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What will bitcoin bring in the end?

C R O I X said:
You keep repeating you are not in the game. Yet you are spread the greed game for the fool market. If you were not in the game you would not be talking about bitcoin.
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The thread is about Bitcoin. The mob here is against Bitcoin. Humans have a tendency and vulnerability to acquiesce to the mob. And there is an emotional reaction by many when a mob forms to try and play middle ground--as though both sides have a valid point. I won't play that middle ground with Bitcoin no more than I would with a mob in a village of Iran wanting to stone a woman to death because she is accused of committing adultery.

This use of the term "greed" is meaningless to me. Go say it to a Democrat who likes to get caught up in emotionalism. This is money.

The thread is about Bitcoin, so, I have no choice if I'm in this thread but to talk about Bitcoin and use the word "Bitcoin" just like you just did.

I don't gamble at Potawatomi Casino in Milwaukee. Many people do, sufficient enough numbers that I know some years ago they had the most profitable slot machines of any casino in the USA, the casino was pulling in $1 million a day just on its slot machines. Now, just because I can talk about that Milwaukee casino or the casinos in Las Vegas, does not make me part of the casino gambling scene.

So, $4,000 per night for that Potawatomi hotel room, compared to my tiny less than $100 in crypto, yeah... I'm alright being called "greedy."

And for the record, I am not "spreading greed" just because I disagree with the anti-crypto mob. I went to college to learn, not merely to recite what the mob says. Ergo, I already knew from taking economic courses that the US dollar and belief in it is metaphysical, which this mainstream news article more or less confirms. But that FreedomFromAll character (talking like he has never taken a single economics course) was yapping on about Bitcoin has no value. Our paper money has no intrinsic value. Our papewr money is based on belief, no, actually religious faith. That's what they teach you in college: "The US dollar is backed by the full faith and trust in the Us Government." So, I asked a professor once, "What do they mean by that?" And he replied, "It means other countries and people have faith the US Government will always payback on it's loans to other nations and never default."

Oh but wait.... why is are ballooning national debt so important and issue? Reason: because the higher it goes the more interest we pay on the principle. And we could reach a point in which the cost is so high the US Government won't be able to repay the loans and defaults. The US Government's response? Create a US dollar bubble (you all are only looking in one direction, at a Bitcoin bubble) by creating more US dollars while blowing the national debt even higher. Basically, the US dollar might become similar to Zimbabwe's currency with it's $10,000 note or whatever the hell it is.





https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/former-fdic-chair-sheila-bair-shouldnt-ban-bitcoin-141019569.html


[Yahoo Finance]

Sheila Bair

Yahoo FinanceDecember 26, 2017

Since the beginning of commerce, humans have assigned value to things of no readily-apparent intrinsic worth. Particularly in the case of mediums of exchange, aka currency, we assign value simply because those with whom we transact do so as well. Whether it is the cowry shells of ancient India or the thin green pieces of paper many of us still carry in our wallets today, worth depends more on psychology than physical attributes.
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The number of businesses and individuals recognizing bitcoin as a medium of exchange is of sufficient scale to belie attempts to label it as worthless. And the promise of bitcoin, eventual widespread acceptance that would allow direct, peer-to-peer transactions with anyone in the world, has a strong allure. Moreover, unlike fiat currency, its finite supply and purposeful constraints on the pace of “mining” make it attractive to many as a store of value, similar to gold.
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That's your mainstream news. And said what I said earlier--in essence at least--that the US dollar is metaphysical, belief in it as "worth something," and anything that is accepted widely for use as a medium of exchange has as much "value" as any paper currency.

And I'm not telling anyone to buy anything. In fact if you don't want to buy any crypto I recommend you don't. And if you claim you are terrified to put in money into it then don't, problem solved.
 
What will Bitcoin bring in the end? Tears and suffering, mostly.


Lionsun6 said:
The initially idea of bitcoin was to create a currency that is not under the control of the central bank... And the desire for such currency has grew stronger with each financial crisis that the world faces.
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You mean, all none of the crises that have happened since Bitcoin was created?


But looking today, is bitcoin still able to be that currency that it is initially design to be?
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Nope. Not even close.

Its very design undermines its functionality as a currency. The lack of control over the supply means that its valuation fluctuates wildly; there is nothing and no one that can stabilize the currency. Instead, speculators actively try to destabilize and deflate the currency, basically as a way of making Free Money by fleecing other unwise and/or unlucky speculators.


The sad thing is that it has not been given enough time, supports and opportunities to truly evolve into a replacement currency for the fiat currency.
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It's not sad. It's inevitable.

There is no way to avoid this happening to any cryptocurrency, as long as and because it is not backed by anything, and is not controlled by any entity.


Bitcoin do has the potential to be a currency that can unite all currencies of the world into a currency with no boundary nor nationality.
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No, it really doesn't. If BTC became anything remotely like a reserve currency, it would be a disaster for all and sundry. Purchasing power would fluctuate too wildly; transaction fees keep going up; the incentives to hack the system and exchanges would be even stronger than they are now.

Plus, a "one world currency" generates major problems of its own. In particular, it will get tripped up by the Impossible Trilemma. Namely, your currency can only do at most two of the following:

• Free flow of capital
• Fixed exchange rate
• Sovereign monetary policy

Bitcoin allows the first (free flow of capital) but cannot establish the 2nd or 3rd. You can't fix the exchange rate, because no one controls the supply. Nations also lose the ability to manage their own monetary policy.

The reality is that governments rarely blow up their own currencies for short-sighted gains -- and those which do, would just screw up their country by some other means instead. The boosters of cryptocurrency are driven to distraction by their own paranoia about governments doing what governments should do, such as provide a stable means of exchange.


I believe that the only currency that can truly obtain fairness in the exchange of transactions can only be the currency created through the value based monetary system under the Purification Social Order.
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If cryptocurrency is going to yoke us under some insane utopian quasi-religious One World Government, then that is just one more reason to count me out.
 
FastPace said:
The thread is about Bitcoin. The mob here is against Bitcoin. Humans have a tendency and vulnerability to acquiesce to the mob. And there is an emotional reaction by many when a mob forms to try and play middle ground--as though both sides have a valid point. I won't play that middle ground with Bitcoin no more than I would with a mob in a village of Iran wanting to stone a woman to death because she is accused of committing adultery.

This use of the term "greed" is meaningless to me. Go say it to a Democrat who likes to get caught up in emotionalism. This is money.

The thread is about Bitcoin, so, I have no choice if I'm in this thread but to talk about Bitcoin and use the word "Bitcoin" just like you just did.

I don't gamble at Potawatomi Casino in Milwaukee. Many people do, sufficient enough numbers that I know some years ago they had the most profitable slot machines of any casino in the USA, the casino was pulling in $1 million a day just on its slot machines. Now, just because I can talk about that Milwaukee casino or the casinos in Las Vegas, does not make me part of the casino gambling scene.

So, $4,000 per night for that Potawatomi hotel room, compared to my tiny less than $100 in crypto, yeah... I'm alright being called "greedy."

And for the record, I am not "spreading greed" just because I disagree with the anti-crypto mob. I went to college to learn, not merely to recite what the mob says. Ergo, I already knew from taking economic courses that the US dollar and belief in it is metaphysical, which this mainstream news article more or less confirms. But that FreedomFromAll character (talking like he has never taken a single economics course) was yapping on about Bitcoin has no value. Our paper money has no intrinsic value. Our papewr money is based on belief, no, actually religious faith. That's what they teach you in college: "The US dollar is backed by the full faith and trust in the Us Government." So, I asked a professor once, "What do they mean by that?" And he replied, "It means other countries and people have faith the US Government will always payback on it's loans to other nations and never default."

Oh but wait.... why is are ballooning national debt so important and issue? Reason: because the higher it goes the more interest we pay on the principle. And we could reach a point in which the cost is so high the US Government won't be able to repay the loans and defaults. The US Government's response? Create a US dollar bubble (you all are only looking in one direction, at a Bitcoin bubble) by creating more US dollars while blowing the national debt even higher. Basically, the US dollar might become similar to Zimbabwe's currency with it's $10,000 note or whatever the hell it is.





https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/former-fdic-chair-sheila-bair-shouldnt-ban-bitcoin-141019569.html







That's your mainstream news. And said what I said earlier--in essence at least--that the US dollar is metaphysical, belief in it as "worth something," and anything that is accepted widely for use as a medium of exchange has as much "value" as any paper currency.

And I'm not telling anyone to buy anything. In fact if you don't want to buy any crypto I recommend you don't. And if you claim you are terrified to put in money into it then don't, problem solved.
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The value of money is more than faith but the value of its use in the real world. People have faith on them because it creates value on the real world. Faith alone is called bubble. Most people are attracted by Bitcoin not because of its value in the real world market.

Real world evidence and not mob:

1. Bitcoin value is over inflated.
2. A lot of people if not most are betting on Bitcoin not as currency transaction but as passive income trading.
3. Those who most make money as Bitcoin passive income try their best to most over inflate its value, as well have more people buying their over inflated bitcoin.
4. A lot of naive people who are no aware of the items above or believing they can become one of them are the fools who eventually will loose a lot of money.
5. There are much better/safer options of trading passive income as well as electronic currency for payments (cheaper, faster, safer, more accepted by the market, more trusted and not over inflated valued).

If you have better evidence than that, please state it without writing an essay talking about people, brand, words analyses and other not really to the point matters.
 
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FastPace said:
The thread is about Bitcoin. The mob here is against Bitcoin. Humans have a tendency and vulnerability to acquiesce to the mob.
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Whatever, dude


This use of the term "greed" is meaningless to me. Go say it to a Democrat who likes to get caught up in emotionalism. This is money.
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Yeah, man! What kind of whacko would talk about greed and money in the same sentence? Oh, wait.... :mrgreen:


And for the record, I am not "spreading greed" just because I disagree with the anti-crypto mob. I went to college to learn, not merely to recite what the mob says. Ergo, I already knew from taking economic courses that the US dollar and belief in it is metaphysical, which this mainstream news article more or less confirms.
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Does that mean you didn't learn about monetary policy and international trade in those classes? 'Cause it kinda seems that way.


Our paper money has no intrinsic value. Our papewr money is based on belief, no, actually religious faith. That's what they teach you in college: "The US dollar is backed by the full faith and trust in the Us Government." So, I asked a professor once, "What do they mean by that?" And he replied, "It means other countries and people have faith the US Government will always payback on it's loans to other nations and never default."
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Yep, your prof is right. The USD is stable because of that belief.

In contrast, no one can truly be trusted with Bitcoin. We see the code, but we don't know who programmed it, we don't know a lot of people who hold it (especially now with futures and other obscuring instruments coming into play), we don't know how many BTC Satoshi is sitting on, we don't know how it might fork in the future, or if someone will mine enough to execute a 51% hack, or if some snot-nosed 13 year old in Russia will hack my online wallet, or if Coindesk will have a MtGox-like meltdown next week.


Oh but wait.... why is are ballooning national debt so important and issue? Reason: because the higher it goes the more interest we pay on the principle.
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Interest on the debt is around $230bn. Federal revenues are around $2.2 trillion.

We are a long, long, long way away from anything resembling a default based on an inability to pay.


The US Government's response? Create a US dollar bubble (you all are only looking in one direction, at a Bitcoin bubble) by creating more US dollars while blowing the national debt even higher. Basically, the US dollar might become similar to Zimbabwe's currency with it's $10,000 note or whatever the hell it is.
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Sorry to be rude, but: That's total bull****.

In 2007, global and US credit markets froze rock solid. No one could borrow anything on the paper market. If this was allowed to continue, the global economy would have melted down. It was the US government that unfroze those markets, with steps like lowering interest rates and quantitative easing -- steps not available with uncontrolled cryptocurrencies.

These policies did not cause hyperinflation, because we were in a liquidity trap. The hysterics screeched about hyperinflation, year after year, and it kept Not Happening. Now, the Fed is reducing its balance sheet and gradually raising interest rates, i.e. doing the exact opposite of what you describe.

The Fed in particular watches inflation rates like a hawk, and will not do anything to cause even double-digit inflation, let alone Zimbabwe-style hyperinflation. Those kinds of claims are at best ignorant, at worst a deliberate attack on the concept of governance.
 
FastPace said:
Yeah, yeah, greed. A drug cartel in Mexico is greedy when they can't be satisfied with the $100 million a year profits they make, they want the whole pie, and so they wage war to expand and topple other cartel rivals, kind of like the USA pushing up on the boarder of Russia because US corporations (and their bought servants called US politicians) perceive Central Europe as the region of the world that has the natural resources that will make it rich and powerful in the 21st century.

Why the USA has a problem with Russia (one of the most influential books written effecting US policy towards Eurasia today):



If US corporations rape Central Asia of its natural resources that "wealth" is not going to "trickle down to me" no matter how many Democratic Party politicians will eventually claim that. Cryptocurrency on the other hand... now this not only is a less violent and less imperialistic way for me to eventually (hopefully) increase my wealth but it is also a more likely way than me hoping and dreaming conflict with Russia will "trickle down money" to me.

And make what system better? The blockchain? Ethereum already did that as it is 2G (Second Generation) crypto technology. There are other currently working on 3G (3rd Generation).

Listen... I was raised middle-class therefore I was raised to be too stupid to get rich. So, how do I try to jump that hurdle now? I listen to winners, rich people, and not losers and the frightened middle-class. The only thing the middle-class knows how to do is wake up and obey orders or drink the juice of their Lords in the two political parties. What I have learned from rich investors is you make money doing the contrarian thing. Many are waiting for 3G to happen, I want to get in on the action before it is happening and while 3G is being developed. Call it "greed" I don't give a damn. As the dice and card gamblers in the hood say, "Scared money don't make money." I think Jesus says something in the Bible about being so damn frightened you bury your money rather ever investing it too. Currently, I have less than $100 (US dollars) spread throughout a few Altcoins. As I have said, I've up more money than that in crack cocaine in an hour. I've blown--in the past--over $1,000 in one day on smoking crack. I ain't afraid of NOTHIN with the midget money I have in crypto. I sleep like a baby. You afraid to put $30 in crypto, your knees shake, you have thoughts of suicide, can't sleep? Then don't put the money in. Simple. But me? I'll walk like a pimp even if I lose the money.
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I am not interested on all that comparison that has nothing to do with bitcoin. You are just trying hard to blindly defend your closed pre formulated argument, which despite you constantly repeating not being in the game, it is obvious your judgment is based on strong emotional attachment to political orientation, using bitcoin as support to such political orientation.
 
Northern Light said:
I know, but the fact remains. They're the beginning of a new infrastructure.
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Bitcoin transaction fees increase as more transactions are made. Thus, when it comes to the BTC infrastructure, we should expect fees to continue to rise.
 
Visbek said:
Bitcoin transaction fees increase as more transactions are made. Thus, when it comes to the BTC infrastructure, we should expect fees to continue to rise.
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Yeah, and that makes it less useful for small transactions. Right now, if you want your transaction to go through quickly (1 block) it costs around $30. And that is regardless of the amount you are sending. Now, if you are sending thousands of dollars worth like I tend to do, that is a very reasonable rate compared to bank wire fees. But if you just want to buy something that costs, say, $50, then that sucks.

People like me, who just use BTC as a means of exchange, can’t wait until all these speculators move on to something else.
 
C R O I X said:
The value of money is more than faith but the value of its use in the real world. People have faith on them because it creates value on the real world. Faith alone is called bubble. Most people are attracted by Bitcoin not because of its value in the real world market.
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You have never taken an economics course have you? You're talking like the equivalent of an Intelligent Designer.

I don't care if the Theory of Evolution is wrong or if the what economics courses in American schools teach is wrong. The bottom line is this: the official explanation of what backs the US dollar: "Full faith and trust and in the United States Government." I paraphrase from memory.

I already told you I asked my professor what that meant. Let me repeat it again what he said, and I paraphrase: "It means, that other countries and other people have trust and confidence that the United States Government will always pay back its loans and not default."

Outside formal academia there is a different conception and explanation called "The Petro Dollar."

Problem is the US dollar is about to be dropped as the only Petro currency. One would know that if they listen to news outside mainstream US news. Rather than limit themselves to only US mainstream news. That drop may not happen right away or maybe not even begin in the next 2 or 3 years but however fast or slow it will come.


 
C R O I X said:
1. Bitcoin value is over inflated.
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Explain how that is?

There are 300+ Americans. In terms of cars equaling number of Bitcoins there would have to be only 21 million cars possible in the United States. Do you really think if only 21 cars existed in the USA the price of those cars would drop or remain the same?

But more importantly about Bitcoin being in a bubble or not: I don't care. If you care and believe so, then don't buy any.


2. A lot of people if not most are betting on Bitcoin not as currency transaction but as passive income trading.
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Again, I don't care. I know more care than the existence of casinos in Las Vegas and all the many people gambling (and loosing their rent money, mortgage money, school money) in the casino in Milwaukee.

Most my coins are Cardano. I only use Bitcoin to buy Altcoins. Only purpose. I don't "save," "speculate," or use Bitcoin to "buy things." I give a f__ who does. I care about it as much as I do 2 men blowing each other.

I save my Altcoins. Why? I don't know... go ask Asians why they save money in their banks unlike Americans who are taught never to save a dime but blow all their money buying things (ergo, why some of you are angry with those that buy Bitcoin just to *save* them and then with to sell most or all of them off once the price goes up high.)


3. Those who most make money as Bitcoin passive income try their best to most over inflate its value, as well have more people buying their over inflated bitcoin.
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Okay, again, math has no emotions. There are only 21 million Bitcoins that can ever exist (whole Bitcoins). Imagine if out of 300 million Americans only 21 million cars could only ever exist in the USA (let alone all of planet earth like Bitcoin), and then say only 15 million cars thus far have been made and put on the American market with most of that 300 million population wanting to buy one of those cars. What the hillbilly hell do you think would happen to the price?

Bitcoin is too expensive for me to enter into (other than if I just wanted to buy them to use to spend now). So, I licked my wounds, emotionally moved past it, tried doing some due diligence, and invested in a team, not a thing. I rolled my dice with Cardano. And a few others Alts. And I'm perfectly at peace if it all fails. I'm not afraid to "lose." Those that do never win.


4. A lot of naive people who are no aware of the items above or believing they can become one of them are the fools who eventually will loose a lot of money.
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Without Bitcoin people invest in the stock market without doing their "due diligence." Bitcoin is no different and many people are jumping on the bandwagon.

But less than finance and economics and investing few people know even less about technology and computer science. I sure as hell no little about technology and computer science. But that is one reason I listen more to brilliant minds in tech and computers (better yet if they have some knowledge of economics and investing) than I do to *only* traditional financial investors brilliant in that area but knowing little to nothing about computer science. Why? Because the latter has a better eye and perception for the limitations and possibilities for computer tech like crypto.

5. There are much better/safer options of trading passive income as well as electronic currency for payments (cheaper, faster, safer, more accepted by the market, more trusted and not over inflated valued).
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Of course there are safer investments. Like investing in power companies that provide electricity to people. They have high market caps and show little risk but consequently they come with small returns. The greater the risk the higher the *potential* return. Chicken littles need to stay out of high risk games. Relative to crack cocaine I view my Altcoin investment with its midget level money I have put in it to be as risky and "scary" as a vagina.

But then maybe from the pain of my crack addiction is what Erick Thomas of Detroit (once homeless) means by "don't run from your pain but embrace it because your pain you can use to deliver you the prize."


 
Visbek said:
Whatever, dude
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Whatever nothing, false saint.

There are how many casinos operating in the USA taking people's money and destroying people homes, and your zealot religious preaching about that is where? Nowhere.

You don't like blowing men, Bitcoin, dancing the Samba, or skiing down slopes? Then don't. Problem solved.



https://www.alternet.org/how-gambling-can-kill-you-faster-drug-abuse-or-alcoholism

Title of article:

How Gambling Can Kill You Faster Than Drug Abuse or Alcoholism
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Excerpt:
“The amount of financial devastation you can wreak plays a big role in this,” says Keith Whyte, the NCPG Executive Director. “You can bet $50,000 in a single hand, every minute.”Suicide rates among gambling addicts are staggeringly high.
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In contrast, no one can truly be trusted with Bitcoin.
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Then don't buy if you don't want it. Kind of like marijuana. Problem solved.
 
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Skeptic Bob said:
Yeah, and that makes it less useful for small transactions. Right now, if you want your transaction to go through quickly (1 block) it costs around $30. And that is regardless of the amount you are sending. Now, if you are sending thousands of dollars worth like I tend to do, that is a very reasonable rate compared to bank wire fees. But if you just want to buy something that costs, say, $50, then that sucks.

People like me, who just use BTC as a means of exchange, can’t wait until all these speculators move on to something else.
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No one forced you to buy Bitcoin. What are you... a guy that moves to Saudi Arabia and complains too many people there pray to Allah? Move. Don't like Bitcoin, stop involving yourself in it. Or you're like the guy that moves to Mexico and complains "I can't wait until everyone in Mexico starts speaking English."

When are speculators going to stop buying and holding Bitcoin, at what price per coin, in relation to their being a meager 21 million Bitcoins ever possible (something like circa year 2040 the last of Bitcoins possible to be mined are projected to be mined for good). Are you waiting until circa year 2040 for thousands or millions of people across planet earth to do what you religiously want them to do in thinking and conduct per how you want people to act toward Bitcoin?

Consider speculators in Bitcoin to be the equivalent of the white female porn star that in 4 years does over 200 porn movies (but wouldn't be so9 crazy to risk herself to an STD by her sexual conduct), and the LGBTQ that constantly marches in American streets, and move the hell on. You can't control others. Not even Bitcoin speculators. If it bothers you so much you willingly brought that on yourself by involving yourself in Bitcoin. No one forced you. But now Bitcoin and others are the problem and not you. If only all humans would obey you and do as you want them to "the world would be a perfect place."

Don't like Bitcoin? Stick to US dollars.
 
FastPace said:
No one forced you to buy Bitcoin. What are you... a guy that moves to Saudi Arabia and complains too many people there pray to Allah? Move. Don't like Bitcoin, stop involving yourself in it. Or you're like the guy that moves to Mexico and complains "I can't wait until everyone in Mexico starts speaking English."

When are speculators going to stop buying and holding Bitcoin, at what price per coin, in relation to their being a meager 21 million Bitcoins ever possible (something like circa year 2040 the last of Bitcoins possible to be mined are projected to be mined for good). Are you waiting until circa year 2040 for thousands or millions of people across planet earth to do what you religiously want them to do in thinking and conduct per how you want people to act toward Bitcoin?

Consider speculators in Bitcoin to be the equivalent of the white female porn star that in 4 years does over 200 porn movies (but wouldn't be so9 crazy to risk herself to an STD by her sexual conduct), and the LGBTQ that constantly marches in American streets, and move the hell on. You can't control others. Not even Bitcoin speculators. If it bothers you so much you willingly brought that on yourself by involving yourself in Bitcoin. No one forced you. But now Bitcoin and others are the problem and not you. If only all humans would obey you and do as you want them to "the world would be a perfect place."

Don't like Bitcoin? Stick to US dollars.
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Don’t like Bitcoin? Are you talking to me??? I love Bitcoin. Bitcoin has helped me build a very successful business. Are there things you like that you sometimes complain about some small feature of? If you aren’t in love with 100% of every aspect of a tool then are you saying you shouldn’t use it?
 
Northern Light said:
I know, but the fact remains. They're the beginning of a new infrastructure.
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That isnt a definite thing. I know that people want to believe that this is the wave of the future but there have been many waves of the future that failed even though it looked promising. In this case it doesnt even look promising.
What we can see is that it is gaining in use among not so good users. The life of cryptocurrency is as long as takes to fund a terrorist attack with some coin. As soon as that happens all hell will break loose. And it will happen, probably more in the near future than anything. Besides crime the other primary use of cryptocurrency seems to be to get rich quick. As soon as that bubble bursts it probably wont be coming back anytime soon. And many cryptocurrencies will die with it. But by far the biggest thing that will end cryptocurrency is it sown design. It being a currency with no real value on its own it cannot survive without real money. Real money is what gives it its value. I know they like to assert that its the block chains and all that, but thats a method and if the method is what is giving cyrptocurrency its value then it will become worthless if block chains become easily hacked. Which has happened and forced the end of certain cryptocurrencies before. ANd with the bubble that exists todays there is even more reason to hack.

Perhaps cryptocurrency 2.0 will be better? But any code can eventually be hacked. ANd given that this technology is out in the open it makes it possible to hack it.

https://news.bitcoin.com/10000-people-downloaded-fake-cryptocurrency-apps/
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Don’t like Bitcoin? Are you talking to me??? I love Bitcoin. Bitcoin has helped me build a very successful business. Are there things you like that you sometimes complain about some small feature of? If you aren’t in love with 100% of every aspect of a tool then are you saying you shouldn’t use it?
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If that's your position then I stand corrected. And you are 100% correct. Actually, it's good attitude to have even if you think a product or thing is good but possibly has some flaws.

(And Bitcoin does have limitations, and my understanding from the "tech people" about Bitcoin, is that since Bitcoin is already running it is harder to "fix" or improve the system, rather than create a new one like say... Ethereum or Litecoin or Ripple.)
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Don’t like Bitcoin? Are you talking to me??? I love Bitcoin. Bitcoin has helped me build a very successful business. Are there things you like that you sometimes complain about some small feature of? If you aren’t in love with 100% of every aspect of a tool then are you saying you shouldn’t use it?
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He's here to attack anyone who doesnt like/trust/promote/go googly eyed and cum in their jeans over cryptocurrency.
 
FastPace said:
Again, I don't care.
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This explain all your attempt to deny all the facts.
You don't actually care about the reason that it is over inflated.

Economics is not science like physics and math. We use math in economics but we can not reduce to that. You keep saying that Math has no emotion, but you are the most religiously passionate about your denial. And it is clear that your reasons are not Mathematical at all but political.

You have the predisposition to bend any reasoning to conform with your unshakable pre established opinion about the subject.

FastPace said:
You have never taken an economics course have you? You're talking like the equivalent of an Intelligent Designer.

I don't care if ....
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You don't care about anything but on your pre establish believes. You are so deterministic that you don't have to care about anything else. Everything has to be conformed on your plastered pre assumption.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
Yeah, and that makes it less useful for small transactions. Right now, if you want your transaction to go through quickly (1 block) it costs around $30. And that is regardless of the amount you are sending. Now, if you are sending thousands of dollars worth like I tend to do, that is a very reasonable rate compared to bank wire fees. But if you just want to buy something that costs, say, $50, then that sucks.

People like me, who just use BTC as a means of exchange, can’t wait until all these speculators move on to something else.
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I believe you are right in this regard. And I think it is a barrier for is popularization as an actual everyday goods transaction.

But how long people will keep using bitcoin (as everyday transaction currency) when there are better option on this regard? If bitcoin doesn't change it it will become less competitive.
 
C R O I X said:
This explain all your attempt to deny all the facts.
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Do you know what a "fact" is as opposed to an opinion?

It is a fact there can only be 21 million (roughly so) Bitcoins ever created. It is a fact the US population right now (300+ million people) outnumbers not only the current number of Bitcoins in circulation but the number of Bitcoins that will ever be in circulation throughout all of human history. Whole Bitcoins, but that number is a bit deceptive so I'll get to that in a minute. And there are what... something like over 7 billion on planet earth. So, you have more people competing for (demand for) a product than the number of that product that exists (supply). If you have more supply than demand then what? The price plummets. As I pointed out earlier in this thread or a different thread, in the case of diamonds, the De Beers supposedly [in the past] artificially created a scarcity of diamonds by withholding diamonds from the market to drive up the price of diamonds.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers

The De Beers Group of Companies is an international corporation that specialises in diamond exploration, diamond mining, diamond retail, diamond trading and industrial diamond manufacturing sectors. The company is currently active in open-pit, large-scale alluvial, coastal and deep sea mining.[2] It operates in 35 countries and mining takes place in Botswana, Namibia, South Africa and Canada. Until the start of the 21st century, De Beers effectively had total control over the diamond market as a monopoly.[3] Competition has since dismantled the complete monopoly, though De Beers Group still sells approximately 35%[4] of the world's rough diamond production through its Global Sightholder Sales and Auction Sales businesses.
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Bitcoin was conceived philosophically to be digitally akin to gold. But you can use other rather materials like diamonds as an analogy too. This is all I have been trying to say.

Back to whole Bitcoins. Only 21 million Bitcoins can ever exist. Whole Bitcoins. However, the smallest unit of the Bitcoin is the Satoshi and there are 100,000,000 (100 million) Satoshi in 1 Bitcoin. In contrast the smallest unit of the US dollar is the penny or cent and there are 100 pennies in 1 US dollar, or 10,000 pennies in the highest note the US currency is denominated in: the 100 dollar bill.

So, with 100,000,000 Satoshi in 1 Bitcoin one can now see how not only can one Bitcoin rise to such high price, but how 1 Bitcoin can spread so thinly among a broader population.
 
C R O I X said:
You don't actually care about the reason that it is over inflated.
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No, not really. Assuming it is over inflated as you say.

But you keep claiming it is and claiming that is not an opinion but a "fact." Care to explain how that is some "fact"?

Is the US dollar over inflated in a massive bubble? I've had to exchange my US dollars in the past for the Mexican peso and whatever the damn name or names of the currency or currencies in the Muslim UAE is/are. I was happy in Mexico because the US dollar was "over inflated" to use your terminology and I got more pesos for a single damn US dollar, on the hand I was pissed in the UAE because apparently the UAE's currency was over inflated as a single US dollar was less (then at least, not sure what it is now) that their equivalent currency.

Economics is not science like physics and math. We use math in economics but we can not reduce to that. You keep saying that Math has no emotion, but you are the most religiously passionate about your denial. And it is clear that your reasons are not Mathematical at all but political.

You have the predisposition to bend any reasoning to conform with your unshakable pre established opinion about the subject.



You don't care about anything but on your pre establish believes. You are so deterministic that you don't have to care about anything else. Everything has to be conformed on your plastered pre assumption.
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Economics is a social science but it uses math and a lot of complicated damn mathematical formulas.

But the mathematical number of Bitcoins that can ever be created is a fact--not a damn opinion. How much a single Bitcoin should go for when exchanged for a single US dollar may have more subjectivity to it.

But it is a waste of my time worrying myself about how much a Bitcoin costs.

Or is it an American of "First World" Western person gets upset and cries "unfair" when the world does not operate in a "fair" manner they think it ought, but they assume people living in Mexico, Venezuela, and the Congo live in a perfectly fair world in relation to many US dollars they can get (buy) when they exchange their national currency for US dollars?

All cryptocurrency, their value, are judged against Bitcoin (BTC). Kind like how the value of all nations currencies on earth are judged against the US dollar.



So, let's see how "fair" the world is and how "over inflated" the US dollar is.

Source used for conversions: XE: Convert CDF/USD. Congo/Kinshasa Franc to United States Dollar

Oh, look at here, 1 Congolese Franc is less than a penny in the United States.

1 CDF =0.000628404 USD
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Oh, another currency in an African country, the Angolan Kwanaza (dollar) is less than a single penny in the United States.

1 AOA =0.00602703 USD
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The Venezuelan Bolivar (dollar) will only get you $0.10 (10 cents) if you exchange it for US currency denominated in US dollars.

1 VEF =0.100125 USD
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Lets... see... how about India? Oh, about 2 cents in America, that is less than what you'll get in the USA for a Venezuelan Bolivar.

1 INR =0.0155868 USD
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Oh, well, the opposite is true for the British Pound, the US dollar is worth less than the British Pound.

1 GBP =1.34186 USD
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FastPace said:
Do you know what a "fact" is as opposed to an opinion?

It is a fact there can only be 21 million (roughly so) Bitcoins ever created. It is a fact the US population right now (300+ million people) outnumbers not only the current number of Bitcoins in circulation but the number of Bitcoins that will ever be in circulation throughout all of human history. Whole Bitcoins, but that number is a bit deceptive so I'll get to that in a minute. And there are what... something like over 7 billion on planet earth. So, you have more people competing for (demand for) a product than the number of that product that exists (supply). If you have more supply than demand then what? The price plummets. As I pointed out earlier in this thread or a different thread, in the case of diamonds, the De Beers supposedly [in the past] artificially created a scarcity of diamonds by withholding diamonds from the market to drive up the price of diamonds.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Beers



Bitcoin was conceived philosophically to be digitally akin to gold. But you can use other rather materials like diamonds as an analogy too. This is all I have been trying to say.

Back to whole Bitcoins. Only 21 million Bitcoins can ever exist. Whole Bitcoins. However, the smallest unit of the Bitcoin is the Satoshi and there are 100,000,000 (100 million) Satoshi in 1 Bitcoin. In contrast the smallest unit of the US dollar is the penny or cent and there are 100 pennies in 1 US dollar, or 10,000 pennies in the highest note the US currency is denominated in: the 100 dollar bill.

So, with 100,000,000 Satoshi in 1 Bitcoin one can now see how not only can one Bitcoin rise to such high price, but how 1 Bitcoin can spread so thinly among a broader population.
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Whatever fits your determinism.

FastPace said:
No, not really. Assuming it is over inflated as you say.
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So there is nothing to talk about.












Bitcoin is a grate game for a day gamble trade. Myself, as a long term investment I'm investing in Gold and Oil, because they are going up when the bitcoin bubble pops.
 
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FastPace said:
Whatever nothing, false saint.
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False what now?


There are how many casinos operating in the USA taking people's money and destroying people homes, and your zealot religious preaching about that is where?
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Huh?

First of all, your attempt at Whataboutism is flat-out rejected. You have no idea of my opinion about casinos, nor is it relevant to the topic. Double for religious views.

Second, you are here touting the greatness of Bitcoin as the savior of the global economy, and I'm responding by pointing out major flaws to BTC and similar cryptocurrencies. Meaning that you have failed to address any of the points I've raised.

Third, ad hominem attacks only further illustrate that you are unable to refute my points.


You don't like blowing men, Bitcoin, dancing the Samba, or skiing down slopes? Then don't. Problem solved.
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lol

This is not about my personal decisions about speculative investments. You're here decrying how BTC fell to the speculators; I'm pointing out that this is a structural flaw of crypto, and will happen to pretty much any unbacked currency. You are proclaiming that it is a solution; I'm pointing out that it is actually a symptom of a larger problem, notably the deterioration in the basic perception of the value of governance.
 
FastPace said:
It is a fact there can only be 21 million (roughly so) Bitcoins ever created.
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It is also a fact that the lack of control over the supply of BTC cripples it as a currency. It makes it susceptible to wild swings in exchange rates and valuations; as we can see, demand leads to deflation, which discourages use as a currency; and yes, it can even suffer inflation, when the speculators decide to pack up and leave, thus driving down the value of BTC.

It is rather hilarious that you spend so much time harping on inflation, without any apparent awareness of the harms of deflation. I guess that's what happens when you grow up in an economy where government control of currency has wiped out almost every trace of deflation....


So, with 100,000,000 Satoshi in 1 Bitcoin one can now see how not only can one Bitcoin rise to such high price, but how 1 Bitcoin can spread so thinly among a broader population.
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So what?

Funny thing, the USD doesn't need to be split to 9 decimal places, because it will never deflate to the point where that is even remotely necessary. If anything, that technical feature exacerbates the problems, because it facilitates deflation.

BTC is exactly what you get when paranoid techie know-it-alls who read half of an Econ 101 textbook try to come up with their own currency mechanism: The promise of a Better World, which only fuels the hype that the speculators feed off of, and use to bring in new rounds of suckers.
 
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