Palestinian Exceptionalism ? [W:81]

oneworld2 · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
I already addressed it and pointed out how there's no racial aspect to it.
For something to be racism there needs to be a racial aspect to it obviously, believing all Americans to be fat isn't racist for example.

Americans aren't a " race " of people , they are a national grouping :roll:

Your analogies are awful

Jews , by your own admission , are an distinct ethnic group , as are Arabs

If you support the idea that Jewish people have the right to keep things that do not belong to them whilst Arabs don't , there is an inherent racism in that view. IE the claims of Jews supercede the claims of Arabs

That you are even attempting to argue this point is truly pathetic

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

oneworld2 said:
Americans aren't a " race " of people , they are a national grouping :roll:

Neither are Palestinians.

Jews , by your own admission , are an distinct ethnic group , as are Arabs

Yes but he was referring to Palestinians.

Abbazorkzog · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
That is racism. Jews can be Islamophobic just like any other person, the fact that they're Jewish doesn't change that, there are Jews who hold racist views towards other Jews. Regardless any attempt to compare the status of Muslims in the Western world and that of the Jews during the darkest times of mankind is ridiculously absurd, it's very terrifying that one can make such comparison as if he has no understanding of the differences and has no actual moral compass, at all.

What Trump's Muslim Registry? What about the ad-nausea comparisons between Trump's rise and Hitler's/Fascism's? What about Geert Wilders? What about the hate crimes against immigrants unfolding across post-Brexit Britain? What about the pervasive anti-immigration, anti-Muslim sentiment literally infesting European and Western politics, virtually all levels of Western culture, Western society, Western socioeconomic dimensions on almost literally every level? How is that any different from the antisemitism of the 1930's?

Really, guy?

oneworld2 · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
They haven't "supported the Palestinian Arabs in their bid for self-determiantion", that would be had they settled for the partition plan, what they did was to share their willingness to see Israel destroyed and act on it. They failed fortunately. I fully understand your position is to deny the Jewish right to self-determination and attack the creation of Israel but it was fully justified.

To assign to the Zionist movement a position it never held is ridiculous.

The Arabs asked for a world court decision on the partition plan that they thought was completely unfair and a violation of the UN Charter on a peoples right to self determination. They , rightly , complained also about the pressure applied in the course of the vote to the countries involved.

You make out that Arab aversion to Israel is born of an irrational hatred of Jews. I say it isn't anything of the sort.

The partition plan gave around 55% of the state to around 33% of the population who were , in no small part , very recent immigrants to the country. I don't know of any national group who would accept such a situation

As for the Zionist talk of transfer , well it's well documented and pretty uncontroversial. And I think subsequent events , still ongoing , give great credence to an agenda to transfer as many Arabs as possible from the former Mandate Palestine by successive Israeli leaderships.

Openly stating a wish like that isn't good for PR/image but when you look at the actions the case is pretty self evident

oneworld2 · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
That is racism. Jews can be Islamophobic just like any other person, the fact that they're Jewish doesn't change that, there are Jews who hold racist views towards other Jews. Regardless any attempt to compare the status of Muslims in the Western world and that of the Jews during the darkest times of mankind is ridiculously absurd, it's very terrifying that one can make such comparison as if he has no understanding of the differences and has no actual moral compass, at all.

You're one of the very people who indulges in it

Referring to everything Palestinians do as " terrorism " even when it is Palestinian combatants targeting Israeli forces

How many of your posts group Hamas with Isis , Hezbollah without comment that Israel failed to strike an agreement with a secular PLO for decades and welcomed the Islamic Hamas as a counter force to them or that the Palestinians are resisting a 50 year military occupation. That Hezbollah was formed to defend Lebanon from Israeli attacks and occupations. That ISIS is the response to western destruction and attempted control over/interference in a host of Arab nations

Wow , the sheer nerve of you !! Hilarious

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

oneworld2 said:
The Arabs asked for a world court decision on the partition plan that they thought was completely unfair and a violation of the UN Charter on a peoples right to self determination. They , rightly , complained also about the pressure applied in the course of the vote to the countries involved.

You make out that Arab aversion to Israel is born of an irrational hatred of Jews. I say it isn't anything of the sort.

The partition plan gave around 55% of the state to around 33% of the population who were , in no small part , very recent immigrants to the country. I don't know of any national group who would accept such a situation

As for the Zionist talk of transfer , well it's well documented and pretty uncontroversial. And I think subsequent events , still ongoing , give great credence to an agenda to transfer as many Arabs as possible from the former Mandate Palestine by successive Israeli leaderships.

Openly stating a wish like that isn't good for PR/image but when you look at the actions the case is pretty self evident

It doesn't matter what they thought, what matters is that the partition plan was accepted by the international community and the right of the Jewish people to a state of their own was recognized. It's not like the solution gave the Jews all the land they've seen as historically theirs but the Jewish leadership had settled for it and created a state, the Arabs chose to attack and attempt to use might to destroy the Jewish state and failed. I don't remember saying anything about an irrational hatred, I did point out they've objected to any non-Muslim nation within the heart of the Ummah, they still do to this day. Again there was no position held by the Zionist movement that Arab residents need to be displaced. In the establishment of Israel, in the declaration of independence, there is a call for the Arab residents of the lands becoming parts of the Jewish state to become equal citizens.

Do notice how you still continue to argue here against Israel's very establishment, if you are to later on deny it.

oneworld2 · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
Neither are Palestinians.

Behave , they are Arabs and Arabs are a distinct ethnic group.

If you want to be ridiculous we can talk about how different the " Jewish people " are and how some are dosed up with a little/lot of European DNA etc

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

oneworld2 said:
You're one of the very people who indulges in it

Referring to everything Palestinians do as " terrorism " even when it is Palestinian combatants targeting Israeli forces

How many of your posts group Hamas with Isis , Hezbollah without comment that Israel failed to strike an agreement with a secular PLO for decades and welcomed the Islamic Hamas as a counter force to them or that the Palestinians are resisting a 50 year military occupation. That Hezbollah was formed to defend Lebanon from Israeli attacks and occupations. That ISIS is the response to western destruction and attempted control over/interference in a host of Arab nations

Wow , the sheer nerve of you !! Hilarious

I stopped laughing from your posts long ago, there's nothing funny in the way you think that calling out the actual murderous scum (Hamas, Hezbollah, the other terrorists and yes the animals who go around and stab soldiers behind their backs too) for their asinine actions is somehow wrong.

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
What Trump's Muslim Registry? What about the ad-nausea comparisons between Trump's rise and Hitler's/Fascism's? What about Geert Wilders? What about the hate crimes against immigrants unfolding across post-Brexit Britain? What about the pervasive anti-immigration, anti-Muslim sentiment literally infesting European and Western politics, virtually all levels of Western culture, Western society, Western socioeconomic dimensions on almost literally every level? How is that any different from the antisemitism of the 1930's?

Really, guy?

First of all Muslims are not an ethnic group. Secondly there's no nation that rounds them up and gasses them, men, women and children alike in the millions in an attempt to remove them all from this world. Your comparison is simply insane.

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

oneworld2 said:
Behave , they are Arabs and Arabs are a distinct ethnic group.

Behave? :lol:
Yes but Palestinians aren't. Palestinians are Arabs but a reference to Palestinians is not a reference to Arabs. All Palestinians are Arabs (more correctly most of them) but not all Arabs are Palestinian.

If you want to be ridiculous we can talk about how different the " Jewish people " are and how some are dosed up with a little/lot of European DNA etc

Oh that's what I was waiting for, you're starting to open up about your real views on Jews. Great.

faithful_servant · Dec 23, 2016

oneworld2 said:
Maybe people here will be able to help me here

I have tried to think of another example whereby a people being forced to live under a foreign military occupation are pressured/forced by the UN/World community into working toward/guaranteeing the security of those that are militarily occupying them .

I can't think of any other examples of this situation , maybe you , the reader , can and care to cite it/them

Cheers

It's not an occupation and it's not foreign. The Pals. can leave any time they want to and move to another locale that is just as much a part of their ancestral homeland as the land they are currently occupying is. They could be a part of Israel, with the same rights/responsibilities as any other Israeli citizen if they would push their gov't to do so. They could also be one of the most prosperous nations around if their leadership wasn't stealing the money being sent to help them.

Abbazorkzog · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
First of all Muslims are not an ethnic group. Secondly there's no nation that rounds them up and gasses them, men, women and children alike in the millions in an attempt to remove them all from this world. Your comparison is simply insane.

Islamophobia: Understanding Anti-Muslim Sentiment in the West

The secret costs of Islamophobia
Donald Trump: The Islamophobia president
Defining "Islamophobia"
Islamophobia Is Ruining America—But Not How You Think
Donald Trump and the Rise of Anti-Muslim Violence
Hate Crimes Against American Muslims Most Since Post-9/11 Era
Islamophobic incidents
A Running List Of Shameful Islamophobic Acts Since The Paris Attacks
Jews, Muslims gather on New Haven Green to protest Islamophobia, hate crimes
It's Not Just Hate Crimes: Islamophobia Is the Outgrowth of a Deeply Racist System

Do you have any ****ing idea what you are defending? But I guess all of the above were just written by 'insane' people.

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
IDo you have any ****ing idea what you are defending? But I guess all of the above were just written by 'insane' people.

What am I defending exactly? The notion that comparing the situation of Muslims nowadays with that of Jews during the Holocaust is insane? Yes, I'm fully aware that I'm defeding that notion.

Abbazorkzog · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
What am I defending exactly? The notion that comparing the situation of Muslims nowadays with that of Jews during the Holocaust is insane?

What happened before the Holocaust? Tell me, because it didn't just instantly happen. BAM! Holocaust. No, people defended antisemitism, the same way you're defending Islamophobia.

So, what are you going to do when some right-wing psychopath like Trump demands Israel start herding Muslims out of Israel in train cars and forcing them to sign up with a registry in which they will be forced to die by firing squad for being potential enemies of the state due to their religion?

What are you going to do when Trump gets impeached or tried before the ICC for Crimes Against Humanity and NATO launches a humanitarian intervention into Israel in an international crisis that could've been avoided if only you'd taken off your partisan blinders for the sake of humanity?

But, I digress. You claim in that post you quoted I was comparing it to the Holocaust. I did no such thing, if you'll go back and read that post, I said antisemitism not the Holocaust...

...big ****ing difference. Do your own research beyond what the State forcefed you in school.

AGAIN -

so you can't ignore it -

I'll put it in big-ass, pretty letters, so you can't ignore it -

I said antisemitism

Not the HOLOCAUST.

Antisemitism

NOT

HOLOCAUST!

Jesus Christ, dude.

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
What happened before the Holocaust? Tell me, because it didn't just instantly happen. BAM! Holocaust. No, people defended antisemitism, the same way you're defending Islamophobia.

So, what are you going to do when some right-wing psychopath like Trump demands Israel start herding Muslims out of Israel in train cars and forcing them to sign up with a registry in which they will be forced to die by firing squad for being potential enemies of the state due to their religion?

Where am I defending Islamophobia? Every form of bigotry is clearly wrong, what I'm defending is the notion that Muslims today cannot be compared with the situation Jews were under 70, 80 and even 200 years ago. It's absurd. I don't have a problem if you'll object to Islamophobia like I did here plenty of times but there's no reason to act as if Jews were treated the same as Muslims are today in Western nations.

Abbazorkzog · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
Where am I defending Islamophobia? Every form of bigotry is clearly wrong, what I'm defending is the notion that Muslims today cannot be compared with the situation Jews were under 70, 80 and even 200 years ago. It's absurd. I don't have a problem if you'll object to Islamophobia like I did here plenty of times but there's no reason to act as if Jews were treated the same as Muslims are today in Western nations.

Last edited by Abbazorkzog; Today at 7:29 PM.

Abbazorkzog · Dec 23, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
Last edited by Abbazorkzog; Today at 7:29 PM.

Please refer to the (very important) parts of the post in question you have ignored.

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
Please refer to the (very important) parts of the post in question you have ignored.

I did. I said there's no place to draw such a comparison with the status of the Jews even before the Holocaust.

Abbazorkzog · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
I did. I said there's no place to draw such a comparison with the status of the Jews even before the Holocaust.

You keep bringing up the Holocaust, yet fail to acknowledge that I am talking about antisemitism and Islamophobia. If you are unable to see the similarities, then I at the least implore you to do some more research starting with the links I have provided above, as you seem very poorly-educated on the violence and hatred shown toward Arabs by the European/White people.

Then again, you're probably just downplaying - and thus defending - Islamophobia. And have been this entire time.

I also find it a bit disturbing you keep whacking me with the 'status of the Jews' to try to pivot from the topic, which is persecution of Palestinians and Arabs/Muslims.

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
You keep bringing up the Holocaust, yet fail to acknowledge that I am talking about antisemitism and Islamophobia. If you are unable to see the similarities, then I at the least implore you to do some more research starting with the links I have provided above, as you seem very poorly-educated on the violence and hatred shown toward Arabs by the European/White people.

Then again, you're probably just downplaying - and thus defending - Islamophobia. And have been this entire time.

I also find it a bit disturbing you keep whacking me with the 'status of the Jews' to try to pivot from the topic, which is persecution of Palestinians and Arabs/Muslims.

No, but you're seriously downplaying antisemitism by claiming that Muslims in Western countries face today the same kind of stuff Jews have faced. :shrug:
And you're the one who brought up this ridiculous comparison with the Jews.

Abbazorkzog · Dec 23, 2016

Apocalypse said:
No, but you're seriously downplaying antisemitism by claiming that Muslims in Western countries face today the same kind of stuff Jews have faced. :shrug:
And you're the one who brought up this ridiculous comparison with the Jews.

Wrong, and wrong.

I didn't bring any comparison with the Jews up. My post about the ailments facing Islamic culture was a response to this bigotry.

And my response is as follows:

Abbazorkzog said:
What about Trump's Muslim Registry? What about the ad-nausea comparisons between Trump's rise and Hitler's/Fascism's? What about Geert Wilders? What about the hate crimes against immigrants unfolding across post-Brexit Britain? What about the pervasive anti-immigration, anti-Muslim sentiment literally infesting European and Western politics, virtually all levels of Western culture, Western society, Western socioeconomic dimensions on almost literally every level? How is that any different from the antisemitism of the 1930's?

Really, guy?

And every. single. time you have responded to try to counter this you have not provided what I have: that would be:

Sources.
Essays.
Graphs.
Concise and lengthy lists of accounts of violence against Muslims.
You have failed to counter any of them with ANY of the above!

To do so, so baselessly, while arguing such a controversial topic, is not only highly disrespectful, it is borderline delusional (speaking of which - I almost forgot - you called me insane for doing all of the above, good to know anyone who disagrees with you viewpoint is insane! Wonderful!!!)

Apocalypse · Dec 23, 2016

Abbazorkzog said:
Wrong, and wrong.

I didn't bring any comparison with the Jews up. My post about the ailments facing Islamic culture was a response to this bigotry.

And my response is as follows:

And every. single. time you have responded to try to counter this you have not provided what I have: that would be:

Sources.

Essays.

Graphs.

Concise and lengthy lists of accounts of violence against Muslims.

You have failed to counter any of them with ANY of the above!

To do so, so baselessly, while arguing such a controversial topic, is not only highly disrespectful, it is borderline delusional (speaking of which - I almost forgot - you called me insane for doing all of the above, good to know anyone who disagrees with you viewpoint is insane! Wonderful!!!)

Graphs? Essays? Why, what claims did I make that you find dubious?

And I called the comparison insane, it is.

You said "How is that any different from the antisemitism of the 1930's?".
This comment you quoted was in reply to mine saying there's no place for such comparison, and I stand by that, there's no place for that.
You need to relax a bit that's for sure though.

jet57 · Dec 23, 2016

RetiredUSN said:
When Palestinian parents stop sending their babies out as walking bombs, then just maybe.................. they would deserve some compassion as a society.

How many more of these threads are you going to make?

The problem is that Israeli settlements are continuing to encroach on Palestinian land. The UN has just condemned Israel for this.

Excon · Dec 24, 2016

jet57 said:
The problem is that Israeli settlements are continuing to encroach on Palestinian land. The UN has just condemned Israel for this.

Factually that isn't true.

oneworld2 · Dec 24, 2016

faithful_servant said:
It's not an occupation and it's not foreign. The Pals. can leave any time they want to and move to another locale that is just as much a part of their ancestral homeland as the land they are currently occupying is. They could be a part of Israel, with the same rights/responsibilities as any other Israeli citizen if they would push their gov't to do so. They could also be one of the most prosperous nations around if their leadership wasn't stealing the money being sent to help them.

That you can make such a statement in the above is remarkable imo

Denying that there is an Israeli military occupation of Palestinian territories must put you in the tiniest minority view group on the planet. A group so small that it is able to hold its annual Christmas dinner gathering, sat around a table , in the back of a transit van.

By your standard the French should have left France during the Nazi occupation and moved to other European states that were " just as much a part of their ancestral homeland " as France was

I knew I should have put" sensible comments only" in that OP

Palestinian Exceptionalism ? [W:81]

Handsome Pitbull

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Zapatista Libertarian

Handsome Pitbull

Handsome Pitbull

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Handsome Pitbull

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Zapatista Libertarian

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Zapatista Libertarian

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Zapatista Libertarian

Zapatista Libertarian

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Zapatista Libertarian

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Zapatista Libertarian

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Handsome Pitbull