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Germany edges toward Chinese-style rating of citizens

celticwar17 said:
Not Surprising whatsoever in the pursuit of socialist utopia.
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The German government is conservative, but don't let me stop you displaying your ignorance.
 
german hick said:
ChezC3: may be I´m a little bit stupid or too bad in English, but if you did not say this and did not say that - would you please tell me in easy words (I´m stupid, you know) what you want to say about this country? If it´s not what Rabid said, I don´t get it.
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I'm not too sure what there isn't to get. The article was as plain as day. They also have a German language website to help you if you're an ESL'er.

Don't be too hard on yourself.
 
ChezC3 said:
I'm not too sure what there isn't to get. The article was as plain as day. They also have a German language website to help you if you're an ESL'er.

Don't be too hard on yourself.
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I do understand the article. There is an old man fearing Orwell style Society in Germany.

That is possible with the digital world we have. It´s important to have a look on that. But in no way may that happen here (in my opinion).

(btw I do remember you mockering baout the lousy Germans complaining about spying - get an opinion on that!)

Why do you say Germany would be the place?
Who made these social platforms everyone is on today?
Who lowered the worth of personal freedom (ecept weapons) in fear of terror in a way someone could think it´s a surveillance Society?
Who sells all achievements of social justice to the god of buisness? (may be the evil are not governments but big trading companies who already have the data?)

Seems to me you really have a fat portion of Antigermanism in your head ;oP
All your post belonging to my homecountry sound like "I´m googlesearching for something what may be bad in Germany"

have a nice day, I feel quite free, healthy, save and wealthy here, although I´m in no way upper class ;oP
 
jdog21 said:
I dont care how good people have it over there. The facts are China is communist. Since the 80's they may have moved away from Maoist beliefs but that doesnt make their system less communist.
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Then you do not understand what communism actually is and what China actually is like
 
humbolt said:
Based on their system, you two guys are worthless. Okay, I'm worthless too. Who in their right mind would buy into this? China doesn't count. They don't have a "right" mind. But Germany? C'mon Germany. With WWII in the rear view mirror, do you really want to go back down that road?
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Germans are used to that.
Germany is the country where every one has to tell the authorities where they live or you get fined. Where you have to pay for open broadcast TV either you use, watch or like them or not, even if you are poor and barely have money for yourself, and government can stop you anytime and anywhere to ask for your papers and past files, not because you are suspect of something or because they are doing investigation, but just because so they can have more information about the citizen to surveillance them.
 
So, if someone is posting on social media about how they'd like to get some more high powered firearms, stock up on thousands more bullets, belongs to several white nationalist groups, maybe hangs out on Stormfront or similar sites, talks incessantly about how "the Jew is destroying American values", rambles and mumbles incoherently about niggers, mexicans, kikes, zipperheads and mud people, and talks about how they'd like to overthrow the liberal deep state government and institute a biblical rule of law...I guess that they get an EXCELLENT social rating in Trump's America?

Asking for a friend. ;)
 
C R O I X said:
Germans are used to that.
Germany is the country where every one has to tell the authorities where they live or you get fined. Where you have to pay for open broadcast TV either you use, watch or like them or not, even if you are poor and barely have money for yourself, and government can stop you anytime and anywhere to ask for your papers and past files, not because you are suspect of something or because they are doing investigation, but just because so they can have more information about the citizen to surveillance them.
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That's a shame, but if the Germans are willing to tolerate this kind of thing for whatever rationalization suits them, then it's wasted pity on my part.
 
humbolt said:
That's a shame, but if the Germans are willing to tolerate this kind of thing for whatever rationalization suits them, then it's wasted pity on my part.
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I think the same.
 
C R O I X said:
Germans are used to that.
Germany is the country where every one has to tell the authorities where they live or you get fined. Where you have to pay for open broadcast TV either you use, watch or like them or not, even if you are poor and barely have money for yourself, and government can stop you anytime and anywhere to ask for your papers and past files, not because you are suspect of something or because they are doing investigation, but just because so they can have more information about the citizen to surveillance them.
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good to know :D :D
You are two really quallified experts on how I am, ha?
 
german hick said:
good to know :D :D
You are two really quallified experts on how I am, ha?
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Sorry, I didn't know that what I described was something new in Germany, I thought it was always like this. This is why I said Germans are used to that.
But I have the impression Germans are kind very obedient to authorities.

All that things the government demand in Germany, I could never imagined being obeyed in most of democratic countries. Germans may not agree sometimes, but if it is demanded by the authorities they tend to accept it.

Am I wrong?
 
C R O I X said:
Am I wrong?
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I think you are. May be because the things you diskribe aren´t that way either.
I think each citizen of the states is at least as much spied on than the average German citizen. And mostly not by government but by private companies - most of them from the states btw ;o)

I think you have a very old fashioned view on this Country. Seems some 75 years old.. ;o)
 
I would disagree too. I do not see a lot differences in the way, "we" protest against anything. I remember me on protests against TTIP, nuclear power (in special after Fukushima), mass surveillance, the strikes of the train drivers and pilots or the protests against the reforms of the former chancellor Gerhard Schröder. So I believe that there is no basically obedience to everything the state does. Perhaps the way to protest is longer because in my impression, there is a tradition of finding compromises in German society. Protests are normally just the last solutions, if the people did not a find a way to come together and that could be one answer of this impression you have. Another answer could be that in defiance of actual tendencies, there is big trust in German courts, in special of the German constitutional court (Bundesverfassungsgericht), which is in polls normally one of the most popular institutions of the state, cause the courts in Germany have more rights to defend the constitution the basic rights of the citizens but it does not change anything of the democratic character of the society.

@german hick: Du you come from Germany too?
 
I believe we need to advance our City building technologies; simply to compete with the Chinese and solve our homeless problem.
 
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german hick said:
good to know :D :D
You are two really quallified experts on how I am, ha?
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They know everything about nothing, and then some more. The place they are criticising looks nothing like anywhere I've been, in Germany or it's neighbours.
 
new cities could be more optimally located for transportation.

new cities should be connected by underground, "conduits to markets".

and should enable,

maglev technologies in a vacuum environment.
 
Sebastian F said:
I would disagree too. I do not see a lot differences in the way, "we" protest against anything. I remember me on protests against TTIP, nuclear power (in special after Fukushima), mass surveillance, the strikes of the train drivers and pilots or the protests against the reforms of the former chancellor Gerhard Schröder. So I believe that there is no basically obedience to everything the state does. Perhaps the way to protest is longer because in my impression, there is a tradition of finding compromises in German society. Protests are normally just the last solutions, if the people did not a find a way to come together and that could be one answer of this impression you have. Another answer could be that in defiance of actual tendencies, there is big trust in German courts, in special of the German constitutional court (Bundesverfassungsgericht), which is in polls normally one of the most popular institutions of the state, cause the courts in Germany have more rights to defend the constitution the basic rights of the citizens but it does not change anything of the democratic character of the society.

@german hick: Du you come from Germany too?
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All I know is, right now some guy in Germany is uploading my copyrighted material to YouTube and YouTube seems unable to stop him, so I am guessing the German government isn't too strict on its people at all. They seem to be able to get away with a lot.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
All I know is, right now some guy in Germany is uploading my copyrighted material to YouTube and YouTube seems unable to stop him, so I am guessing the German government isn't too strict on its people at all. They seem to be able to get away with a lot.
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I don´t know the differences of the laws in the case of copyright among Germany/EU and the US. It is possible that the rules are slack but honestly I do not know it exactly, because it was never necessary for me to know it. Sorry. :( But the thing I just wanted to say is, that the picture about Germany as a more conservative or obedient society is not actual in my point of view.
 
german hick said:
I think you are. May be because the things you diskribe aren´t that way either.
I think each citizen of the states is at least as much spied on than the average German citizen. And mostly not by government but by private companies - most of them from the states btw ;o)

I think you have a very old fashioned view on this Country. Seems some 75 years old.. ;o)
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I agree with you. Private companies spy everywhere no matter the country. Right now we are giving our data that is worth some good money for free, no matter where we are (But a good deal of this private companies spy serve to Government as well). But at least nobody get punished or fined if decides to avoid using certain companies or even technologies. Every one receive a message accepting the terms.

I don't think I have an old fashion view of Germany, because what I described is based in my experience in the past 5 years. I have no Idea how was Germany before and I got very surprised when I learned all these things in Germany.
 
Sebastian F said:
I would disagree too. I do not see a lot differences in the way, "we" protest against anything. I remember me on protests against TTIP, nuclear power (in special after Fukushima), mass surveillance, the strikes of the train drivers and pilots or the protests against the reforms of the former chancellor Gerhard Schröder. So I believe that there is no basically obedience to everything the state does. Perhaps the way to protest is longer because in my impression, there is a tradition of finding compromises in German society. Protests are normally just the last solutions, if the people did not a find a way to come together and that could be one answer of this impression you have. Another answer could be that in defiance of actual tendencies, there is big trust in German courts, in special of the German constitutional court (Bundesverfassungsgericht), which is in polls normally one of the most popular institutions of the state, cause the courts in Germany have more rights to defend the constitution the basic rights of the citizens but it does not change anything of the democratic character of the society.

@german hick: Du you come from Germany too?
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The way I see it, is that Germans often protest and disagree with somethings, but once the authorities or the situation is settled Germans tend to accept the rule of the authority no matter what.

I don't know any other country where you have to give your address to the government and pay for it. Where you have to pay for media broadcast no matter what (unless if you earn money from JobCenter). There are groups of people who want boycott it but they are a small minority. The majority pay it even if they don't agree. In Ireland the Government tried to make citizens pay for what and the government gave up. The majority of people agreed not to pay for it if the government sent them the bill.

From my eyes, based on my experience in Germany, people seems to be very passive. And I think it is because the culture is more introvert.

On Reddit I was talking about a drunk man smoking inside the train, where is forbidden, that I was surprised nobody said a word for the man to stop smoking or leave the train. And the answers from Germans I got is that because the man knows the rule and he is an adult, so there was nothing they could do (which I disagree). What seems to me is that people see something wrong but instead of confronting it they try to accept and forget it.
If I was new in Germany I would approach the man without thinking and remind him that he should not smoke there. I could even take the cigarette from his mouth and smash it with my shoe if he didn't respected the law and the people inside the train. But based on past experiences I know people would stare at me as if I am the weirdo and not help me at all.

Of course I am generalizing. Different places in Germany will have some differences here and there.

Not that Germans should be like people in French. Than it would be too much... :lol:
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
All I know is, right now some guy in Germany is uploading my copyrighted material to YouTube and YouTube seems unable to stop him, so I am guessing the German government isn't too strict on its people at all. They seem to be able to get away with a lot.
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On the other hand, the GEMA in Germany blocks a lot of content on YouTube, but it seems to be only content from big corporation. I used to watch many music videos and short films in Ireland and Israel that in Germany is blocked. I felt part of my soul empty.
 
@CROIX

Ah, I see what you mean.^^ I cannot remember me, whether there was ever a real act of mass civil disobedience with one exception perhaps. Censuses are very unpopular and there are a lot of people who reject to answer it or to give correct answers. Acutually, we have a debate in parliament about abolishing a law which forbids to advertise for abortion, because there was a medicin who wrote repeatedly on his internet side, that he offers abortions too and he was accused for it a lot of times. However there is perhaps really another attitude to made decisions to accept them (until a certain limit of course). I will oberseve it next time, when I see news.^^ In which part of Germany do you were? Sorry for asking, but I am a little bit inquisitive. :mrgreen:
 
Ach, das ist ja nett. Ich dachte nicht, dass es hier noch jemanden aus Deutschland gibt. :)
 
oh yes, there are some more

but you wrote illegal - foreign languages are forbidden here.. ;) :D
 
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