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Israel's Goodwill Gestures Send Wrong Messages [W:99]

RabidAlpaca said:
If you ask Palestinians or the 95% of the world's countries that recognize them, yes they did form a country. It's simply pretending they're nationless nomads floating on uninhabited land to make yourself feel better. The Israelis and religious Americans simply choose to ignore their sovereignty because they desire to see a large Israeli state. If you take the religious nuttery out of it you see two ethnic populations fighting over the same land that need to learn to coexist.
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France doesn't, the UK doesn't, Spain doesn't, Germany doesn't, Italy doesn't, Canada doesn't, Australia doesn't, the US doesn't.
Where did you bring that 95% figure from? Probably the same place where you brought the rest of your "alt-facts" from.
It is again a meaningless recognition, only though a peace agreement can they actually get lands to form a state of their own for the first time in history (as they've never had one before, not 100 years ago not 50 years ago and not now - a fact). If Morocco declares that they consider the lands (and East Jerusalem too, that even the UN partition plan rejected by the Arab aggressors didn't include as a part of the Palestinian state) to be Palestinian it doesn't mean anything, no more than it would mean if these lands were in Canada for that point.

And of course this has nothing to do with religion, most Israeli Jews are secular, the claim is historical - it's the homeland of the Jewish people as a people just as Japan is for the Japanese or the Netherlands are to the Dutch.
Rejecting history and embracing ignorance is unhelpful.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
If you ask Palestinians or the 95% of the world's countries that recognize them, yes they did form a country. It's simply pretending they're nationless nomads floating on uninhabited land to make yourself feel better. The Israelis and religious Americans simply choose to ignore their sovereignty because they desire to see a large Israeli state. If you take the religious nuttery out of it you see two ethnic populations fighting over the same land that need to learn to coexist.
Click to expand...
Nonsense.
You keep ignoring showing ignorance about the history of the conflict. The main cause of the conflict it which is - the Arabs refusing to accept the idea of Jewish presence in the ME. They just can't get over it.
And what are you talking about "need to learn to coexist", in case you don't know there are about 1.5 million Arab citizens in Israel, we learned to coexist since the establishment of the state of Israel and still learning. I’m living in Jerusalem and I worked with Arabs, I'm learning with them at my college, and often I going to eat at "Abu Gosh" (Arab village) or in the Old city. So stop lecturing about coexist.

You keep repeating that lie, but that's still a lie. There weren’t Palestinian country in 1948 and there isn't such today.
But let’s stay with your lies, why does Trump need to manage negotiation about Palestinian country between Israel and Abbas when according to you there is already Palestinian state?
And when exactly Palestine established?
What are their borders?
Who were their first president / prime minister?
 
Apocalypse said:
France doesn't, the UK doesn't, Spain doesn't, Germany doesn't, Italy doesn't, Canada doesn't, Australia doesn't, the US doesn't.
Where did you bring that 95% figure from? Probably the same place where you brought the rest of your "alt-facts" from.
It is again a meaningless recognition, only though a peace agreement can they actually get lands to form a state of their own for the first time in history (as they've never had one before, not 100 years ago not 50 years ago and not now - a fact). If Morocco declares that they consider the lands (and East Jerusalem too, that even the UN partition plan rejected by the Arab aggressors didn't include as a part of the Palestinian state) to be Palestinian it doesn't mean anything, no more than it would mean if these lands were in Canada for that point.

And of course this has nothing to do with religion, most Israeli Jews are secular, the claim is historical - it's the homeland of the Jewish people as a people just as Japan is for the Japanese or the Netherlands are to the Dutch.
Rejecting history and embracing ignorance is unhelpful.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's just uninhabited land with nationless nomads on it who don't deserve ****. Get your grubby hands on that land, it's yours for the taking because historically you have a few relatives who might have lived there!

NO1 said:
Nonsense.
You keep ignoring showing ignorance about the history of the conflict. The main cause of the conflict it which is - the Arabs refusing to accept the idea of Jewish presence in the ME. They just can't get over it.
And what are you talking about "need to learn to coexist", in case you don't know there are about 1.5 million Arab citizens in Israel, we learned to coexist since the establishment of the state of Israel and still learning. I’m living in Jerusalem and I worked with Arabs, I'm learning with them at my college, and often I going to eat at "Abu Gosh" (Arab village) or in the Old city. So stop lecturing about coexist.

You keep repeating that lie, but that's still a lie. There weren’t Palestinian country in 1948 and there isn't such today.
But let’s stay with your lies, why does Trump need to manage negotiation about Palestinian country between Israel and Abbas when according to you there is already Palestinian state?
And when exactly Palestine established?
What are their borders?
Who were their first president / prime minister?
Click to expand...

The other side of the conflict which you seem to want to ignore is that the Israelis refuse to recognize the Palestinians right to exist. You, along with Apocalypse, an alleged Israeli, claim they're nationless nomands and that their land is for anyone who cares to take it with force. Gee, I wonder why they're mad.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yep, it's just uninhabited land with nationless nomads on it who don't deserve ****. Get your grubby hands on that land, it's yours for the taking because historically you have a few relatives who might have lived there!

The other side of the conflict which you seem to want to ignore is that the Israelis refuse to recognize the Palestinians right to exist. You, along with Apocalypse, an alleged Israeli, claim they're nationless nomands and that their land is for anyone who cares to take it with force. Gee, I wonder why they're mad.
Click to expand...

So you got caught making up incredibly embarrassing lies on the conflict due to ignorance, were confronted with actual facts, and your reaction to that is... strawman arguments. Great.
 
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Apocalypse said:
So you got caught making up incredibly embarrassing lies on the conflict due to ignorance, were confronted with actual facts, and your reaction to that is... strawman arguments. Great.
Click to expand...

Yep, anyone who doesn't agree that the Palestinians are nationless nomads and that it's Jewish birthright handed down by god to steal their land, just can't handle the facts. Continue your religious nuttery, you'll never live in peace as long as you dehumanize your neighbors for not believing in the same ridiculous sky god as yours.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yep, anyone who doesn't agree that the Palestinians are nationless nomads and that it's Jewish birthright handed down by god to steal their land, just can't handle the facts. Continue your religious nuttery, you'll never live in peace as long as you dehumanize your neighbors for not believing in the same ridiculous sky god as yours.
Click to expand...

You are wasting your time.

These people seem to see the Palestinians as scum, subhuman vermin. Their hatred of these poor people is truly disgusting.

It is interesting how the longer this tragedy (from the Palestinians side) continues, the more and more Israeli leaders (and the Palestinian haters who support them) sound more and more like the Thousand Year Reich their forefathers fled from way back when.

It won't be long before extremist Israeli's are calling for a Final Solution to the Palestinian problem, I fear.



You are doing a good job RabidAlpaca...keep fighting the good fight.
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
Yep, anyone who doesn't agree that the Palestinians are nationless nomads and that it's Jewish birthright handed down by god to steal their land, just can't handle the facts. Continue your religious nuttery, you'll never live in peace as long as you dehumanize your neighbors for not believing in the same ridiculous sky god as yours.
Click to expand...

You are right. Hamas has been horrible for the Palastinians. Had the given up their birthright war by baby bombs and rockets Gaza could be a wealthy tourist franchise.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yep, anyone who doesn't agree that the Palestinians are nationless nomads and that it's Jewish birthright handed down by god to steal their land, just can't handle the facts. Continue your religious nuttery, you'll never live in peace as long as you dehumanize your neighbors for not believing in the same ridiculous sky god as yours.
Click to expand...

I'm an atheist and that's another strawman argument.
Trust ignorance and you'll be sure to continue and promote immoral positions, peace is not up to those who dehumanize Israelis and will not be decided by their embracing of ignorance to promote said hatred for Israelis.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Yep, anyone who doesn't agree that the Palestinians are nationless nomads and that it's Jewish birthright handed down by god to steal their land, just can't handle the facts. Continue your religious nuttery, you'll never live in peace as long as you dehumanize your neighbors for not believing in the same ridiculous sky god as yours.
Click to expand...

You are sounding more like a recruiter for Hamas with every post.

How can the Palestinian National Authority and Israel possibly reach a peace agreement when Hamas is willing to kill everyone on both sides.

Get rid of Hamas, and the picture changes.
 
DA60 said:
You are wasting your time.

These people seem to see the Palestinians as scum, subhuman vermin. Their hatred of these poor people is truly disgusting.

It is interesting how the longer this tragedy (from the Palestinians side) continues, the more and more Israeli leaders (and the Palestinian haters who support them) sound more and more like the Thousand Year Reich their forefathers fled from way back when.

It won't be long before extremist Israeli's are calling for a Final Solution to the Palestinian problem, I fear.



You are doing a good job RabidAlpaca...keep fighting the good fight.
Click to expand...

A great article showing why the comparison you're making in your post comes from the irrational hatred for Jews.

Online Hate Prevention Institute » Antisemitism: The Israel ? Nazi Comparison

When used in the context of Jews or Israel, it’s not just a really poor comparison; its use is designed to cause distress to those who survived the Holocaust or who grew up as the children of survivors. It’s like disagreeing with someone eating meat, and knowing they are a rape victim, choosing to make your point by comparing eating meat with rape and saying that someone who had been raped should know better. It’s not just a bad analogy, it’s applying a different standard to someone because they are a victim, making them a victim a second time.
Click to expand...
 
New drinking game to get hammered: every time Apocalypse calls someone a Nazi for disagreeing with him on Israel.
 
DA60 said:
You are wasting your time.
These people seem to see the Palestinians as scum, subhuman vermin. Their hatred of these poor people is truly disgusting.
It is interesting how the longer this tragedy (from the Palestinians side) continues, the more and more Israeli leaders (and the Palestinian haters who support them) sound more and more like the Thousand Year Reich their forefathers fled from way back when.
It won't be long before extremist Israeli's are calling for a Final Solution to the Palestinian problem, I fear.
You are doing a good job RabidAlpaca...keep fighting the good fight.
Click to expand...

I agree, it's a waste of time. I'm not anymore "pro-Palestinian" than I am "pro-Israel". They're just two tribal people who refuse to coexist with each other. The part I find so insane is that you have people like Apocalypse who have so dehumanized their neighbors that they don't even see their right to exist. Those same people then act outraged when the Palestinians don't recognize Israel's right to exist. The purest form of hypocrisy.

Abbazorkzog said:
New drinking game to get hammered: every time Apocalypse calls someone a Nazi for disagreeing with him on Israel.
Click to expand...

Yep everyone who doesn't explicitly agree with his ethno-religious birth right to all of Israel is a nazi. The ironic thing is that his ethno-religious views make him basically a nazi of another kind.

RetiredUSN said:
You are sounding more like a recruiter for Hamas with every post.

How can the Palestinian National Authority and Israel possibly reach a peace agreement when Hamas is willing to kill everyone on both sides.

Get rid of Hamas, and the picture changes.
Click to expand...

So anyone who thinks that the Palestinians are human beings deserving of their own nation and not just nationless nomads to be ****ed by Israel is a terrorist? Jesus what a hack you are.

Apocalypse said:
I'm an atheist and that's another strawman argument.
Trust ignorance and you'll be sure to continue and promote immoral positions, peace is not up to those who dehumanize Israelis and will not be decided by their embracing of ignorance to promote said hatred for Israelis.
Click to expand...

Then you've divided yourself up among ethnic lines. You can't just coexist with your neighbors, you have to have an ethno-religious state where you dehumanize people of other ethnicities by arbitrarily calling them nationless nomads so you can gobble up their land because you feel you deserve it for being a Jew.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
New drinking game to get hammered: every time Apocalypse calls someone a Nazi for disagreeing with him on Israel.
Click to expand...

If you are a neo-Nazi it would be because you follow the ideology not because you disagree with me on Israel.
However the above comparison is indeed antisemitic, I am sorry if you are incapable of coping with the fact that antisemites exist in this world and if you feel the urge to defend the racists and the haters when Jews are the victims.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
New drinking game to get hammered: every time Apocalypse calls someone a Nazi for disagreeing with him on Israel.
Click to expand...

Good one...I got a genuine chuckle out of that.
 
Apocalypse said:
the above comparison is indeed antisemitic, I am sorry if you are incapable of coping with the fact that antisemites exist in this world and if you feel the urge to defend the racists and the haters when Jews are the victims.
Click to expand...

Like. Mother. ****ing. Clockwork.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I agree, it's a waste of time. I'm not anymore "pro-Palestinian" than I am "pro-Israel". They're just two tribal people who refuse to coexist with each other. The part I find so insane is that you have people like Apocalypse who have so dehumanized their neighbors that they don't even see their right to exist. Those same people then act outraged when the Palestinians don't recognize Israel's right to exist. The purest form of hypocrisy.



Yep everyone who doesn't explicitly agree with his ethno-religious birth right to all of Israel is a nazi. The ironic thing is that his ethno-religious views make him basically a nazi of another kind.



So anyone who thinks that the Palestinians are human beings deserving of their own nation and not just nationless nomads to be ****ed by Israel is a terrorist? Jesus what a hack you are.



Then you've divided yourself up among ethnic lines. You can't just coexist with your neighbors, you have to have an ethno-religious state where you dehumanize people of other ethnicities by arbitrarily calling them nationless nomads.
Click to expand...

What other ethnicities? Arab?
I'm having a hard time following your points as you're making one ignorant remark after the other.
Palestinian isn't some unique ethnicity, I hope at least that you realize. They are Arabs who came from.. wait for it.. Arabia.

And no I'm not a "nazi of another kind". The comparison you're making between Jews and Nazis is made to inflict pain on Jews as victims of the Nazis, plain and simple. As shown above it's just like using the fact that someone is a rape victim and then telling him that eating meat is no different morally than raping someone. It's horrible, and awfully racist.
 
Apocalypse said:
If you are a neo-Nazi it would be because you follow the ideology not because you disagree with me on Israel.
However the above comparison is indeed antisemitic, I am sorry if you are incapable of coping with the fact that antisemites exist in this world and if you feel the urge to defend the racists and the haters when Jews are the victims.
Click to expand...

West Bank and Gaza Strip GDP per capita
west-bank-and-gaza-gdp-per-capita-us-dollar-wb-data.png

https://tradingeconomics.com/west-bank-and-gaza/gdp-per-capita-us-dollar-wb-data.html


israel-gdp-per-capita.png

https://tradingeconomics.com/israel/gdp-per-capita

Oh yeah...those poor Israeli's who only have 13 times the GDP per capita of those rich Palestinian's.


Let us gaze upon the luxury the Palestinians have:
23Gaza-web-master1050.jpg


But avert your eyes to the horrors of life in Israel:
tayelet-the-vibrant-mediterranean-seaside-beach-promenade-tel-aviv-israel-920x673-1840-the-pinnacle-list-tpl.jpg



Yes, the Israeli's truly are the victims in this :roll:
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
I agree, it's a waste of time. I'm not anymore "pro-Palestinian" than I am "pro-Israel". They're just two tribal people who refuse to coexist with each other. The part I find so insane is that you have people like Apocalypse who have so dehumanized their neighbors that they don't even see their right to exist. Those same people then act outraged when the Palestinians don't recognize Israel's right to exist. The purest form of hypocrisy.



Yep everyone who doesn't explicitly agree with his ethno-religious birth right to all of Israel is a nazi. The ironic thing is that his ethno-religious views make him basically a nazi of another kind.



So anyone who thinks that the Palestinians are human beings deserving of their own nation and not just nationless nomads to be ****ed by Israel is a terrorist? Jesus what a hack you are.



Then you've divided yourself up among ethnic lines. You can't just coexist with your neighbors, you have to have an ethno-religious state where you dehumanize people of other ethnicities by arbitrarily calling them nationless nomads so you can gobble up their land because you feel you deserve it for being a Jew.
Click to expand...

You responded with gibberish and emotionalism. Are you denying the Hamas is not a factor in the peace negotiations? Hamas would just as soon kill Palestinians that go against their anti Israel views, and do so regularly. How can Israel or the PNA make peace with Hamas in the picture?

Please explain?
 
Apocalypse said:
What other ethnicities? Arab?
I'm having a hard time following your points as you're making one ignorant remark after the other.
Palestinian isn't some unique ethnicity, I hope at least that you realize. They are Arabs who came from.. wait for it.. Arabia.

And no I'm not a "nazi of another kind". The comparison you're making between Jews and Nazis is made to inflict pain on Jews as victims of the Nazis, plain and simple. As shown above it's just like using the fact that someone is a rape victim and then telling him that eating meat is no different morally than raping someone. It's horrible, and awfully racist.
Click to expand...

Nope, you're basically a nazi. You don't see the Palestinians as having a right to exist. You don't want them in your country and you don't want them forming their own country, you just want them to leave or die as you creep the cage you've built for them further and further inwards. The world's opposition to Israel is not some anti-semitic plot, it's because you're being ethno-religious ****s.

RetiredUSN said:
You responded with gibberish and emotionalism. Are you denying the Hamas is not a factor in the peace negotiations? Hamas would just as soon kill Palestinians that go against their anti Israel views, and do so regularly. How can Israel or the PNA make peace with Hamas in the picture?


Please explain?
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I never said Hamas was not a factor, just that they're not the ONLY factor. Ethno-centric Jews like Apocalypse see all Palestinians as members of Hamas and Hamas as their one and only representatives. What do you think the Palestinians should do? Just die off as nationless nomads?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Nope, you're basically a nazi. You don't see the Palestinians as having a right to exist. You don't want them in your country and you don't want them forming their own country, you just want them to leave or die as you creep the cage you've built for them further and further inwards. The world's opposition to Israel is not some anti-semitic plot, it's because you're being ethno-religious ****s.
Click to expand...

Yeah yeah sure I'm a Nazi because -enter strawman argument I never said- and because -enter completely made up alt-facts-.

I think it's fairly obvious where our differences in morality lie and I'm pretty satisfied with the way you have exposed your agenda here.
 
Apocalypse said:
Yeah yeah sure I'm a Nazi because -enter strawman argument I never said- and because -enter completely made up alt-facts-.

I think it's fairly obvious where our differences in morality lie and I'm pretty satisfied with the way you have exposed your agenda here.
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Now you're claiming you never said Palestine wasn't a state? Would you make up your mind? You've stated over and over again they're not a country, so that makes all Palestinians nationless nomads ripe for the f***-ing. You don't want them in your country and you don't want them having their own? What is your final solution for them? Lay it out for us.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I never said Hamas was not a factor, just that they're not the ONLY factor. Ethno-centric Jews like Apocalypse see all Palestinians as members of Hamas and Hamas as their one and only representatives. What do you think the Palestinians should do? Just die off as nationless nomads?
Click to expand...

Might as well claim that I called for the annihilation of Australia while you're at it. :lol:
Pathetic.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Now you're claiming Palestine is a state? Would you make up your mind? You've stated over and over again they're not a country, so that makes all Palestinians nationless nomads ripe for the f***-ing. You don't want them in your country and you don't want them having their own? What is your final solution for them? Lay it out for us.
Click to expand...

That's the position of the US. Are they Nazis too? And Germany, modern Germany, are Nazis too? Spain? France? Italy?
It's a given fact and part of reality that they have no state as to current time. I'm a supporter of the two-states solution, has been here for more than 8 years and always did support it, but because I don't take your alt-facts as truth and because I confront you with the actual facts - with the truth - that makes me a Nazi? Because I'm Jewish and you feel like calling some Jews Nazis? Great stuff.

You said my position is; "You don't want them in your country and you don't want them forming their own country, you just want them to leave or die as you creep the cage you've built for them further and further inwards."

Not believing there is currently a Palestinian state (fact) does not fit the above. Show us then what you're referring to that does fit the above.
Prediction: You won't. Your immoral agenda and opinion on Israel and Jews doesn't allow you to. It's stronger.
 
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