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China gets serious

late

late

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" Should the US now impose tariffs on imports of another 200 billion, China will extend the conflict to other fields,” quoting Mao Zedong’s dictum, “You fight your war your way, and I will fight mine my way.”...

But in the US, the financial sector plays a much bigger role than in China. In that sense, the US is vulnerable here, so of course, that’s an option.” Der Spiegel asked, “Wouldn’t China hurt itself if it sold its dollar reserves?...

“In good times, our way of competing is to try to grow faster than the US. But when times get bad, it’s about who loses the most. That would be a financial war – and what such a financial war between the two largest economies looks like is probably beyond our imagination.”

A tragedy in the making as the US confronts China | Asia Times

China doesn't want to go there. But if Trump keeps acting like an evil Forest Gump, they will eventually dump dollars. The economy then goes to hell.
 
"wars are good and easy to win" ................. that is the Trump mantra

I told folks long before the 2016 POTUS general election: If Trump becomes POTUS he will wreck the economy.

People thought I was crazy .................... oh, well ................
 
late said:
" Should the US now impose tariffs on imports of another 200 billion, China will extend the conflict to other fields,” quoting Mao Zedong’s dictum, “You fight your war your way, and I will fight mine my way.”...

But in the US, the financial sector plays a much bigger role than in China. In that sense, the US is vulnerable here, so of course, that’s an option.” Der Spiegel asked, “Wouldn’t China hurt itself if it sold its dollar reserves?...

“In good times, our way of competing is to try to grow faster than the US. But when times get bad, it’s about who loses the most. That would be a financial war – and what such a financial war between the two largest economies looks like is probably beyond our imagination.”

A tragedy in the making as the US confronts China | Asia Times

China doesn't want to go there. But if Trump keeps acting like an evil Forest Gump, they will eventually dump dollars. The economy then goes to hell.
Click to expand...

If China dumps dollars, the Forex rate will drop and lower costs of USA exports. OTOH, since we operate with foreign loans and demand for the Dollar would die, it might be difficult to obtain operating capital. The Printing Presses at the Treasury might be generating wheelbarrow money as with the German Marks after WWII. Hang on to your little pieces of gold and silver. Always good stuff. Trump would say "everybody is screwing us" and send missiles in all directions, If you can't back your money with something tangible, you use your military. Bottom lime is that there are no positive scenarios related to Trade Wars, especially if you have abused your creditworthiness. example $21 Trillion deficit for 2018 and continuing trillion dollar annual deficits forecast into the forseeable future. The flamin' haired, white eyed redskin with the forked tongue is a master of planned bankruptcies, for what it's worth.
/
 
late said:
" Should the US now impose tariffs on imports of another 200 billion, China will extend the conflict to other fields,” quoting Mao Zedong’s dictum, “You fight your war your way, and I will fight mine my way.”...

But in the US, the financial sector plays a much bigger role than in China. In that sense, the US is vulnerable here, so of course, that’s an option.” Der Spiegel asked, “Wouldn’t China hurt itself if it sold its dollar reserves?...

“In good times, our way of competing is to try to grow faster than the US. But when times get bad, it’s about who loses the most. That would be a financial war – and what such a financial war between the two largest economies looks like is probably beyond our imagination.”

A tragedy in the making as the US confronts China | Asia Times

China doesn't want to go there. But if Trump keeps acting like an evil Forest Gump, they will eventually dump dollars. The economy then goes to hell.
Click to expand...

May be Trump exposed that we are now at the mercy of China. Who's fault is that again?
 
cuban smokes said:
"wars are good and easy to win" ................. that is the Trump mantra

I told folks long before the 2016 POTUS general election: If Trump becomes POTUS he will wreck the economy.

People thought I was crazy .................... oh, well ................
Click to expand...

Trump hasn't wrecked the economy so the 'crazy' label still applies.
 
late said:
" Should the US now impose tariffs on imports of another 200 billion, China will extend the conflict to other fields,” quoting Mao Zedong’s dictum, “You fight your war your way, and I will fight mine my way.”...

But in the US, the financial sector plays a much bigger role than in China. In that sense, the US is vulnerable here, so of course, that’s an option.” Der Spiegel asked, “Wouldn’t China hurt itself if it sold its dollar reserves?...

“In good times, our way of competing is to try to grow faster than the US. But when times get bad, it’s about who loses the most. That would be a financial war – and what such a financial war between the two largest economies looks like is probably beyond our imagination.”

A tragedy in the making as the US confronts China | Asia Times

China doesn't want to go there. But if Trump keeps acting like an evil Forest Gump, they will eventually dump dollars. The economy then goes to hell.
Click to expand...

So we should let China do what it wants to us then. Good strategy
 
Fletch said:
So we should let China do what it wants to us then. Good strategy
Click to expand...

There's gotta be something between "let China do what it wants to us" and what Trump is doing.
 
OlNate said:
There's gotta be something between "let China do what it wants to us" and what Trump is doing.
Click to expand...

And what would that be? Other administrations have tried to get China to engage in fair trade and they have refused.
 
Fletch said:
And what would that be? Other administrations have tried to get China to engage in fair trade and they have refused.
Click to expand...

And this is bringing out an all out war that will destroy your economy. Perhaps not running around like a bull in a chine shop (I'm getting a lot of mileage out of that pun these days...hehe) until something intelligent can be figured out would be the most prudent course of action. As bad as it was under previous administrations, you're heading into worse. You guys really wanna go the scorched earth route?
 
Fletch said:
Trump hasn't wrecked the economy so the 'crazy' label still applies.
Click to expand...

ah, in case you weren't paying attention, Trump is still POTUS

Trump has plenty of time to sign more dumb ass EOs, to implement more crazy ass policies & hair brained ****ty ideas to wreck the economy

one day in the future you may actually realize where the 'crazy' label resides ...........
 
late said:
" Should the US now impose tariffs on imports of another 200 billion, China will extend the conflict to other fields,” quoting Mao Zedong’s dictum, “You fight your war your way, and I will fight mine my way.”...

But in the US, the financial sector plays a much bigger role than in China. In that sense, the US is vulnerable here, so of course, that’s an option.” Der Spiegel asked, “Wouldn’t China hurt itself if it sold its dollar reserves?...

“In good times, our way of competing is to try to grow faster than the US. But when times get bad, it’s about who loses the most. That would be a financial war – and what such a financial war between the two largest economies looks like is probably beyond our imagination.”

A tragedy in the making as the US confronts China | Asia Times

China doesn't want to go there. But if Trump keeps acting like an evil Forest Gump, they will eventually dump dollars. The economy then goes to hell.
Click to expand...

All China has to do is sit down, talk to us and honestly try to work out a deal.

If they don't want to do that...well...the trade war continues and they will suffer more than we will.

btw, why on earth should the US support China's dreams of "Made in China 2025" by allowing them to demand/steal our technology?
 
OlNate said:
And this is bringing out an all out war that will destroy your economy. Perhaps not running around like a bull in a chine shop (I'm getting a lot of mileage out of that pun these days...hehe) until something intelligent can be figured out would be the most prudent course of action. As bad as it was under previous administrations, you're heading into worse. You guys really wanna go the scorched earth route?
Click to expand...

I doubt it will come to that. China may be stubborn but they aren't suicidal. Trump does his negotiating in public and that is what we are seeing here. If the US is damaged by a trade war with China, China is harmed far worse. There is a bit of brinksmanship going on here, but in the end, Trump will get a concession from China and the trade battle will end. The goal is to improve our trade position and that is what will happen.
 
OlNate said:
And this is bringing out an all out war that will destroy your economy. Perhaps not running around like a bull in a chine shop (I'm getting a lot of mileage out of that pun these days...hehe) until something intelligent can be figured out would be the most prudent course of action. As bad as it was under previous administrations, you're heading into worse. You guys really wanna go the scorched earth route?
Click to expand...

While I do not agree with his rhetoric or even his tactics, not sure we will stumble into a trade war. China is not about to fire its largest customer who employs millions of citizens. The U.S. can't quickly find a replacement supplier. That being said the problem being addressed,theft of our intellectual property is real. The last two presidents had 16 years to fix the problem but chose to stick their heads in the sand.So we can continue to say this is too hard and do nothing or do something and take some short term pain.

Funny we complain when CEOs think only about the next quarter (rightfully so) and then complain when a politician does what they all say they will do and try and fix a long-term problem.
 
Mycroft said:
All China has to do is sit down, talk to us and honestly try to work out a deal.

If they don't want to do that...well...the trade war continues and they will suffer more than we will.

btw, why on earth should the US support China's dreams of "Made in China 2025" by allowing them to demand/steal our technology?
Click to expand...

It seems that people always take the view of 'we don't want China to be upset' so lets not stir the pot. Trump is stirring the pot. Why? Because the view that the world should be taking is 'we don't want America to be upset.'
 
I find it amazing how people are reacting to the issue of "trade wars," as if there is no real problem except the one Trump is allegedly creating.

But his actions have a foundation in trying to deal with the very real problems created by American trade policies prior to his election:

For example:

Do you remember when China was accepted into the World Trade Organization in 2001? Presidents Clinton and Bush, as well as many other public policy leaders, predicted that it would improve the U.S.-China trade balance I don’t know how they got it so wrong. After 15 years, we can say from experience that none of those predictions have come true. The U.S. deficit with China has ballooned from $83 billion in 2000 to $366 billion in 2015. This is a total of $3.6 trillion in deficits with China. During this same period, the U.S. lost 5 million manufacturing jobs. Here is a short list of some of China's strategies. Currency Manipulation... State-Owned Enterprises (SOE)...Technology Theft... Technology Transfer...
Click to expand...
US Must Confront China on Unfair Trade Practices | China Trade Policy | IndustryWeek


Today, the U.S. applies a weighted average tariff of 1.6 percent on its imports, one of the lowest rates worldwide, according to World Bank data. That's equivalent to the EU and a rate similar to Japan. Even though most developed countries have pushed for lower tariffs in recent years, there are still many parts of the globe where they remain extremely high. Among other major global economies, India imposes weighted average tariffs of 6.3 percent while China's average rate is 3.5 percent.
Click to expand...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...-highest-and-lowest-infographic/#30d8b5067f26

I am not an economist, nor can I argue about trade issues between the U.S. and the EU, where I think Mr. Trump may well be erring.

However, China has been a growing problem ever since being allowed into the World Trade Organization, and we are rightly facing problems with their unfair trade practices. When it comes to China I support a trade war because we need to do something other then letting their rapacious trade practices continue to undermine the U.S. market.
 
I find it amazing how people are reacting to the issue of "trade wars," as if there is no real problem except the one Trump is allegedly creating.

But his actions have a foundation in trying to deal with the very real problems created by American trade policies prior to his election:

For example:

Do you remember when China was accepted into the World Trade Organization in 2001? Presidents Clinton and Bush, as well as many other public policy leaders, predicted that it would improve the U.S.-China trade balance I don’t know how they got it so wrong. After 15 years, we can say from experience that none of those predictions have come true. The U.S. deficit with China has ballooned from $83 billion in 2000 to $366 billion in 2015. This is a total of $3.6 trillion in deficits with China. During this same period, the U.S. lost 5 million manufacturing jobs. Here is a short list of some of China's strategies. Currency Manipulation... State-Owned Enterprises (SOE)...Technology Theft... Technology Transfer...
Click to expand...
US Must Confront China on Unfair Trade Practices | China Trade Policy | IndustryWeek


Today, the U.S. applies a weighted average tariff of 1.6 percent on its imports, one of the lowest rates worldwide, according to World Bank data. That's equivalent to the EU and a rate similar to Japan. Even though most developed countries have pushed for lower tariffs in recent years, there are still many parts of the globe where they remain extremely high. Among other major global economies, India imposes weighted average tariffs of 6.3 percent while China's average rate is 3.5 percent.
Click to expand...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...-highest-and-lowest-infographic/#30d8b5067f26

I am not an economist, nor can I argue about trade issues between the U.S. and the EU, where I think Mr. Trump may well be erring.

However,IMO China has been a growing problem ever since being allowed into the World Trade Organization, and we are rightly facing problems with their unfair trade practices. When it comes to China I support a trade war because we need to do something other than letting their rapacious trade practices continue to undermine the U.S. market.
 
Last edited:
Mycroft said:
btw, why on earth should the US support China's dreams of "Made in China 2025" by allowing them to demand/steal our technology?
Click to expand...

sorry to end your dreams, but you have no technology wich China does not better. Except military technology. You can´t even built a fridge people from other countries wanna buy - only arms and military vehicles. War is essential for the US economy - that frightens me a bit...
 
washunut said:
While I do not agree with his rhetoric or even his tactics, not sure we will stumble into a trade war. China is not about to fire its largest customer who employs millions of citizens. The U.S. can't quickly find a replacement supplier. That being said the problem being addressed,theft of our intellectual property is real. The last two presidents had 16 years to fix the problem but chose to stick their heads in the sand.So we can continue to say this is too hard and do nothing or do something and take some short term pain.

Funny we complain when CEOs think only about the next quarter (rightfully so) and then complain when a politician does what they all say they will do and try and fix a long-term problem.
Click to expand...

I'm not against fixing the problem...I'm just saying that Trump's approach won't do it, and, in fact, will make things worse. If the headlines aren't convincing you of that, I'm not sure what to say. It's not too hard to look down the path Trump is taking you and realize that you're facing something a little more substantial than "short term pain".

Normally I'd agree with you about things not being as dire as they seem...but this is Trump and his ego. You can't count on cool heads at this point, so anything is possible.
 
OlNate said:
I'm not against fixing the problem...I'm just saying that Trump's approach won't do it, and, in fact, will make things worse. If the headlines aren't convincing you of that, I'm not sure what to say. It's not too hard to look down the path Trump is taking you and realize that you're facing something a little more substantial than "short term pain".

Normally I'd agree with you about things not being as dire as they seem...but this is Trump and his ego. You can't count on cool heads at this point, so anything is possible.
Click to expand...

LOL!!

Talk about ego!!

"I don't like Trump so screw the US. I won't work with THAT guy!!"
 
Mycroft said:
LOL!!

Talk about ego!!

"I don't like Trump so screw the US. I won't work with THAT guy!!"
Click to expand...

Good grief, do you seriously think that is what the world is doing? Is your need to put Trump on a pedestal that desperate?

The only common denominator impacting things negatively on the global economy stage is Donald Trump. The rest of us get along just fine, and we got along fine with pretty much every previous administration. Your boy is the problem, end of story.
 
cuban smokes said:
"wars are good and easy to win" ................. that is the Trump mantra

I told folks long before the 2016 POTUS general election: If Trump becomes POTUS he will wreck the economy.

People thought I was crazy .................... oh, well ................
Click to expand...
Really, show me the wreckage.
 
The underlying problem is the Reserve Status of the dollar. It's a sweet deal having Reserve Status, and painful to lose it.

The dollar has Reserve Status because everyone has confidence in the dollar. China dumping several hundred billion dollars would be a massive vote of no confidence.

The civilian side doesn't want the conflict, at all. The parts of China that want to be the next global superpower wants badly to bring us down.

And right now, we're giving those guys a way to do it.
 
late said:
The underlying problem is the Reserve Status of the dollar. It's a sweet deal having Reserve Status, and painful to lose it.

The dollar has Reserve Status because everyone has confidence in the dollar. China dumping several hundred billion dollars would be a massive vote of no confidence.

The civilian side doesn't want the conflict, at all. The parts of China that want to be the next global superpower wants badly to bring us down.

And right now, we're giving those guys a way to do it.
Click to expand...

We made China the big bully they are
 
American said:
Really, show me the wreckage.
Click to expand...

You have trade wars, or threats of trade wars, with pretty much all your top trading partners, all of whom aren't immediately folding to the red, white, and blue, but rather are actively swinging back. You don't think that's wreckage? If America were a company, the board of directors would have canned this idiot instantly.
 
Lovebug said:
We made China the big bully they are
Click to expand...

Nixon is the gift that keeps on giving.

Not just China, but the Drug War is ripping a lot of Central and Southern America apart. We created what the refugees flee.
 
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