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US policy drives Russia, China together ahead of summit

theliq said:
Your comment borders the Cretinous and is a Complete LIE
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Obviously you didn't read history books in High School and don't watch FOX News.

PS - It's time to upgrade your sarcasm detector.

PPS - It is 100% factually correct, as well as being technically accurate, to maintain that the US did NOT "lose the Vietnam War". The US and both halves of Vietnam reached a negotiated settlement of the issue that left Vietnam divided between north and south and the US withdrew its forces from a war that had been resolved. The people that "lost" the Vietnam War were the people who were running the RVN after the PRVN attacked the RVN in a completely separate war AFTER the Vietnam War had ended. NO American forces surrendered to the PRVN forces after the RVN collapsed - which is what would have happened if the US had still been involved in a war in Vietnam at the time.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Lol oh really bud? Because Saddam did have WMDs---he used them against the Kurds, for instance.
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Did you know that there is a difference between "had" and "has"?

At the time of the American invasion and conquest of Iraq, the US government was going with "Iraq HAS vast stockpiles of WMD, and we know where they ARE hidden.".

While that MIGHT have been a sufficiency of a reason (if it were true), going with "Iraq USED TO HAVE vast stockpiles of WMD, and we USED TO KNOW where they WERE located, but we don't know if Iraq STILL has any and we also DO NOT know where they are NOW." doesn't quite pass muster.

Tigerace117 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack

And no matter how much you shriek and wail and go into hysterics.....it doesn't change reality.

Learn some history before you try posting again.
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What you might find interesting is "US Lying about Halabja: Justifying the Invasion of Iraq" Economic and Political Weekly - Vol. 42, No. 36 (Sep. 8 - 14, 2007), pp. 3625-3632 (8 pages) [although I highly doubt that you will bother to read it].


[My apologies for providing a link that actually requires you to do something before you can access the content, but the direct link requires you to pay money for a subscription.]
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Did you know that there is a difference between "had" and "has"?

At the time of the American invasion and conquest of Iraq, the US government was going with "Iraq HAS vast stockpiles of WMD, and we know where they ARE hidden.".

While that MIGHT have been a sufficiency of a reason (if it were true), going with "Iraq USED TO HAVE vast stockpiles of WMD, and we USED TO KNOW where they WERE located, but we don't know if Iraq STILL has any and we also DO NOT know where they are NOW." doesn't quite pass muster.



What you might find interesting is "US Lying about Halabja: Justifying the Invasion of Iraq" Economic and Political Weekly - Vol. 42, No. 36 (Sep. 8 - 14, 2007), pp. 3625-3632 (8 pages) [although I highly doubt that you will bother to read it].


[My apologies for providing a link that actually requires you to do something before you can access the content, but the direct link requires you to pay money for a subscription.]
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Wow, even for you that’s a weak defense.

Georges Sada stated the Iraqi Air Force moved their chemical weapons to Syria because they knew use of said weapons would mean Baghdad would go up in smoke.

Which, of course, is different from the posters’ claims that the US created the Sunni-Shi’a divide and promoted the gassing of Kurds, amongnst many others.

Your source is nothing more than partisan hackery. Whining about Israel is not a justification for Saddam’s actions, and especially telling given the claim that “Iraq has always favored a just peace—-a hilariously false statement. Your source conveniently ignores the increasing radicalization of Saddam’s regime—- for example, the ties between members of his secret police and various later terrorist groups as well as the Fedayeen.

Your source claims “Iraq was not a credible military threat to its neighbors” but this is patently untrue; the Republican Guard shock troops remained formidable, at least by Middle Eastern standards, and while it suffered from the common flaws of Arab armies, the Iraqi Army was still as a whole capable of posing a threat.

To make matters even more laughable, your source uses Saddam’s other atrocities to whine about Halabja(why oh why doesn’t the US care about the other people who got murdered?) fawns over Saddam’s supposed leniency towards the Kurds(he even let them calling Kurdish places by Kurdish names! How wonderful! :roll:)

It then goes on to try to blame the Kurds for the atrocities Saddam inflicted on them.

In short, it is typical of your sources—-ignorant, driven by anti Americanism, and totally inaccurate.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Wow, even for you that’s a weak defense.

Georges Sada stated the Iraqi Air Force moved their chemical weapons to Syria because they knew use of said weapons would mean Baghdad would go up in smoke.
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Ask me if I'm surprised that you didn't actually read the article that I provided the link to - go ahead, ask me.

Did you know that the US Institute of Strategic Studies also concluded that it was the Iranians, NOT the Iraqis that were responsible for Halabja?

Of course you didn't.

Tigerace117 said:
Which, of course, is different from the posters’ claims that the US created the Sunni-Shi’a divide and promoted the gassing of Kurds, amongnst many others.
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Did you know that the US government was the main supporter of the Iraqi government (headed by Saddam Hussein) at the time of the incidents?

Tigerace117 said:
Your source is nothing more than partisan hackery.
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Says the person who didn't read the article.

Tigerace117 said:
Whining about Israel is not a justification for Saddam’s actions, and especially telling given the claim that “Iraq has always favored a just peace—-a hilariously false statement. Your source conveniently ignores the increasing radicalization of Saddam’s regime—- for example, the ties between members of his secret police and various later terrorist groups as well as the Fedayeen.
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Partisan hackery much?

Tigerace117 said:
Your source claims “Iraq was not a credible military threat to its neighbors” but this is patently untrue; the Republican Guard shock troops remained formidable, at least by Middle Eastern standards, and while it suffered from the common flaws of Arab armies, the Iraqi Army was still as a whole capable of posing a threat.
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So your position would be that the US is a "credible military threat to its neighbours" would it?

Tigerace117 said:
It then goes on to try to blame the Kurds for the atrocities Saddam inflicted on them.
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Since one of the key positions of the Kurds was the dismemberment of Iraq, I have absolutely no idea why the Iraqi government would oppose the Kurds.

Tigerace117 said:
In short, it is typical of your sources—-ignorant, driven by anti Americanism, and totally inaccurate.
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Says the person who didn't actually read the article linked to.

PS - Just to preclude your expected response, I did NOT approve of Saddam Hussein and most certainly would not have had a member of my cabinet shaking his hand.
 
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Hawkeye10 said:
I have been trying to tell people that Russia and China have teamed up for several years now, with me getting abused in the process.....seems that a few others are beginning to catch on.

What is really interesting is India....if they join up Americas ride to the bottom is going to be quick.

Europe could make a deal and sort of save themselves.

Not much will be on offer to us.

SAD
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Dont worry

Donald Trump will drive India away
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Ask me if I'm surprised that you didn't actually read the article that I provided the link to - go ahead, ask me.

Did you know that the US Institute of Strategic Studies also concluded that it was the Iranians, NOT the Iraqis that were responsible for Halabja?

Of course you didn't.



Did you know that the US government was the main supporter of the Iraqi government (headed by Saddam Hussein) at the time of the incidents?



Says the person who didn't read the article.



Partisan hackery much?



So your position would be that the US is a "credible military threat to its neighbours" would it?



Since one of the key positions of the Kurds was the dismemberment of Iraq, I have absolutely no idea why the Iraqi government would oppose the Kurds.



Says the person who didn't actually read the article linked to.
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And yet, I extensively address the claims made in your source.....despite supposedly not having read it. Gee, I wonder how that's possible. Maybe I'm psychic?

Except for the fact that the claims that Iran was responsible are inaccurate, and that there has never been any confirmed reports that Iran also used chemical weapons in the Iran-Iraq, since their capabilities at the time were exceptionally limited.

"In 2001, Jean Pascal Zanders of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI)'s Chemical and Biological Warfare Project also dismissed the allegations, arguing that "The coloring of the victims is more suggestive of sarin, which was in Iraq's arsenal."[40] Leo Casey, writing in Dissent Magazine in 2003, observed that Pelletiere's analysis was based solely on images and testimony of blue discolorations and ignored all other evidence—including the recollections of hundreds of Kurdish witnesses; academic studies based on medical examinations, soil samples, and autopsies; and captured Iraqi government documents—proving Iraqi culpability.[29]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack#Allegations_of_Iranian_involvement

Did you know that your statement is laughably untrue given that the Iraqi military was armed with Soviet and French equipment? Your claims that the US was "Saddam's main backer" is a laughable joke; if that were true, Saddam would have been using AH-1 Cobras rather than Mi-24 Hinds.

Again, I extensively addressed all of the main claims made by your source.

Not in the slightest, and your desperation is showing. Saddam Hussein was never interested in a "just peace" in Israel or anywhere else.

Please provide your evidence of the US planning to annex any of it's neighbors, just for starters. Trying to equate the US with Saddam's Iraq is idiotic.

It is truly pathetic that you are trying to blame the innocent people who got gassed for the atrocity inflicted on them.

But for some reason I'm not surprised.

I addressed all the main claims. You responded with desperation and attempted to blame the victims.

Ooooh I'm apparently psychic ooooooh:roll:
 
beerftw said:
The war games part is troubling, not because they are holding them but the massive size, so far the total given is about 300,000 russian soldiers, 3600 chinese soldiers, 36,000 tanks and armored vehicles, around 1k aircraft, and 80 naval vessals. Nato has billed it as preparation for a massive scale conflict, russia has billed it as preperation for defense, and some chinese officials have called it preperation for ww3 which they feel will happen by 2020. Who is right heck would I know, russia will not state everything it knows, and china just has some officials saying stuff, with no official statements endorsed by the chinese military.

Either way it is pretty much the largest training even russia has held since zapad 81 under the soviet union and possible the largest military training even in the history of mankind, not something to easily ignore.
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It's a joke regardless of possibly being the largest of all time. The Chinese trust the Russians about as much as liberals do during elections.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Wow, even for you that’s a weak defense.

Georges Sada stated the Iraqi Air Force moved their chemical weapons to Syria because they knew use of said weapons would mean Baghdad would go up in smoke.

Which, of course, is different from the posters’ claims that the US created the Sunni-Shi’a divide and promoted the gassing of Kurds, amongnst many others.

Your source is nothing more than partisan hackery. Whining about Israel is not a justification for Saddam’s actions, and especially telling given the claim that “Iraq has always favored a just peace—-a hilariously false statement. Your source conveniently ignores the increasing radicalization of Saddam’s regime—- for example, the ties between members of his secret police and various later terrorist groups as well as the Fedayeen.

Your source claims “Iraq was not a credible military threat to its neighbors” but this is patently untrue; the Republican Guard shock troops remained formidable, at least by Middle Eastern standards, and while it suffered from the common flaws of Arab armies, the Iraqi Army was still as a whole capable of posing a threat.

To make matters even more laughable, your source uses Saddam’s other atrocities to whine about Halabja(why oh why doesn’t the US care about the other people who got murdered?) fawns over Saddam’s supposed leniency towards the Kurds(he even let them calling Kurdish places by Kurdish names! How wonderful! :roll:)

It then goes on to try to blame the Kurds for the atrocities Saddam inflicted on them.

In short, it is typical of your sources—-ignorant, driven by anti Americanism, and totally inaccurate.
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Parts of your prose are completely inaccurate...the gassing of the Kurds wars years before Iraq 2 and with Tassid Approval by Rumsfeld(That Dog)and Americans

and STOP claiming all this Anti-American ****,when someone is differing from your opinion

The US invaded a Soveriegn Nation Illegally on the most ridiculous claims(which most thinking people thought was complete BULL**** at the time and proved to be correct)

Your "Fireworks Show" at the invasion may have delighted the American Prime Time TV audiances sic but Murdered and Maimed hundreds of thousands...2BContinued
 
theliq said:
Parts of your prose are completely inaccurate...the gassing of the Kurds wars years before Iraq 2 and with Tassid Approval by Rumsfeld(That Dog)and Americans

and STOP claiming all this Anti-American ****,when someone is differing from your opinion

The US invaded a Soveriegn Nation Illegally on the most ridiculous claims(which most thinking people thought was complete BULL**** at the time and proved to be correct)

Your "Fireworks Show" at the invasion may have delighted the American Prime Time TV audiances sic but Murdered and Maimed hundreds of thousands...2BContinued
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Again...... do you have any proof for your claims? You can't just declare something like "the US approved of the gassing of the Kurds"; you have to have actual proof to back up your allegations.

Lol except I've literally just shown that it 1) wasn't a "ridiculous premise and 2) wasn't bull****. You responded to that by throwing a hissy fit.

Th excuses you have made in this thread for Saddam are downright laughable
 
you are completely correct hawkeye...ignore the lemmings,they are about to fall over the cliff...steve
 
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Tigerace117 said:
Again...... do you have any proof for your claims? You can't just declare something like "the US approved of the gassing of the Kurds"; you have to have actual proof to back up your allegations.

Lol except I've literally just shown that it 1) wasn't a "ridiculous premise and 2) wasn't bull****. You responded to that by throwing a hissy fit.

Th excuses you have made in this thread for Saddam are downright laughable
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it was correct all my prose, silly straw man,it is all documented,go look for it you lazy bitch....the only hissy prick is you...saddam was well ahead in all aspects of all his neibours sic,alowing women for instance to become doctor,engineers and so on...he was the only leader against bin laden etc., fought a war for america against iran,which put his economy back 20 years,until the israelis told him the yanks were playing both sides...oliver north and all that deception by the usa...you go and jump in a freezing lake,then come back and dialogue,you know not the minute nor the hour
 
theliq said:
it was correct all my prose, silly straw man,it is all documented,go look for it you lazy bitch....the only hissy prick is you...saddam was well ahead in all aspects of all his neibours sic,alowing women for instance to become doctor,engineers and so on...he was the only leader against bin laden etc., fought a war for america against iran,which put his economy back 20 years,until the israelis told him the yanks were playing both sides...oliver north and all that deception by the usa...you go and jump in a freezing lake,then come back and dialogue,you know not the minute nor the hour
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Again......do you have any proof?

Because it’s becoming very clear that you are utterly incapable of providing any, and nobody is obligated to just take your word for it.

Yes—-for example, Saddam was well ahead of his neighbors in the categories of mass murder, use of WMDs, and general slaughter.

The fact that people still fawn over Saddam would be laughable if it wasn’t so dumb.

Saddam was the “only leader against Bin Laden”?

Where are you getting this crap? Saddam was the only leader worldwide who celebrated the 9/11 attacks.

As usual, your posts lack both accuracy and sanity.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Again......do you have any proof?

Because it’s becoming very clear that you are utterly incapable of providing any, and nobody is obligated to just take your word for it.

Yes—-for example, Saddam was well ahead of his neighbors in the categories of mass murder, use of WMDs, and general slaughter.

The fact that people still fawn over Saddam would be laughable if it wasn’t so dumb.

Saddam was the “only leader against Bin Laden”?

Where are you getting this crap? Saddam was the only leader worldwide who celebrated the 9/11 attacks.

As usual, your posts lack both accuracy and sanity.
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You are wrong completely.I can't help you I am afraid becuse,you are brain drenched like many American Lemmings...I note you never,mentioned the Iran Iraq War,Ollie North,Rumsfeld etc

NO,You spew the same lie...Anyway America are the Worlds Mass Murderers,of the Innocents...they even Execute their own people...YOU LIE,YOU CRAZY BALDHEAD...but run your mouth off, ad-nausium...you FOOL
 
theliq said:
You are wrong completely.I can't help you I am afraid becuse,you are brain drenched like many American Lemmings...I note you never,mentioned the Iran Iraq War,Ollie North,Rumsfeld etc

NO,You spew the same lie...Anyway America are the Worlds Mass Murderers,of the Innocents...they even Execute their own people...YOU LIE,YOU CRAZY BALDHEAD...but run your mouth off, ad-nausium...you FOOL
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For the nine hundredth time.......do you have ANY PROOF FOR YOUR CLAIMS.

Otherwise it is nothing more you babbling conspiracy theories.

You are absolutely nuts. I'm done here. I've wasted enough time on your lack of sanity.
 
Tigerace117 said:
For the nine hundredth time.......do you have ANY PROOF FOR YOUR CLAIMS.

Otherwise it is nothing more you babbling conspiracy theories.

You are absolutely nuts. I'm done here. I've wasted enough time on your lack of sanity.
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As would have been expected from an ill informed,lazy,self opinionated,self serving Liar...Sorry Tiger,you never realised there are folk on here that can cut you prose into ribbons...I am one of them,your diatribes were boring...See you around Ace,but could you please close the door behind you,as you leave..Thanks,steve
 
theliq said:
As would have been expected from an ill informed,lazy,self opinionated,self serving Liar...Sorry Tiger,you never realised there are folk on here that can cut you prose into ribbons...I am one of them,your diatribes were boring...See you around Ace,but could you please close the door behind you,as you leave..Thanks,steve
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The only one you’ve “cut into ribbons” is yourself. I really do hate to break it to you but insane rambling and being utterly unable to provide a single shred of evidence—-as you have done—-is not an argument.

Get sone medication Steve.
 
Tigerace117 said:
The only one you’ve “cut into ribbons” is yourself. I really do hate to break it to you but insane rambling and being utterly unable to provide a single shred of evidence—-as you have done—-is not an argument.

Get sone medication Steve.
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Well it is for the reader to decide,between my Truth and Facts or your idea of the Truth...I will leave it up to them
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
US policy drives Russia, China together ahead of summit
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no crap...

China and Russia as allies (thanks Donald) present the first formidable threat to our world domination.

This moron and his idiot enablers, in a flash, have changed the dominate role we had occupied since WW2.

But the evil little creatures love him because he hates the same people they hate.
 
theliq said:
Well it is for the reader to decide,between my Truth and Facts or your idea of the Truth...I will leave it up to them
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You have yet to post a single fact......
 
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