 4:1-11; 7:7-14; 13:19-23; 1 Kings 16:15) As late as the reign of Judean king Uzziah, Philistines remained in their cities Gath, Jabneh, and Ashdod. (2 Chronicles 26:6) Others of their cities prominent in Biblical accounts were Ekron, Ashkelon, and Gaza.

Alexander the Great conquered the Philistine city of Gaza, but in time, the Philistines apparently ceased to be a separate people. Professor Lawrence E. Stager wrote in Biblical Archaeology Review (May/​June 1991): “The Philistines too were exiled to Babylon. . . . No record exists, however, as to what happened to the exiled Philistines. Those who may have remained in Ashkelon after Nebuchadrezzar’s conquest apparently lost their ethnic identity. They simply disappear from history.”

The modern name Palestine is derived from Latin and Greek words, which leads further back to the Hebrew word for “Philistia.” Some Bible translations in the Arabic language use a word for “Philistines” that is easily confused with the word for modern Palestinians. However, Today’s Arabic Version uses a different Arabic word, thus distinguishing between the ancient Philistines and modern Palestinians.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1995088?q=palestinians&p=par
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Greetings, Elvira. :2wave:

:thumbs: :thumbs:
 
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