‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement[W:25]

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

First of all it was clear I'm referring to the Jordanian regime that controlled east Jerusalem until its liberation and not to the modern Jordanian regime which is also backwards but not the same regime (just like Egypt's Nasser regime is not Egypt's el-Sisi), secondly Israel and Jordan aren't allies which means you're humiliating yourself when this is your "argument" and I find it hysterical.

Thirdly racism needs to be opposed whether you like it or not. If I see anti-Semitism I call it out whether you like it or not. I don't care honestly. Those who think that Jews don't have a right to their country or think that Jews should not defend themselves when targeted by terrorists or believe that an occupation of a land by a foreign entity is fine as long as that entity isn't Jewish - and all three are cases you've presented here quite perfectly - should be opposed for the evil they promote.

Finally I'm not the state of Israel, your constant inability to separate myself from the country is rooted in your demonic hatred. I wish you well, the Jewish people however will exist forever and long after you will pass from this world and you should come to understanding this truth instead of pretending like so many before you that Israel will be removed.

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I hate to burst your bubble but there isn't a huge different between the Jordanians of the past and the Jordanians of today. Neither regime was or is evil/backwards/ barbaric/ whatever other word you use to describe Arabs, especially not as you seem to think. And there certainly wasn't any liberation involved.

Yes indeed, we all find it quite hysterical how you think you are humiliating me when in reality you are the one being humiliated. You can't seem to comprehend the concept that two nations can have quite good relations and not being allied(i.e. what Israel and Jordan have) and its highly amusing.

Except you don't seem "racism"; you see somebody disagreeing with you and you are incapable of actually defending your positions, so you shriek "anti semitism". And no, despite your delusions people can think the many land grabs Israel has made are unjust and still not be antisemitic. Deal with it.

"Defending yourself"? Is that what you call killing random bystanders in futile attempts to take out terrorists who are long gone by the time the missiles launch?

But hey, I guess for someone like you who tries to justify land grabs as "liberation" anyone opposing those land grabs are evil.

My "demonic hatred"? :lamo:lamo:lamo

You are absolutely hilarious.

The rest of your post is just rather amusing wailing from you.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

I hate to burst your bubble but there isn't a huge different between the Jordanians of the past and the Jordanians of today. Neither regime was or is evil/backwards/ barbaric/ whatever other word you use to describe Arabs, especially not as you seem to think. And there certainly wasn't any liberation involved.

Yes indeed, we all find it quite hysterical how you think you are humiliating me when in reality you are the one being humiliated. You can't seem to comprehend the concept that two nations can have quite good relations and not being allied(i.e. what Israel and Jordan have) and its highly amusing.

Except you don't seem "racism"; you see somebody disagreeing with you and you are incapable of actually defending your positions, so you shriek "anti semitism". And no, despite your delusions people can think the many land grabs Israel has made are unjust and still not be antisemitic. Deal with it.

"Defending yourself"? Is that what you call killing random bystanders in futile attempts to take out terrorists who are long gone by the time the missiles launch?

But hey, I guess for someone like you who tries to justify land grabs as "liberation" anyone opposing those land grabs are evil.

My "demonic hatred"? :lamo:lamo:lamo

You are absolutely hilarious.

The rest of your post is just rather amusing wailing from you.

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Actually there is. The Jordanians back then were occupying a land, let's begin with that. Their action in the land they occupied was indeed barbaric. Today they don't. They're just another backwards, tyrannical regime. Your argument trying to link Israel to the modern Jordanian regime (the two aren't allies) and use it to defend your defense of the regime that was occupying that land until 1967 is hysterical and laughable.

Also, your use of "we all" to defend your argument is also ridiculously funny. I mean who are those "we all" you're talking about? You and what others? Wow. Are you attempting to gain confidence in your claims by pretending that some magical people are rooting for you? Let's make clear that I also didn't say I was humiliating you. This is your own addition and one would have to wonder why you think that way. I said your arguments are humiliating yourself. Take note of the differences.

As to your strawman argument, I call targeting terrorists defending oneself. Those who think that a people have no right to defend themsleves are horrible. Those who claim that those people who are targeting those who are directly attacking them and those alone, have no right to do so because those who are targeting them are hiding behind civilians, are holding an insanely immoral position. And those who do so merely because the ones defending themselves are Jews are engaging in racism and should be opposed by every decent person.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

Actually there is. The Jordanians back then were occupying a land, let's begin with that. Their action in the land they occupied was indeed barbaric. Today they don't. They're just another backwards, tyrannical regime. Your argument trying to link Israel to the modern Jordanian regime (the two aren't allies) and use it to defend your defense of the regime that was occupying that land until 1967 is hysterical and laughable.

Also, your use of "we all" to defend your argument is also ridiculously funny. I mean who are those "we all" you're talking about? You and what others? Wow. Are you attempting to gain confidence in your claims by pretending that some magical people are rooting for you? Let's make clear that I also didn't say I was humiliating you. This is your own addition and one would have to wonder why you think that way. I said your arguments are humiliating yourself. Take note of the differences.

As to your strawman argument, I call targeting terrorists defending oneself. Those who think that a people have no right to defend themsleves are horrible. Those who claim that those people who are targeting those who are directly attacking them and those alone, have no right to do so because those who are targeting them are hiding behind civilians, are holding an insanely immoral position. And those who do so merely because the ones defending themselves are Jews are engaging in racism and should be opposed by every decent person.

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Yes, we are all aware that today is post land grab. So? Their actions were hardly "barbaric"; the absolute worst thing that happened was a few archaeological sites got smashed up. Not something to celebrate, but hardly "barbaric" and certainly not "evil" like you've claimed.

And yet, Israel has great relations with what you describe as a "backwards, tyrannical regime". So either A) Israel "stands with evil" since y'all have great relations with Jordan; or B) you are just blowing smoke to try to justify your land grab.

Yes, your arguments in favor of the land grab are both hysterical and laughable. In all those posts, the best you've been able to do is "the land is ours because we want it and if you don't agree you are eviiiiiiiil".

"We all" seems to encompass the majority of Americans as well as international opinion, judging by the overwhelmingly negative response Trump's rather dumb idea has gotten. The rest is just you flailing around and humiliating yourself yet again.

Except you don't end up "targeting terrorists"; instead, you help them recruit by killing innocent bystanders. Then you justify the mass collateral damage by claiming those who bring it up are evil. Oh, and desperately trying to use the anti semitism card; because you still know your position has no merit and thus have to desperately play the anti semitism card in hopes that that will somehow magically make your land grab justified.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

Yes, we are all aware that today is post land grab. So? Their actions were hardly "barbaric"; the absolute worst thing that happened was a few archaeological sites got smashed up. Not something to celebrate, but hardly "barbaric" and certainly not "evil" like you've claimed.

And yet, Israel has great relations with what you describe as a "backwards, tyrannical regime". So either A) Israel "stands with evil" since y'all have great relations with Jordan; or B) you are just blowing smoke to try to justify your land grab.

Yes, your arguments in favor of the land grab are both hysterical and laughable. In all those posts, the best you've been able to do is "the land is ours because we want it and if you don't agree you are eviiiiiiiil".

"We all" seems to encompass the majority of Americans as well as international opinion, judging by the overwhelmingly negative response Trump's rather dumb idea has gotten. The rest is just you flailing around and humiliating yourself yet again.

Except you don't end up "targeting terrorists"; instead, you help them recruit by killing innocent bystanders. Then you justify the mass collateral damage by claiming those who bring it up are evil. Oh, and desperately trying to use the anti semitism card; because you still know your position has no merit and thus have to desperately play the anti semitism card in hopes that that will somehow magically make your land grab justified.

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Standing for a regime that cleanses a certain religion from its territory is horrible and that's what you've been caught doing and confronted for by several posters here.
Having relations with modern Jordan (not "good relations") has nothing to do with the regime of that era and regardless is not "standing with" anyone, and your argument that this somehow legitimizes your support for a barbaric regime is hysterical and I only keep it going because I enjoy seeing you prolonging this humiliating situation. The justification for the liberation of the land from the Jordanian occupiers is the historical right and the right to self-determination of the Jewish people, it has nothing to do with whatever you're failing at attempting to attach to it.

You are not representing the position of the majority of Americans as they are pro-Israeli and regardless are not belonging in your group of people which is represented here by people who support Iran, North Korea, Assad's Syria, etc. You'd better answer only for your (immoral & illogical) positions anyway and not attempt to pretend like you're some representative of an entity. Israel does target terrorists, your position is merely that Jews who are under attack should sit by and do nothing and just die. You should be aware though that a government will always have the obligation to defend its citizens and as such your belief that you came to believe in wholeheartedly that Jews must only die when attacked and nothing else is not a belief that will be shared by Israel, regardless of how much you'd like it to to satisfy your racist agenda.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

Standing for a regime that cleanses a certain religion from its territory is horrible and that's what you've been caught doing and confronted for by several posters here.
Having relations with modern Jordan (not "good relations") has nothing to do with the regime of that era and regardless is not "standing with" anyone, and your argument that this somehow legitimizes your support for a barbaric regime is hysterical and I only keep it going because I enjoy seeing you prolonging this humiliating situation. The justification for the liberation of the land from the Jordanian occupiers is the historical right and the right to self-determination of the Jewish people, it has nothing to do with whatever you're failing at attempting to attach to it.

You are not representing the position of the majority of Americans as they are pro-Israeli and regardless are not belonging in your group of people which is represented here by people who support Iran, North Korea, Assad's Syria, etc. You'd better answer only for your (immoral & illogical) positions anyway and not attempt to pretend like you're some representative of an entity. Israel does target terrorists, your position is merely that Jews who are under attack should sit by and do nothing and just die. You should be aware though that a government will always have the obligation to defend its citizens and as such your belief that you came to believe in wholeheartedly that Jews must only die when attacked and nothing else is not a belief that will be shared by Israel, regardless of how much you'd like it to to satisfy your racist agenda.

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Yeah, kicking out people not included in a detailed armistice, and doing it in a way that nobody died, is not even close to being horrible. I hate to burst your fantasy bubble, but I guess for those always looking for another land grab just about anything counts as a casus belli.

And yes, you do have quite good relations with Jordan; I see you've stopped trying to pretend that I claimed you were allied, and now are going to pretend that relations aren't very good. Your debate tactics are rather lacking in skill.

Yes, it is very amusing watching you humiliate yourself and dump all over your own case. You have been doing nothing but flailing and making empty claims of antisemitism for quite some time now.

While it's always amusing to listen to someone crib from Cold War era communist propaganda speeches(they liked to justify land grabs by fantasizing about "self determination" and "historic rights" as well) it doesn't change one iota of the fact that your operation was nothing more than a religiously glorified land grab because you consider Arabs to be nothing more than barbarians and you really, really, really wanted the land.

Americans are anti innocent civilians being killed, and Israeli tactics have provided everyone with a steady stream of body bags. How long do you think people are going to put up with supporting a never ending slaughter? You delusions about me are also amusing; how long do you think Americans are going to put up with hysterical shrieks of "you are evil if you don't support everything we do" from those we've spent immense sums protecting? Other than those republicans who are waiting eagerly for y'all to be wiped out because they think it'll kick off the end of days?

Not as long as you seem to fantasize.

Maybe Jews who are under attack should try something other than blasting the hell out of random civilians in futile attempts to "hit back at the terrorists". But I forgot......those are only "barbarians" right?

In other words, all your tactics do is alienate the people you can least afford to do so.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

Yeah, kicking out people not included in a detailed armistice, and doing it in a way that nobody died, is not even close to being horrible. I hate to burst your fantasy bubble, but I guess for those always looking for another land grab just about anything counts as a casus belli.

And yes, you do have quite good relations with Jordan; I see you've stopped trying to pretend that I claimed you were allied, and now are going to pretend that relations aren't very good. Your debate tactics are rather lacking in skill.

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Hilarious argument. So because Israel isn't at war with 2017 Jordan it means your defense of a land theft by pre-1967 Jordan, a nation that has no connection to the land, is completely justified. Hysterical really. No it's not. How can you keep humiliating yourself with such claims I really can't figure but do go on and recycle it for the thousandth time I'm sure it will sound even funnier.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

While it's always amusing to listen to someone crib from Cold War era communist propaganda speeches(they liked to justify land grabs by fantasizing about "self determination" and "historic rights" as well) it doesn't change one iota of the fact that your operation was nothing more than a religiously glorified land grab because you consider Arabs to be nothing more than barbarians and you really, really, really wanted the land.

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An historical right, as was made clear to you.
This is the thousandth time you use the "religious claim" nonsense to avoid facing reality and as always reality points directly at your ignorance and proves how absurd and laughable your claims are.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

Americans are anti innocent civilians being killed, and Israeli tactics have provided everyone with a steady stream of body bags. How long do you think people are going to put up with supporting a never ending slaughter? You delusions about me are also amusing; how long do you think Americans are going to put up with hysterical shrieks of "you are evil if you don't support everything we do" from those we've spent immense sums protecting? Other than those republicans who are waiting eagerly for y'all to be wiped out because they think it'll kick off the end of days?

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In case you haven't noticed it Americans cause more civilian deaths when they go after terrorists. Yes they are anti-civilian deaths and so are Israelis. Americans however are learning from Israel how to minimize civilian casualties. That is a fact. I cannot begin and explain how hysterical your hypocrisy is here. But then again it comes from the same poster who attacked Israel's liberation of Jerusalem and his first argument was "I support Jordan's occupation". An hypocrite who judges by race, nationality and religion.

Your agenda, anyway, has nothing to do with America or with innocents. You just hate it that Jews defend themselves and target the terrorists. You've made it clear, and as you said yourself you expect Jews not to target terrorists when they are being targeted by them and thus the only available conclusion is that you expect them to die, to be murdered. Your arguments are rooted in racism and your belief that children, men and women who are born to Jewish parents are not entitled to life and must die is wrong, your expectation that the Israeli government will allow the murder of its citizens by terrorists is, simply put, quite stupid.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Angelus said:

And the rest of the world be damned?

I believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state. That's not the issue here. Jews have lived in Israel since before the Roman Empire - they didn't all disappear. Yes, there were Palestinian Jews.

However, the disposition of Jerusalem has been under negotiation in all sorts of international forums - both geopolitical and religious. What is the point of making a decision like this when he knows it's gonna upset far more then an apple cart?

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Screw the international forums. If Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, it also has the right to decide it's own capital inside that jewish state.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

In case you haven't noticed it Americans cause more civilian deaths when they go after terrorists. Yes they are anti-civilian deaths and so are Israelis. Americans however are learning from Israel how to minimize civilian casualties. That is a fact. I cannot begin and explain how hysterical your hypocrisy is here. But then again it comes from the same poster who attacked Israel's liberation of Jerusalem and his first argument was "I support Jordan's occupation". An hypocrite who judges by race, nationality and religion.

Your agenda, anyway, has nothing to do with America or with innocents. You just hate it that Jews defend themselves and target the terrorists. You've made it clear, and as you said yourself you expect Jews not to target terrorists when they are being targeted by them and thus the only available conclusion is that you expect them to die, to be murdered. Your arguments are rooted in racism and your belief that children, men and women who are born to Jewish parents are not entitled to life and must die is wrong, your expectation that the Israeli government will allow the murder of its citizens by terrorists is, simply put, quite stupid.

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Except we've already been over this repeatedly, and I have shown that despite your claims, Israeli tactics still inflict huge amounts of civilian casualties. But as usual you like the mental capacity to comprehend the facts of the situation, and thus have to try to justify your arguments with the usual nonsense of "you hate Jews!" As usual, you can't seem to comprehend the very obvious fact that there was no "oppression" involved.

Except you only strengthen the terrorists with your indiscriminate slaughter of random bystanders. You don't care about them since they are only "barbarians", but others do.

Yes, your delusional claims are incredibly stupid. Where exactly have I said all Jews, or even some Jews, must die?

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

Hilarious argument. So because Israel isn't at war with 2017 Jordan it means your defense of a land theft by pre-1967 Jordan, a nation that has no connection to the land, is completely justified. Hysterical really. No it's not. How can you keep humiliating yourself with such claims I really can't figure but do go on and recycle it for the thousandth time I'm sure it will sound even funnier.

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You are the one who keeps claiming how "barbaric" Jordan is, yet Israel has very good relations with them. And no, there was no "land theft" involved....there was, however, a land grab by the Israelis. You have grown increasingly hysterical and nonsensical the longer you've talked; it's very clear you are so obsessed with justifying your religiously motivated land grab that anyone who points out any aspect of reality to you is "evil".

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

An historical right, as was made clear to you.
This is the thousandth time you use the "religious claim" nonsense to avoid facing reality and as always reality points directly at your ignorance and proves how absurd and laughable your claims are.

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No, there is no "historic right" to a land grab, unless you think Germany should be allowed to annex land swathes of land in Central Europe because Germans once lived there and the original inhabitants had been wiped out.

Just like there was no right for the Israelis to grab the Sinai, yet they occupied it for years.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

Except we've already been over this repeatedly, and I have shown that despite your claims, Israeli tactics still inflict huge amounts of civilian casualties. But as usual you like the mental capacity to comprehend the facts of the situation, and thus have to try to justify your arguments with the usual nonsense of "you hate Jews!" As usual, you can't seem to comprehend the very obvious fact that there was no "oppression" involved.

Except you only strengthen the terrorists with your indiscriminate slaughter of random bystanders. You don't care about them since they are only "barbarians", but others do.

Yes, your delusional claims are incredibly stupid. Where exactly have I said all Jews, or even some Jews, must die?

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When citizens are attacked by a terrorist group that group needs to be targeted, the fact that group hides behind civilian populations means that there will be civilian casualties, in case you haven't noticed hundreds of civilians are dying every month from attacks on ISIS by the coalition forces. Your suggestion that this should mean Jews should just die without responding, because "it only strengthens the terrorists" (and no it doesn't), is only made out of your urge to see innocents who are Jewish not getting a defense from those terror attacks. Again that is the only conclusion there is to make from your position that terrorists that target Jews should not be targeted.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

You are the one who keeps claiming how "barbaric" Jordan is, yet Israel has very good relations with them. And no, there was no "land theft" involved....there was, however, a land grab by the Israelis. You have grown increasingly hysterical and nonsensical the longer you've talked; it's very clear you are so obsessed with justifying your religiously motivated land grab that anyone who points out any aspect of reality to you is "evil".

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Israel doesn't have "very good relations" with Jordan and you can repeat that lie forever it wouldn't change much, and that is besides the point that Israel having "good relations but not an alliance" as you claim, with Jordan, would not mean anything regarding your defense of the pre-1967 Jordanian regime and its actions. That was already made clear to you, yet you insist on humiliating yourself with such a dumb, pathetic and laughable argument. You haven't managed to make any supporting argument showing how is it exactly that Israel being at peace with Jordan today means your support of the regime and its actions during its occupation of the Jewish homeland is anything close to legitimate.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

No, there is no "historic right" to a land grab, unless you think Germany should be allowed to annex land swathes of land in Central Europe because Germans once lived there and the original inhabitants had been wiped out.

Just like there was no right for the Israelis to grab the Sinai, yet they occupied it for years.

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Israel occupied the Sinai during a defensive war against a regime bent on annihilating it and removing it from the face of Earth and Israel has returned the Sinai to the Egyptians in return for peace.
Again your ignorance of the subject leads you to choose funny and wrong examples to attempt and push forward your inherently false position.

The historic right of a people to their homeland is portaryed in the right to self-determination as practiced by many peoples during the last several centuries. Your denial of it only in the case of the Jewish people, again shows you first of all ask yourself what is the ethnicity/religion of the group you're discussing and only then make up your mind.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

No, there is no "historic right" to a land grab, unless you think Germany should be allowed to annex land swathes of land in Central Europe because Germans once lived there and the original inhabitants had been wiped out.

Just like there was no right for the Israelis to grab the Sinai, yet they occupied it for years.

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Israel certainly did have the right to occupy the Sinai until they felt the threat from Egypt was over.

Europe occupied Germany, and the US occupied Japan for the same reasons.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

When citizens are attacked by a terrorist group that group needs to be targeted, the fact that group hides behind civilian populations means that there will be civilian casualties, in case you haven't noticed hundreds of civilians are dying every month from attacks on ISIS by the coalition forces. Your suggestion that this should mean Jews should just die without responding, because "it only strengthens the terrorists" (and no it doesn't), is only made out of your urge to see innocents who are Jewish not getting a defense from those terror attacks. Again that is the only conclusion there is to make from your position that terrorists that target Jews should not be targeted.

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When a country uses tactics that only strengthen said terrorist group(i.e. air strikes into one of the most densely populated regions in the area) then that's a serious problem, and burying your head in the sand because "it's only "barbarian" civilians being killed" does not send a good message.

That reminds me..... when, exactly, is Israel going to join the fight against ISIS? Seems like all you've done is sit on the sidelines and watch, and vaguely mention something about "lending Egypt a hand". Which, of course, seems odd indeed.......unless, of course, having Syria and Iraq embroiled in chaos is more important to you than any old nasty terrorist group. Cynical, I know, but.....

And no, buddy, blasting random bystanders does not defend Jews in any way, shape, or form. All it does is ensure the terrorist groups will remain strong.

You aren't very good at drawing conclusions buddy.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

Israel doesn't have "very good relations" with Jordan and you can repeat that lie forever it wouldn't change much, and that is besides the point that Israel having "good relations but not an alliance" as you claim, with Jordan, would not mean anything regarding your defense of the pre-1967 Jordanian regime and its actions. That was already made clear to you, yet you insist on humiliating yourself with such a dumb, pathetic and laughable argument. You haven't managed to make any supporting argument showing how is it exactly that Israel being at peace with Jordan today means your support of the regime and its actions during its occupation of the Jewish homeland is anything close to legitimate.

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Except you absolutely do, despite the fact that you consider all Arabs to be nothing more than "barbarians." Which makes your claims that the Jordanians are "evil" a total nonstarter. You starting to figure reality out buddy?

Yes, your failing is both dumb, laughable and pathetic. Glad to see you accept that.

I've repeatedly spelled it out for you multiple times. Too bad you don't possess the mental backbone to comprehend it.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

RetiredUSN said:

Israel certainly did have the right to occupy the Sinai until they felt the threat from Egypt was over.

Europe occupied Germany, and the US occupied Japan for the same reasons.

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No, actually I do believe it was the US doing the heavy lifting of occupying Germany as well, or the Western chunk at least as "Europe" couldn't do anything as a whole at that point for the simple reason that Europe was totally fragmented and basically leveled.

The fact remains that Israel had no rightful claim to the Sinai yet occupied it anyway in what was little more than a land grab. All they did was ensure that there would be another war, because Egypt was not going to let Israeli occupation of that land go unanswered. As I recall, that directly lead to the Yom Kippur War, where the Arabs came within inches of crushing the Israelis.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Apocalypse said:

Israel occupied the Sinai during a defensive war against a regime bent on annihilating it and removing it from the face of Earth and Israel has returned the Sinai to the Egyptians in return for peace.
Again your ignorance of the subject leads you to choose funny and wrong examples to attempt and push forward your inherently false position.

The historic right of a people to their homeland is portaryed in the right to self-determination as practiced by many peoples during the last several centuries. Your denial of it only in the case of the Jewish people, again shows you first of all ask yourself what is the ethnicity/religion of the group you're discussing and only then make up your mind.

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Israel occupied land it had no right to and directly caused another war, one which they came very close to losing, because of it. That "defensive occupation" didn't stand all that well against the Egyptians in 1973 now did it buddy. The fact remains that if Israel hadn't been so bent on constant land grabs, well, maybe there's no Yom Kippur War. Instead, Israeli overconfidence and arrogance nearly lead to their own destruction. Hmm.....where have we heard of that before?

More hysterical nonsense from you.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

No, actually I do believe it was the US doing the heavy lifting of occupying Germany as well, or the Western chunk at least as "Europe" couldn't do anything as a whole at that point for the simple reason that Europe was totally fragmented and basically leveled.

The fact remains that Israel had no rightful claim to the Sinai yet occupied it anyway in what was little more than a land grab. All they did was ensure that there would be another war, because Egypt was not going to let Israeli occupation of that land go unanswered. As I recall, that directly lead to the Yom Kippur War, where the Arabs came within inches of crushing the Israelis.

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I think you might want to read up on the way israel was given Palestine. You See, the area was definitely under colonial Mandate and Türen over to israel much as so many colonies the world over were. That it was poorly done might be attributable in part to the difficulties at home given ww2 and all. That it might have made more sense after Auschwitz to have cleared part of Germany like the Ruhr or maybe Bavaria for the surviving Jews is now a mute point.
But to try to pin the blame on the Jews for liberating their Country and Building a democracy is not on.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

Israel occupied land it had no right to and directly caused another war, one which they came very close to losing, because of it. That "defensive occupation" didn't stand all that well against the Egyptians in 1973 now did it buddy. The fact remains that if Israel hadn't been so bent on constant land grabs, well, maybe there's no Yom Kippur War. Instead, Israeli overconfidence and arrogance nearly lead to their own destruction. Hmm.....where have we heard of that before?

More hysterical nonsense from you.

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The palestinians lost all legitimate rights, when they sent rockets and baby-bombs against civilian populations.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

joG said:

I think you might want to read up on the way israel was given Palestine. You See, the area was definitely under colonial Mandate and Türen over to israel much as so many colonies the world over were. That it was poorly done might be attributable in part to the difficulties at home given ww2 and all. That it might have made more sense after Auschwitz to have cleared part of Germany like the Ruhr or maybe Bavaria for the surviving Jews is now a mute point.
But to try to pin the blame on the Jews for liberating their Country and Building a democracy is not on.

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There was no "liberation" involved; we've been over this. Nobody even died in the "cleansing" when the Jordanians were in charge. The random thought of turning over a chunk of Germany for a Jewish state was a nonstarter from what I've heard.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

joG said:

The palestinians lost all legitimate rights, when they sent rockets and baby-bombs against civilian populations.

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Which has zero to do with the Sinai. Or, actually, anything I've said in that post.

Re: ‘It’s catastrophic’: U.S. allies reject Trump’s Jerusalem pronouncement

Tigerace117 said:

There was no "liberation" involved; we've been over this. Nobody even died in the "cleansing" when the Jordanians were in charge. The random thought of turning over a chunk of Germany for a Jewish state was a nonstarter from what I've heard.

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Black September ring a bell?