German court calls synagogue torching an act to 'criticize Israel' [W:22]

german hick said:

Either this is about religion and antisemitism, than it belongs in the European section, or it is about the state of Israel, than it has nothing to do with antisemitism.

Only the Nazis said the Jews are a People - for the bad ways...

anyway, doing that **** belongs punished - whatever religion is harmed with such actions. And punishment took place.
A lot of posters here claim antisemitism is on the rise in Germany. That is not true, in no way - ask the jews living here. They feel more safe than in any other country. In fact if there is a religion wich is discriminated by some dumb persons, than it is Islam since the refugee crises.

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This. Islamophobia is running rampant throughout the West. Hate crimes against Muslims are running rampant as well. What is ironic is, if it weren't for warmongering politicians in America, Russia and elsewhere, there wouldn't be a refugee crisis. But, of course, people turn their attention to those most vulnerable, and punish them for the actions of these tyrants. Just as the Germans and others did with the Jews after they lost World War I.

Abbazorkzog said:

This. Islamophobia is running rampant throughout the West. Hate crimes against Muslims are running rampant as well. What is ironic is, if it weren't for warmongering politicians in America, Russia and elsewhere, there wouldn't be a refugee crisis. But, of course, people turn their attention to those most vulnerable, and punish them for the actions of these tyrants. Just as the Germans and others did with the Jews after they lost World War I.

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Wow.

So hate crimes against Muslims are still lower than against Jews, but sure Islamophobia is running rampant. Jews Still Top FBI Hate Crime Stats, But Muslims Get the Media Focus | Truth Revolt

And of course "war mongering politicians" generated the refugee crisis, everyone knows that. Oh, except that's transparently untrue as well, since of course it was the civil war in Syria which resulted in the refugee crisis (augmented of course by the west's UNWILLINGNESS to do something about it).

And of course the west is "punishing" muslims by ... er... welcoming a million refugees in so they can avoid being massacred by other muslims.

And of course all of this has absolutely nothing to do with how it is apparently ok for (presumably muslim) folks to firebomb jewish institutions because they don't like Israel. So all in all one hell of a post...

Abbazorkzog said:

This. Islamophobia is running rampant throughout the West. Hate crimes against Muslims are running rampant as well. What is ironic is, if it weren't for warmongering politicians in America, Russia and elsewhere, there wouldn't be a refugee crisis. But, of course, people turn their attention to those most vulnerable, and punish them for the actions of these tyrants. Just as the Germans and others did with the Jews after they lost World War I.

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Boy. Talk about fake news.

Abbazorkzog said:

This. Islamophobia is running rampant throughout the West. Hate crimes against Muslims are running rampant as well. What is ironic is, if it weren't for warmongering politicians in America, Russia and elsewhere, there wouldn't be a refugee crisis. But, of course, people turn their attention to those most vulnerable, and punish them for the actions of these tyrants. Just as the Germans and others did with the Jews after they lost World War I.

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What does this have to do with an attack on a synagogue in Germany?
Are you so incpabale of condemning acts of bigotry if they are directed against Jews?
It seems like I was spot on in calling out what these comparisons of yours between the situation of Muslims living in Western countries and Jews during the Holocaust mean.

Crovax said:

What country was this in?

And you are surprised somehow...

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Some white people in the US might still beat up black people there because they are black. That doesn't mean all white Americans feel the same way towards the black people living there.

European antisemitism wasn't and isn't confined to Germany.

I think the point you are alluding to is extremely , demonstrably , weak

I would say the same thing if someone from Europe were to infer that there is widespread support amongst white Americans for the return of black chattel slavery because two white people beat up a black person because of their colour

Porcupine said:

What on earth would you burn down a place of worship for?

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My guess would be because it's an easy target in the absence of a more fitting one , like an official Israeli government building

truthatallcost said:

Idk, but those who are inclined to such behavior can now bombs away on synagogues. Antisemitism's big comeback in Germany is here.

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You are always going to get crimes committed by those with a racial agenda , it doesn't, however , mean that the prosecutors have widespread support in the nation. The claim that this is a sign of a " big comeback for German antisemitism " is just hyperbole imho.............. one swallow doesn't make a summer

Omar Mateens horrific actions in Orlanda , imo , don't signify , of themselves , a big comeback in American homophobia nor Dylann Roofs actions in Charlseton signify the return of Jim Crow

german hick said:

Either this is about religion and antisemitism, than it belongs in the European section, or it is about the state of Israel, than it has nothing to do with antisemitism.

Only the Nazis said the Jews are a People - for the bad ways...

anyway, doing that **** belongs punished - whatever religion is harmed with such actions. And punishment took place.
A lot of posters here claim antisemitism is on the rise in Germany. That is not true, in no way - ask the jews living here. They feel more safe than in any other country. In fact if there is a religion wich is discriminated by some dumb persons, than it is Islam since the refugee crises.

Click to expand...

Having a neighbor who is a German Jew who immigrated to the U.S. a few years ago and still has a lot of family there, he would not agree with you. Of course all Germans, probably a large majority of Germans, are not at all anti-Semitic. None of the Germans I know are though a couple are highly critical of Israel. But. . .the fact remains, that there is a growing neo-Nazi element and others in Germany who are anti-Semitic and that has been a concern for him and his family who do not feel entirely safe there.

German TV: How anti-Semitic is Germany? - Jewish World - Jerusalem Post

and there is this, among others reporting the same theme:

Young Jews in Germany fear for their safety | Germany | DW.COM | 01.08.2014

Saying that there is no anti-Semitism in Germany is likely as silly as saying there is no anti-Semitism or racism in America.

AlbqOwl said:

Having a neighbor who is a German Jew who immigrated to the U.S. a few years ago and still has a lot of family there, he would not agree with you. Of course all Germans, probably a large majority of Germans, are not at all anti-Semitic. None of the Germans I know are though a couple are highly critical of Israel. But. . .the fact remains, that there is a growing neo-Nazi element and others in Germany who are anti-Semitic and that has been a concern for him and his family who do not feel entirely safe there.

. . .BERLIN - The public German public television station ARD broadcasted last week a documentary film about modern anti-Semitism at the heart of German society.

Close observers of contemporary anti-Semitism showered praise on the film for not shying away from showing anti-Semitism in all walks of life in Germany. . .

. . .The film appeared to break new ground, largely because it showed that hatred of Israel – the modern form of anti-Semitism – unifies many diverse groups in German society, including Islamists, mainstream Germans, left-wing Germans and rightwing extremists. Previous German documentaries focused on anti-Semitism from right-wing extremists.​

German TV: How anti-Semitic is Germany? - Jewish World - Jerusalem Post

and there is this, among others reporting the same theme:

Young Jews in Germany fear for their safety

With an increasing rate of anti-Semitic demonstrations and violence, some young German Jews no longer feel safe in their home country. Many are starting to wonder what the future holds for them. . .​

Young Jews in Germany fear for their safety | Germany | DW.COM | 01.08.2014

Saying that there is no anti-Semitism in Germany is likely as silly as saying there is no anti-Semitism or racism in America.

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I would add to this that the Jews I know in Austria genuinely believe there is no future for Jews in Austria or in Europe generally.

And I would tend to agree with them. combine the general views of Europeans with the massive influx of immigrants who are taught from birth to hate Jews and you get a recipe for increased attacks and then the legacy system not doing enough to protect them while excusing or justifying the attacks.

Sort of like exactly what happened here...

CJ 2.0 said:

Wow.

So hate crimes against Muslims are still lower than against Jews, but sure Islamophobia is running rampant. Jews Still Top FBI Hate Crime Stats, But Muslims Get the Media Focus | Truth Revolt

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Funny you source the FBI:

FBI: Hate crimes spike, most sharply against Muslims

The latest FBI annual hate crime report shows a sharp spike in the number of hate crimes nationwide, with attacks against Muslims increasing the most sharply. In one year, anti-Muslim hate crimes in the United States rose 67%, from 154 incidents in 2014 to 257 in 2015, according to the latest numbers released in the bureau's Hate Crime Statistics Report on Monday. In sheer numbers, anti-Jewish incidents were higher in 2015, but the percentage increase was much higher for incidents involving Muslim victims.

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U.S. Hate Crimes Surge 6%, Fueled by Attacks on Muslims
Hate Crimes Against Muslims Spiked 67 Percent Last Year (And that figure is probably a vast underestimate.)

So congratulations, you've contradicted yourself in the first sentence. By the way, nowhere did I say that there were a higher number of hate crimes against Muslims. But, to further reinforce my point:



Islamophobia: Understanding Anti-Muslim Sentiment in the West
Trump calls for discrimination against Muslims <- the simple fact that this man is now President renders your point wrong.

And of course "war mongering politicians" generated the refugee crisis, everyone knows that. Oh, except that's transparently untrue as well, since of course it was the civil war in Syria which resulted in the refugee crisis (augmented of course by the west's UNWILLINGNESS to do something about it).

Click to expand...

Highly incorrect.

The Iraq war: The root of Europe's refugee crisis

How ISIS Spread in the Middle East

(many of its recruits were indeed drawn from U.S.-organized prisons in Iraq), but also the tactical subtlety and capacity for deception of the most skilled members of Saddam Hussein’s intelligence services, who were also pulled into the ISIS net.

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And of course the west is "punishing" muslims by ... er... welcoming a million refugees in so they can avoid being massacred by other muslims.

Click to expand...

More victim-blaming and made up nonsense. Nowhere did I say the West was "punishing" Muslims. Try harder.

And of course all of this has absolutely nothing to do with how it is apparently ok for (presumably muslim) folks to firebomb jewish institutions because they don't like Israel. So all in all one hell of a post...

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Nobody said it was "okay" either! Seriously, try harder and take off your partisan blinders.

Apocalypse said:

What does this have to do with an attack on a synagogue in Germany?
Are you so incpabale of condemning acts of bigotry if they are directed against Jews?
It seems like I was spot on in calling out what these comparisons of yours between the situation of Muslims living in Western countries and Jews during the Holocaust mean.

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See post #60. I'm not going to participate into a multi-thread grudge match with your hyper-partisan self.

:2wave:

CJ 2.0 said:

I would add to this that the Jews I know in Austria genuinely believe there is no future for Jews in Austria or in Europe generally.

And I would tend to agree with them. combine the general views of Europeans with the massive influx of immigrants who are taught from birth to hate Jews and you get a recipe for increased attacks and then the legacy system not doing enough to protect them while excusing or justifying the attacks.

Sort of like exactly what happened here...

Click to expand...

I have a strong Austrian heritage myself, and I think of that part of me fondly, so I hope it isn't as bad as what you are reporting. But I am not there and so cannot know first hand. In fact, according to some things I have researched doing genealogy, my maiden name is likely a derivative of a Jewish name probably changed at one time to make it non Jewish? So who knows. Maybe I am a Jew and don't know it?

But yeah, to deny that there aren't racists and bigots and haters among us would be silly. And I'm sure that situation exists in other places too.

Abbazorkzog said:

See post #60. I'm not going to participate into a multi-thread grudge match with your hyper-partisan self.

:2wave:

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Of course not, you're going to enter a thread discussing an attack on a synagogue, an antisemitic attack by three antisemites in Germany, and divert attention from the act. Can't have Jews portrayed as victims can we.

Apocalypse said:

Of course not, you're going to enter a thread discussing an attack on a synagogue, an antisemitic attack by three antisemites in Germany, and divert attention from the act. Can't have Jews portrayed as victims can we.

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Post #51 was a response to a post by German Hick which I was passively agreeing with. Nothing about it was "diverting attention" from the synagogue attack. Everything in your post is invalid. Again, :2wave:

Abbazorkzog said:

Post #51 was a response to a post by German Hick which I was passively agreeing with. Nothing about it was "diverting attention" from the synagogue attack. Everything in your post is invalid. Again, :2wave:

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Sure, if you believe yourself. I think you've made things crystal clear with your sickening comment, myself.

Abbazorkzog said:

Funny you source the FBI:

FBI: Hate crimes spike, most sharply against Muslims




U.S. Hate Crimes Surge 6%, Fueled by Attacks on Muslims
Hate Crimes Against Muslims Spiked 67 Percent Last Year (And that figure is probably a vast underestimate.)

So congratulations, you've contradicted yourself in the first sentence. By the way, nowhere did I say that there were a higher number of hate crimes against Muslims. But, to further reinforce my point:

Islamophobia: Understanding Anti-Muslim Sentiment in the West
Trump calls for discrimination against Muslims <- the simple fact that this man is now President renders your point wrong.



Highly incorrect.

The Iraq war: The root of Europe's refugee crisis

How ISIS Spread in the Middle East





More victim-blaming and made up nonsense. Nowhere did I say the West was "punishing" Muslims. Try harder.



Nobody said it was "okay" either! Seriously, try harder and take off your partisan blinders.

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First of all "Islamophobia" is designed to stop any discourse on Islam. Secondly, Islamics yell victim louder than anyone. Thirdly, why would anyone in Europe respect Islam after its obvious negative impact.

There are many proven and valid reasons to fear what Islam brings.

CJ 2.0 said:

Wow.

So hate crimes against Muslims are still lower than against Jews, but sure Islamophobia is running rampant. Jews Still Top FBI Hate Crime Stats, But Muslims Get the Media Focus | Truth Revolt

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From your source............... hate crimes against Jewish people are up 9% whilst hate crimes against Muslim people are up 67 % , that only confirms what people like Abbazorkzog, German Hick and myself are saying ...... thx for providing more evidence of it

And of course "war mongering politicians" generated the refugee crisis, everyone knows that. Oh, except that's transparently untrue as well, since of course it was the civil war in Syria which resulted in the refugee crisis (augmented of course by the west's UNWILLINGNESS to do something about it).

Click to expand...

Muslim refugees have been flooding into Europe from Afghanistan , Iraq , Somalia , Libya and Syria. To just cite the events in Syria is to try to circumvent the very real involvement of the Western powers in the Arab/Muslim world. Regardless , the West has been involved in the Syrian war from the very outside and , imo , will be shown in the future to have been involved in its initiation. To try to paint a different picture of Muslim emigration from their homelands that excludes Western involvement is wholly disingenuous

And of course the west is "punishing" muslims by ... er... welcoming a million refugees in so they can avoid being massacred by other muslims.

Click to expand...

The evidence suggests that our governments don't give a flying about Muslims or Muslim refugees. The War on terror is also a war against the people in the Western states. Having a national demographic that is sure to be at loggerheads with each other does those in power the world of good when it comes to looking after themselves. To make out this situation is based on solely humanitarian considerations is to be naive in the extreme imho

And of course all of this has absolutely nothing to do with how it is apparently ok for (presumably muslim) folks to firebomb jewish institutions because they don't like Israel. So all in all one hell of a post...

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I think the decision opens a very valid and needed debate about what is antisemitism and what isn't. With another sub strand concerning whether or not Israeli actions in the ME are actually causing more acts of violence/damage against Jewish people and their institutions in the world outside of it's , still to be determined , borders

According to "Fear, Inc.," a report by the Center for American Progress, a network of misinformation experts actively promotes Islamophobia in America.

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From Abbazorkzogs link. Why don't these studies ever cite the misinformation? Think about it.

AlbqOwl said:

Having a neighbor who is a German Jew who immigrated to the U.S. a few years ago and still has a lot of family there, he would not agree with you. Of course all Germans, probably a large majority of Germans, are not at all anti-Semitic. None of the Germans I know are though a couple are highly critical of Israel. But. . .the fact remains, that there is a growing neo-Nazi element and others in Germany who are anti-Semitic and that has been a concern for him and his family who do not feel entirely safe there.

Click to expand...

So , in the above you at least recognize that " a large majority of Germans, are not at all anti-Semitic ".......... then factor in those that are wrongly classed as antisemites because they strongly oppose Israeli policies in the ME................ and you will be left with a tiny minority of genuine German bigots. Same as it ever was anywhere

. . .BERLIN - The public German public television station ARD broadcasted last week a documentary film about modern anti-Semitism at the heart of German society.

Close observers of contemporary anti-Semitism showered praise on the film for not shying away from showing anti-Semitism in all walks of life in Germany. . .

. . .The film appeared to break new ground, largely because it showed that hatred of Israel – the modern form of anti-Semitism – unifies many diverse groups in German society, including Islamists, mainstream Germans, left-wing Germans and rightwing extremists. Previous German documentaries focused on anti-Semitism from right-wing extremists.​

German TV: How anti-Semitic is Germany? - Jewish World - Jerusalem Post

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If we accept , and we should , that criticism of Israeli policies in the ME , is not , of itself , antisemitism then the above is seen for what it is........... Zionist propaganda

That Israeli state policies " unifies " so many different groups should tell people that there is something wrong them and to dismiss this as antisemitism is just plain lame. The same argument plays out elsewhere

In 1967 the Israeli government asked its leading legal advisor as to whether any Israeli settlements built on the newly conquered Palestinian Territories would be a violation of international law. He told them that they would. They disregarded this and set about building them anyway.

Years later " pro Israel " people claim UN bias because there are dozens upon dozens of UN denouncements of illegal Israeli settlement buildings/expansions. That the Israeli decision to ignore the law for 50 years , still ongoing , is somehow unmentionable shows how bizarre these claims are

With an increasing rate of anti-Semitic demonstrations and violence, some young German Jews no longer feel safe in their home country. Many are starting to wonder what the future holds for them. . .[/indent]
Young Jews in Germany fear for their safety | Germany | DW.COM | 01.08.2014

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Are they really " antisemitic demonstrations " or anti Israeli policy demonstrations ? It's a very important distinction to be made imo

Saying that there is no anti-Semitism in Germany is likely as silly as saying there is no anti-Semitism or racism in America.

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I don't think anyone has said there is no antisemitism in Germany

What they do , and what the court decision seems to relate to , is try to show people there is a definite difference between those who are critical/against ( even demonstrating against ) Israeli state policies and those who just hate Jewish people because of their Jewishness.

Only when you remove the Zionist propaganda will you see a more balanced picture of what's going on

Apocalypse said:

. Can't have Jews portrayed as victims can we.

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Nor the Palestinians by your own camp

oneworld2 said:

So , in the above you at least recognize that " a large majority of Germans, are not at all anti-Semitic ".......... then factor in those that are wrongly classed as antisemites because they strongly oppose Israeli policies in the ME................ and you will be left with a tiny minority of genuine German bigots. Same as it ever was anywhere


If we accept , and we should , that criticism of Israeli policies in the ME , is not , of itself , antisemitism then the above is seen for what it is........... Zionist propaganda

That Israeli state policies " unifies " so many different groups should tell people that there is something wrong them and to dismiss this as antisemitism is just plain lame. The same argument plays out elsewhere

In 1967 the Israeli government asked its leading legal advisor as to whether any Israeli settlements built on the newly conquered Palestinian Territories would be a violation of international law. He told them that they would. They disregarded this and set about building them anyway.

Years later " pro Israel " people claim UN bias because there are dozens upon dozens of UN denouncements of illegal Israeli settlement buildings/expansions. That the Israeli decision to ignore the law for 50 years , still ongoing , is somehow unmentionable shows how bizarre these claims are




Are they really " antisemitic demonstrations " or anti Israeli policy demonstrations ? It's a very important distinction to be made imo


I don't think anyone has said there is no antisemitism in Germany

What they do , and what the court decision seems to relate to , is try to show people there is a definite difference between those who are critical/against ( even demonstrating against ) Israeli state policies and those who just hate Jewish people because of their Jewishness.

Only when you remove the Zionist propaganda will you see a more balanced picture of what's going on

Click to expand...

I hugely dislike chopped up posts like that oneworld2--it too often destroys content, intent, and/or dishonestly portrays what the member was saying. It also is terribly unpleasant and tedious to read.

I don't deal in Zionist propaganda, however, and I believe I did not misrepresent the situation as it actually exists. A group that is not anti-semitic that is protesting Israeli policies would picket or attack the embassy, not a synagogue.

AlbqOwl said:

I hugely dislike chopped up posts like that oneworld2--it too often destroys content, intent, and/or dishonestly portrays what the member was saying. It also is terribly unpleasant and tedious to read.

I don't deal in Zionist propaganda, however, and I believe I did not misrepresent the situation as it actually exists. A group that is not anti-semitic that is protesting Israeli policies would picket or attack the embassy, not a synagogue.

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It is his way to minimize a 2 huge problems. And blame the Jews for both of them.

AlbqOwl said:

I hugely dislike chopped up posts like that oneworld2--it too often destroys content, intent, and/or dishonestly portrays what the member was saying. It also is terribly unpleasant and tedious to read.

I don't deal in Zionist propaganda, however, and I believe I did not misrepresent the situation as it actually exists. A group that is not anti-semitic that is protesting Israeli policies would picket or attack the embassy, not a synagogue.

Click to expand...

Okay , here it is again without your input

Maybe you would like to actually address the stuff it contains ,here's a second chance to do so

So , in the above you at least recognize that " a large majority of Germans, are not at all anti-Semitic ".......... then factor in those that are wrongly classed as antisemites because they strongly oppose Israeli policies in the ME................ and you will be left with a tiny minority of genuine German bigots. Same as it ever was anywhere

If we accept , and we should , that criticism of Israeli policies in the ME , is not , of itself , antisemitism then the above is seen for what it is........... Zionist propaganda

That Israeli state policies " unifies " so many different groups should tell people that there is something wrong them and to dismiss this as antisemitism is just plain lame. The same argument plays out elsewhere

In 1967 the Israeli government asked its leading legal advisor as to whether any Israeli settlements built on the newly conquered Palestinian Territories would be a violation of international law. He told them that they would. They disregarded this and set about building them anyway.

Years later " pro Israel " people claim UN bias because there are dozens upon dozens of UN denouncements of illegal Israeli settlement buildings/expansions. That the Israeli decision to ignore the law for 50 years , still ongoing , is somehow unmentionable shows how bizarre these claims are

Are they really " antisemitic demonstrations " or anti Israeli policy demonstrations ? It's a very important distinction to be made imo

I don't think anyone has said there is no antisemitism in Germany

What they do , and what the court decision seems to relate to , is try to show people there is a definite difference between those who are critical/against ( even demonstrating against ) Israeli state policies and those who just hate Jewish people because of their Jewishness.

Only when you remove the Zionist propaganda will you see a more balanced picture of what's going on

coldjoint said:

It is his way to minimize a 2 huge problems. And blame the Jews for both of them.

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Don't hide behind AlbqOwl and put some meat on the bones of your accusations.

oneworld2 said:

Don't hide behind AlbqOwl and put some meat on the bones of your accusations.

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Not in this forum.