Comparison USA / USSR / Russia...

Gentlemen, I'm talking to a Google translator

Let's pray to God and talk ...

POINT 0
================================================== ============
1. I mean only "Material values". Please do not talk about Philosophy, Politics ...

Only Finance ...
Material values are our income and expenses that we make to live.

I will designate the expenditures of a person according to the "degree of significance":
- Medicine (a sick person will not eat food)
- Food, clothing and hygiene (a healthy person should eat and keep hygiene so as not to get sick)
- Housing (a well-fed and healthy person must live somewhere)
- Education (a person should know how to get money)
- Equipment, furniture ... (a person should live comfortably)
- The car ... (a man is a lazy creature, besides the vast expanses of America and Russia - very large)
- Relaxation (a person should rest)
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Preamble:
1.1 We consider our income
1.2 We consider our expenses, which I indicated above.
1.3 Then we subtract and get "SAVINGS"
1.4 Then we compare these savings to the USA, the USSR and Russia ...

I think this is the right approach ...
If you do not agree with me, then please do not read and do not waste your and my time ... Ok?

================================================== ====
2. For comparison, I'll take:
- USA - 2016
- USSR - 70s of the 20th century (this is the most indicative period)
- Russia - 2016 year
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For comparison, I will only use official statistics:
- USA - IRS data
- The USSR and Russia - Rosstat
-------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------
For comparison, I will use the term "medial person", I do not know how to correctly say in English "medium / medial level" ...
When I write: American, Soviet man or Russian, then I mean it ... "average / medial level" ...

Therefore, I ask you not to object to me with these words:
"... I have other expenses ... one of my friends is a millionaire ... or another"
It's clear?

================================================== ====
3. In America, it is customary to consider income and expenses:
- or annually
- or every hour
-----------------------------------------------
In Russia, it is considered monthly, so I will give figures monthly ...
Sorry, it's more convenient for me ...

=================================================
POINT 1
USA

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0. American has an annual income of 54 thousand dollars ...

Or 4500 monthly.
An American pays with this amount:
- Federal tax
- State tax
- Social Security Taxi
- Medicare
The American system of paying taxes on income and social deductions is very complicated ... There are many nuances ... I will simply say that an American will pay 5 to 50 percent of his income ... Most likely this figure will be 20 percent.
But ... I'll regret you (I'm kind) and show only 10 percent in calculation ...

SAVINGS (cash on hand) = 4500 - 450 = 4050
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------

1. Expenses for Medicine.
Insurance in America costs at least $ 150 ...
- This insurance allows the American to lie in the hospital 7-14 days 1 time a year, if he is sick "not very much" ...
- Then he will be thrown out into the street
- Serious illnesses American insurance does not cover ... Americans will sell all their property to stay alive ... The American system allows you to sell all the property of the debtor and does not give him any housing ... This is horrible ...
- In America there is no such thing as "free emergency medical help" - this is when you die and call a car for delivery to the hospital. In America there are 911 - this service costs more than 3000 dollars for a call
"You can not hurt in America!"

SAVINGS = 4050 - 150 = 3900
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
2. Food, clothing and hygiene ...
In America - this is called a "standard of living" or "minimum wage", with which income taxes are not taken. An American businessman has no right to pay an employee less than this amount, otherwise - crime and "munlayt"
This figure is 1400 dollars ...
- This figure includes GMOs - products and fast food from monopolies. American food is terrible ... Natural products cost 2-3 times more ...
- Alcohol and cigarettes are not included ...
(Russian tourist in America eats, drinks and smokes 100 dollars a day, or 3000 dollars a month ...)
- Clothing - production of China or second-hand.

SAVINGS = 3900 - 1400 = 2500
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
3. Housing ...
This is a very big and interesting topic
therefore, I will try to squeeze it:

3.1 An American has the opportunity to purchase housing through a loan from a bank
For example...
- Apartment-house for 4 families,
- For each family: 100 m2, living room, 2 bedrooms, bathroom, heating (or air conditioning), hot and cold water, sewerage, plot 2000 m2, swimming pool, parking ...
- This house will cost about 300 - 500 thousand dollars. The American buys him in debt for 30 years and pays a monthly 1300-1500 dollars ...
An American can not lose his job! Otherwise, he will lose his home ..

3.2 An American pays a tax on real estate (land and house) ...
I would say that for this house this amount will be 150 dollars

3.3 The American pays utility bills
I would say that for this house this amount will be $ 300

3.4 The American pays the insurance ...
But, in America - real estate insurance - voluntary ...
You can not insure ...

SAVINGS = 2500 - 1300 - 150 - 300 = 750
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------

4. Education
Russians, when they say "Education", we mean only University education.
For the American, this education is not available ...

5. Equipment, furniture ...
Americans buy these goods if they have accumulated money ...
By the way, the equipment in America is very good.

6. The car ...
A car in America costs from 100 to 1,000,000 dollars.
I would say that Americans buy used cars worth 15-20 thousand dollars ...
Where they take money to buy - I do not understand ... Most likely - they are given by a mom or dad, since the American budget does not allow them to do it ...
Therefore, I will not consider the cost of buying a car ...

6.1. Car insurance, gasoline costs, repairs, fuel - 500 dollars

SAVINGS = 750 - 500 = 250
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------

7. Relaxation
Americans do not have the opportunity to rest, so the American youth works for every dollar ...
Old people have the opportunity to chat on forums

================================================== =========

If you are interested, I will show figures for the USSR and Russia ....

But, first, please tell me that I wrote wrong about America?

1. Americans have monthly SAVINGS = 250 dollars ... This amount allows:
- 2 times a month to go to a good restaurant and eat natural food
- or save to buy, for example, a cabinet, after 1 year ....
--------------------------------------------
2. American:
- can not get an education
- eats very poorly and wears cheap clothes
- Equipment and Cars in America are very good ...

=============================
Well...
How did you like it?
I ask you not to judge strictly, perhaps there are mistakes.
I will be grateful if you indicate

I will write an article about the USSR later ...
Americans, you will be really surprised

I think this is one of those Russian trolls everyone is talking about looks like we finally have our own here at DP

I'm waiting for real answers from the Americans.
I give figures and you can argue
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About me:
- I lived in the US and have my home in the US state of North Carolina, in the city of Jacksonville
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Hams immediately go to ignore ...
:lamo

Are you seriously trying to say that economically speaking the USSR of the 70's and modern Russia are better off than Americans?

Selivan said:

I'm waiting for real answers from the Americans.
I give figures and you can argue
-------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------
About me:
- I lived in the US and have my home in the US state of North Carolina, in the city of Jacksonville
-------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------
Hams immediately go to ignore ...
:lamo

Click to expand...

The average price of a house in Jacksonville NC is 127k not the 300-500k you claimed

https://www.realtor.com/local/Jacksonville_NC

Which is a monthly payment of $600 based on a 30 year loan @3.92% not the $1300-1500 you claimed

Of course the truth is that you live no where near North Carolina and have no clue about America or how the people in it live

Quag said:

Are you seriously trying to say that economically speaking the USSR of the 70's and modern Russia are better off than Americans?

Click to expand...

I'm not proving anything, but I just want to quote real figures for the CITIZEN's expenses for the USA, the USSR and Russia ....
In addition, I show what expenses citizens of the USA, the USSR and Russia are doing ..

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------
But...
Do you agree with the incomes and expenses of the US CITIZEN?
I repeat ...
You will be surprised when you learn about the costs in the USSR and Russia ...

Crovax said:

The average price of a house in Jacksonville NC is 127k not the 300-500k you claimed

https://www.realtor.com/local/Jacksonville_NC

Which is a monthly payment of $600 based on a 30 year loan @3.92% not the $1300-1500 you claimed

Of course the truth is that you live no where near North Carolina and have no clue about America or how the people in it live

Click to expand...

Boy, I'm asking you not to take the subject away ...
I'm talking about the "average level" in America, and not about special cases ...
----------------------
I have an apartment house, for 4 families .. I built it at the end of the 20th century for only $ 50 thousand. Do not ask me about "legality" ... My relative lives there. I do not go to America, because you have tasteless food. I'm just getting a rent ...

As I understand it, Americans can not object to my figures on US CITIZEN expenses ....
You think, maybe I'm wrong somewhere?

Bad form to post your first 6 posts in the same thread!:mrgreen:

Selivan said:

Well...
How did you like it?
I ask you not to judge strictly, perhaps there are mistakes.
I will be grateful if you indicate

I will write an article about the USSR later ...
Americans, you will be really surprised

Click to expand...

Well, certain details are open to dispute, in my opinion, but I'll pass on that. One thing you disregarded that makes a BIG difference is credit cards and loans.

For example, in your section about "6. The car ...", you express confusion about where Americans get the money for a car. You say possibly from mom and dad. When my oldest son bought his first car he used money he had saved...about $8,000...for a down payment and took a loan from his bank for the balance. He had no monetary help from mom and dad. He has since repaid his loan and he now owns his own car. btw, he knows this car will eventually become not worth the expense to keep it running, so he is saving for the down payment for his next car.

But the sad fact is that Americans use loans and credit far more than they probably should. Many Americans use credit cards for those normal monthly expenses you mention. This, in my opinion, has the overall effect of allowing them to enjoy a higher standard of living than their monthly wages would allow on their own.

Anyway, this is something for you to consider...and maybe make adjustments to your perception of Americans. I don't really know anything about how Russians lived, either in the past or currently, so I'll look forward to your review of their monthly finances.

POINT 2
the USSR

First of all, I will consider income and expenses in Soviet rubles ..
1 dollar = 0.6 Soviet ruble ... in the 70s

Next item:
Soviet people never paid taxes or insurance
None!
The government pays for everything ...
Why?
Because in the USSR, there was no "private property" ...

================================================== ============
0. The Soviet man has a monthly income of 120 rubles.
This is "cash on hand"
The tax on income, pension and insurance deductions is kept by the accounting department of the enterprise, so the Soviet people did not even know what "taxes" are ...

SAVINGS (cash on hand) = 120
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------

1. Expenses for Medicine.
All Medicine in the USSR was free of charge
No "insurance", the Government pays for everything!

- In addition, the Soviet man had the opportunity to relax once a year for 24 days and get treatment at the Sanatorium ...
- The quality of medicine is excellent, because the doctors "treated the whole person, but not only his illness." It was impossible to violate this rule by a doctor, since the Soviet laws were very strict.
- In the USSR, any person who feels bad, can call "free ambulance." The arrival time of doctors is less than 15 minutes, otherwise they will be punished
- In the USSR there was a system of "district doctor". This doctor should visit the elderly once a week and check their health
- Inpatient treatment is also free, including treatment, medicine, food ... Nutrition in Soviet hospitals was under strict control

2. Food, clothing and hygiene ...
To assess the level of expenditure on food, you should take the so-called "travel allowance"
This figure is equal to 2,6 rubles per day or 80 rubles per month
- Alcohol and cigarettes are not included ...
- Clothes - not included
All food in the USSR was natural, it was produced, according to the Government Standard (GOST). The manufacturer had no right to violate this standard. For violation - a long time in prison or shooting ...
By the way, in modern Russia, Russians prefer to buy products that comply with the Soviet GOST ...

SAVINGS (cash on hand) = 120 - 80 = 40
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Housing ...
All housing in the USSR was free!!! ..

3.1
The government had an obligation to provide the citizen with housing when he got a job and worked for 2 years.
Under the concept of "housing" in the USSR understood:
- Apartment
- Communal apartment
- Dormitory
If the Government did not have the opportunity to provide the Apartment, they gave a less convenient option, and the person took the queue for getting an apartment ...

3.2.
The government had an obligation to provide urban citizens with a suburban land plot that had a minimum area of ​​600 m2. This is called - COTTAGE ... There is nothing like this in America.

3.3.
The government allowed Soviet people to buy an apartment in private ownership ...
This apartment was worth 5-10 thousand rubles in Moscow (the car cost about the same)
The Soviet man had a salary of 120 rubles a month ...
Do you think that it is impossible to buy an apartment?
ha ha ha ...
But in real life, Soviet people had the opportunity to go to the Arctic regions and Siberia. Salary in those places - from 500 to 2000 rubles!
Thus, a Soviet man could buy an apartment in 2 years.

3.4.
Communal expenses were purely symbolic and fixed - about 2 rubles
This amount includes:
- payment for accommodation
- Central communications, including heating, gas, sewerage, hot and cold water .. There were no "flow meters" - you can open a tap with water and pour it all day or burn gas as much as you want ...
- But electricity - payment on the counter, about 1 ruble

SAVINGS = 40 - 2 - 1 = 37
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4. Education
Russians, when they say "Education", we mean only University education.!!!!
All education in the USSR is free ...
In addition, the Government paid students a small scholarship - 40 rubles .. Students spent this money on beer and girls, and then they were hungry ..

================================================== ==============
So, we will draw conclusions:
1. Soviet people have monthly SAVINGS = 37 rubles ... This amount allows you to:
- 2 times a month to go to a good restaurant
- or save to buy, for example, a cabinet, 10 years later ....
--------------------------------------------
2. The Soviet Man
- does not have the opportunity to buy equipment, furniture, car
- eats very well and wears natural clothes
- Has the best education in the world
- Government pays for education, apartment, medicine

Mycroft said:

Well,

Click to expand...

I believe that you better learn how the Russians know how to use debit and credit cards ...
Russians will teach you how to use a debit card, even if it is not a credit card ....
It's funny ...
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------
- You better calculate how much you pay the bank for using the credit on the credit card, when you pay from it on credit ...
- Then compare, if you just take a loan from a bank ...
- You will be surprised that the bank deceives you 2 times ... I mean that all credit card expenses, including interest and maintenance, will be 2 times more than you just take a loan from a bank ...
You do not argue with me, I worked in the banking system from 1995 to 2011
:lol:

If you are interested in the topic "how do banks deceive people," then I can create a separate topic when I have a mood ... But now I ask you not to discuss this topic
:lamo

Selivan said:

I'm not proving anything, but I just want to quote real figures for the CITIZEN's expenses for the USA, the USSR and Russia ....
In addition, I show what expenses citizens of the USA, the USSR and Russia are doing ..

-------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------
But...
Do you agree with the incomes and expenses of the US CITIZEN?
I repeat ...
You will be surprised when you learn about the costs in the USSR and Russia ...

Click to expand...

Your figures are misleading at best, grossly inaccurate at worst because it varies greatly from state to state and from county to county.
Compare New York to Hong Kong and New York seems cheap. Compare it to the Chinese hinterland and it is unbelievable expensive. Mind you mist people would still prefer New York with its modern conveniences.
Even today the standard of living of the average American is superior to that of the average Russian and in the 70s was vastly superior to that of the USSR.
Food lines, lack of basic necessities etc. etc, Heck the USSR collapsed because it was broke
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolution_of_the_Soviet_Union

Today Russia is under the rule of uber-rich oligarchs run by Putin, there is no real democracy and the average standard of living is still well below that of western countries.
This doesn't mean the USA is perfect but you are trying to compare apples and oranges.
As to costs it is irrelevant. A loaf of bread may cost the equivalent of 5 cents but if there is no variety you have less.

Perhaps one day Russia will remove Putin get actual democracy and become a truly modern nation. It isn't there yet.

Selivan said:

I believe that you better learn how the Russians know how to use debit and credit cards ...
Russians will teach you how to use a debit card, even if it is not a credit card ....
It's funny ...
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------
- You better calculate how much you pay the bank for using the credit on the credit card, when you pay from it on credit ...
- Then compare, if you just take a loan from a bank ...
- You will be surprised that the bank deceives you 2 times ... I mean that all credit card expenses, including interest and maintenance, will be 2 times more than you just take a loan from a bank ...
You do not argue with me, I worked in the banking system from 1995 to 2011
:lol:

Click to expand...

Perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm not arguing with you at all. And I'm not expressing any support for or against using credit cards and loans. I think both can be used responsibly...or irresponsibly. I simply pointed out that you disregarded the fact that Americans use loans and credit cards for a portion of their monthly living expenses. That affects the outcome of your analysis of how much Americans spend on a monthly basis.

Debit cards are an entirely different matter, though, since they are based on available cash...not credit.

Anyway, I've already expressed how I would like to learn how Russians handle their living expenses. That would include, for comparison purposes, how they handle credit cards and loans.

Quag said:

...Compare New York to Hong Kong and New York seems cheap....
...Today Russia is...

Click to expand...

1.
You can not challenge my figures about America, because I give OFFICIAL AMERICAN DATA .. about the average American salary and the level of income tax.
-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------
2.
You can not challenge my data about Russia for a simple reason:
I did not say anything about Russia.
I spoke about the USSR
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you want to know about modern Russia?

Mycroft said:

Perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm not arguing with you at all. And I'm not expressing any support for or against using credit cards and loans. I think both can be used responsibly...or irresponsibly. I simply pointed out that you disregarded the fact that Americans use loans and credit cards for a portion of their monthly living expenses. That affects the outcome of your analysis of how much Americans spend on a monthly basis.

Debit cards are an entirely different matter, though, since they are based on available cash...not credit.

Anyway, I've already expressed how I would like to learn how Russians handle their living expenses. That would include, for comparison purposes, how they handle credit cards and loans.

Click to expand...

I understood you perfectly (and you understood me, but it remains beyond the boundaries of the conversation), so I wrote you about debit and credit cards ...
Once again, I remind you that do not use credit cards. Bank deceives you 2 times

Selivan said:

I have an apartment house, for 4 families .. I built it at the end of the 20th century for only $ 50 thousand. Do not ask me about "legality" ... My relative lives there. I do not go to America, because you have tasteless food. I'm just getting a rent ...

Click to expand...

:lamo


Yeah, that happens.

Selivan said:

I understood you perfectly (and you understood me, but it remains beyond the boundaries of the conversation), so I wrote you about debit and credit cards ...
Once again, I remind you that do not use credit cards. Bank deceives you 2 times

Click to expand...

Forget about debit cards. They are irrelevant.

Why do you disregard credit cards? Their use incurs a monthly expense that can easily exceed other American monthly expenses and they are used by a very large portion of Americans. I believe they SHOULD be within the boundaries of your conversation.

And don't worry about me. I stopped using credit cards years ago.

Mycroft said:

... Americans use loans and credit cards for a portion of their monthly living expenses...

Click to expand...

This is very bad, since you spend 2 times more on a credit card than if you just take a consumer loan from a bank.

Mycroft said:

... how Russians handle their living expenses.

Click to expand...

If you are interested in how many people in Modern Russia spend on life, I have not yet written ...
I will write now..

ecofarm said:

Yeah, that happens.

Click to expand...

What problems, dude?

Point 3
Modern Russia ...

First of all, I want to remind you that we compare the welfare of US citizens, the USSR and Russia on the following most important only! material items:

0. Income
1. Medicine
2. Food and clothes
3. Housing (purchase and utility costs)
4. Education (university only)
5. Equipment and furniture
6. The car
7. Relaxation

================================================== =======

Modern Russia is a capitalist country in which Soviet achievements are used for social demands of citizens. Russia can not create anything new ...

1 USD = 60 RUR

Consider:

0. The average income of a citizen of Russia per month is 28,000 rubles ...
This is "cash on hand," since in Russia, according to Soviet traditions, an accountant at the Enterprise thinks all taxes and social deductions ... In America it's not like that - look above ...

1. Medicine
Medicine in Russia is of 2 types:
- Mandatory: (free) The government pays for insurance and allows all citizens to receive medical services .. This "service" is terrible ... Most doctors are Asians or Caucasians. The quality is disgusting ...
- Voluntary (paid) ... The best polyclinics, hospitals and doctors. But it costs 100,000 rubles a year, so for ordinary Russian it is not available. Large Enterprises pay such insurance for their employees, but I do not take it into account
Everything was free and available in the USSR!
Besides...
Modern Russia purchases most of the medicines abroad, as Soviet technologies are lost ... Many drugs are a "fake" that does not help sick people!
This disgrace has never happened in the USSR!

SAVINGS (cash in hand) = 28 000

==============================================================
2. Food and clothing ...
In Russia, there is such a measure of "subsistence minimum", which is similar to the American "standard of living" ...
These "levels" created by Russian and American capitalists, so that citizens do not die of hunger and wore the cheapest clothing ....
In America, as I wrote above, it is $ 1,400 a month.
In Russia it is equal to 10 600 rubles per month
Explanations:
This is your spending, what you eat and you can buy clothes ...
In Russia - food is a complete **** to buy quality food, you will not have enough of this money. To buy quality natural clothes - the same
In America - all the same, even worse than in Russia
The best natural food and natural clothes was in the USSR!

SAVINGS (cash in hand) = 28 000 - 10 600 = 17 400
==============================================================

3. Housing
- Buying any dwelling, apartment, house ... in Russia is not available!
In the USSR it was free, in America it is possible to buy through the "moatage loan" for 30 years ... Therefore, Russian youth lives in the apartments of parents who gave them to the Soviet Union ...
- Communal expenses...
In Russia, they pay a so-called "cadastral price" when half of the cost of heating, gas, electricity and water is paid by the Government ... In the Middle it will be 5,000 rubles
In the USSR it was practically free ... A small amount
- Property tax
In Russia they pay on the so-called "cadastral price", when half of the costs are paid by the Government ... In the Middle it will be 500 rubles
In the USSR there were no taxes
In addition ... the so-called "cadastral price" is also the achievement of the USSR, so that people do not pay at a real market price ...
In America, they pay huge sums and everything at a market price ...

SAVINGS (cash in hand) = 17 400 - 5 000 - 500 = 11 900

==============================================================

4. Education
Education in Russia - 2 types:
- Free (Soviet and Soviet technology)
- Paid (for foreign technology and for debits)
Thank God, that morons in Russia are only 1 percent

5. Equipment, Furniture
In Russia, this **** in bulk ... Basically - the production of China or Turkey
In the USSR, on the contrary, there was a very large deficit
"Average Russian moron" spends on it no more than 2,000

SAVINGS (cash in hand) = 11 900 - 2 000 = 9 900

6. The car ...
- The cheapest NEW car costs 300,000 rubles in Russia, so Russians try to buy "used cars" or learn to repair an old car that he received from his parents in the USSR.
Buying a car for the Russian in modern Russia - is not available!
- Expenses for the car, gasoline, fuel, repairs, taxes = 3 000

SAVINGS (cash in hand) = 9 900 - 3 000 = 6 900


7. Relaxation
As you can see, in Contemporary Russia, Modern Russia still has a lot of money ... He spends them a whole year, then he goes abroad ...
There he gets drunk, like a pig, beats Americans, Englishmen, Germans and others ...
This is the fall of morals.

Selivan said:

What problems, dude?

Click to expand...

Well, dude, there's no way someone living in the garbage pile called Russia would own property here and live there unless they were rich. Supposedly building a townhouse for 50k (illegally) is not rich.