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Jared Kushner is wreaking havoc in the Middle East

Mycroft said:
Your point is dismissed.
We've already seen many examples of Congressional GOP opposition to Trump. This is just another example.
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If by voting a Republican into the White House means a Republican congress will oppose them, then your party has effectively dismissed itself..is the point.

The idea that Jared Kushner, Trump's young and inexperienced son-in-law should be in that position is ****ing ludicrous, it's old news. Stop defending his stupid choices.
 
Mach said:
If by voting a Republican into the White House means a Republican congress will oppose them, then your party has effectively dismissed itself..is the point.

The idea that Jared Kushner, Trump's young and inexperienced son-in-law should be in that position is ****ing ludicrous, it's old news. Stop defending his stupid choices.
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It may be ludicrous to you, but he's doing his job. Hey...if you don't like it, don't vote for Trump in 2020. Other than that, all you got is pissing and moaning.
 
Mycroft said:
Your point is dismissed.

We've already seen many examples of Congressional GOP opposition to Trump. This is just another example.
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It's not my fault Trump can't lead his own party.
 
rocket88 said:
It's not my fault Trump can't lead his own party.
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Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Tell me...have you said ANYTHING on topic in this thread?
 
Mycroft said:
Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Tell me...have you said ANYTHING on topic in this thread?
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Well, I only relied coherently to you. So maybe the one who is off topic is....

It actually has plenty to do with it. If Trump could or would lead his own party, there would be more diplomats and the problem would be solved. Unless your assertion was wrong.
 
rocket88 said:
Well, I only relied coherently to you. So maybe the one who is off topic is....
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No...you didn't "relied" to anything I said. I didn't say anything was your fault.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Jared Kushner is wreaking havoc in the Middle East



Dialogue?

The position of US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia? Vacant. US Ambassador to Qatar? Vacant. US Ambassador to Jordan? Vacant. US Ambassador to Jordan? Vacant. US Ambassador to Morocco? Vacant. US Ambassador to Egypt? Vacant.

Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern affairs? Vacant. Deputy Assistant Secretary for Press and Public Diplomacy? Vacant. Kushner is running [and ruining] the entire US ME diplomatic operation.

This is what happens when a president with no governing experience appoints (nepotism) his inexperienced son-in-law to manage a huge and extremely volatile State Department portfolio.
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The US has embassies in all the countries you list and acting Ambassadors in each of them. These will be career foreign service officers and fully capable o maintaining dialogue.

The US, unlike any other serious country, has had the terrible habit of appointing cronies and donors, completely inexperienced, as Ambassadors. President Trump seems to be kicking this awful practise - good for him.
 
And while Americans bicker over partisan politics on DP, people in the Middle East are dying due to the reaction to President Trump's Jerusalem decision, his kowtowing to Saudi princes over arms and the Saudi-led Yemen war, attempts at destabilisation of Lebanon and Qatar, encircling Iran and China, baiting N. Korea and his son-in-law's understandable lack of diplomatic aptitude for his brief in ME affairs. The gutting of the State Department's capacity means that US policy will further shift from using soft power and persuasion to hard military power and force in its pursuit of foreign policy goals. That kills innocent foreigners and American military personnel too, but it's oh so profitable and also distracts from the professional and moral bankruptcy of the Trump executive office.

Shame on Americans for letting things deteriorate so far and for abjuring their responsibility for electing and enforcing "responsible government" on their national leadership, Congressional and Executive. There are no adults in the room anymore, exercising restraint and sober second thought. Tweeted diplomacy by impulse and visceral spasm has replaced statecraft. Metternich would be aghast!

Cheers?
Evilroddy.
 
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Evilroddy said:
And while Americans bicker over partisan politics on DP, people in the Middle East are dying due to the reaction to President Trump's Jerusalem decision, his kowtowing to Saudi princes over arms and the Saudi-led Yemen war, attempts destabilisation of Lebanon and Qatar, encircling Iran and China, baiting N. Korea and his son-in-law's understandable lack of diplomatic aptitude for his brief in ME affairs. The gutting of the State Department's capacity means that US policy will further shift from using soft power and persuasion to hard military power and force in its foreign policy. That kills innocent foreigners and American military personnel too, but it's oh so profitable and also distracts from the professional and moral bankruptcy of the Trump executive office. Shame on Americans for letting things deteriorate so far and for abjuring their responsibility for electing and enforcing "responsible government" on their national leadership, Congressional and Executive. There are no adults in the room anymore exercising restraint and sober second thought. Tweeted diplomacy by impulse and visceral spasm has replaced state craft. Metternich would be aghast!

Cheers?
Evilroddy.
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Oh my...you are SUCH a pessimist...even to the point of "sky is falling" hyperbole.
 
Mycroft said:
Oh my...you are SUCH a pessimist...even to the point of "sky is falling" hyperbole.
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Mycroft:

Not pessimism at all, but rather awareness and empathy for those effected and affected by the arrogance of power, the pathology of militarism and the sin of public apathy and disengagement. I admit that the ME is quite capable and culpable of creating its own chaos and strife but the US and more generally the West has for too long poured oil-dollars and other incendiary political accelerants on the flames of the orient to serve its interests. Now it seems to be disruptive for kicks and whims rather than hubris and greed. That's not a good state of affairs and things are going to spin out of control as the world revolts against such mindless American hegemony.

President Trump is rapidly becoming a symbol, an image or a charicature but also a banner around which the enemies and alienated neutrals of the US will rally or muster. Eventually they will all act in concert and simultaneously to overwhelm US hegemony and conventional military power temporarily. When that cascade event occurs America will have two options. Retreat from hegemony or massively escalate to global and ruthless militarism through global war on many fronts. You are setting yourselves up for either the Gotterdammerung of America power or for Ragnarok. Neither is a good outcome for humanity. Get your national sh** together and sort things out before you reach the tipping-point and can't turn back. Like on the eve of WWI, great peril lies just under seeming tranquility, for tthe veneers of peace and civilization have always been fragile and brittle. If the leaders of Europe had listened to Jean Juares, rather than demonising him and allowing him to be assassinated, the world might have been spared two world wars. Who will speak out a hundred years later?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Evilroddy said:
Mycroft:

Not pessimism at all, but rather awareness and empathy for those effected and affected by the arrogance of power, the pathology of militarism and the sin of public apathy and disengagement. I admit that the ME is quite capable and culpable of creating its own chaos and strife but the US and more generally the West has for too long poured oil-dollars and other incendiary political accelerants on the flames of the orient to serve its interests. Now it seems to be disruptive for kicks and whims rather than hubris and greed. That's not a good state of affairs and things are going to spin out of control as the world revolts against such mindless American hegemony.
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Sounds like you are describing things under Obama, what with the increased chaos in the ME caused by his abysmal foreign policy, Hillary's incompetence and love of money and the Congressional Elite's penchant for keeping that chaos going because it helps their donor money supply.

President Trump is rapidly becoming a symbol, an image or a charicature but also a banner around which the enemies and alienated neutrals of the US will rally or muster. Eventually they will all act in concert and simultaneously to overwhelm US hegemony and conventional military power temporarily. When that cascade event occurs America will have two options. Retreat from hegemony or massively escalate to global and ruthless militarism through global war on many fronts. You are setting yourselves up for either the Gotterdammerung of America power or for Ragnarok. Neither is a good outcome for humanity. Get your national sh** together and sort things out before you reach the tipping-point and can't turn back. Like on the eve of WWI, great peril lies just under seeming tranquility, for tthe veneers of peace and civilization have always been fragile and brittle. If the leaders of Europe had listened to Jean Juares, rather than demonising him and allowing him to be assassinated, the world might have been spared two world wars. Who will speak out a hundred years later?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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That "symbol" you speak of is the result of the spinning, lies and outright ignoring what Trump has been doing in regards to foreign policy. The root of all that is the fact that he is going to disrupt the good thing the multinational globalists got going. They don't like it and they are doing everything they can to hinder his efforts. They are failing, though.

Trump is putting countries all over the world in a position they DON'T want to be in: Having to make choices they don't like. The choices they make will determine if the US remains safe, secure and economically sound...or if they will suffer economic hardship. They don't like either option. Too bad for them.
 
iguanaman said:
So you favor the military making all the foreign policy decisions instead of the State Dept.? The current gutting of State is leaving much of the world vacant of diplomacy leaving military options as the only remedy.
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State has always operated too independently from the executive. They have a history of working against directives from the executive because they "know better" and have their own ideas about how US foreign policy should operate.

Cutting state down to pull them more in line with and under the executive is a good thing, as State is an arm of the democratically elected government, it isn't supposed to be an independent mandarin organization acting above the executive.
 
Evilroddy said:
And while Americans bicker over partisan politics on DP, people in the Middle East are dying due to the reaction to President Trump's Jerusalem decision, his kowtowing to Saudi princes over arms and the Saudi-led Yemen war, attempts at destabilisation of Lebanon and Qatar, encircling Iran and China, baiting N. Korea and his son-in-law's understandable lack of diplomatic aptitude for his brief in ME affairs. The gutting of the State Department's capacity means that US policy will further shift from using soft power and persuasion to hard military power and force in its pursuit of foreign policy goals. That kills innocent foreigners and American military personnel too, but it's oh so profitable and also distracts from the professional and moral bankruptcy of the Trump executive office.

Shame on Americans for letting things deteriorate so far and for abjuring their responsibility for electing and enforcing "responsible government" on their national leadership, Congressional and Executive. There are no adults in the room anymore, exercising restraint and sober second thought. Tweeted diplomacy by impulse and visceral spasm has replaced statecraft. Metternich would be aghast!

Cheers?
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...

In terms of attributing blame for deaths to US presidents based on any sort of causality, however indirect, I don't think Trump will be able to get to Obama's tally, even if he tried to (don't tempt him though, we know he likes to "win" a bit too much)
 
Mycroft said:
Sounds like you are describing things under Obama, what with the increased chaos in the ME caused by his abysmal foreign policy, Hillary's incompetence and love of money and the Congressional Elite's penchant for keeping that chaos going because it helps their donor money supply.



That "symbol" you speak of is the result of the spinning, lies and outright ignoring what Trump has been doing in regards to foreign policy. The root of all that is the fact that he is going to disrupt the good thing the multinational globalists got going. They don't like it and they are doing everything they can to hinder his efforts. They are failing, though.

Trump is putting countries all over the world in a position they DON'T want to be in: Having to make choices they don't like. The choices they make will determine if the US remains safe, secure and economically sound...or if they will suffer economic hardship. They don't like either option. Too bad for them.
Click to expand...

Mycroft:

Regarding your first paragraph, no. I am describing a foreign policy without direction being steamrolled forward by a very small number of unelected/appointed and arguably unqualified people which President Trump has placed around him. This small group is attempting to forge a Saudi-GCC-Egyptian troika with an attached Israel to disrupt the Middle East even more than has occurred in the past. And why do this? Because it serves the business interests and globalises which you later claim President Trump is resisting.

Regarding the next two paragraphs, President Trump is serving the interests of international concentrations of capital (financial and commercial) which are just as globalist and predatory as the political globalists you claim he is opposing. In fact he is clumsily playing both sides against the middle and risks alienating all. The last couple of leaders to try this did not end well. I will spare you tired references to Germany but will cite Mussolini's Italy in the 1920's-1940's and Napoleon Bonaparte's France during the Wars of Revolution/Revolutionary Wars and the Napoleonic Wars. Neither nation benefited for long from the missteps and double-dealing of their leaders who were playing global financial! commercial and political elites off against each other and inherited the winds of war and ruin for their vain-glory and double dealing.

America could be (and I believe is) following the same road to ruin, despite the populist spin and reciprocal fake news from the pro-Trump political and public relations apparatus. You are right to say that a significant segment of the American deep-establishment/deep-state opposes Trump and skews public perceptions of him intentionally and dishonestly. However the opposite is also equally true. Long before he became a serious public political figure, it was clear to anyone who paid attention that Mr. Trump was, crude, wilful, myopic, deceitful, dishonest, mercurial, vain and thus extremely unsuited to running the American state or having such a powerful hand on international affairs. He is not preserving the flame of liberty or prosperity for America but will rather deliver the ashes of ruin to American shores. He is dangerous and his son-in-law is not capable of constraining his father-in-law's impulses, duplicity, and authoritarian sympathies. And he (the father) is clumsy enough and myopic enough to alienate so many powerful global interests that the disruption may escalate out of control to war or wars.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
In terms of attributing blame for deaths to US presidents based on any sort of causality, however indirect, I don't think Trump will be able to get to Obama's tally, even if he tried to (don't tempt him though, we know he likes to "win" a bit too much)
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CJ 2.0:

Hello there my fellow Canadian, salut mon ami! All I can say is that we are still early on in the Trump presidency and the rising death tolls in Iraq, Syria and Yemen are mounting. If a world reaction against the symbol of Trumpism and any perceived military missteps triggers a hostile global military and economic cascade against Amerca then the butcher's bill could be very high indeed. I sincerely hope I am wrong but I fear for peace and coexistence in a Trump-dominated world badly mediated by impotent relatives and authoritarian toadies and sycophants.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
State has always operated too independently from the executive. They have a history of working against directives from the executive because they "know better" and have their own ideas about how US foreign policy should operate.

Cutting state down to pull them more in line with and under the executive is a good thing, as State is an arm of the democratically elected government, it isn't supposed to be an independent mandarin organization acting above the executive.
Click to expand...

You obviously have no idea what is involved in diplomacy and gutting of State is not pulling anything "in line". Instead it is pulling us out of loop and weakening our influence world-wide and allowing others (like Putin) to fill the vacuum Trump left behind. These childish justifications of anything Trump does are getting boring. Any idiot can see that what Trump is doing to the State Dept is what Putin has "paid" him to do. Just like Tillerson was Putin's choice. Trump is nothing but a shill and not even a convincing one.
 
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Evilroddy said:
Mycroft:

Regarding your first paragraph, no. I am describing a foreign policy without direction being steamrolled forward by a very small number of unelected/appointed and arguably unqualified people which President Trump has placed around him. This small group is attempting to forge a Saudi-GCC-Egyptian troika with an attached Israel to disrupt the Middle East even more than has occurred in the past. And why do this? Because it serves the business interests and globalises which you later claim President Trump is resisting.

Regarding the next two paragraphs, President Trump is serving the interests of international concentrations of capital (financial and commercial) which are just as globalist and predatory as the political globalists you claim he is opposing. In fact he is clumsily playing both sides against the middle and risks alienating all. The last couple of leaders to try this did not end well. I will spare you tired references to Germany but will cite Mussolini's Italy in the 1920's-1940's and Napoleon Bonaparte's France during the Wars of Revolution/Revolutionary Wars and the Napoleonic Wars. Neither nation benefited for long from the missteps and double-dealing of their leaders who were playing global financial! commercial and political elites off against each other and inherited the winds of war and ruin for their vain-glory and double dealing.

America could be (and I believe is) following the same road to ruin, despite the populist spin and reciprocal fake news from the pro-Trump political and public relations apparatus. You are right to say that a significant segment of the American deep-establishment/deep-state opposes Trump and skews public perceptions of him intentionally and dishonestly. However the opposite is also equally true. Long before he became a serious public political figure, it was clear to anyone who paid attention that Mr. Trump was, crude, wilful, myopic, deceitful, dishonest, mercurial, vain and thus extremely unsuited to running the American state or having such a powerful hand on international affairs. He is not preserving the flame of liberty or prosperity for America but will rather deliver the ashes of ruin to American shores. He is dangerous and his son-in-law is not capable of constraining his father-in-law's impulses, duplicity, and authoritarian sympathies. And he (the father) is clumsy enough and myopic enough to alienate so many powerful global interests that the disruption may escalate out of control to war or wars.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Sorry, but if you think Trump has any connection to globalists, you are just plain out in left field and you really have no understanding of what his foreign policy aims are.

You know...you should really get a source of knowledgeable information that does not come from liberals or Trump haters.
 
Mycroft said:
Sorry, but if you think Trump has any connection to globalists, you are just plain out in left field and you really have no understanding of what his foreign policy aims are.

You know...you should really get a source of knowledgeable information that does not come from liberals or Trump haters.
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Mycroft:

I am open to many points of view. Can you suggest a source of objective analysis untainted by the biases and convictions of either the Trump Camp or the anti-Trumpsters? I would be happy to learn more.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Manc Skipper said:
So Kushner was tasked with solving the ME using only his realtor skills. Was has he done so far?
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To tell you the truth, I don't think we can tell yet. The proposal to move the embassy is being misrepresented and used to whip up hate in the Arab streets. That makes sense given the business model of power of most Arab regimes. They have whipped up a storm in the UN and the europeans have been shifting towards the Palestiniens for some time.

Like his father in law, I don't suspect he is really well prepared for the job. But he would probably be well briefed on the middle east.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Jared Kushner is wreaking havoc in the Middle East



Dialogue?

The position of US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia? Vacant. US Ambassador to Qatar? Vacant. US Ambassador to Jordan? Vacant. US Ambassador to Jordan? Vacant. US Ambassador to Morocco? Vacant. US Ambassador to Egypt? Vacant.

Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern affairs? Vacant. Deputy Assistant Secretary for Press and Public Diplomacy? Vacant. Kushner is running [and ruining] the entire US ME diplomatic operation.

This is what happens when a president with no governing experience appoints (nepotism) his inexperienced son-in-law to manage a huge and extremely volatile State Department portfolio.
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Most Americans are too stupid to see this or too preoccupied with wearing their red hats to care.
 
Evilroddy said:
CJ 2.0:

Hello there my fellow Canadian, salut mon ami! All I can say is that we are still early on in the Trump presidency and the rising death tolls in Iraq, Syria and Yemen are mounting.
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They are, and they are all still attributable to Obama.

The guy gave Iran billions, which have been fed directly into these conflicts. Yemen is a mess because of Iranian involvement and attacks against Saudi Arabia, Syria is Syria because of Obama's olead from behind nonsense and Iraq is Iraq because of his pre-mature pull-out.

Obama didn't get a pass on responsibility for this stuff just because his term ended.

If a world reaction against the symbol of Trumpism and any perceived military missteps triggers a hostile global military and economic cascade against Amerca then the butcher's bill could be very high indeed. I sincerely hope I am wrong but I fear for peace and coexistence in a Trump-dominated world badly mediated by impotent relatives and authoritarian toadies and sycophants.
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Yeah, I know what you mean. His handling of NK leaves a lot to be desired (although in a different way so did Clinton's, Bush's, and Obama's, since they all let things get as bad as they are now). But on the ME this realignment couldn't be more welcome. Obama's foreign policy in the ME was fundamentally wrong. Literally everything about it from his hostility to Israel to his unwillingness to support the Iranian protesters to his Cairo speech to his support for the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt to his position on Libya, to his approach to Syria, to Iraq, to his coddling and attempted reorientation to Iran. Every single thing he touched is worse now than it was before and not by accident but because what he set out to do was fundamentally wrong. All of his instincts were wrong and the results are what we are seeing now.

Trump, for all of his ... mental issues ... is actually doing much better in the ME. He is reorienting to traditional allies and antagonizing enemies, he is encouraging and facilitating alignments between allies to address threats so the US doesn't have to (see the warming ties between Israel and the gulf states as a counter to Obama-enabled Iran) and he is not willing to be browbeaten by the clueless European mandarins about how to conduct ME policy. All of that is a 100-fold improvement to where we were before.

Trump, unlike Obama, also gets why we don't have peace with the Palestinians and, unlike Obama, isn't going to go after Israel to address Palestinian intransigence.

So all in all, while it would be hard to give Trump high marks generally, I think he is doing an excellent job on the ME file.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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and to you!
 
iguanaman said:
You obviously have no idea what is involved in diplomacy and gutting of State is not pulling anything "in line". Instead it is pulling us out of loop and weakening our influence world-wide and allowing others (like Putin) to fill the vacuum Trump left behind. These childish justifications of anything Trump does are getting boring. Any idiot can see that what Trump is doing to the State Dept is what Putin has "paid" him to do. Just like Tillerson was Putin's choice. Trump is nothing but a shill and not even a convincing one.
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Yes, obviously I have no idea.

In case you didn't notice (and based on the above, you didn't) Putin's opportunity to reestablish himself as a ME player was entirely an Obama own-goal with his bungling of pretty much everything he touched and his Syria "red line".

Obama left the vacuum (where he wasn't filling it with Iranian influence). Trump is starting to fill it back in rather effectively.

As for taunts of Trump being childish because Putin "paid him to" ... well, we can just let that stand on its owm, can't we?

Finally, I would again note that State is required constitutionally to be subservient to the executive. For decades (or longer) it typically isn't and instead works to constrain and, where it feels it necessary, undermine executive decisions in favour of the preferred course of conduct by the mandarins (we saw the same thing with Reagan and the Soviets, for example). For the sake of democratic principles that should not be permitted to continue regardless of political affiliation.
 
Evilroddy said:
Mycroft:

I am open to many points of view. Can you suggest a source of objective analysis untainted by the biases and convictions of either the Trump Camp or the anti-Trumpsters? I would be happy to learn more.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Yes. I can suggest an objective source, though it is pro-Trump. If you can manage to match this source's objectivity with your own, it just might give you some insight.

This source is https://theconservativetreehouse.com

This site deals with a lot of topics...not just politics...but it accurately perceives, analyses, explains and predicts events and situations. On the subject of multinational corporations and globalists, I would suggest this article: https://theconservativetreehouse.co...rporations-and-the-export-of-american-wealth/ There are also links at the end of that article that point to explanations of various aspects of the American economy and Trump's agenda concerning it.

But...to give you something to think about before/while you investigate this source, I'll give you this bit of information that the Mainstream Media, their talking potato heads...and of course, their useful idiots...don't seem to realize about Trump:


trump-doctrine-2.jpg
 
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