Ukraine Started Supplying Kurds with Javelins

The USA has approved a 47-million supply contract of the FGM-148 Javelin to Ukraine. However, it doesn't mean that Ukraine can sleep peacefully now being defended from a Russian tank invasion. According to some sources, not all the missile systems entered operational service of the Ukrainian Army. Some of them have been found in hands of Syrian Kurds who are convinced that the Javelins from Ukraine will help the squads of the popular self-defense to defeat the ISIS.



It's not a mystery how the missile systems appeared there. Even ignorant spectators who aren't involved in the process do notice discomfort and tension always appearing when the Ukrainian Defense Ministry officials are talking about recently bought smart missiles. It's not a surprise taking in account their Facebook revelations about Ukrainian political leadership selling out the FGM-148's to the Middle East.

There's much more concern about how such big deals passed by the American experts who had come to Ukraine to train the local militaries to use the system. It seems like all of them were locked up at the Yavorovsky practice ground with the last missile system left, and the video of its use is spread all over youtube. Also, the same youtube provides videos of Kurds using Javelins in Syria


or even of the Iraqi Army capturing American missiles from the ISIS terrorists


However, it's possible that the selling of the anti-tank missiles to Ukraine may be a secret way the US delivers Javelins to its Kurd allies so that to keep the Turks unaware of it. It allows helps secretly crediting the budget of Ukraine, which always is short of money to carry out new reforms.

Sounds logical - ISIS is, after all, noted for being a major tank power....

Does ISIS even own a tank ???

AdkinsJam said:

However, it's possible that the selling of the anti-tank missiles to Ukraine may be a secret way the US delivers Javelins to its Kurd allies so that to keep the Turks unaware of it. It allows helps secretly crediting the budget of Ukraine, which always is short of money to carry out new reforms.

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That's what I think, that it definitely has more to do with asymmetric resistance to the Turkish state and IS than Russia. Considering the fact that the US government is essentially a Russian sockpuppet at this juncture, it is probably safe to assume this has more to do with the Kurds and Syria than Ukraine and Russia.

JONRID said:

Sounds logical - ISIS is, after all, noted for being a major tank power....

Does ISIS even own a tank ???

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Yes, actually they do. They captured a number of them from Iraq, Syria and Libya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_equipment_of_ISIL#Tanks_and_armored_fighting_vehicles

The Americans have supplied Javelins to the Kurds in the past, this I believe is corruption... sold to the highest bidder, how unfortunate the same bastards who sold them does not have to defend the front line

BINGO !!!!!!! GIVE THAT MAN A CUPIE DOLL OFF THE TOP SHELF....

We have a heck of a problem with Benedict Arnold NATO member Turkey.

Turkey joined NATO during the cold war when the Warsaw Pact was the enemy. Turkey was also a mostly secular nation.

Not anymore - Turkey is going to the dark side of the Islamic revolution. (Just imagine what happens if NATO ally Turkey and Israel start shooting at each other)

The Kurds are the largest ethnic group in the world without a homeland. Their homeland would consist of parts of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey.

IMHO: We ought to kick Turkey out of NATO and covertly support the Kurds in establishing a homeland. Once the Kurds have bitten off a piece of somewhere - recognize them immediately support them as we did Israel.

Naturally the Kurds and Israel would become allies effecting the balance of power in the mid east.

HERA the Stars said:

The Americans have supplied Javelins to the Kurds in the past, this I believe is corruption... sold to the highest bidder, how unfortunate the same bastards who sold them does not have to defend the front line

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NONSENSE .... PROVIDE PROOF OF THAT ASSERTION....

Israel surplus TOW anti tank missiles to Iran in the 1980's which was the basis of the Iran/Contra scandal.

Perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

Tigerace117 said:

Yes, actually they do. They captured a number of them from Iraq, Syria and Libya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_equipment_of_ISIL#Tanks_and_armored_fighting_vehicles

Click to expand...

I know ISIS captured a lot of stuff from Iraq (the Iraqi ran away) but I really question ISIS has captured 125 + main Russian battle tanks from Syria.

And as to capturing tanks from Libya ?????

Get a map. How do you transport a tank from Libya to Syria ??? Take a left turn at Israel ??????

Besides you are using WIKIPEDIA as a source. That is a user supported encyclopedia. Anyone can contribute to it including ISIS who have demonstrated a high degree of technical internet sophistication.

JONRID said:

I know ISIS captured a lot of stuff from Iraq (the Iraqi ran away) but I really question ISIS has captured 125 + main Russian battle tanks from Syria.

And as to capturing tanks from Libya ?????

Get a map. How do you transport a tank from Libya to Syria ??? Take a left turn at Israel ??????

Besides you are using WIKIPEDIA as a source. That is a user supported encyclopedia. Anyone can contribute to it including ISIS who have demonstrated a high degree of technical internet sophistication.

Click to expand...

Lol there is literally no reason why ISIS would edit a Wikipedia page about their equipment. One, it would be blindingly obvious who they were--- and would be soon taken down--- and two, they are much more interested in social media.

The Syrian Army isn't exactly the world's most competent, and had largely disintegrated as the war dragged on. It's not real surprising that they would lose tanks and armored fighting vehicles.

There's this really neat thing called "ships" which exist these days. Maybe you've heard of them?

JONRID said:

NONSENSE .... PROVIDE PROOF OF THAT ASSERTION....

Israel surplus TOW anti tank missiles to Iran in the 1980's which was the basis of the Iran/Contra scandal.

Perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

Click to expand...

no that is not what I am thinking of, why don't you just google it, the information is freely available, there are even you tube videos of Kurds using Javelins lol

try this link vvv, it's a google search that lists plenty of articles with claims the Kurds already have Javelins, ISIS having Javelins (obviously obtained while fighting Kurds)

Clearly, the Kurds have been supplied with Javelins in Syria, the US can deny till they are blue in the face... how did these weapons get there?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=kurds+us+javelins+syrian+defense+forces&rlz=1C5CHFA_enAU734AU734&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVgdeLpfLbAhXFV7wKHaCfAbkQ_AUICSgA&biw=1680&bih=1050&dpr=1

HERA the Stars said:

Clearly, the Kurds have been supplied with Javelins in Syria, the US can deny till they are blue in the face... how did these weapons get there?

Click to expand...

Do you have any idea how many nations have the export version of the Javelin? These Rojava Kurds of Syria have been fighting ISIS with US forces since 2014.

Turkey invaded their Afrin region in January killing thousands. Erdogan even threatened to attack US forces in Manbij, Afrin region.....

Turkey Threatens to Attack Syrian Town Held by US Troops

Bottom line, Kurds could have obtained a Javelin from US forces, a NATO nation, an anti-Erdogan nation like Egypt etc.

Rogue Valley said:

Do you have any idea how many nations have the export version of the Javelin? These Rojava Kurds of Syria have been fighting ISIS with US forces since 2014.

Turkey invaded their Afrin region in January killing thousands. Erdogan even threatened to attack US forces in Manbij, Afrin region.....

Turkey Threatens to Attack Syrian Town Held by US Troops

Bottom line, Kurds could have obtained a Javelin from US forces, a NATO nation, an anti-Erdogan nation like Egypt etc.

Click to expand...

Yes that is true, however we know US special forces is working closely with the Syrian Democratic Forces, it is the most logical conclusion

ok so here's what I think happened, pure speculation but I'll put it out there anyway.

The US supplied Javelins to the SDF in the past, Turkey had a fit. To appease Turkey and prevent the YPG from getting their hands on any more Javelins the US stopped supplying the Kurds. The Kurds then went to Ukraine and;
1. bought them from the Ukrainian government or
2. bribed someone high up enough to approve the sale.

HERA the Stars said:

Yes that is true, however we know US special forces is working closely with the Syrian Democratic Forces, it is the most logical conclusion

Click to expand...

80% of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) are Syrian Kurds from northern Syria (Rojava).

They have been fighting with US forces against ISIS since the siege of Kobani in late 2014 and they captured the ISIS capital city of Ar-Raqqah in October 2017.

This tweet dated June 10, 2018, actually doesn't exit on the official page of Rojava Defense Units @DefenseUnits. Probably it was photoshopped or deleted. I don't think Ukraine has a right to resell American weapons to a third party.



https://twitter.com/defenseunits?lang=en

HERA the Stars said:

ok so here's what I think happened, pure speculation but I'll put it out there anyway.

The US supplied Javelins to the SDF in the past, Turkey had a fit. To appease Turkey and prevent the YPG from getting their hands on any more Javelins the US stopped supplying the Kurds. The Kurds then went to Ukraine and;
1. bought them from the Ukrainian government or
2. bribed someone high up enough to approve the sale.

Click to expand...

I don't buy it. Ukraine just recently received permission to spend $47 million on 210 Javelin missiles and 37 Javelin launchers. Only a portion have been delivered and training on their use is still ongoing.

Ukr is paying $110,000 for each missile. Why would Ukraine risk losing a weapon platform they've waited 4 years to obtain?

You're falling prey to Russian disinformation.

Rogue Valley said:

I don't buy it. Ukraine just recently received permission to spend $47 million on 210 Javelin missiles and 37 Javelin launchers. Only a portion have been delivered and training on their use is still ongoing.

Ukr is paying $110,000 for each missile. Why would Ukraine risk losing a weapon platform they've waited 4 years to obtain?

You're falling prey to Russian disinformation.

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Yes probably, if the Russians are trying to make the case that Ukraine will only onsell these weapons to terror groups they really should have picked a group other than the YPG, although considered a terror group most people in the west are sympathetic, including me. I have no problem with the Kurds having Javelins.

Tigerace117 said:

Lol there is literally no reason why ISIS would edit a Wikipedia page about their equipment. One, it would be blindingly obvious who they were--- and would be soon taken down--- and two, they are much more interested in social media.

The Syrian Army isn't exactly the world's most competent, and had largely disintegrated as the war dragged on. It's not real surprising that they would lose tanks and armored fighting vehicles.

There's this really neat thing called "ships" which exist these days. Maybe you've heard of them?

Click to expand...

SHIPS NEED PORTS...

The only port in Syria is controlled by the Russians/Syrian government.

Why would ISIS use Wikipedia to spread ISIS propaganda on the internet ???? DUH for the same reason ISIS uses the internet to recruit volunteers world wide.....

HERA the Stars said:

no that is not what I am thinking of, why don't you just google it, the information is freely available, there are even you tube videos of Kurds using Javelins lol

try this link vvv, it's a google search that lists plenty of articles with claims the Kurds already have Javelins, ISIS having Javelins (obviously obtained while fighting Kurds)

Clearly, the Kurds have been supplied with Javelins in Syria, the US can deny till they are blue in the face... how did these weapons get there?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=kurds+us+javelins+syrian+defense+forces&rlz=1C5CHFA_enAU734AU734&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVgdeLpfLbAhXFV7wKHaCfAbkQ_AUICSgA&biw=1680&bih=1050&dpr=1

Click to expand...

I read your google results... the USA denies supplying them to the Kurds and and the entire "evidence" consists of the unverified finding of an empty tube on the battlefield.

The googled articles are just simply not persuasive.

I have no doubt that Special Forces teams might have access to Javelins and even issued limited numbers of them to Kurds on joint operations where tanks and/or armored fighting vech's were the targets.

I would remind you Turkey is a NATO member. Arming the Kurds with Javelins in sufficent numbers to be used the Kurds long running struggle for independence would be highly improbable.

IMHO: Turkey has gone over to the dark side of the Islamic revolution since the cold war. We should kick them out of NATO and support Kurdish independence. The Kurd homeland consists of parts of Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey.

An independent Kurdistan allied with the USA would give us a second Israel in the Mid east. (for better or worse)

JONRID said:

I read your google results... the USA denies supplying them to the Kurds and and the entire "evidence" consists of the unverified finding of an empty tube on the battlefield.

The googled articles are just simply not persuasive.

I have no doubt that Special Forces teams might have access to Javelins and even issued limited numbers of them to Kurds on joint operations where tanks and/or armored fighting vech's were the targets.

(for better or worse)

Click to expand...

If you choose to be blind then let it be so. The Kurds have been using Javelins for at least two years, obviously they must have fallen out of the sky :roll: I also have a bridge to sell you btw

JONRID said:

I would remind you Turkey is a NATO member. Arming the Kurds with Javelins in sufficent numbers to be used the Kurds long running struggle for independence would be highly improbable.

IMHO: Turkey has gone over to the dark side of the Islamic revolution since the cold war. We should kick them out of NATO and support Kurdish independence. The Kurd homeland consists of parts of Syria, Iraq, Iran, and Turkey.

An independent Kurdistan allied with the USA would give us a second Israel in the Mid east. (for better or worse)

Click to expand...

No one is talking about arming the Kurds for their long struggle... you're all over the place. Erdogan is a drama queen but kicking him out of Nato now would be a big mistake, the US and Turkey only recently came to an agreement on Manbij, the situation is very delicate.

The Syrian war is far from over, the US recently told the Syrian rebels near the Golan heights they are on their own, they are currently getting the crap bombed out of them by the Russians, so far Mattis has stood by the Kurds in north eastern Syria, but Trump has made that many backflips, cutting funding... who knows if an independent Kurdistan will ever become a reality. More likely they will end up cutting a deal with Assad, we will see.

JONRID said:

SHIPS NEED PORTS...

The only port in Syria is controlled by the Russians/Syrian government.

Why would ISIS use Wikipedia to spread ISIS propaganda on the internet ???? DUH for the same reason ISIS uses the internet to recruit volunteers world wide.....

Click to expand...

Except there isn't any "propaganda" in the article. Your claim is a fantasy.

Even if they currently controlled the ports, they didn't always do so.....oh, and even without ports, ISIS still managed to capture quite a few tanks from the Syrians and Iraqis.

Tigerace117 said:

Except there isn't any "propaganda" in the article. Your claim is a fantasy.

Even if they currently controlled the ports, they didn't always do so.....oh, and even without ports, ISIS still managed to capture quite a few tanks from the Syrians and Iraqis.

Click to expand...

WIKI is not an authoritative source because it is user maintained. Anyone can alter the articles.

ISIS has an unknown number of tanks and APC's etc However tanks are of limited offensive use UNLESS you have AIR SUPERIORITY.

Sure you can hide them, but as soon as they are moved they become vulnerable to being located by satellite and attacked from the air.

Besides - shouldn't we be talking in the past tense... ISIS (in Syria) has about had the schnitzel.

HERA the Stars said:

Yes probably, if the Russians are trying to make the case that Ukraine will only onsell these weapons to terror groups they really should have picked a group other than the YPG, although considered a terror group most people in the west are sympathetic, including me. I have no problem with the Kurds having Javelins.

Click to expand...

No the YPG is the perfect group for the Russians to pick on for several reasons.

The Kurds want an independent homeland. which would come from parts of Turkey, Iran, Syria, and Iraq. Turkey is a NATO member and Iran is an ally.

Were we to supply the Kurds with Javelins they would most certainly, at some point turn them on Turkey and Iran.

Which is, of course, we would NOT indiscriminately be supplying the Kurds with anti Tank weapons. ISIS having been defeated, (ONLY OUR ALLIES HAVE TANKS).


The Russian motivation: to spread distention among the USA and our allies.

IMHO: Turkey being an Islamic member of NATO is a problem. Turkey has taken a wrong turn and is going over to the dark side of Islam. We have a NATO obligation to defend Turkey if attacked. Turkey is more and more becoming a foe of Israel.

What in the world happens if Turkey and Israel get in a shooting war ???

JONRID said:

No the YPG is the perfect group for the Russians to pick on for several reasons.

The Kurds want an independent homeland. which would come from parts of Turkey, Iran, Syria, and Iraq. Turkey is a NATO member and Iran is an ally.

Were we to supply the Kurds with Javelins they would most certainly, at some point turn them on Turkey and Iran.

Which is, of course, we would NOT indiscriminately be supplying the Kurds with anti Tank weapons. ISIS having been defeated, (ONLY OUR ALLIES HAVE TANKS).


The Russian motivation: to spread distention among the USA and our allies.

IMHO: Turkey being an Islamic member of NATO is a problem. Turkey has taken a wrong turn and is going over to the dark side of Islam. We have a NATO obligation to defend Turkey if attacked. Turkey is more and more becoming a foe of Israel.

What in the world happens if Turkey and Israel get in a shooting war ???

Click to expand...

I'm trying to reply to you but your post is fractured pieces of completely different issues stitched together.

I'll address the main issues although I could probably spend all day on this :lol:

ISIS had tanks, see You Tube video of ISIS tanks, you conveniently forget how large the area were they controlled, they sold oil fgs, they still have billions in bitcoin (although the bitcoin has been "tanking" so lets make it hundreds of millions), why would they not have a goddamn tank



And in Iraq Hezbollah apparently is driving around with American tanks

In Iraq, Hezbollah’s Got U.S. Tanks, and Washington Wants Them Back
https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-iraq-hezbollahs-got-us-tanks-and-washington-wants-them-back

So please don't tell me only allies have tanks you clearly have no clue, no matter what colour font you use.


The other dumb and crazy thing you spouted was something about Israel and Turkey :roll: the only thing you have to worry about right now is Israel and Iran ok

HERA the Stars said:

I'm trying to reply to you but your post is fractured pieces of completely different issues stitched together.

I'll address the main issues although I could probably spend all day on this :lol:

ISIS had tanks, see You Tube video of ISIS tanks, you conveniently forget how large the area were they controlled, they sold oil fgs, they still have billions in bitcoin (although the bitcoin has been "tanking" so lets make it hundreds of millions), why would they not have a goddamn tank



And in Iraq Hezbollah apparently is driving around with American tanks

In Iraq, Hezbollah’s Got U.S. Tanks, and Washington Wants Them Back
https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-iraq-hezbollahs-got-us-tanks-and-washington-wants-them-back

So please don't tell me only allies have tanks you clearly have no clue, no matter what colour font you use.


The other dumb and crazy thing you spouted was something about Israel and Turkey :roll: the only thing you have to worry about right now is Israel and Iran ok

Click to expand...

HERA the Stars said:

I'm trying to reply to you but your post is fractured pieces of completely different issues stitched together.

I'll address the main issues although I could probably spend all day on this :lol:

ISIS had tanks, see You Tube video of ISIS tanks, you conveniently forget how large the area were they controlled, they sold oil fgs, they still have billions in bitcoin (although the bitcoin has been "tanking" so lets make it hundreds of millions), why would they not have a goddamn tank



And in Iraq Hezbollah apparently is driving around with American tanks

In Iraq, Hezbollah’s Got U.S. Tanks, and Washington Wants Them Back
https://www.thedailybeast.com/in-iraq-hezbollahs-got-us-tanks-and-washington-wants-them-back

So please don't tell me only allies have tanks you clearly have no clue, no matter what colour font you use.


The other dumb and crazy thing you spouted was something about Israel and Turkey :roll: the only thing you have to worry about right now is Israel and Iran ok

Click to expand...

1) ISIS is all but defeated so the Kurds do not need javelins against ISIS.
2) The tanks in your hot link are NOT ISIS tanks. Those are tanks in the hands of IRAQI MILITIA.

That is an entirely different war between the Kurds and our Iraqi allies.

You are mixing some of my non related (to tanks) to tank related posts. That's my error - I sometimes forgot to quote which other user post mine was responding to.

The USA policy toward the mid east is the CARTER DOCTRINE: the free flow of oil from the Persian Gulf is a VITAL interest of the USA.
(vital interest in diplomat speak = we will go to war over this)

Everything else is just moving pieces around the chess board.