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Thread: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    Most countries in the world have , at one time or another , been under the jack boot of a colonialist power or part of an empire ( including your own ). You should know better than to push this moot point imo
    The Ottoman Empire was a "Colonist power" in reference to Palestine?

    Oh, hell no.
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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fledermaus View Post
    The Ottoman Empire was a "Colonist power" in reference to Palestine?

    Oh, hell no.
    Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire , it's not a controversial statement. I don't see where you are going with this tbh
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    I don't blame the Jewish people for wanting to protect themselves and I support their right of self defence , what I don't support is the ongoing violations of the Palestinian people that have resulted from the establishment of the Israeli state. Have the Arabs made mistakes ? For sure they have. Should that mean that the Palestinian people are denied the right to freedom and self determination indefinitely ? Not in my book
    Sorry for omitting the earlier portion of your post but I wanted to highlight the portion with which I agree.

    The Palestinians do have a right to self determination. And when they demonstrate their threat against the Israelis has ended they should get it, in some portion of land to be negotiated between the sides (but not on all territory they say they want).

    But they have a terrorist organization explicitly dedicated to the destruction of Israel in control of Gaza and a weak Palestinian authority which is not truly willing to reconcile itself to an end of its war against the Jews on the other. And there is no dialogue in Palestinian society about what they need to do to change things and make Israel more willing to take the risks necessary for peace (which Israel did and was repaid with a decade of terrorist violence).

    IMO the onus is on the Palestinians to stop and to change their tune. Once that has happened, and only then, will the onus shift to the Israelis to stick their necks out again.

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    Since well before the creation of the state of Israel
    Come on man. You know that isn't true.

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire , it's not a controversial statement. I don't see where you are going with this tbh
    Moreover, the north was very heavily Syrian in terms of identity while the south was Egyptian. The Bedouin, of course, did not have any real territorial or national affiliation.

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by independentusa View Post
    Israel continues to build additional settlements on the West Bank as well as increasing the size of the present settlements. Do you think that Israel has the riight to buld new and expand older settlements on the West Bank?

    If they are able to do so and have the necessary military force and political will to back it up, yes.


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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    Sorry for omitting the earlier portion of your post but I wanted to highlight the portion with which I agree.
    No problem

    The Palestinians do have a right to self determination. And when they demonstrate their threat against the Israelis has ended they should get it, in some portion of land to be negotiated between the sides (but not on all territory they say they want).
    The Palestinians do have the right to self determination and it should not depend on whether the Israelis feel they deserve it. Which is what you are saying in the above.

    IMO The international community should take a stand ,like it did against South Africa, and force Israel to end the occupation and denial of Palestinian self determination as per already existing international laws. Laws , to which , Israel is already a signatory.

    I believe in trying to apply the same standards and considerations to both parties and this is where I run into trouble with people who consider themselves " pro Israel "

    Here again , what you are saying is , the Palestinians should renounce any commitment to carry out violence against Israel/Israelis............. I think that's reasonable enough to ask for

    So where is the dialogue , from your own side , stating that Israel should renounce their violence against Palestine/Palestinians ?............ which I also think would be reasonable to ask for as a commitment.

    Same with the land issue

    Israel now possesses , as the recognized state of Israel , around 80% of the former mandate. That's around 25% more than what the UN partition plan granted it. The Palestinian state would/should consist of around 20% of the former mandate and you are still demanding that they give up more of land that the laws governing such situations , laws Israel has signed up to remember , allow them.

    The above reads , to me , our security ( Israeli security ) is the paramount concern with regards to any discussions surrounding security. Our land claims are the paramount consideration on any discussions on land despite the remarkable percentages given above.

    It's the same every time these things come up . People have to point out this obvious bias in the debates

    But they have a terrorist organization explicitly dedicated to the destruction of Israel in control of Gaza and a weak Palestinian authority which is not truly willing to reconcile itself to an end of its war against the Jews on the other. And there is no dialogue in Palestinian society about what they need to do to change things and make Israel more willing to take the risks necessary for peace (which Israel did and was repaid with a decade of terrorist violence).
    And you have a massive and Hi tech military machine that regularly slaughters hundreds/thousands of Palestinians in Gaza and an army of occupation in the WB that accounts for the deaths , torturing and imprisonment of thousands more.

    In this conflict , as in any other I can think of , no side is free from guilt for crimes wrt the ongoing violence


    IMO the issue should be resolved in accordance with international law and the massive international consensus for the two state solution based around the 1967 borders. The Palestinian self determination should be authentic self determination and not some pathetic farce that is completely undermined by Israeli security concerns. The threat has to be credible and a Palestinian threat to Israel is not credible if we are talking about any existential threat. ( which your references to Hamas amount to )
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    Come on man. You know that isn't true.
    There's nothing wrong with it. The area of Palestine , of which the WB was part of , was a region of the Ottoman empire subsequently taken over by the British. All of which predate the modern state of Israel
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ 2.0 View Post
    Moreover, the north was very heavily Syrian in terms of identity while the south was Egyptian. The Bedouin, of course, did not have any real territorial or national affiliation.

    And the Jewish influence was virtually nil because the immigrant Jews being persecuted in Europe hadn't arrived
    There never has been a peace process, but rather an annexation process that used the “peace process” as a facade

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    Re: Does Israel have the right to build more ettlements on the West Bank?

    Quote Originally Posted by oneworld2 View Post
    Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire , it's not a controversial statement. I don't see where you are going with this tbh
    And when was Palestine Palestinian?
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