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American-Turkish War? American Soldiers are Refusing to Leave Turkish Military Target

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WILL U.S. FIGHT TURKEY? AMERICAN SOLDIERS WILL NOT LEAVE CITY ABOUT TO BE ATTACKED, SAYS TOP GENERAL

BY TOM O'CONNOR ON 1/29/18 AT 12:45 PM

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A convoy of U.S. armored vehicles drives near the village of Yalanli, on the western outskirts of the northern Syrian city of Manbij, on March 5, 2017. Since ousting ISIS from the mixed Kurdish and Arab city, Manbij has been a flashpoint for the intersecting and opposing interests of the U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces, Turkey-backed Free Syrian Army and Russia-backed Syrian military.


The U.S. has so far stood aside as the Pentagon-backed Syrian Democratic Forces attempted to defend the northwestern district of Afrin from Turkey, a member of U.S.-led NATO alliance, and the formerly CIA-backed Free Syrian Army that has regularly targeted U.S. forces in the area. In November, the Pentagon revealed it had deployed more than 1,700 U.S. personnel to support the Syrian Democratic Forces battling ISIS in Syria.

While the Pentagon has reiterated its support for Kurdish members of the Syrian Democratic Forces still battling ISIS in rapidly shrinking pockets of territory in the east, U.S. military leadership has warned that the U.S.-led coalition would not support Kurdish efforts to reallocate resources to battle Turkey in the northwest. The U.S. has also warned Turkey that its operation was "impeding the task to eliminate ISIS" and President Donald Trump reportedly urged his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, to "exercise caution" in a phone call Wednesday.

Turkish officials, however, denied that Trump had made this request, and their forces pressed on with the bombardment of Kurd-controlled towns and villages. Turkey has likened the YPG to ISIS in the danger it posed because the Kurdish militia was thought to have direct connections to the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), a Kurdish militant organization that has waged a bloody campaign of guerrilla warfare against Turkish security forces for more than three decades.

Related:
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This is getting pretty ugly.

I think we might have a new Nazi Germany on our hands.

Kurds Say Turkey Plans to Reshape Demographics in Northern Syria

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Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan addresses his ruling party members in Ankara, Turkey, Jan. 26, 2018.

In a tweet, Fernandez warned, “If true, this would mean the ethnic cleansing of #Afrin right before our eyes is looming.”

Turkish officials dismiss the claim they intend to reorder ethnic populations in northern Syria. But they say they expect once the Turkish military offensive has secured territory that tens of thousands of Syrian refugees will flood back to their homes, much as thousands did in the wake of the 2016 Turkish incursion northeast of Aleppo.

Yazidi activists last week urged the United Nations to protect their 21 villages in the Afrin pocket, saying they are at serious risk because of Turkey’s military operation. A Yazidi advocacy group, Yazda, warned they will hold Turkey and Syrian rebel militias fighting alongside the Turks, responsible “if any persecution of cleansing takes place against our people.”
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This is getting really ****ing bad...
 
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Trump needs (another) reason to get US troops into (another) war ................... he is a Republican, after all ...........
 
cuban smokes said:
Trump needs (another) reason to get US troops into (another) war ................... he is a Republican, after all ...........
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Can we really say this is just a Republican thing? Obama spent all 8 years of his presidency at war. We bombed 7 different countries under him, three of which we didn't bomb under Bush.
 
Jesse Booth said:
Can we really say this is just a Republican thing? Obama spent all 8 years of his presidency at war. We bombed 7 different countries under him, three of which we didn't bomb under Bush.
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It's a American thing.
 
Jesse Booth said:
Can we really say this is just a Republican thing? Obama spent all 8 years of his presidency at war. We bombed 7 different countries under him, three of which we didn't bomb under Bush.
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No, but we definitely can say this is an American thing. A deeply evil American thing, Jesse. How can a body even suggest they could be proud of a country that has spent 93% of its years in a state of war?

How come people like the Germans can learn but learning is totally beyond Americans' ken?
 
washunut said:
Sounds to me like a Turkish thing. Saying it is an American thing reminds me of the saying: "Blame America First".
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Heeeeellllooooooo. The US is illegally in most of the Middle East.

This sounds remarkably like US propaganda meme # [___].
 
Turkey spent much of the 80's and the time since fighting the PKK and working to prevent Kurdish groups from trying to separate from Turkey (which has the largest number of Kurds in its boarders. It will do whatever it can to prevent an defacto independent Kurdish state on its boarder which could cause further separatist sentiments among Turkish Kurds. This has been an ongoing issue for Turkey long before Erdogan came into power, and will be one after he leaves.

In this case the US interests are directly opposing Turkish interests, and for Turkey this issue is far more important than a US/Turkish alliance

For those that doubt this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish–Turkish_conflict_(1978–present)
According to human rights organisations since the beginning of the uprising 4,000 villages have been destroyed,[272] in which between 380,000 and 1,000,000 Kurdish villagers have been forcibly evacuated from their homes, mainly by the Turkish military.[273] Some 5,000 Turks and 35,000 Kurds,[272] have been killed, 17,000 Kurds have disappeared and 119,000 Kurds have been imprisoned by Turkish authorities.[52][272] According to the Humanitarian Law Project, 2,400 Kurdish villages were destroyed and 18,000 Kurds were executed, by the Turkish government.[273] In total up to 3,000,000 people (mainly Kurds) have been displaced by the conflict,[56] an estimated 1,000,000 of which are still internally displaced as of 2009.[274] The Assyrian Minority was heavily affected as well, as now most (50–60 thousand/70,000) of its population is in refuge in Europe.
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Note the above in general took place long before Erdogan came to power. The AKP party has generally been nicer to Kurdish Turks than previous Turkish governments
 
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camlok said:
No, but we definitely can say this is an American thing. A deeply evil American thing, Jesse. How can a body even suggest they could be proud of a country that has spent 93% of its years in a state of war?

How come people like the Germans can learn but learning is totally beyond Americans' ken?
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Because everyone else in the world is worse. In WW2, there is not a single major power that took part in the conflict without committing genocide. The Japanese committed the Rape of Nanking and slaughtered countless non-Japanese natives, the Soviets purged millions of undesirables in the Holodomvor, and if you expand the frame of reference by just a few decades, the Chinese, Americans & Englishmen were just as rotten at some point or another, what with killing all the Indians, conquering the world & Mao's many atrocities.

The Americans, however, built the UN after the war and used the specter of WW2's horrors to compel other nations to join. We have bled (and continue to bleed) in scores of peacekeeping missions on behalf of the organization responsible for preventing WW3. We pay out of pocket to provide military protection to numerous countries that border nations that wish to see them cleansed from the Earth - without America, Japan, South Korea & Israel will fall to communism, fascism & Islamic fundamentalism, in that order. Europe no longer maintains massive armies because America foits the bill for their protection, maintaining dozens of bases throughout the continent. Even the African nations that suffered under colonialism are now developing and working to make their continent a better place, all because of a decolonization process we initiated. The Soviets wouldn't have done what we did, the British Empire wouldn't have done what we did, the Germans wouldn't have done what we did, the Japanese wouldn't have done what we did, and France & Italy were jokes, who gives a **** what they would do (even though they were pretty awful too).

I would love it if we stopped invading other countries. I would also love it if China stopped committing genocide in Tibet, if Russia stopped saber-rattling along every European nation they border, and if the Islamic world would stop executing apostates and homosexuals. But history does not paint a pretty picture of humankind, and someone has to be the biggest elephant in the room. If not the US, than who would you want to dominate the globe?
 
Jesse Booth said:
Can we really say this is just a Republican thing? Obama spent all 8 years of his presidency at war. We bombed 7 different countries under him, three of which we didn't bomb under Bush.
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The fake 'war on terror' is a bull**** scheme started by GW Bush, as a bull**** response to GW having been bitch slapped by his daddy's buddies @ the CIA

Obama was obligated to continue the fairy tale; thank God I never voted for either one of those asshats even tho' I had an opportunity to do so, twice, each ...........

Now, we have another Republican POTUS that wants to show the world how big his **** is by starting more wars ............. great ............
 
Jesse Booth said:
Because everyone else in the world is worse. In WW2, there is not a single major power that took part in the conflict without committing genocide. The Japanese committed the Rape of Nanking and slaughtered countless non-Japanese natives, the Soviets purged millions of undesirables in the Holodomvor, and if you expand the frame of reference by just a few decades, the Chinese, Americans & Englishmen were just as rotten at some point or another, what with killing all the Indians, conquering the world & Mao's many atrocities.

Why does this frame of reference, the deeply evil things the USA has always done since before it was a country, always go from outright denial to, "you are anti- American" and other such nonsense to pointing fingers at others?

1.The Americans, however, built the UN after the war and used the specter of WW2's horrors to compel other nations to join. 2. We have bled (and continue to bleed) in scores of peacekeeping missions on behalf of the organization responsible for preventing WW3. 3. We pay out of pocket to provide military protection to numerous countries that border nations that wish to see them cleansed from the Earth - without America, Japan, South Korea & Israel will fall to communism, fascism & Islamic fundamentalism, in that order.

Total claptrap, but a lot of it. 1. The USA got into WWII as a gigantic money making scheme.
They saw the huge potential for taking over destroyed Euro countries colonialist empires. The Japanese took as their measure of what to do from the USA Rape of the Philippines and other countries. The US had long been a partner with Japan and other Euro countries raping and pillaging China. The Opium Wars were all these countries fighting China to maintain their hegemony. The US fought to get a larger share for itself.

2. There is no bleeding save for the totally brainwashed young people who swallow all this nonsense, give up their lives to make the US MIC richer. What peace keeping missions has the US ever been involved in. The US joined with conservative Japanese troops in Korea before WWII was over to keep Korea for itself, just as it tried to do with Vietnam. It used terror and massive murder campaigns to ensure things were safe for their, note, ALWAYS BRUTAL,
VICIOUS RIGHT WING DICTATORSHIPS, - no democracies, no allowing the people of a country to determine thru free elections who they want to govern. Total hypocrisy given US history!

3. The US is the stingiest nation on the planet, ask Jimmy Carter, regularly spending much less than other nations and the US uses mostly Tied Aid, which, people in the know on foreign aid, say is really no aid at all. All products with tied aid have to go towards US products. Most countries of the world have abandoned tied aid but not the USA. It is meant to help place US business interests, not help the poor of the world. Speaking of the poor, the USA has stolen vast sums of wealth from most countries in the world.


Europe no longer maintains massive armies because America foits the bill for their protection, maintaining dozens of bases throughout the continent. Even the African nations that suffered under colonialism are now developing and working to make their continent a better place, all because of a decolonization process we initiated. The Soviets wouldn't have done what we did, the British Empire wouldn't have done what we did, the Germans wouldn't have done what we did, the Japanese wouldn't have done what we did, and France & Italy were jokes, who gives a **** what they would do (even though they were pretty awful too).

Provide some evidence for all these contentions.

I would love it if we stopped invading other countries. I would also love it if China stopped committing genocide in Tibet, if Russia stopped saber-rattling along every European nation they border, and if the Islamic world would stop executing apostates and homosexuals. But history does not paint a pretty picture of humankind, and someone has to be the biggest elephant in the room. If not the US, than who would you want to dominate the globe?
Click to expand...

No one needs to or has to dominate the globe. The US constantly whips up turmoil to justify its global raping and pillaging. One week after 911, ex-Gen Wesley Clark was told by a Pentagon general that the neo cons were going to invade Iraq. A week later, he was told, it's much worse - they have a plan to take out 7 countries in five years.

That is Hitler/Nazi level evil on a much much grander scale, a USA scale.
 
camlok said:
No one needs to or has to dominate the globe. The US constantly whips up turmoil to justify its global raping and pillaging. One week after 911, ex-Gen Wesley Clark was told by a Pentagon general that the neo cons were going to invade Iraq. A week later, he was told, it's much worse - they have a plan to take out 7 countries in five years.

That is Hitler/Nazi level evil on a much much grander scale, a USA scale.
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Decolonization is a well-known process the UN started with UN General Assembly Resolution 66 in 1946 and ended with UN General Assembly Resolution 1514 in 1960. America pushed the League of Nations after WW1, and we pushed the United Nations twice as hard after WW2. But of course, you would never admit that the US is the primary reason there isn't a single colony in Africa today. You would also never admit that we entered WW2 BECAUSE JAPAN LITERALLY ATTACKED US. No, it's all about those unspecified colonies we were going to take over from the European powers after the war, which you have yet to provide evidence of. Surely the colonies we stole are well-documented! Just link an article to me, a wikipedia entry, anything will suffice!

As for American military forces in Europe, that's simply common knowledge. There are 28 of them as of 2012, and we make up the majority of NATO forces. You're free to disprove any of that with evidence, if you want.

...Out of curiosity, what do you think the USSR would have done if they had been the only group taking back land the Nazis had conquered?
 
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camlok said:
No one needs to or has to dominate the globe. The US constantly whips up turmoil to justify its global raping and pillaging. One week after 911, ex-Gen Wesley Clark was told by a Pentagon general that the neo cons were going to invade Iraq. A week later, he was told, it's much worse - they have a plan to take out 7 countries in five years.

That is Hitler/Nazi level evil on a much much grander scale, a USA scale.
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1. Iraq invasion had nothing to do with 9/11.

2. GODWIN.....
 
camlok said:
Total claptrap, but a lot of it. 1. The USA got into WWII as a gigantic money making scheme.
They saw the huge potential for taking over destroyed Euro countries colonialist empires. The Japanese took as their measure of what to do from the USA Rape of the Philippines and other countries. The US had long been a partner with Japan and other Euro countries raping and pillaging China. The Opium Wars were all these countries fighting China to maintain their hegemony. The US fought to get a larger share for itself.
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Ignorance. he Japanese attacked us and Hitler declared war on us.

And we had no hand in the JAPANESE actions in China. This is pure fantasy.

camlok said:
2. There is no bleeding save for the totally brainwashed young people who swallow all this nonsense, give up their lives to make the US MIC richer. What peace keeping missions has the US ever been involved in. The US joined with conservative Japanese troops in Korea before WWII was over to keep Korea for itself, just as it tried to do with Vietnam. It used terror and massive murder campaigns to ensure things were safe for their, note, ALWAYS BRUTAL,
VICIOUS RIGHT WING DICTATORSHIPS, - no democracies, no allowing the people of a country to determine thru free elections who they want to govern. Total hypocrisy given US history!
Click to expand...

Well about the only thing you got right in this mess is Capitalizing the first word in sentences and ending with periods. The rest is complete and utter fabrication.

camlok said:
3. The US is the stingiest nation on the planet, ask Jimmy Carter, regularly spending much less than other nations and the US uses mostly Tied Aid, which, people in the know on foreign aid, say is really no aid at all. All products with tied aid have to go towards US products. Most countries of the world have abandoned tied aid but not the USA. It is meant to help place US business interests, not help the poor of the world. Speaking of the poor, the USA has stolen vast sums of wealth from most countries in the world. .
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And more claptrap...

Where do you get this BS from?
 
I'm not big on us being world police and despise quite a lot of the CIA's interference in the Cold War, but if we're going to get into wars of choice, I'm not going to take issue with stopping a would-be genocide.
 
camlok said:
Total claptrap, but a lot of it. 1. The USA got into WWII as a gigantic money making scheme.
They saw the huge potential for taking over destroyed Euro countries colonialist empires. The Japanese took as their measure of what to do from the USA Rape of the Philippines and other countries. The US had long been a partner with Japan and other Euro countries raping and pillaging China. The Opium Wars were all these countries fighting China to maintain their hegemony. The US fought to get a larger share for itself.
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What, so was Pearl Harbor actually a false flag? That is an absolutely ludicrous thing to say.

:LAMO
 
**** Turkey, we should make an example out of them. They want to start some ****, that's on them. We should decimate (reduce by 1/10th) their military, and send the footage to North Korea.

Other countries look at how we did a terrible job occupying the middle east, and think, oh I can start some ****. We may be bad at occupation, but we are still the best at ****ing your world right up. And we need to remind Russia, China, North Korea, and anyone else that thinks they can wear big boy pants and step up to us.

I hate Trump, like truly hate him. But I wouldn't bitch if he put us into a few wars at this time. We lost credibility and goodwill with the world when we elected him, so I'll settle for them fearing us. As they should. Only we get to complain about our President. Even if he is a raging dumpster fire. Everyone else needs to know a **** up President doesn't make us weak, and we won't stand to be challenged because of it.
 
Despite being right next door to Syria, you didn't see any German-made Turkish Leopard battle tanks or American-made Turkish F-16s attacking any ISIS forces.

On the contrary, Erdogan allowed tens of thousands of radical Islamists from all over the world free passage through Turkey to join up with ISIS.

He also made sure ISIS oil (that largely financed the terror group) found buyers at Turkish seaports.

Now Erdogan is killing the Syrian Kurds who have been decimating ISIS since late 2014.
 
A bit of cynical gallows humour coming, so be forewarned. I wonder how the US population will react if the Turks try to pass off American service personnel deaths in Syria by Turkish air and artillery strikes as unintentional "Collateral Damage" which could not be avoided? Will the American people continue to buy that sophistry if the shoe is firmly placed on the other foot?

Both Turkey and the USA are illegally in Syrian sovereign territory and both states should get the hell out now.

The Turks are becoming a very dangerous state with an unrestrained Erdogan at the helm and as Erdogan has gutted the Turkish Armed Forces leadership the traditional mechanism for reeling in an irresponsible political leadership in Turkey is now fang-less. The Americans are having to deal with the consequences of arming and using a potentially dangerous proxy army of Kurds because they refused to listen to Turkish protests and their own political sensibilities will no longer allow them to put American boots on the ground in their innumerable foreign wars of adventure. Both states need to step back from the line and the Kurds in Syria and also Iraq have to be disarmed.

I also wonder what the Americans would do if the Turks closed down American operations at Incirlik Air-force Base in Turkey? I also wonder what might happen if America entered hostilities with Turkey and then Turkey closed the Bosporus to American shipping and military vessels in the Black Sea. We live in interesting times!

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
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ThoughtEx. said:
**** Turkey, we should make an example out of them. They want to start some ****, that's on them. We should decimate (reduce by 1/10th) their military, and send the footage to North Korea.

Other countries look at how we did a terrible job occupying the middle east, and think, oh I can start some ****. We may be bad at occupation, but we are still the best at ****ing your world right up. And we need to remind Russia, China, North Korea, and anyone else that thinks they can wear big boy pants and step up to us.
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Except going to with Turkey would be insane. It's an operation quite possibly out of the reach of the US Armed forces today.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Except going to with Turkey would be insane. It's an operation quite possibly out of the reach of the US Armed forces today.
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If that's true then why are we spending more than every developed nation combined on our military. If we can't take Turkey, then how can we justify this level of spending on defense against countries like Russia and China who spend a fraction of what we do.

No, we would roll over Turkey.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
If that's true then why are we spending more than every developed nation combined on our military. If we can't take Turkey, then how can we justify this level of spending on defense against countries like Russia and China who spend a fraction of what we do.

No, we would roll over Turkey.
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The US would win but it would not be a cake walk.

Turkey if I am not mistaken has the second largest army after the US in NATO with fairly modern equipment for the most part based on US and other NATO countries designs. It also hosts a major NATO air base which last I recall has gravity nuclear weapons along with significant US air force assets. Losing Turkey as an ally would be a far greater loss to US strategic interests than losing the Kurds as an ally. For Turkey an independent Kurdish state is a far larger strategic threat than the loss of the US as an ally
 
Mr Person said:
What, so was Pearl Harbor actually a false flag? That is an absolutely ludicrous thing to say.

:LAMO
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You convinced me with your lamo.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
No, we would roll over Turkey.
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No, we wouldn't.

The Turkish Armed forces are the second largest in NATO after us, with close to 900,000 active and reserve personnel. Also, the entirety of Turkey is basically a giant ****ing plateau, incredibly mountainous and easily defensible. Most of the industry and population are centered or in the west, which is some of the most rugged terrain in the country. Not to mention, unlike the Iraqis, the Turks have a strong national identity and have demonstrated none of the incompetence you typically see in Arab militaries.

It would require far more manpower and resources than we are willing to offer to invade Turkey. The idea of going to war with them is ludicrous.
 
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