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U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid..[W:21]

We gave over 15 billion dollars in defense funding and weaponry to Israel under Obama...

I was unimpressed with Obama's support, money aside. I support Obama on social policy, with a couple exceptions, but found his foreign policy lacking.
 
To Lady Haley, Hear! Hear!


 
I have no dog in the dispute between Israel and Palestine.

But I do know that back in 1947, the Jewish Agency of Palestine (representing Jews and Zionists) signed a document (Partition Plan for Palestine / UN Resolution 181) which declared that Jerusalem shall be an international city administered by the UN.

I know that since then, the international community (and the US) adhered to this Resolution and virtually all states located their respective Israel embassy in Tel Aviv (including the US).

I know that in 1995, the 104th Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act, but every US president since has signed a waiver every 6 months keeping the US embassy in Tel Aviv and maintaining the US as an honest/unbiased mediator in I/P negotiations.

I also know that in this spirit, there are 86+ foreign embassies in Tel Aviv and 0 in Jerusalem. I also know that now the US will never again be regarded as an unbiased I/P mediator.

Mahmoud Abbas has already petitioned Russia and/or China to assume the official I/P negotiator role that the US has abrogated. Kushner may as well throw his I/P portfolio in the ****can.
 
To Lady Haley, Hear! Hear!




Well said; she's given many high quality speeches in the UN. Best UN ambassador in my memory.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Yep. The UN is a worthless organization anyway and we shouldn't be paying as much as we are for it. They don't do anything useful for the world except sit in their ivory towers announcing anti-semetic platitudes: all while congratulating each other on the American taxpayer dime.

Since when is taking a hit for Israel, America First?
 
the US as an honest/unbiased mediator in I/P negotiations...

I also know that now the US will never again be regarded as an unbiased I/P mediator.

Unbiased? The US has always been a staunch ally of Israel. How many countries consider Hamas a terrorist organization? Where did you get the idea that the US ever was not biased towards a democratic ally and against an official terrorist regime?

The US has nonetheless acted in the interests of legitimate, or as close as can be expected, Palestinian representation on numerous occasions.
 
I have no dog in the dispute between Israel and Palestine.

But I do know that back in 1947, the Jewish Agency of Palestine (representing Jews and Zionists) signed a document (Partition Plan for Palestine / UN Resolution 181) which declared that Jerusalem shall be an international city administered by the UN.

I know that since then, the international community (and the US) adhered to this Resolution and virtually all states located their respective Israel embassy in Tel Aviv (including the US).

I know that in 1995, the 104th Congress passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act, but every US president since has signed a waiver every 6 months keeping the US embassy in Tel Aviv and maintaining the US as an honest/unbiased mediator in I/P negotiations.

I also know that in this spirit, there are 86+ foreign embassies in Tel Aviv and 0 in Jerusalem. I also know that now the US will never again be regarded as an unbiased I/P mediator.

Mahmoud Abbas has already petitioned Russia and/or China to assume the official I/P negotiator role that the US has abrogated. Kushner may as well throw his I/P portfolio in the ****can.

Hopefully the ****can has bars and guards.....
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

It doesn't matter an ounce of spit what the majority of the UN Assembly thinks about the U.S.A. recognizing Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel. And it doesn't matter an ounce of spit that they object to us moving our embassy to Jerusalem. We are a sovereign nation and will do what we see as just and fitting.

I was so darn proud of Ambassador Haley's remarks today. Darn proud.

The vote was rather telling from those who voted for, against and abstention. I went to a webpage that listed by country the amount of aid militarily, economically, and humanitarian to all those who voted for and the numbers were astronomical that the U.S. doles out. I for one am darn tired of the UN crapping on the U.S. time and time again while wanting us to be the top donor to them so they can continue this charade. Instead of being so generous with people who do not respect our sovereignty but just like the money we dole out pox on their houses. It is time for some serious cuts. In doing so would pay for needed infrastructure, building a wall and securing the borders, in just a couple of years. Do it!

I am tired of this sovergnity argument. Look, the US is a sovereign nation. It never stopped being a sovereign nation. I don't know what sovergnity means to Trump supporters, but I have talked to a few. As a sovergn nation the US can make good and bad decisions. Nations get away with torture, genocide, etc., and the US is no different. But despite all of that, no sovergn nation is above consequences. Yes, move the embassy. Yes, bully UN members too. The rest of the world doesn't have to respect your country or work with it either. This could lead to America being isolated and losing what's left of it being a superpower. Trump is not making America great again. He is making America isolated.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Yes it is. It is the city the nation of Israel has declaredd to be it's capital. It is also recognized as such by the US. Do you think sovereign nations do not have the right to establish a capital city for their country?

Israel can do what the **** it wants. Why does our country have to get involved? Trump is supposed to be about America First. Not to mention, we are sending them billions in aid.
 
But I do know that back in 1947, the Jewish Agency of Palestine (representing Jews and Zionists) signed a document (Partition Plan for Palestine / UN Resolution 181) which declared that Jerusalem shall be an international city administered by the UN.

It's not that simple.

The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine was a proposal by the United Nations...

The resolution recommended the creation of independent Arab and Jewish States and a Special International Regime for the city of Jerusalem...

The Plan was accepted by the Jewish Agency for Palestine, despite its perceived limitations.[5][6] Arab leaders and governments rejected it[7] and indicated an unwillingness to accept any form of territorial division,[8] arguing that it violated the principles of national self-determination in the UN Charter which granted people the right to decide their own destiny.[6][9]

Immediately after adoption of the Resolution by the General Assembly, a civil war broke out[10] and the plan was not implemented.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
 
Unbiased? The US has always been a staunch ally of Israel. How many countries consider Hamas a terrorist organization? Where did you get the idea that the US ever was not biased towards a democratic ally and against an official terrorist regime?

Not my idea personally.

Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) accepted the US as a neutral host for I/P negotiations. Some of those I/P negotiations even transpired on US soil (Annapolis Conference).

That Palestinian trust is now dust in the wind. Other entities such as Russia, China, and the EU will now fill this particular US leadership vacuum.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

How is it that Trump threatening to cut off aid money over a vote is NOT a crime, but Rosie O'Donnell offering money to senators for their vote IS a crime?

One is blackmail. The other bribery.

(for the record, I think rosie o'donnell is guilty of attempted bribery)

We are already giving money. We can choose not to.
 
Not my idea personally.

Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) accepted the US as a neutral host for I/P negotiations. Some of those I/P negotiations even transpired on US soil (Annapolis Conference).

That was specific to those negotiations and merely as a host. Fatah was not declaring the US neutral in general. We could again, at any time, provide a secure location for talks.

That Palestinian trust is now dust in the wind. Other entities such as Russia, China, and the EU will now fill this particular US leadership vacuum.

That's fine. We should be with Israel. When Palestine has a legitimate democratic government, for all of its territory, and no longer sponsors hate education in elementary schools, no longer supports violent and hateful rhetoric in any province and joins the West in recognizing human rights, I'll worry about pleasing that government.
 
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Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

How is it that Trump threatening to cut off aid money over a vote is NOT a crime, but Rosie O'Donnell offering money to senators for their vote IS a crime?

One is blackmail. The other bribery.

(for the record, I think rosie o'donnell is guilty of attempted bribery)

If O'Donnell is guilt of "attempted bribery" then so are lobbyists who offer Congressional members jobs after leaving office that will make them "millions"...IF they bend their way when voting. Or influence colleagues to push bills out of committee onto the floor to get a vote.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Because a negotiated settlement on the future of Jerusalem is a fundamental part of any peace deal, and has been the UN's and America's position for half a century.

This severely harms what slim chance of peace there was.

You think there is any hope to achieve peace? I've been to many countries in the Middle East and this area has been in my job field for 16 years. It's not going to happen anytime in our lifetimes.
 
That was specific to those negotiations and merely as a host. Fatah was not declaring the US neutral in general. We could again, at any time, provide a secure location for talks.



That's fine. We should be with Israel. When Palestine has a legitimate democratic government, for all of its territory, and no longer sponsors hate education in elementary schools, no longer supports violent and hateful rhetoric in any province and joins the West in recognizing human rights, I'll worry about pleasing that government.

My position is that Israel should be a democratic state where they are equal, not an ethnocentric state. A lot of Trump supporters think Israel should be an ethnocentric Jewish state.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

You think there is any hope to achieve peace? I've been to many countries in the Middle East and this area has been in my job field for 16 years. It's not going to happen anytime in our lifetimes.

If we were 20 maybe. 2-3 generations should accomplish it, if only for that small region. Iraq and Afghanistan might also adopt Western values in that time.
 
My position is that Israel should be a democratic state where they are equal, not an ethnocentric state. A lot of Trump supporters think Israel should be an ethnocentric Jewish state.

It's not ethnocentric and it will not be. It's a Western liberal democracy.
 
I don't think this is an issue of antisemitism.

Only an antisemite would condemn this move. They are complaining about a very small portion of land acquired by a people who were killed by the millions; who have always live in that region; who finally gained a nation to call their own after being exterminated by the millions; who had to fight a war for their very existence literally 1 day after they came into existence as a country; who then had to fight multiple other wars for their very existence; who are surrounded by nations who will not even acknowledge they exist; who share land with a group of people who were on the losing side in attempting genocidal wars who now have elected governments that are terrorist organizations and carry out a soft war of terrorist attacks all the time.

No rational person would be against supporting Israel in this, if we are going to support anyone.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

If we were 20 maybe. 2-3 generations should accomplish it, if only for that small region. Iraq and Afghanistan might also adopt Western values in that time.

My husband travels and works in the Middle East. He does investments, start ups, and real estate. We talk about moving there often. The interesting thing about the region is that having money can really afford you a very high quality of life. Many aspects of city life is very modern and state of the art. We could live there and have more luxury, less medical bills, free college, more money and assets which we plan to use for more investing and traveling, but not as many rights. It's an interesting trade off to think about.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

If we were 20 maybe. 2-3 generations should accomplish it, if only for that small region. Iraq and Afghanistan might also adopt Western values in that time.

Everything is pointing that it's going the opposite direction. I attended a lecture by a feminist in a school in Jordan, one of the most moderate and pro-west countries in the Middle East, we talked about how women are still being honor killed there with almost no repercussions. Again, this in a country that is among the most moderate and most of the other countries are at a more radical start point and are trending to more radicalism.

But, I have give you a point for your optimism and say that you could be right. Who really knows? I just don't see it, with my experiences, and at the very least I don't think this decision to move an embassy will move the needle one way or another on those chances. I've always said one thing about Israel, that it's existence is good for the Middle East and Muslim countries. It is their Breakfast at Tiffany's in that it's one thing that they can all agree on to hate. Without Israel to bind them, I believe they'd be fighting each other.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

My husband travels and works in the Middle East. He does investments, start ups, and real estate. We talk about moving there often. The interesting thing about the region is that having money can really afford you a very high quality of life. Many aspects of city life is very modern and state of the art. We could live there and have more luxury, less medical bills, free college, more money and assets which we plan to use for more investing and traveling, but not as many rights. It's an interesting trade off to think about.

What country(s)? Yes, if you have money, and you're not part of a certain segment of society, it can be great.
 
Re: U.N. General Assembly repudiates Trump on Jerusalem decision despite his threat of U.S. aid cuto

Yep. The UN is a worthless organization anyway and we shouldn't be paying as much as we are for it. They don't do anything useful for the world except sit in their ivory towers announcing anti-semetic platitudes: all while congratulating each other on the American taxpayer dime.

I'm a fan of keeping diplomatic relations open with all countries, and the UN is good for that. As any kind of actual international ruling body they are a pile of hypocritical, ineffective, and illegitimate crap.
 
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