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The shocking US vote not to condemn the death penalty for LGBT people

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I chose this forum "International Politics" but I think the topic could well have been in "Religion and Politics"

The shocking US vote not to condemn the death penalty for LGBT people

The past week saw two remarkable developments at the United Nations, and the world took notice of both. One was the passage of a resolution condemning the use of the death penalty as punishment for consensual gay relations. LGBT groups viewed the moment as a major milestone, what the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association called a "historic first." Celebrations, however, were muted. That's because of the other occurrence: The United States, until recently a leader in the global effort to advance human rights, voted against the resolution.

Even though the UN Human Rights Council's measure does not outlaw the use of the death penalty, Washington's decision to vote no on the resolution still sent shockwaves among human rights groups and their supporters. And the shock was not limited to the United States. Headlines in other countries noted that America sided with the nations that refused to condemn the medieval -- but still practiced -- policy of killing people simply because they are gay. They noted, correctly, that the US vote was dictated by fear of undercutting the death penalty itself.

Statement by Trump Administration focuses on the "death penalty" aspect of the resolution, defending the vote, by releasing the following statement -
“The United States unequivocally condemns the application of the death penalty for homosexuality, blasphemy, adultery and apostasy. As in years past, we voted against this resolution because of broader concerns with the resolution’s approach to condemning the death penalty in all circumstances.”
The Obama Administration wasn't perfect but in 2014 when a similar resolution came up for a vote at the UN, it abstained. The Trump delegation voting FOR this resolution is yet another example of the homophobia found in many of his supporters, many of whom actually support the notion of execution for same-sex relations.

Rather sad when the USA finds itself on the same side of a controversial subject with some of the most repressive nations in the world: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar and the UAE. MONGOLIA voted in support of the resolution!!
 
Well, from the explanation given, I guess it does get a bit uncomfortable for a country that still has the death penalty to say "Well, you can kill in this situation, but not that..." Abstaining from the vote probably would have been the right thing to do...but that slippery slope is a sumbitch, can't give an inch.......
 
Sounds like this is nothing new or specific only to the Trump admin, and it doesn't appear that the LGBT thing has anything to do with the reason. There could be resolutions to condemn the DP for all American Republicans and the result would be the same.
 
Well, from the explanation given, I guess it does get a bit uncomfortable for a country that still has the death penalty to say "Well, you can kill in this situation, but not that..." Abstaining from the vote probably would have been the right thing to do...but that slippery slope is a sumbitch, can't give an inch.......

Props for reading the reason given, even if you disagree with it (which I don't know either way) rather than say that Trump wants gay people killed, which, I suspect, is where this thread is heading.
 
The response from the US ambassador to the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva...

U.S. Explanation of Vote: Human Rights Council Resolution on the Death Penalty

The rationale - as I understand it - is that the US government objected to language in the Resolution that disparaged the death penalty. The US Mission agrees that a LGBT status or relationship in and of itself should not warrant a death penalty, but the US disagrees with the notion that the death penalty cannot be applied lawfully in any circumstance. Ergo, the US would vote differently if the Resolution language were modified.

At least that's how I interpret the US Mission response.
 
Sounds like this is nothing new or specific only to the Trump admin, and it doesn't appear that the LGBT thing has anything to do with the reason. There could be resolutions to condemn the DP for all American Republicans and the result would be the same.

Quiet, you homophobic Trump supporter. Why do you want me to be executed, X?
 
I chose this forum "International Politics" but I think the topic could well have been in "Religion and Politics"

Statement by Trump Administration focuses on the "death penalty" aspect of the resolution, defending the vote, by releasing the following statement -
The Obama Administration wasn't perfect but in 2014 when a similar resolution came up for a vote at the UN, it abstained. The Trump delegation voting FOR this resolution is yet another example of the homophobia found in many of his supporters, many of whom actually support the notion of execution for same-sex relations.

Rather sad when the USA finds itself on the same side of a controversial subject with some of the most repressive nations in the world: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar and the UAE. MONGOLIA voted in support of the resolution!!

And now for the rest of the story...

Background:
On September 29, the UNHRC passed a landmark resolution that for the first time in its history condemned the use of the death penalty as a punishment for “consensual same-sex relations.” The UNHRC has passed numerous resolutions in the past broadly condemning the use of the death penalty and calling for its abolition, but this was the first time in its history that the resolution included language regarding same-sex relations.

The vote on the resolution was 27 in favor of the resolution, 13 against, and 7 abstentions. The U.S. was among the votes against, primarily because of the continued use of capital punishment in the United States in certain cases. The U.S. has a long history of opposing this resolution on the death penalty, under both Democratic and Republican administrations. Following its vote on the resolution, the U.S. released a statement to explain the “no” vote which failed to condemn the the use of the death penalty against individuals engaged in same-sex relations

https://www.hrc.org/blog/trump-admin-votes-against-resolution-condemning-death-penalty-for-same-sex
 
I chose this forum "International Politics" but I think the topic could well have been in "Religion and Politics"



Statement by Trump Administration focuses on the "death penalty" aspect of the resolution, defending the vote, by releasing the following statement -
The Obama Administration wasn't perfect but in 2014 when a similar resolution came up for a vote at the UN, it abstained. The Trump delegation voting FOR this resolution is yet another example of the homophobia found in many of his supporters, many of whom actually support the notion of execution for same-sex relations.

Rather sad when the USA finds itself on the same side of a controversial subject with some of the most repressive nations in the world: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar and the UAE. MONGOLIA voted in support of the resolution!!

It’s not homophobic as much as it is the US wants to keep the ability to apply the death penalty. Honestly I used to be for the death penalty but the more and more I see how botched the system the more I become against it.
 
It’s not homophobic as much as it is the US wants to keep the ability to apply the death penalty. Honestly I used to be for the death penalty but the more and more I see how botched the system the more I become against it.

Same here.
 
Quiet, you homophobic Trump supporter. Why do you want me to be executed, X?

You misunderstood what I meant by my "lethal injection" ***lewd eyebrow gesturing***




Ok, that was awful.
 
It’s not homophobic as much as it is the US wants to keep the ability to apply the death penalty. Honestly I used to be for the death penalty but the more and more I see how botched the system the more I become against it.

While I do not see the DP as cruel (LWOP is more cruel, IMHO) it is definitely unusual in its current application.
 
You misunderstood what I meant by my "lethal injection" ***lewd eyebrow gesturing***




Ok, that was awful.

Oh my God. I can't even. :lamo

KQvR2uB.gif
 
I chose this forum "International Politics" but I think the topic could well have been in "Religion and Politics"



Statement by Trump Administration focuses on the "death penalty" aspect of the resolution, defending the vote, by releasing the following statement -
The Obama Administration wasn't perfect but in 2014 when a similar resolution came up for a vote at the UN, it abstained. The Trump delegation voting FOR this resolution is yet another example of the homophobia found in many of his supporters, many of whom actually support the notion of execution for same-sex relations.

Rather sad when the USA finds itself on the same side of a controversial subject with some of the most repressive nations in the world: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar and the UAE. MONGOLIA voted in support of the resolution!!

Gosh, what happened to your multiculturalism? You are willing to acknowledge that some cultures are superior to others now?

Up to now LGBT spokespersons have avoided condemning the barbaric and inhumane treatment of gays in majority Muslim countries just as feminists have avoided condemning the primative, barbaric, and inhumane treatment of women in those countries. But when the Trump administration supposedly affirms these practices they are more than willing to slam Trump. Hypocrisy much? Or is this just another case of bashing Trump with whatever comes to hand?

Having said that, I think that the US should not have voted in favor of the death penalty for these infractions or any infraction. The specter of the US defending the death penalty on the international stage is repulsive.
 
You have to recognize that most of these deaths of LGBT people occur in countries where the majority of their people have a cultural and religious bias against LGBT that CALLS FOR their death in the name of Allah, for the good of the LGBT sinner, and to restore the honor of the family. Its important to respect their sovereignty in hanging them from construction cranes, bridges, or simply tossing them to their death from tall buildings. In fact...its a culture that many in the US admire so much they want to bring millions more into this country. So how can that be a bad thing?
 
Well, from the explanation given, I guess it does get a bit uncomfortable for a country that still has the death penalty to say "Well, you can kill in this situation, but not that..." Abstaining from the vote probably would have been the right thing to do...but that slippery slope is a sumbitch, can't give an inch.......

Yet another reason to abolish the death penalty in the US. Truly civilized societies do not execute their members. Having the death penalty has put us squarely on the side of repression and extremism. That needs to change.
 
Yet another reason to abolish the death penalty in the US. Truly civilized societies do not execute their members. Having the death penalty has put us squarely on the side of repression and extremism. That needs to change.

As with everything, details do matter. The nature of the crime that will get you the DP in the US is far different than in other countries you mentioned. I find this desire to be just like whichever other country or countries you (meant in the general sense) believe to be morally superior a little sad.
 
As with everything, details do matter. The nature of the crime that will get you the DP in the US is far different than in other countries you mentioned. I find this desire to be just like whichever other country or countries you (meant in the general sense) believe to be morally superior a little sad.

I didn't actually mention any other countries, at least not by name.

You're correct, of course, that the nature of the "crime" that can get you executed in such repressive regimes as Yemen and Pakistan is much different from the ones that get you executed in the USA.

But the point was that we can't officially condemn the death penalty for being gay since we have the death penalty for real crimes. While that is a spurious argument IMO, it still raises the question of whether a truly civilized nation executes its citizens for any reason.

Oh, and the poster to whom I replied is from Canada, which has already advanced beyond its southern neighbor in that it does not have the death penalty, and can therefore legitimately condemn the repressive regimes of the world for putting gays to death.
 
I chose this forum "International Politics" but I think the topic could well have been in "Religion and Politics"



Statement by Trump Administration focuses on the "death penalty" aspect of the resolution, defending the vote, by releasing the following statement -
The Obama Administration wasn't perfect but in 2014 when a similar resolution came up for a vote at the UN, it abstained. The Trump delegation voting FOR this resolution is yet another example of the homophobia found in many of his supporters, many of whom actually support the notion of execution for same-sex relations.

Rather sad when the USA finds itself on the same side of a controversial subject with some of the most repressive nations in the world: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar and the UAE. MONGOLIA voted in support of the resolution!!

I don't like capital punishment at all and would prefer it were eliminated under most non war conditions. But as long as it is legal, it seems a matter of the individual country to decide which behavior should be so punished. It is an internal matter and the numbers implicated are comparatively low to apply R2P, when we think of the number the Eu has been letting drown in the Mediterranean or the numbers we allowed the Assads to torture to death for their opinions etc. where we do not apply R2P.
 
Props for reading the reason given, even if you disagree with it (which I don't know either way) rather than say that Trump wants gay people killed, which, I suspect, is where this thread is heading.

hehe...see, I'm not all bad, X... ;) Sometimes partisanship ignores the complexities of foreign policy. There are enough real reasons to be pissed off at the Don without inventing new ones. That said, I do disagree with the DP, but that's a whole other debate. Regarding the vote specifically, I understand the why. I think I can take a guess at why no abstaining from the vote this time around too....I don't think the US wants to look wishy washy on anything right now, given the current theatre that the UN is enjoying... I don't like the logic, but I get it...

As to whether or not Trump wants to kill gay people, I don't think so...he might be a dumbass (in my opinion, of course), but I don't think he has graduated to antichrist just yet... ;)
 
You misunderstood what I meant by my "lethal injection" ***lewd eyebrow gesturing***




Ok, that was awful.

I publicly Liked the "Ok, that was awful" part. The iced tea laughed through the nose was 100% the first part, though.
 
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