GDP of Palestine could be twice higher without occupation: UN report [W:41]

RetiredUSN · Nov 25, 2016

oneworld2 said:
Which tells me that you have no intention of trying to understand the situation and get uncomfortable when your questions are answered in a way you struggle to deal with.

I expected something different , I was wrong but now I at least know

I am very comfortable with my thoughts.

I matters little to me that you do not want to understand the mindset of the terrorists that rule over the Palestinian civilians.

Your one sided rhetoric speaks volumes in regards to your ignorance on the matter.

justabubba · Nov 25, 2016

Apocalypse said:
They won't let peace exist and they won't let Israel exist peacefully.

get the **** out of their home lands and leave them alone
and just maybe, peace will result

but i can assure you that occupying their country, displacing their people, and denying them freedom will not result in peace in our lifetimes, or for those who follow us

Apocalypse · Nov 25, 2016

justabubba said:
get the **** out of their home lands and leave them alone
and just maybe, peace will result

but i can assure you that occupying their country, displacing their people, and denying them freedom will not result in peace in our lifetimes, or for those who follow us

Peace didn't exist prior to 1967 as well, the occupation of the WB will not cease until they are willing to make peace with Israel.
Israel will continue to defend itself and will continue to exist, neither will ever change.

oneworld2 · Nov 25, 2016

RetiredUSN said:
I am very comfortable with my thoughts.

I matters little to me that you do not want to understand the mindset of the terrorists that rule over the Palestinian civilians.

Your one sided rhetoric speaks volumes in regards to your ignorance on the matter.

Well, at least I can see that there are extremists on both sides without having to ask somebody else to show me that.

oneworld2 · Nov 25, 2016

Apocalypse said:
I don't see what this has to do with who Israel is fighting today.

You don't ?

How come , you are fighting the same people ?

In fact you were fighting with them before the state of Israel ever existed

Because it was never " a land without people "

You're saying it's dead but it's really just as possible as it was in 2008 and before it.

It is dead. The illegal settlements programme has killed it, imo and in the opinion of the majority of Palestinians. As time goes by the rest of the world will catch up and maybe , just maybe , seek to support your worst nightmare , a binational state for both sides with equal rights given to both peoples.

Israel is not a 'military state' whatever that means, it will continue to exist long after we'll all be gone, not recognizing this fact is a major part of the problem.

Of course it's a militaristic state , it was born one and has continued along the same line right up until today. If your only tool is a hammer every problem has to look like a nail hence the constant invasion/wars

States do have a right to exist, actually all states do. That some nations ceased to exist does not change that fact. Palestinians aren't justified in doing that and as I was saying there are actual facts that cannot be ignored, both people have a right to defend themselves but as it stands Israel is the one defending its citizens from Palestinian terrorism and it is these actions of defense that you oppose but they will remain as it is not logical to believe Israel will allow its citizens to be murdered just like that.

That only reflects the disparity in weaponry and has little to do with morality imo. If the Palestinians had the same weapons they would engage in warfare , that they haven't they engage in terrorism. Is this peculiar to the Palestinians ? No

Did the Jews engage in it prior to the birth of the Israeli state. Yes

The Irish against the British etc etc

oneworld2 · Nov 25, 2016

Apocalypse said:
Peace didn't exist prior to 1967 .

That's because of what I keep trying to refer you to, the very start of the conflict and the core issues that have failed to go away. They're as relevant now as they were then and shouldn't be ignored

Apocalypse · Nov 25, 2016

oneworld2 said:
You don't ?

How come , you are fighting the same people ?

In fact you were fighting with them before the state of Israel ever existed

Because it was never " a land without people "

It was. But the point is that Israel is fighting terrorists and terror organizations today.

It is dead. The illegal settlements programme has killed it, imo and in the opinion of the majority of Palestinians. As time goes by the rest of the world will catch up and maybe , just maybe , seek to support your worst nightmare , a binational state for both sides with equal rights given to both peoples.

It really isn't, it's just as viable today as it was in 2008 when Olmert made the offer he did and the Palestinians rejected it. A 'binational state' or the one state solution was never actually a solution, it doesn't solve anything, only two states for two people would, it's not my nightmare because it's not something that is really possible or going to happen, unlike you I much prefer to be dealing with things that are real and actual.

Of course it's a militaristic state , it was born one and has continued along the same line right up until today. If your only tool is a hammer every problem has to look like a nail hence the constant invasion/wars

What is a 'militaristic state', exactly?
When a state is required to defend itself - it most probably would. It's only logical.
The expectation that Israel will alow itself to be destroyed is obviously that which is illogical.

That only reflects the disparity in weaponry and has little to do with morality imo. If the Palestinians had the same weapons they would engage in warfare , that they haven't they engage in terrorism. Is this peculiar to the Palestinians ? No

Did the Jews engage in it prior to the birth of the Israeli state. Yes

The Irish against the British etc etc

We're not playing let's pretend here and I honestly don't think that would have been the case, what we have is what's in front of us and the reality is that Israel is defending itself from terrorism.

Apocalypse · Nov 25, 2016

oneworld2 said:
That's because of what I keep trying to refer you to, the very start of the conflict and the core issues that have failed to go away. They're as relevant now as they were then and shouldn't be ignored

What is the start of the conflict? Palestinian-Arab terrorism goes back to the early 20's of the last century, what do you think should be done so the "very start of the conflict and the core issues that have failed to go away" will not be ignored?

Sardonicus · Nov 25, 2016

justabubba said:
get the **** out of their home lands and leave them alone
and just maybe, peace will result

but i can assure you that occupying their country, displacing their people, and denying them freedom will not result in peace in our lifetimes, or for those who follow us

It has already been pointed out to you that the Palestinians reject all peace offers preferring to instead stick to their sworn genocide of the Jewish people and the destruction of the lone Jewish state on the planet. You pathetically tried to claim that the actual history of peace overtures was not real. And you tried to interject your own fictional take on recorded history. When challenged about your fiction, you preferred to turn tail and run away. Which does not alter history but does make a monkey of you. Now you are back, without addressing your prior fictions, and not surprisingly you are still pushing the same shtick. Only now you are illustrating you don't have a clue about history, you're just anti Israel. Sadly most Palestinian sympathizers I've run into on the internet are as poorly versed in history as you and just as opinionated despite their stunning ignorance about history and the Palestinian's fervent desire to commit genocide. This is a good thing though, because posters like you who can't back up their fictions (and run away when challenged to do so) and who are unable to articulate an intelligent argument are completely unpersuasive.

justabubba · Nov 25, 2016

Sardonicus said:
It has already been pointed out to you that the Palestinians reject all peace offers preferring to instead stick to their sworn genocide of the Jewish people and the destruction of the lone Jewish state on the planet.

the Palestinian people have repeatedly acknowledged israel's right to co-exist. to insist otherwise is to exhibit one's ignorance of history, or worse, one's choice to ignore it

the Palestinians have sat at the negotiation table with the israelis. you keep insisting that it is the Palestinians who refuse to agree to a peace proposal. i keep reminding you that the israelis were always present and also chose to ignore the opportunity to strike an agreement resulting in peace, just like the Palestinians

You pathetically tried to claim that the actual history of peace overtures was not real.

what is not real is that only the Palestinians balked at the opportunity to negotiate a peace agreement

And you tried to interject your own fictional take on recorded history.

prove this allegation or be found to have lied about my characterization of the historical record. prove that my take was fictional

When challenged about your fiction, you preferred to turn tail and run away.

by this post, hopefully you will recognize that no option to run was exercised by me

Which does not alter history but does make a monkey of you.

by your reply - or the lack of it - we will all see who is the actual monkey

Now you are back, without addressing your prior fictions, and not surprisingly you are still pushing the same shtick.

no fiction has been proffered. what you find to be shtick is actually reality. a reality that it appears you would prefer to avoid discussing

Only now you are illustrating you don't have a clue about history, you're just anti Israel.

i am very much an advocate for israel and the israeli people. i admire many aspects about the nation and its people. sadly, i cannot support the israeli government's oppression of the Palestinian people and the occupation of their lands

Sadly most Palestinian sympathizers I've run into on the internet are as poorly versed in history as you and just as opinionated despite their stunning ignorance about history and the Palestinian's fervent desire to commit genocide. This is a good thing though, because posters like you who can't back up their fictions (and run away when challenged to do so) and who are unable to articulate an intelligent argument are completely unpersuasive.

by now, the forum members will be able to recognize for themselves which of us is best able to deal in facts rather than propaganda

Apocalypse · Nov 25, 2016

justabubba said:
the Palestinian people have repeatedly acknowledged israel's right to co-exist. to insist otherwise is to exhibit one's ignorance of history, or worse, one's choice to ignore it

the Palestinians have sat at the negotiation table with the israelis. you keep insisting that it is the Palestinians who refuse to agree to a peace proposal. i keep reminding you that the israelis were always present and also chose to ignore the opportunity to strike an agreement resulting in peace, just like the Palestinians

Sardonicus is absolutely right in calling out your refusal to acknowledge the reality of the Palestinians' approach to the peace talks. They refused to Ehud Barak's proposal without providing an alternative, they did the same with Olmert's proposal, they are right now - and for the last two years - objecting to actually having direct talks for peace with the Israeli side. Israel is calling for direct peace talks and they object.

These are the facts, these are facts that were actually made clear to you - more than one or even a dozen times and that's only by me, so it's clear you deliberately refuse to accept these facts so you can continue and promote that which is not true, that which you wish were the facts but they aren't.

Sardonicus · Nov 25, 2016

justabubba said:
the Palestinian people have repeatedly acknowledged israel's right to co-exist. to insist otherwise is to exhibit one's ignorance of history, or worse, one's choice to ignore it

You could not even get your opening sentence to not indulge justbubba's warped alternate reality. As before, citations please. Rather than running away like you did before, and then coming back but still without a single citation? Try and pretend you are attempting to persuade someone that you are not prevaricating and outright fabricating. When you are not tucking your tail between your legs and running away. We are still waiting for the citations you could not supply earlier, adding more fictional claims on top of those won't persuade anyone you are not prevaricating and fabricating. As I said before, this is a good thing though. Because posters like you who can't back up their fictions and who are unable to articulate an intelligent argument are completely unpersuasive. :roll:

justabubba · Nov 25, 2016

Apocalypse said:
Sardonicus is absolutely right in calling out your refusal to acknowledge the reality of the Palestinians' approach to the peace talks. They refused to Ehud Barak's proposal without providing an alternative, they did the same with Olmert's proposal, they are right now - and for the last two years - objecting to actually having direct talks for peace with the Israeli side. Israel is calling for direct peace talks and they object.

These are the facts, these are facts that were actually made clear to you - more than one or even a dozen times and that's only by me, so it's clear you deliberately refuse to accept these facts so you can continue and promote that which is not true, that which you wish were the facts but they aren't.

when you mention the word 'facts' in your post why did you not further give us the factual explanation for why the Palestinian representatives object to participation in negotiations?

could it be because israel continues to absorb Palestinian lands to expand settlements, by agreeing to suspend settlement construction?

why is that an unreasonable expectation for israel to demonstrate that it truly wants to sit down to negotiate for peace?

Sardonicus · Nov 25, 2016

justabubba said:
when you mention the word 'facts' in your post why did you not further give us the factual explanation for why the Palestinian representatives object to participation in negotiations?

could it be because israel continues to absorb Palestinian lands to expand settlements, by agreeing to suspend settlement construction?

why is that an unreasonable expectation for israel to demonstrate that it truly wants to sit down to negotiate for peace?

It's like watching an obtuse chocho train just chug along with big blinders over the engine cab windows. And of course we are right back to your basic fiction again: that it is Palestine that has repeatedly made peace offers and overtures to Israel, basically the opposite of reality. If this had happened, many times as you say, it would be a truly historic event of global proportions. So as with all your other repeated specious claims, citations please.:roll:

Apocalypse · Nov 25, 2016

justabubba said:
when you mention the word 'facts' in your post why did you not further give us the factual explanation for why the Palestinian representatives object to participation in negotiations?

could it be because israel continues to absorb Palestinian lands to expand settlements, by agreeing to suspend settlement construction?

why is that an unreasonable expectation for israel to demonstrate that it truly wants to sit down to negotiate for peace?

Do notice how you've went from denying the facts that the Palestinians are objecting to peace to giving excuses for why they are doing so.
This is not the first or hundredth time you do so.

Anyhow, no, it isn't a reasonable expectation as the fate of the settlements - as well as all other issues - will be decided in the negotiations table. That was already made clear to you more than a dozen times by myself alone. Refusing to even engage in peace talks wouldn't achieve anything will it? After all the fact that they refuse to negotiate for peace doesn't stop houses from being built within these settlements. Unless you believe it would, if you think so you should also be able to say how is it that you think it will achieve something, and why you believe that by objecting to peace talks they will promote anything. I'll be waiting.

Sardonicus · Nov 25, 2016

Apocalypse said:
Do notice how you've went from denying the facts that the Palestinians are objecting to peace to giving excuses for why they are doing so.
This is not the first or hundredth time you do so.

Anyhow, no, it isn't a reasonable expectation as the fate of the settlements - as well as all other issues - will be decided in the negotiations table. That was already made clear to you more than a dozen times by myself alone. Refusing to even engage in peace talks wouldn't achieve anything will it? After all the fact that they refuse to negotiate for peace doesn't stop houses from being built within these settlements. Unless you believe it would, if you think so you should also be able to say how is it that you think it will achieve something, and why you believe that by objecting to peace talks they will promote anything. I'll be waiting.

This would be pretty comical if it were not so disturbing. Your comment that this is a long standing issue with him explains the basic disconnect between our real world events and those from justbubba's alternate universe. Where HAMAS and the Palestinian people have "repeatedly" acknowledged Israel's right to exist and where the same have made "repeated" peace offers and overtures to the Israeli people and state! :screwy

oneworld2 · Nov 25, 2016

Apocalypse said:
It was.

No it wasn't and that's why you are still fighting these people today and will be for the next 70 years and more

It really isn't, it's just as viable today as it was in 2008 when Olmert made the offer he did and the Palestinians rejected it. A 'binational state' or the one state solution was never actually a solution, it doesn't solve anything, only two states for two people would, it's not my nightmare because it's not something that is really possible or going to happen, unlike you I much prefer to be dealing with things that are real and actual.

Nope its dead and what you are trying to force through is not a just resolution but a forced situation whereby the Palestinian self determination is nothing of the sort. As Danny Rubenstein stated...... the autonomy POWs have if you promise not to interfere with what they want to cook themselves for dinner.

That won't work and that's why it would never be accepted by the Palestinians

What is a 'militaristic state', exactly?
When a state is required to defend itself - it most probably would. It's only logical.
The expectation that Israel will alow itself to be destroyed is obviously that which is illogical.

Think militarisation... the way a people prepare their society for war and violence and you will see what I mean. As I said, the Jewish people of mandate Palestine by the time the British decided to call it a day had fully prepared their society for war and violence and they have never let up since because they , as was said at the time , wanted much more than the partition plan land.

I never claimed Israel would allow itself to be destroyed I said that these sort of militaristic states eventual destroy themselves imo

We're not playing let's pretend here and I honestly don't think that would have been the case, what we have is what's in front of us and the reality is that Israel is defending itself from terrorism.

So what you are really saying is that you don't want to see people applying the same standards to Palestinians that they apply to everyone else . That they are terrorists by DNA or something. What Israel is defending itself from is the resistance from the Palestinian peoples reaction to their enforced dispossession and displacement and their continuous treatment as unpeople

ecofarm · Nov 25, 2016

Goshin said:
That's one way of looking at it. Another is that when they had a chance to vote, they chose Hamas to lead them. I lost most of my sympathy at that point.

That's not fair. The extent of Hamas' domination of the area (via terrorism) was illustrated when Hamas slaughtered Fatah in the streets. The election rivals Hussein's 99%s mockery of democracy. It makes Chavez's purchase of media and energy infrastructure look like nothing.

Apocalypse · Nov 25, 2016

oneworld2 said:
No it wasn't and that's why you are still fighting these people today and will be for the next 70 years and more

No, Israel doesn't fight "the people" it fights terrorists, specifically those who attempt to target its citizens for murder.
The fact that the land had no people claiming it when the Zionist movement had begun with its work towards establishing the state of Israel is irrelevant to that.

Nope its dead and what you are trying to force through is not a just resolution but a forced situation whereby the Palestinian self determination is nothing of the sort. As Danny Rubenstein stated...... the autonomy POWs have if you promise not to interfere with what they want to cook themselves for dinner.

The two states solution is the only available solution, you may claim it is dead but it really isn't as not much changed on the ground since the 2008 proposal, what you promote is neither 'just' nor an actual resolution as was already explained to you.

That won't work and that's why it would never be accepted by the Palestinians

What wouldn't? The two-states solution?

Think militarisation... the way a people prepare their society for war and violence and you will see what I mean. As I said, the Jewish people of mandate Palestine by the time the British decided to call it a day had fully prepared their society for war and violence and they have never let up since because they , as was said at the time , wanted much more than the partition plan land.

I asked what is it that you consider a militaristic state how did you get to talking about what you believe the Jewish people wanted as a united body before the partition plan was accepted back in 1947? The Jews have prepared themselves to defend their nation, and so they did when it was attacked.

I never claimed Israel would allow itself to be destroyed I said that these sort of militaristic states eventual destroy themselves imo

Well Israel is clearly not going anywhere.

So what you are really saying is that you don't want to see people applying the same standards to Palestinians that they apply to everyone else . That they are terrorists by DNA or something. What Israel is defending itself from is the resistance from the Palestinian peoples reaction to their enforced dispossession and displacement and their continuous treatment as unpeople

That is yet another strawman argument. It's nice you already recognized you've engaged in one earlier but that doesn't mean you should keep doing so, it's ridiculous and shows how the side that opposes you is the one that is right since that side doesn't need to twist words and make accusations like the one you've made here to make its point. Israel is defending itself from terrorism, if you wish to call acts of murder motivated by religious beliefs "resistance" you're free to do so but it wouldn't make these asinine acts less asinine and wouldn't make Israel less just in defending its citizens from those who are behind them. Israel will continue to defend itself from these acts of terrorism and from those terrorists and terror organizations and will always do so.

oneworld2 · Nov 25, 2016

ecofarm said:
That's not fair. The extent of Hamas' domination of the area (via terrorism) was illustrated when Hamas slaughtered Fatah in the streets. The election rivals Hussein's 99%s mockery of democracy. It makes Chavez's purchase of media and energy infrastructure look like nothing.

According to the international monitors the only serious criticisms of the elections was massive Israeli interference in them.

And Hamas' " slaughtering of Fatah " was the result of Fatahs collusion with the US in a plan to oust them because they had lost the election .

The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair

BTW have those black people in Florida been allowed their right to vote again

oneworld2 · Nov 25, 2016

Apocalypse said:
No, Israel doesn't fight "the people" it fights terrorists, specifically those who attempt to target its citizens for murder.
The fact that the land had no people claiming it when the Zionist movement had begun with its work towards establishing the state of Israel is irrelevant to that.

Of course Israelis fight the Palestinian people , they have to because the Palestinians ( not surprisingly ) react to their ongoing displacement/dispossession/occupation/brutalisation at the hands of the Jewish Israelis. That some of these people use terrorism as a weapon with which to fight back doesn't change any of the above

The second sentence is hysterical. The Palestinians didn't claim the land because they took it as a given that it was theirs , in the same way Americans or Russians do in Russia and America. It was the European immigrant Jews that had to " claim " stuff precisely because they had lived elsewhere for as long as they could trace their ancestry.

Have you any idea how creepy your view is ?

The two states solution is the only available solution, you may claim it is dead but it really isn't as not much changed on the ground since the 2008 proposal, what you promote is neither 'just' nor an actual resolution as was already explained to you.

What I suggest is completely fair , what you suggest isn't.

You aren't bothered about what the Palestinian self determination actually consists of. You just appear to think that whatever the Israelis decide to give them is , or should be , enough to keep them quiet. That's what living in that type of society does for you . It's the same mentality of the old colonialist from Europe in the 1700s. Be sure , if you stitch them up with a bum deal that their leaderships have consented to the fighting will continue

I asked what is it that you consider a militaristic state how did you get to talking about what you believe the Jewish people wanted as a united body before the partition plan was accepted back in 1947? The Jews have prepared themselves to defend their nation, and so they did when it was attacked.

That's my point. That the Jewish nation was born with a militarist/ colonialist society and history documents that that has continued right up to this present day

That is yet another strawman argument. It's nice you already recognized you've engaged in one earlier but that doesn't mean you should keep doing so, it's ridiculous and shows how the side that opposes you is the one that is right since that side doesn't need to twist words and make accusations like the one you've made here to make its point. Israel is defending itself from terrorism, if you wish to call acts of murder motivated by religious beliefs "resistance" you're free to do so but it wouldn't make these asinine acts less asinine and wouldn't make Israel less just in defending its citizens from those who are behind them. Israel will continue to defend itself from these acts of terrorism and from those terrorists and terror organizations and will always do so.

I think it's a fair point I am making

The disparity in the military capacities of the sides is relevant to the resort to terrorism. imo

I gave the examples of Jews that had resorted to terrorism and Irish people that had resorted to terrorism.

If the boot where on the other foot and it was Jewish people suffering what the Palestinians are suffering and have been suffering since an alien ideology and people decided they had the right to displace and dispossess you would be calling them brave freedom fighters

Why do you have such an aversion to anyone treating the same as any other people ?

Apocalypse · Nov 25, 2016

oneworld2 said:
Of course Israelis fight the Palestinian people , they have to because the Palestinians ( not surprisingly ) react to their ongoing displacement/dispossession/occupation/brutalisation at the hands of the Jewish Israelis. That some of these people use terrorism as a weapon with which to fight back doesn't change any of the above

No matter how many times you will choose to present it as such the reality in which Israel fights terrorists and terror groups will not change.

The second sentence is hysterical. The Palestinians didn't claim the land because they took it as a given that it was theirs , in the same way Americans or Russians do in Russia and America.

The US is controlled by Americans and Russia by Russians, it is indeed hysterical that you fail to see the difference and it reveals yet again your ignorance that is the basis for your positions. It should be noted you are drifting here as nothing was said regarding that topic before you brought it up unnecessarily perhaps deliberately to drift away from what was being discussed - the fact that Israel defends itself from terrorism.

Have you any idea how creepy your view is ?

Creepy? It's not my position, it's a given fact of history, it's nice to see how easily you just decide to dismiss such facts as you do in all of your posts, your position requires the denial of both reality and history.

What I suggest is completely fair , what you suggest isn't.

You aren't bothered about what the Palestinian self determination actually consists of. You just appear to think that whatever the Israelis decide to give them is , or should be , enough to keep them quiet. That's what living in that type of society does for you . It's the same mentality of the old colonialist from Europe in the 1700s. Be sure , if you stitch them up with a bum deal that their leaderships have consented to the fighting will continue

What does any of this has to do with the fact I support the two-states solution? I live in a free society and I'm hardly the subject discussed here, it seems like your recognition that you're advocating for the wrong and immoral position is what causes you to attempt and go after me instead of actually answering the arguments that present your position as wrong and immoral, it always seems to happen eventually.

By the way I could swear you said several times you support the two-states solution, hilarious.

That's my point. That the Jewish nation was born with a militarist/ colonialist society and history documents that that has continued right up to this present day

Colonialism requires controlling a mother nation that is expanded and the Jews had none other than their own homeland of course. The society in Israel is a Western democratic one that believes it has the right to protect itself when terrorists target its members for murder, hence why Israel will continue to defend itself and won't allow itself to be destroyed as some call for it to do.

I think it's a fair point I am making

I strongly disagree, it was a clear strawman argument, hardly the first as you yourself recognized. Telling people that they believe something they haven't advocated anywhere such as your "DNA" remark is clearly a sad and desperate attempt to avoid actual discussion.

The disparity in the military capacities of the sides is relevant to the resort to terrorism. imo

I gave the examples of Jews that had resorted to terrorism and Irish people that had resorted to terrorism.

If the boot where on the other foot and it was Jewish people suffering what the Palestinians are suffering and have been suffering since an alien ideology and people decided they had the right to displace and dispossess you would be calling them brave freedom fighters

Why do you have such an aversion to anyone treating the same as any other people ?

First of all terrorism is always wrong and never was justified no matter who was behind the act, it isn't justified now as well and just as it never could be "acts of resistance" as they were targeting innocent people they aren't now as well. Secondly there's never been such a mainstream acceptance of terrorism as far as I know, not by anything close to that scale and that brutality, and regardless the entire discussion around that point is irrelevant, we discuss on what's in front of us not what could be, they engage in terrorism and Israel has a right to defend its citizens from such attacks. Not recognizing it when given so many opportunities to do so really shows the kind of logic that can lead to holding such wrong and immoral positions.

DA60 · Nov 25, 2016

Goshin said:
That's one way of looking at it. Another is that when they had a chance to vote, they chose Hamas to lead them. I lost most of my sympathy at that point.

One...the Palestinians are divided into TWO areas - the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Most live in the former (2.8M to 1.8M).

Hamas NEVER (to my knowledge) ruled over the West Bank and therefore was never the choice of most Palestinians.

And since mid 2014, it does not even rule over the Gaza Strip any longer as the unity government is now back in place. It participates in the Unity Government..but it no longer 'runs' the Gaza Strip.

So, your loss of sympathy for those that voted for Hamas does not apply to most Palestinians as most did not vote for them.

Sardonicus · Nov 25, 2016

oneworld2 said:
Why do you people always have to resort to hyperbole and verbal assaults ?

Have you so little faith in your own knowledge and argument that this is just the knee jerk reaction to any that hold a different opinion ?

Just debate peoples points without feeling the need to try to insult them , if you can that is.

The whole framework of the " peace offers " coming from the Israeli side is skewed and they are not an attempt at a just resolution.

If you are so sure that " people don't know what they are talking about " you would engage them without the need for hyperbole and insult. To me that's just a ploy so they don't tend to elaborate on the points they make

You'll excuse me for missing this irrelevant dissemblance from earlier. Never mind that as you side step direct debate of your so called points, you spam us with hackish basic internet meh-ness and *pictures* that are supposed to articulate so called intelligent points you can't. When one can't articulate an intelligent reply to direct challenges, one only makes a money of oneself. In the real world and here on the internet. So you and justbubba both enjoy the alternate reality of the world where the poor put upon Palestinians are not a victim of their own idiotic genocidal dogma. In the comic books and a great sit-com of the 1990's this was commonly known as the Bizzaro universe. Not that you have a clue. :2no4:

Serenity · Nov 26, 2016

Moderator's Warning:

There's a mod warning in place that has been ignored and thread is now closed for review and for mod action to be issued to those in breach of ML.

GDP of Palestine could be twice higher without occupation: UN report [W:41]

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