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Erdogan Threatens EU

Rexedgar said:
Wasn t Constantinople once considered the bridge between Europe and Asia? Hence the waffle on the sub-forum choice.....

What s the thought behind this threat?

Erdogan threatens to flood Europe with 3.6 million refugees as Syria offensive forces tens of thousands to flee | The Independent
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Rexedgar:

Erdogan does not want interference in expanding his buffer zone in Northern Syria from 3km depth to approximately 20 km depth and Europe is most likely to be the source of that interference. Europe will be even more likely to bristle when Erdogan begins ethnicly cleansing militant Syrian Kurds away from this zone and begins to settle millions of Arab refugees now living in Turkey into the 20 km zone. The Turkish army seized Arab towns without much damage being done first as bases of operations while its artillery and air force pounded Kurdish towns and strong points. The plan is to clear the towns and villages of Kurds and then to resettle Syrian Arab refugees from Turkey into these abandoned towns and villages. Ethnic cleansing with a cynical humanitarian twist - the resettlement of refugees into their home country, even if they are still internally displaced.

The refugee flood threat is a clear message to Europe and the UN not to thwart Turkey's plans in Syria because if Kurdish Syrian towns in the 20km belt cannot be emptied of Kurds and filled with these Arab refugees, then European towns and cities will be forced to host both Arabs and Kurds driven from the area.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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Rexedgar said:
Wasn t Constantinople once considered the bridge between Europe and Asia? Hence the waffle on the sub-forum choice.....

What s the thought behind this threat?

Erdogan threatens to flood Europe with 3.6 million refugees as Syria offensive forces tens of thousands to flee | The Independent
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No problem, Merkel welcomes anyone.
At best 10m or more.
Who cares for opinion of native Germans, they have not any real mechanism to change anything.
Everybody opposes it can be branded as racist, Nazi, AFD - sympathizer , thrown behind bar, lose the job or be murdered by antifa.
Germany fights against Rights!
 
Alfons said:
No problem, Merkel welcomes anyone.
At best 10m or more.
Who cares for opinion of native Germans, they have not any real mechanism to change anything.
Everybody opposes it can be branded as racist, Nazi, AFD - sympathizer , thrown behind bar, lose the job or be murdered by antifa.
Germany fights against Rights!
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you are talking hard nonsense *one of the native Germans you fight for*
 
To be honest, President Erdogan's threat will definitely get Europe's attention.

The last decade has been very unpleasant for Europe.

It doesn't need more headaches.
 
german hick said:
another one to tell me I´m islamized and don´t know it myself because of our bad press?
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Unless you're in Hannover, then I'd say you were Vietnamized...Many more Hmong I seen than anyone.

Are you another one who thinks living there makes you the only one that "knows"? Being a native ends the discussion?

and if you want to go this route -- would it be the first time Germans were duped by their government and Lügenpresse? :naughty


I haven't made it over to the west end of Germany yet, (or South, hoping for trip around Christmas) maybe it's different, probably, with it's more Americanized influence but; in Saxony, Thuringia, and Hesse and least as far west as Bad Hersfeld, I know they're not "Islamized" and from what I seen and heard, they don't want to be. Not even a little bit.

So, we have you on one hand, a person on the internet saying they're from Germany telling me one thing, and on the other hand I have real life experience, conversing with locals, talking with people, seeing with my own two eyes and hearing with my own two ears something entirely different when I was in Germany last not more than 5 months ago -- who am I to believe? :think: (Obviously, I'm going past the current discussion here and speaking to your overall expressed opinions I've seen on this site)

I'm not saying you're misrepresenting yourself, but I am saying if you are genuine, than your views are definitely not the prevailing ones I've come across in my experience. That's not to say my experience is indicative of a universal sentiment but my opinions were certainly shared by the majority of people I met.

I traveled a good portion of Germany, and not just the touristy big cities, and not just on the A, but drove deep into its heartland -- taking the local roads, hitting the little villages that dot the landscape. Laughing at the bus stops in those little villages, perplexed at how traveling by that means works, seeming in the middle of nowhere...Visiting the little village my family came from. Still I imagine it the same size as it was 166 years ago. Seeing family names in the cemetery, after all this time, after all that's transpired...Just really amazing...and I want my progeny to return 166 from now and see the very same thing.

Germany is a land I could only describe as being majestic., why on earth would you want to give any of it away, even just a little? They certainly aren't worthy of it.
 
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ChezC3 said:
~...................That's not to say my experience is indicative of a universal sentiment but my opinions were certainly shared by the majority of people I met...............~
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...and there, laudatio upon your expression of self-awareness, lies the crux of what most any of us suffer.

Where I've worked (and subsequently lived) in the country for round about two decades and travelled it to all points of the compass, I still cannot claim to speak for all and everyone there. A further complicating factor by now resting in the fact that my "finger on the pulse" is meanwhile confined to numerous German friends and other contacts, BUT from afar (Spain) and thus, being somewhat second-hand, providing no substitute for personal experience.

Nevertheless I see those opinions (beliefs, attitudes, whatever) that I can gather reflected in the way the whole country votes.

Now were I to confine myself to opinions from the East (yes, I know people there too), I'd probably confirm your experience at least inasmuch as there being a greater percentage over there that is critical of the whole political class.

With "greater percentage" however not making for a majority even then and there.

As an anecdote and thus far from providing evidence: one thing that appeared to confound the AfD leaning Easterners that I met even before the AfD was even a thing, was their almost comical helplessness when challenged to explain how migrants were out-populating them when their geographical areas held the lowest number of migrants in the whole Republic. The most pathetic explanation offered by one of them consisting of "Westerners" like myself having had better training in rhetoric than the average Easterner was ever afforded the privilege to pursue. When I explained this leap of logic to my (only) English speaking companion in his tongue, that clinched the matter of course. Perfidious Albion at work once again.

But, comical relief aside, there's plenty for "Easterners" to gripe over and plenty of it is down to Berlin. But blaming it all on migrants and expecting all solutions to arise from deporting the whole lot, is going to be about as effective as having blamed Germany's economic pains on the Jews in the 20s and 30s.

As an aside, if you ever make it to the Western part, I recommend Duisburg and the surrounding Ruhr area. So many Turks there (and from way before 2015), there should be no problem in having one's prejudices confirmed. Funnily enough though, in the recent European election the AfD managed just around 8 pct. That's probably a sign of how Islamized the whole area is by now.:mrgreen:
 
Chagos said:
...and there, laudatio upon your expression of self-awareness, lies the crux of what most any of us suffer.

Where I've worked (and subsequently lived) in the country for round about two decades and travelled it to all points of the compass, I still cannot claim to speak for all and everyone there. A further complicating factor by now resting in the fact that my "finger on the pulse" is meanwhile confined to numerous German friends and other contacts, BUT from afar (Spain) and thus, being somewhat second-hand, providing no substitute for personal experience.

Nevertheless I see those opinions (beliefs, attitudes, whatever) that I can gather reflected in the way the whole country votes.

Now were I to confine myself to opinions from the East (yes, I know people there too), I'd probably confirm your experience at least inasmuch as there being a greater percentage over there that is critical of the whole political class.

With "greater percentage" however not making for a majority even then and there.

As an anecdote and thus far from providing evidence: one thing that appeared to confound the AfD leaning Easterners that I met even before the AfD was even a thing, was their almost comical helplessness when challenged to explain how migrants were out-populating them when their geographical areas held the lowest number of migrants in the whole Republic. The most pathetic explanation offered by one of them consisting of "Westerners" like myself having had better training in rhetoric than the average Easterner was ever afforded the privilege to pursue. When I explained this leap of logic to my (only) English speaking companion in his tongue, that clinched the matter of course. Perfidious Albion at work once again.

But, comical relief aside, there's plenty for "Easterners" to gripe over and plenty of it is down to Berlin. But blaming it all on migrants and expecting all solutions to arise from deporting the whole lot, is going to be about as effective as having blamed Germany's economic pains on the Jews in the 20s and 30s.

As an aside, if you ever make it to the Western part, I recommend Duisburg and the surrounding Ruhr area. So many Turks there (and from way before 2015), there should be no problem in having one's prejudices confirmed. Funnily enough though, in the recent European election the AfD managed just around 8 pct. That's probably a sign of how Islamized the whole area is by now.:mrgreen:
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The problem I see (with looking at the vote, though it is a good place to start) and I admit, my German is nicht sehr gut, is that the Press does have a hand in skewing the public's opinion. The paper's I struggle through and the DW I view with ease all have a common theme to them -- "Far Right Neo Nazi's killing the Other" and "Poor, helpless, needy, struggling heartbroken hard working studying their grammar every night migrants just wanting a better world for themselves and their children" :roll:

You combine that with the constant reminder of the national tragedy that was the Third Reich, the constant reminding of blood on their hands that never washes off and you can see how some people who might not exactly want a bunch of foreigners would be hesitant to show support for those who the Press has deemed verboten. I'm hyperbolizing in my normal fashion here, but when you draw the lens back far enough, that pretty much sums it up.

Now, of course we are seeing a polarizing of either far left or far right voting patterns gaining steam with centrist parties losing ground. I believe the last three regional elections turned out as such. So the people are coming around.

The conversation you relayed about the geographic populations and how can they explain themselves is a simple answer that's hard for them to say -- Even one is too many. It doesn't matter the size that's been planted there. They just don't want them. I don't think it is helpful to brush aside the fact that those small populations are also being placed in older, low birthrate areas. In a generation of two, the demographics will have changed and it will be as they protest it is now, they'll be over ran.

As for Duisburg, thank you for the suggestion, but I will take a pass. If I want to see Turks, I'll either go to Turkey, or just look at my wife...(Wife is actually Sicilian with Greek and Turkish heritage, but for the point I was making....)
 
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