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Israeli Defence Forces kill 16 Palestinians and Injure Hundreds in Gaza.[W:169]

Rexedgar said:
Your post states that the Palestinians would "move gradually closer."

This copied from a NYT article about an interview with Moshe Dayan, the eye patch wearing former Israeli Defense Minister:

General Dayan interrupted: ''Never mind that. After all, I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. In my opinion, more than 80 percent, but let's talk about 80 percent. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow some area where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was.''

The remarks are about the Golan Heights and the 1967 Arab/Israel War. Move closer to provoke the enemy?
Click to expand...

This is BS and was never in the NYT.

No search of the NYT archives show the existence of this fake quote in any article or editorial.

During the 67 war Dayan was on the Egyptian front.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Aw, too bad there weren't more dead, more seriously wounded. The more the merrier.

And Today's winner for the martyr of the day is .......... :lamo
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Precisely. Like anyone should feel sorry over the killing of those attackers.

By the way so far 10 of the 16 killed have been named and identified as terrorists, one of those being the one filmed in the video posted here earlier. Looks like things didn't go for Hamas as expected.
 
OldFatGuy said:
This is BS and was never in the NYT.

No search of the NYT archives show the existence of this fake quote in any article or editorial.

During the 67 war Dayan was on the Egyptian front.
Click to expand...
https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=Awr...lan.html/RK=2/RS=cPZeQAJBDTAUZK8oom5EQ_.DGS0-


Paragraph 9. I would think that the NYT would have had this removed if it were not true. Byline Serge Schmemann 11MAY97. I'll await your research ?



Another link?http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrE...idx.html/RK=2/RS=jGCv8viowaCcGYq.ZHg_.feAyuE-
 
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Apocalypse said:
Precisely. Like anyone should feel sorry over the killing of those attackers.

By the way so far 10 of the 16 killed have been named and identified as terrorists, one of those being the one filmed in the video posted here earlier. Looks like things didn't go for Hamas as expected.
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Things are going exactly as Hamas expected. Dead Gazan Arabs is exactly what they wanted. They know they can't get into Israel, that's not their point...their point is to get the world pointing accusing fingers at Israel. What's a few dead bodies to Hamas? Edited film footage, people from around the world screaming at Israel for doing what any country would do protecting itself. Yep, it's a win/win for Hamas.
 
LadyMoonlight said:
Things are going exactly as Hamas expected. Dead Gazan Arabs is exactly what they wanted. They know they can't get into Israel, that's not their point...their point is to get the world pointing accusing fingers at Israel. What's a few dead bodies to Hamas? Edited film footage, people from around the world screaming at Israel for doing what any country would do protecting itself. Yep, it's a win/win for Hamas.
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Undoubtedly. What I meant is that so far it seems like those killed are members of the various terror groups in the Gaza Strip, while Hamas would have wanted to present little children or women as the victims.
 
Israel is now threatening to undertake retaliatory strikes against and targeted killings of Palestinian organisers and activists inside all of Gaza if the Land Day protests and Border marchers/campers don't stop their activity and disperse. Military use of lethal force to suppress a political movement is the social war which Israelis were discussing two years ago when they decided that even political opposition to the Israeli political project was justified in the wake of the BDS movement's success at hurting Israel's economy and reputation. This is violent state oppression pure and simple.

Palestinians' 'gather' 'anew' 'as' 'Israel' 'threatens' 'to' 'step' 'up' 'Gaza' 'response' '-' 'France' '24

Gaza-Israel violence: Israel warns of action inside Gaza - BBC News

Cheers?
Evilroddy.
 
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Evilroddy said:
The dead and wounded Palestinians were all in Gaza when injured but were gassed and shot nonetheless. Is this acceptable state behaviour in the 21st Century? In my opinion it is not. Not South Africa against striking miners, not in Yemen by Saudis and UAE forces, not in Syria by Turks and not in Gaza/the Occupied Territories by Israel. Israel must be called onto the carpet and sanctioned for using such unnecessary violence against crowds of protestors armed only with protest signs, incendiary Molotov cocktails lobbed at metal security fences, rocks and their own feet. This behaviour is shameful and probably criminal.

Gaza-Israel border: Clashes 'leave 16 Palestinians dead and hundreds injured' - BBC News

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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This appears to be a suicide game Hamas is taking part in. They knew they would not be allowed to breach the security fence, and yet they tried. They sent their children into the line of fire -- their fault.

Who was it that defined "insanity" as doing the same thing over and over yet hoping for different results? I would say the actions of the Gazans fit into that definition very well.

This was no quiet demonstration. Of the tens of thousands of Gazans who congregated in the area adjacent to the border with Israel on Friday afternoon, only a few thousand approached the fence itself. A few firebombs were thrown, a few roadside bombs were laid down, tires were burned and there were a few attempts to cut the fence and cross into Israel.


The army responded with an iron hand: Fifteen protesters died — most of them shot by army snipers, in many cases presumably after the protesters entered the 300-meter-wide security zone imposed by Israel on the Gazan side of the fence. Several hundred demonstrators were injured, some by gunfire and others by inhaling tear gas. The numbers point to exceptional and widespread use of live fire by the army. Friday was the worst day of violence in the Gaza Strip since the end of Operation Protective Edge in the summer of 2014.
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https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...ore-effective-way-to-agitate-israel-1.5962825

The keyword in the above article is the word, "responded." This clash was planned and orchestrated by Hamas. The blood is on their hands.
 
Evilroddy said:
Israel is now threatening to undertake retaliatory strikes against and targeted killings of Palestinian organisers and activists inside all of Gaza if the Land Day protests and Border marchers/campers don't stop their activity and disperse. Military use of lethal force to suppress a political movement is the social war which Israelis were discussing two years ago when they decided that even political opposition to the Israeli political project was justified in the wake of the BDS movement's success at hurting Israel's economy and reputation. This is violent state oppression pure and simple.

Palestinians' 'gather' 'anew' 'as' 'Israel' 'threatens' 'to' 'step' 'up' 'Gaza' 'response' '-' 'France' '24

Gaza-Israel violence: Israel warns of action inside Gaza - BBC News

Cheers?
Evilroddy.
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Gazans are continual trouble. They need to be moved out of the Strip and relocated elsewhere in the vast Arab lands. Hamas, of course, is behind this latest fiasco and they're a known terrorist organization so we can't really expect too much from them, I suppose. It's odd why they can't accept that Israel has a right to be a state -- a Jewish state -- but they can't.

Hamas loves a good death toll -- and -- if they keep at it -- they'll get what they want.

Fascinating.
 
Apocalypse said:
Undoubtedly. What I meant is that so far it seems like those killed are members of the various terror groups in the Gaza Strip, while Hamas would have wanted to present little children or women as the victims.
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I heard they talked a 12-year old into going close enough to get shot, but, yes, they'd like it if the IDF killed more of their children so they can put on their typical "we're victims" routine.

The world is starting to get wise to that, however.

While there are still some who fall for it -- others are taking the initiave to really do the research and find out what happened.

By the way, the terrorists plan to keep up this little ploy to have their citizens killed for another 6 weeks.

Is that crazy or what?
 
They were punching a fence, what choice did the IDF have but to shoot them in the back? Name me one country in the world where punching a fence isn't punishable with extrajudicial firing squads?
 
Evilroddy said:
Israel is now threatening to undertake retaliatory strikes against and targeted killings of Palestinian organisers and activists inside all of Gaza if the Land Day protests and Border marchers/campers don't stop their activity and disperse. Military use of lethal force to suppress a political movement is the social war which Israelis were discussing two years ago when they decided that even political opposition to the Israeli political project was justified in the wake of the BDS movement's success at hurting Israel's economy and reputation. This is violent state oppression pure and simple.

Palestinians' 'gather' 'anew' 'as' 'Israel' 'threatens' 'to' 'step' 'up' 'Gaza' 'response' '-' 'France' '24

Gaza-Israel violence: Israel warns of action inside Gaza - BBC News

Cheers?
Evilroddy.
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Why are the Palestinians attacking a border fence?
 
Aristaeus said:
They were punching a fence, what choice did the IDF have but to shoot them in the back? Name me one country in the world where punching a fence isn't punishable with extrajudicial firing squads?
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They were doing a lot more than punching. They were trying to breach the fence and they used fire bombs and, in one case, opened fire on the IDF.

Why did they do it?

They don't learn from their mistakes, it appears.

As Golda Meir said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
 
Evilroddy said:
Israel is now threatening to undertake retaliatory strikes against and targeted killings of Palestinian organisers and activists inside all of Gaza if the Land Day protests and Border marchers/campers don't stop their activity and disperse. Military use of lethal force to suppress a political movement is the social war which Israelis were discussing two years ago when they decided that even political opposition to the Israeli political project was justified in the wake of the BDS movement's success at hurting Israel's economy and reputation. This is violent state oppression pure and simple.

Palestinians' 'gather' 'anew' 'as' 'Israel' 'threatens' 'to' 'step' 'up' 'Gaza' 'response' '-' 'France' '24

Gaza-Israel violence: Israel warns of action inside Gaza - BBC News

Cheers?
Evilroddy.
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That sounds like terrorism. Targeting their political leaders if they dont stop protesting.
 
HowardBThiname said:
They were doing a lot more than punching. They were trying to breach the fence and they used fire bombs and, in one case, opened fire on the IDF.

Why did they do it?

They don't learn from their mistakes, it appears.

As Golda Meir said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
Click to expand...



"Hamas sent a seven-year-old girl across the Gaza border fence, said the IDF on Friday afternoon.
"A seven-year-old Palestinian girl was sent by Hamas across the fence, opposite IDF soldiers.
"IDF forces immediately recognized that it was a girl and ensured that she returned safely to her parents. ..."

Hamas sent 7-year-old girl across border fence - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post

I guess the Arabs are not there yet ...
 
HowardBThiname said:
Gazans are continual trouble. They need to be moved out of the Strip and relocated elsewhere in the vast Arab lands. Hamas, of course, is behind this latest fiasco and they're a known terrorist organization so we can't really expect too much from them, I suppose. It's odd why they can't accept that Israel has a right to be a state -- a Jewish state -- but they can't.

Hamas loves a good death toll -- and -- if they keep at it -- they'll get what they want.

Fascinating.
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HowardBThiname:

Please consider what you are seemingly advocating for in the bolded sentence above. Do not feel that you must replay to my caveat, as that would likely get you dinged, but please carefully consider what you are saying and its implications for both the Israeli and the Palestinian peoples.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Barnacle said:
[/B]

"Hamas sent a seven-year-old girl across the Gaza border fence, said the IDF on Friday afternoon.
"A seven-year-old Palestinian girl was sent by Hamas across the fence, opposite IDF soldiers.
"IDF forces immediately recognized that it was a girl and ensured that she returned safely to her parents. ..."

Hamas sent 7-year-old girl across border fence - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post

I guess the Arabs are not there yet ...
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So if it would have been a 7 year old boy they woulda shot him? You gotta realize these Palestinians are penned in and trapped and Israel is the one with all the privilege. They are treating Palestinians like animals. They are threatening to capture/kill ALL Palestinians that APPEAR to be political leaders or the guy who stands out in a group of people if they do not stop protesting. Israel doesn't even respect Palestinian right to protest. If one person commits a crime they blame all Palestinians.
 
Evilroddy said:
HowardBThiname:

Please consider what you are seemingly advocating for in the bolded sentence above. Do not feel that you must replay to my caveat, as that would likely get you dinged, but please carefully consider what you are saying and its implications for both the Israeli and the Palestinian peoples.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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If UN gave ALL of Gaza to Israel it would only be 20 years before they started taking more. And building settlements outside Gaza.
 
HowardBThiname said:
They were doing a lot more than punching. They were trying to breach the fence and they used fire bombs and, in one case, opened fire on the IDF.

Why did they do it?

They don't learn from their mistakes, it appears.

As Golda Meir said, "Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."
Click to expand...

Why do they do it? I guess they're protesting at the illegal occupation of their land.
 
Barnacle said:
[/B]

"Hamas sent a seven-year-old girl across the Gaza border fence, said the IDF on Friday afternoon.
"A seven-year-old Palestinian girl was sent by Hamas across the fence, opposite IDF soldiers.
"IDF forces immediately recognized that it was a girl and ensured that she returned safely to her parents. ..."

Hamas sent 7-year-old girl across border fence - Breaking News - Jerusalem Post

I guess the Arabs are not there yet ...
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The inhumane things Hamas pulls are unthinkable. A 7-year old little girl.

Have they no humanity at all? :(
 
Fledermaus said:
Why are the Palestinians attacking a border fence?
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Fledermaus:

Why?; because the Palestinian leadership and many Palestinians don't recognise the legitimacy of the border which the fences (and in other areas the walls represent) and they also question the legitimacy the state which created such barriers since 1947 and 1967. These are political questions and not an existential threat to Israel which is by far the strongest military regional super-power in the Levant. But that is really not the point. The key point is that Israel is using disproportionate force to impose its political will on the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories and to break their will to defy Israeli power. As an occupier it has certain responsibilities to the population which it has occupied. It is not living up to those responsibilities.

Israel is killing people for publicly defying its definition of what Israel is and who can live on land both in and around Israel. Israel has a right to militarily defend its frontiers from military attack or terrorist infiltration but it does not have a right to wantonly kill people outside of Israel for just any reason Israeli planners care to come up with. The dehumanising of the whole of the Palestinian population into de facto potential terrorists and attackers and then acting with lethal force on those assumptions is what allows the Israelis to get away with this mass murder time and again since the 1920's. The fact that the Israeli Defence Forces admitted that they were spotting and targeting agitators and instigators with lethal force near and around the fence protest camps and is now apparently threatening to widen such killings and lethal force to all of Gaza is really just Israel killing for political reasons and is not Israel defending against security threats along its frontiers.

Israel is not living up to its responsibilities as a military occupier of a conquered people in a conquered land which have been in place since 1945. It is behaving illegally and disproportionately towards an occupied population which is desperately challenging its legitimacy and power over their lives. While such challenges are a certainly a serious problem for Israel, killing folks who express such defiance through public protest is not cool, nor legal by modern-day international standards.

Palestinians, despite the dehumanising propaganda and the blanket jingoistic condemnations to the contrary, are human beings with basic human rights and international protections in the post-WWII world.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
HowardBThiname:

Please consider what you are seemingly advocating for in the bolded sentence above. Do not feel that you must replay to my caveat, as that would likely get you dinged, but please carefully consider what you are saying and its implications for both the Israeli and the Palestinian peoples.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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This has gone on for 70 years now -- 70 years!

Despite all the attempts to promote peace and a two-state solution, the Gazans keep making trouble. Now, they've got this latest violence going on -- and it's supposed to continue for another 6 weeks.

They keep putting children in the line of fire. It's what they do.

It's not the Palestinians on the West Bank so much -- it's pretty much limited to the ones in Gaza, and, of course, they're led by terrorists. Israel can't afford to have them breaching the security fence, and guess what? Egypt doesn't want them either. Egypt blocks them at the Haifa border.

It's the location that's contributing to the problem. When Israel was established, they probably should have included Gaza in the new nation, but the didn't and that's led to vicious violence for 70 years.

It's a large area -- it would be very expensive to relocate all of the Gazans to other Arab nations, but, eventually, it should probably be done if we want to see peace in that area. And, I don't mean the Gazan people should lose all their possessions and wealth. They should be appropriately compensated for what they have so they can continue life (a much better life) in another spot.

That will one day happen, I believe. And, it will be the best for everyone involved -- especially the children who Hamas is sending into the line of fire.
 
Evilroddy said:
Israel is not living up to its responsibilities as a military occupier of a conquered people in a conquered land which have been in place since 1945. It is behaving illegally and disproportionately towards an occupied population which is desperately challenging its legitimacy and power over their lives. While such challenges are a certainly a serious problem for Israel, killing folks who express such defiance through public protest is not cool, nor legal by modern-day international standards.


Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Because it's not a military occupier. It's a country that was legitimately established. Period.

The same thing has happened thousands of times across the globe, one group of people claims land that belonged to another group previously. That's how nations formed and reformed for tens of thousands of years.

Israel is no different than other nations in that. Just as the US will never give back parts of our southern states to Mexico, Israel will never give it's land to the Palestinians. It's crazy to even contemplate such silliness. Yet, the Gazans keep taking part in violent provocations that do not end well for them.

A death wish, I guess.
 
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