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American-Turkish War? American Soldiers are Refusing to Leave Turkish Military Target

To me, at least, the signs of a dictatorship are when you see HUGE...REALLY HUGE face posters of their leader like in the OP 's first post.
They all did it, and are still doing it.
That to me is a sign of a dictatorship under any other name.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
No, we wouldn't.

The Turkish Armed forces are the second largest in NATO after us, with close to 900,000 active and reserve personnel. Also, the entirety of Turkey is basically a giant ****ing plateau, incredibly mountainous and easily defensible. Most of the industry and population are centered or in the west, which is some of the most rugged terrain in the country. Not to mention, unlike the Iraqis, the Turks have a strong national identity and have demonstrated none of the incompetence you typically see in Arab militaries.

It would require far more manpower and resources than we are willing to offer to invade Turkey. The idea of going to war with them is ludicrous.
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It would be a bitch to occupy them, but I'm not calling for occupation. I'm calling for a bitch slap. We don't even need to field an army to do that. Just park the navy off the coast and let them do what they do. Warfare has changed since WW2, we don't need to do land invasions to decimate their forces.

Hell a kid sitting a shopping mall drinking mountain dew could do it in an afternoon.
 
PleasantValley said:
To me, at least, the signs of a dictatorship are when you see HUGE...REALLY HUGE face posters of their leader like in the OP 's first post.
They all did it, and are still doing it.
That to me is a sign of a dictatorship under any other name.
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Your sign of a dictatorship is ridiculous. Our government does not cease to be a federal republic with an extensive system of checks & balances just because Trump is full of himself. He can't limit our constitutional rights without at least 75 senators and 326 representatives to get together and agree exactly on how to replace a certain Amendment. Unless we get to the point where more than 3/4 of our legislative branch are literal Nazis who all agree perfectly with each other, we're never going to see a legal dictatorship in this country.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
The US would win but it would not be a cake walk.

Turkey if I am not mistaken has the second largest army after the US in NATO with fairly modern equipment for the most part based on US and other NATO countries designs. It also hosts a major NATO air base which last I recall has gravity nuclear weapons along with significant US air force assets. Losing Turkey as an ally would be a far greater loss to US strategic interests than losing the Kurds as an ally. For Turkey an independent Kurdish state is a far larger strategic threat than the loss of the US as an ally
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****em, don't need em. Don't care about the Kurds either. **** the whole region. Been having to deal with Middle Eastern bull**** for almost two decades now. Either we need to stop *****footing around and establish complete dominance, or leave them the **** alone. And this guy just became a dictator, and is challenging us. We don't back down from dictators because we need them as friends. Do it once, and they will **** with us again. We bitch slap dictators. Just like you bitch slap the uppity drunk **** at your party when he gets in your face.

If I had my way, I'd drop a large bomb right on every dictators bathroom, on the same day.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
It would be a bitch to occupy them, but I'm not calling for occupation. I'm calling for a bitch slap. We don't even need to field an army to do that. Just park the navy off the coast and let them do what they do. Warfare has changed since WW2, we don't need to do land invasions to decimate their forces.

Hell a kid sitting a shopping mall drinking mountain dew could do it in an afternoon.
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What part of "their technology is on par with ours" did you not understand? Turkey has a navy too, and an air force & artillery and even their own nukes. They are also a far more important ally than the Kurds.
 
Jesse Booth said:
What part of "their technology is on par with ours" did you not understand? Turkey has a navy too, and an air force & artillery and even their own nukes. They are also a far more important ally than the Kurds.
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Oh I understand it, I'm just not afraid of fighting on an even field. Everyones all for invading desert villages where the people have 40 year old rifles and pick up trucks. But a dictator with a navy and an airforce and we are shaking in our boots? **** that noise. We back down, and every tom dick and harry is going to start taking shots at us.

It's easy to say your fighting for freedom when a bunch of uneducated goat herders with no ability to hit you back at home is the target. But when a bully with a little muscle starts spouting off we are all nope can't do that. **** that. When did Americans become cowards.

And if they were our ally, they wouldn't be playing a game of chicken with us. They elected a President for life, no one wants to be President for life unless they are planning some ****ed up ****.
 
Jesse Booth said:
What part of "their technology is on par with ours" did you not understand? Turkey has a navy too, and an air force & artillery and even their own nukes. They are also a far more important ally than the Kurds.
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Note

Turkey does not have their own nukes. The US has gravity bomb nukes at a Turkish Air base
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Just park the navy off the coast and let them do what they do.
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Oh that's a brilliant ****ing strategy. Put out naval assets right off the coastline of a nation armed with modern anti-ship batteries, aircraft and ballistic missiles. That's not a stupid idea at all.
 
camlok said:
You convinced me with your lamo.
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I wasn't trying to "convince" you. I was noting that absurdity of claiming that we entered WWII for any reason other than that Japan bombed us and Germany declared war.

I wouldn't spend much effort on debating whether the moon is made of cheese either.
 
Jesse Booth said:
Your sign of a dictatorship is ridiculous. Our government does not cease to be a federal republic with an extensive system of checks & balances just because Trump is full of himself. He can't limit our constitutional rights without at least 75 senators and 326 representatives to get together and agree exactly on how to replace a certain Amendment. Unless we get to the point where more than 3/4 of our legislative branch are literal Nazis who all agree perfectly with each other, we're never going to see a legal dictatorship in this country.
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That's what you like to pretend to think because it keeps you safe.

"The American government could already be described as authoritarian... Due process of law and the right of habeas corpus, which for centuries have characterized the rule of law in democratic states, have been eliminated. At the discretion of the president, non-citizens and citizens alike may be classified as enemy combatants, picked up and held for an indeterminate period of time without access to counsel. A network of secret prisons and camps is being established both inside and outside of the United States. Paramilitary forces or private mercenary armies are being developed to make up for the inadequate numbers of the existing volunteer army. This is effectively resulting in the privatization of the US military." - William F. Pepper in his book "An Act of State: the Execution of Martin Luther King"
 
PleasantValley said:
To me, at least, the signs of a dictatorship are when you see HUGE...REALLY HUGE face posters of their leader like in the OP 's first post.
They all did it, and are still doing it.
That to me is a sign of a dictatorship under any other name.
Click to expand...

Pleasant Valley:

Look up the term, "Inverted Totalitarianism" (coined by Sheldon Wolin) to see the new non-face of despotism. Dictators are passe in the West, at least for now.

https://press.princeton.edu/titles/11159.html

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
And people wonder if there really are Russian agents posting on DP. Trolls are best ignored, just saying.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
If that's true then why are we spending more than every developed nation combined on our military. If we can't take Turkey, then how can we justify this level of spending on defense against countries like Russia and China who spend a fraction of what we do.

No, we would roll over Turkey.
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ThoughtEx:

War is the violent application of force to impose a will and purpose on the enemy. The US has the kit to make war on Turkey but lacks the will and purpose. The US electorate and the US street would not support such a war and nor would Russia. Turkey lacks the kit but has the will and purpose to defend the Anatolian and European territories of Turkey to the last. You would lose and likely trigger a regional war and perhaps a thermonuclear exchange with Russia. If you did conduct a punitive military raid on Turkey they would seize your military personnel and nuclear weapons at Incirlik Air Base and close the Bosporus to US military shipping, effectively cutting off US naval forces in the Black Sea operating in support of Ukraine. Furthermore you would be attacking a member state of NATO and Turkey might invoke Article 5 which would make a mess of the alliance.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
Evilroddy said:
ThoughtEx:

War is the violent application of force to impose a will and purpose on the enemy. The US has the kit to make war on Turkey but lacks the will and purpose. The US electorate and the US street would not support such a war and nor would Russia. Turkey lacks the kit but has the will and purpose to defend the Anatolian and European territories of Turkey to the last. You would lose and likely trigger a regional war and perhaps a thermonuclear exchange with Russia. If you did conduct a punitive military raid on Turkey they would seize your military personnel and nuclear weapons at Incirlik Air Base and close the Bosporus to US military shipping, effectively cutting off US naval forces in the Black Sea operating in support of Ukraine. Furthermore you would be attacking a member state of NATO and Turkey might invoke Article 5 which would make a mess of the alliance.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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Welp, nothing much for me to add beyond this. Turkey's not worth fighting in favor of the Kurds, they're too costly in lives and equipment to justify showing off how big our collective dick is, and they're literally allied with us. There's just no advantage to attacking them.
 
camlok said:
That's what you like to pretend to think because it keeps you safe.

"The American government could already be described as authoritarian... Due process of law and the right of habeas corpus, which for centuries have characterized the rule of law in democratic states, have been eliminated. At the discretion of the president, non-citizens and citizens alike may be classified as enemy combatants, picked up and held for an indeterminate period of time without access to counsel. A network of secret prisons and camps is being established both inside and outside of the United States. Paramilitary forces or private mercenary armies are being developed to make up for the inadequate numbers of the existing volunteer army. This is effectively resulting in the privatization of the US military." - William F. Pepper in his book "An Act of State: the Execution of Martin Luther King"
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I will fully admit that the Patriot Act & Gitmo are existential threats to the US that need to be cleansed like an infectious boil, but "secret prisons and camps" are frankly unnecessary when we already have one in plain sight.
 
cuban smokes said:
The fake 'war on terror' is a bull**** scheme started by GW Bush, as a bull**** response to GW having been bitch slapped by his daddy's buddies @ the CIA

Obama was obligated to continue the fairy tale; thank God I never voted for either one of those asshats even tho' I had an opportunity to do so, twice, each ...........

Now, we have another Republican POTUS that wants to show the world how big his **** is by starting more wars ............. great ............
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What better thing could there be for the military industrial alliance than an unseen enemy, no strategy and no end?

Do Americans remember that Dick Cheney was the honcho at Halliburton 'til 2000 before he selected himself as VP? Do they realize the enormous wealth he accumulated afterward?

It's business, not war.
 
Evilroddy said:
ThoughtEx:

War is the violent application of force to impose a will and purpose on the enemy. The US has the kit to make war on Turkey but lacks the will and purpose. The US electorate and the US street would not support such a war and nor would Russia. Turkey lacks the kit but has the will and purpose to defend the Anatolian and European territories of Turkey to the last. You would lose and likely trigger a regional war and perhaps a thermonuclear exchange with Russia. If you did conduct a punitive military raid on Turkey they would seize your military personnel and nuclear weapons at Incirlik Air Base and close the Bosporus to US military shipping, effectively cutting off US naval forces in the Black Sea operating in support of Ukraine. Furthermore you would be attacking a member state of NATO and Turkey might invoke Article 5 which would make a mess of the alliance.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
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We've got foreign interests meddling in our elections, China manipulating our economy, Dictators trying to dictate to us, and allies advancing on us and making us choose between them and a smaller weaker ally. It's time to **** or get off the pot. It's time we take our "ally" and beat him bloody, and hold his broken form up to the rest of the world and say stop ****ing with us. This is what we do to our allies. Imagine what we'll do to you.

And let's be clear, NATO needs us more than we need them. So let em bitch, whine, whatever. They aren't going to risk losing our funding, hardware, and manpower protecting them.

And here's a thought, move our **** out of Turkey before they seize it.

As far as Russia goes, they won't do ****. And if they do, bring it. Putin needs a tune up.

And if everyone agrees that we would lose with a power like Turkey, then maybe we should stop spending so much money on an inferior force. If all we get for our dollar is a flashy military only good for intimidating goat herders and bombing civilians, then it's time we divert that spending to something useful. And stop pretending like we are the greatest country on the planet.

I'm tired of walking quietly and carrying a big stick, where has it gotten us? Trillions in debt, enemies on all sides, and allies taking from us and testing how far they can push us. It's time to use the stick.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
We've got foreign interests meddling in our elections, China manipulating our economy, Dictators trying to dictate to us, and allies advancing on us and making us choose between them and a smaller weaker ally. It's time to **** or get off the pot. It's time we take our "ally" and beat him bloody, and hold his broken form up to the rest of the world and say stop ****ing with us. This is what we do to our allies. Imagine what we'll do to you.

And let's be clear, NATO needs us more than we need them. So let em bitch, whine, whatever. They aren't going to risk losing our funding, hardware, and manpower protecting them.

And here's a thought, move our **** out of Turkey before they seize it.

As far as Russia goes, they won't do ****. And if they do, bring it. Putin needs a tune up.

And if everyone agrees that we would lose with a power like Turkey, then maybe we should stop spending so much money on an inferior force. If all we get for our dollar is a flashy military only good for intimidating goat herders and bombing civilians, then it's time we divert that spending to something useful. And stop pretending like we are the greatest country on the planet.

I'm tired of walking quietly and carrying a big stick, where has it gotten us? Trillions in debt, enemies on all sides, and allies taking from us and testing how far they can push us. It's time to use the stick.
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Do you want to get into a nuclear war with Russia? Because this is exactly how you get into a nuclear war with Russia. And a preemptive attack from Turkey when we suddenly shift all of our military equipment out of our bases and start moving our military forces toward them. And sanctions from NATO & the UN.

But hey, we get to show all of our allies how unstable and dangerous we are, so I guess that's a plus.
 
People actually claiming Pearl Harbor is a false flag now. Lord what have we done...
 
Jesse Booth said:
Do you want to get into a nuclear war with Russia? Because this is exactly how you get into a nuclear war with Russia. And a preemptive attack from Turkey when we suddenly shift all of our military equipment out of our bases and start moving our military forces toward them. And sanctions from NATO & the UN.

But hey, we get to show all of our allies how unstable and dangerous we are, so I guess that's a plus.
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Yes, exactly, now you are getting it. We are crazy mother****ers. It's Trumpanzees world now, and that's prison rules. Prison rules states you step up to me in the yard, Im takin you down.

**** Russia, they ain't goin to get in a nukin war over Turkey.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Yes, exactly, now you are getting it. We are crazy mother****ers. It's Trumpanzees world now, and that's prison rules. Prison rules states you step up to me in the yard, Im takin you down.

**** Russia, they ain't goin to get in a nukin war over Turkey.
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Oh, you're not actually completely retarded. You certainly had me going for a while.
 
washunut said:
Sounds to me like a Turkish thing. Saying it is an American thing reminds me of the saying: "Blame America First".
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It's a Turkish thing because its right on their border. Why are we even there?
 
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