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Merkle: Europe can no longer rely on US

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ataraxia

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The close alliance between the US and Europe has been built up by US administrations from the time of President Truman. These have provided a powerful bulwark against the threats of Russia and other foreign powers, and have been a source of tremendous Geo political and economic stability in the world for the last half century.

Now, however, after a trip that President Trump has called successful, our allies are feeling like that alliance is no longer reliable. He has questioned the usefulness of the alliance, publicly scolded European leaders, and has made clear that America's backing is no longer something to be relied on. He is questioning established science on climate change and threatening environmental stability by questioning the Paris accord. More broadly, he has made clear that America no longer shares the ideals of the European enlightenment.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/28/politics/angela-merkel-donald-trump-g7/index.html
Is this really making America great again?
 
And the Trump foreign trip goes from a self proclaimed home run to strike outs where it mattered the most.
 
haymarket said:
And the Trump foreign trip goes from a self proclaimed home run to strike outs where it mattered the most.
Click to expand...

Yes. And addition to Merkle's comments, here is the new French president talking about his rather tense handshake with Donald Trump.

My handshake with him, it's not innocent," Macron told the Journal du Dimanche in an interview published Sunday. "It's not the alpha and the omega of politics, but a moment of truth."...

Pool reporter Phillip Rucker of the Washington Post, who was in the room, described it:
"They shook hands for an extended period of time. Each president gripped the other's hand with considerable intensity, their knuckles turning white and their jaws clenching and faces tightening."

Handshakes are a very big thing to this president, writes CNN's Chris Cillizza. Trump seems to view the handshake as a sort of battle of wills and a battle for power all wrapped into one....

In the interview, Macron compared his own handshake to his leadership posture.
"One must show that we won't make little concessions, even symbolic ones," Macron said.
The centrist European leader also likened Trump's diplomatic approach to those of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
"Donald Trump, the President of Turkey or the President of Russia are of a mindset of power relations, which doesn't bother me," Macron said. "I don't believe in diplomacy of the public invective but in bilateral dialogues. I don't let anything go. That's how one makes oneself respected."
Click to expand...

Macron explains his tense handshake with Trump - CNNPolitics.com
 
ataraxia said:
The close alliance between the US and Europe has been built up by US administrations from the time of President Truman. These have provided a powerful bulwark against the threats of Russia and other foreign powers, and have been a source of tremendous Geo political and economic stability in the world for the last half century.

Now, however, after a trip that President Trump has called successful, our allies are feeling like that alliance is no longer reliable. He has questioned the usefulness of the alliance, publicly scolded European leaders, and has made clear that America's backing is no longer something to be relied on. He is questioning established science on climate change and threatening environmental stability by questioning the Paris accord. More broadly, he has made clear that America no longer shares the ideals of the European enlightenment.

Merkel: Europeans now have to fight for their own future - CNNPolitics.com
Is this really making America great again?
Click to expand...

Why did you purposefully leave out the rest of what Merkel said? :roll:
At a Munich stop on the campaign trail, Merkel told supporters that Europe can no longer count on the U.S. and the U.K. as reliable allies.
Click to expand...

After G7 Summit, Merkel Says We Can No Longer 'Completely Rely' U.S. And UK : The Two-Way : NPR
 
countryboy said:
Why did you purposefully leave out the rest of what Merkel said? :roll:


After G7 Summit, Merkel Says We Can No Longer 'Completely Rely' U.S. And UK : The Two-Way : NPR
Click to expand...

Hmmm. I wonder who benefits from a rift in US/Europe relations? And a rift between the U.K. And Germany?



5ee16cafb4a2424b8d31bca4bbe9b68b.jpg




Thanks, Donald. Thanks, idiots who support him.
 
ataraxia said:
The close alliance between the US and Europe has been built up by US administrations from the time of President Truman. These have provided a powerful bulwark against the threats of Russia and other foreign powers, and have been a source of tremendous Geo political and economic stability in the world for the last half century.

Now, however, after a trip that President Trump has called successful, our allies are feeling like that alliance is no longer reliable. He has questioned the usefulness of the alliance, publicly scolded European leaders, and has made clear that America's backing is no longer something to be relied on. He is questioning established science on climate change and threatening environmental stability by questioning the Paris accord. More broadly, he has made clear that America no longer shares the ideals of the European enlightenment.

Merkel: Europeans now have to fight for their own future - CNNPolitics.com
Is this really making America great again?
Click to expand...

The Europeans need something to stabilize the Eu that they are afraid will collapse. Using fear and anger in the population is a tried and tested instrument and Trump has given them the possibility to use an "unreliable" USA. Nobody in their right mind believes it would be rational to break the commitment to increase spending to two percent, if it means the USA withdraws its umbrella. The costs would be far higher and probably as well made as the Euro.
 
Chagos said:
She actually mentioned neither the US nor UK by name.

And in view of controversy over climate (source of chief disappointment at G7) not existing with the latter, one can't even see the UK as being implied.

Just saying.
Click to expand...

Hey, that's how it's being reported across the media. Seems good enough when Trump is lambasted on a daily basis by the MSM. Why not for Merkel? :shrug:
 
Threegoofs said:
Hmmm. I wonder who benefits from a rift in US/Europe relations? And a rift between the U.K. And Germany?



5ee16cafb4a2424b8d31bca4bbe9b68b.jpg




Thanks, Donald. Thanks, idiots who support him.
Click to expand...

In the massive levels of ignorance, racism, misunderstandings, fake news, and anxieties of the masses, Putin has seen a golden opportunity to exploit. Why should the Koch brothers be the only ones who can ride such ignorant people like a donkey to advance their own personal agenda? Hayaaa...
 
countryboy said:
Hey, that's how it's being reported across the media. Seems good enough when Trump is lambasted on a daily basis by the MSM. Why not for Merkel? :shrug:
Click to expand...
Heck, let 'em lambast her all they want.

And everyone else while they're at it.

If we can't see anything that makes anyone deserve it, it's probably just because it's been covered up.:mrgreen:

Now before this gets shifted to CT, I'll furthermore refrain.:lol:
 
ataraxia said:
The close alliance between the US and Europe has been built up by US administrations from the time of President Truman. These have provided a powerful bulwark against the threats of Russia and other foreign powers, and have been a source of tremendous Geo political and economic stability in the world for the last half century.

Now, however, after a trip that President Trump has called successful, our allies are feeling like that alliance is no longer reliable. He has questioned the usefulness of the alliance, publicly scolded European leaders, and has made clear that America's backing is no longer something to be relied on. He is questioning established science on climate change and threatening environmental stability by questioning the Paris accord. More broadly, he has made clear that America no longer shares the ideals of the European enlightenment.

Merkel: Europeans now have to fight for their own future - CNNPolitics.com
Is this really making America great again?
Click to expand...
Hey, the trip was a home run! Trump was honored by the Saudis after all, and it had nothing to do with that 100+ billion arms deal. He practically brought peace to the Mid East singlehandedly. Now, he won't need Jared to do that, so he can now concentrate on making America great again.
 
ataraxia said:
The close alliance between the US and Europe has been built up by US administrations from the time of President Truman. These have provided a powerful bulwark against the threats of Russia and other foreign powers, and have been a source of tremendous Geo political and economic stability in the world for the last half century.

Now, however, after a trip that President Trump has called successful, our allies are feeling like that alliance is no longer reliable. He has questioned the usefulness of the alliance, publicly scolded European leaders, and has made clear that America's backing is no longer something to be relied on. He is questioning established science on climate change and threatening environmental stability by questioning the Paris accord. More broadly, he has made clear that America no longer shares the ideals of the European enlightenment.

Merkel: Europeans now have to fight for their own future - CNNPolitics.com
Is this really making America great again?
Click to expand...

Trumps M.O. is to open with a strong bid. It's time for Europe to pay their dues, and man up and fulfill their responsibilities in defending their countries.

In private sit downs, he plays a more reasonable game.

There is nothing wrong with being direct. What are they going to do about it? Withdraw from NATO? It's best insurance they can buy and not pay for.

It's time for the USAF to fly a couple of F16's over the autobahn at 100 feet as a reminder of how we got from there to here.
 
ataraxia said:
The close alliance between the US and Europe has been built up by US administrations from the time of President Truman. These have provided a powerful bulwark against the threats of Russia and other foreign powers, and have been a source of tremendous Geo political and economic stability in the world for the last half century.

Now, however, after a trip that President Trump has called successful, our allies are feeling like that alliance is no longer reliable. He has questioned the usefulness of the alliance, publicly scolded European leaders, and has made clear that America's backing is no longer something to be relied on. He is questioning established science on climate change and threatening environmental stability by questioning the Paris accord. More broadly, he has made clear that America no longer shares the ideals of the European enlightenment.

Merkel: Europeans now have to fight for their own future - CNNPolitics.com
Is this really making America great again?
Click to expand...

First let's be honest and show that Merkel was addressing her remarks re the USA and the UK:
". . .At a Munich stop on the campaign trail, Merkel told supporters that Europe can no longer count on the U.S. and the U.K. as reliable allies. . ." But did she actually say that?

What she did say that should be music to all our ears was this:
. . .​
​
"And so all I can say is that we Europeans must really take our destiny into our own hands," she said, according to the DPA news agency.Merkel emphasised the need for continued friendly relations with the US and Britain and stressed the importance of being good neighbours "wherever that is possible, including with Russia, but also with others.". . .
"But we need to know we must fight for our own future, as Europeans, for our destiny," she said.​

Merkel says EU cannot 'fully' rely on the US or UK | Germany News | Al Jazeera

(I used aljazeera as that was the first one I came to that gave her exact quote.)

She was actually sayings what Trump said: it is time for E.U. nations to step up their own efforts for their own security and pay their fair share for NATO membership. The USA is a good friend to Europe, but Eur0pe can no longer depend on the USA to do for them what they will not do for themselves.

This is a good thing.

 
AlbqOwl said:
First let's be honest and show that Merkel was addressing her remarks re the USA and the UK:
". . .At a Munich stop on the campaign trail, Merkel told supporters that Europe can no longer count on the U.S. and the U.K. as reliable allies. . ." But did she actually say that?

What she did say that should be music to all our ears was this:
. . .​
​
"And so all I can say is that we Europeans must really take our destiny into our own hands," she said, according to the DPA news agency.Merkel emphasised the need for continued friendly relations with the US and Britain and stressed the importance of being good neighbours "wherever that is possible, including with Russia, but also with others.". . .
"But we need to know we must fight for our own future, as Europeans, for our destiny," she said.​

Merkel says EU cannot 'fully' rely on the US or UK | Germany News | Al Jazeera

(I used aljazeera as that was the first one I came to that gave her exact quote.)

She was actually sayings what Trump said: it is time for E.U. nations to step up their own efforts for their own security and pay their fair share for NATO membership. The USA is a good friend to Europe, but Eur0pe can no longer depend on the USA to do for them what they will not do for themselves.

This is a good thing.
Click to expand...

It could have been done in far, far better ways. This was the bull in a China shop approach.
 
ataraxia said:
It could have been done in far, far better ways. This was the bull in a China shop approach.
Click to expand...

We'll see. The poll tested, scripted, and polished status quo tactics and techniques exercised by the professional politicians and diplomats of the permanent political class haven't been working out too well for us have they.

So I'm willing to see if the straight forward, tell it like it is, honest approach might work better.

Time will tell.
 
It might have been more appreciated if it wasn't Trump saying it, while he strokes Putin's manhood with his other hand.

Back channels to Russia, but our Allies? Go it alone you slackers!

You folks really don't see the difference between:
"Allies, our shared core values are stronger than ever, but we're no longer going to sit back while you pay less than your agreed on contribution to our mutual defense via NATO"

vs Trump's deep and expansive pro-Russia behavior, interviews, candid photo ops, back channel communications, etc., while simultaneously giving the EU an earful on payments?

You can't argue one in isolation and keep a straight face. This is why Trump won't eventually do anything great, he no longer has credibility to do so. Leadership requires support, and he doesn't have it. Except the Russians and confused country folk, they support him.
 
And after all that Merkel upped the anti in Berlin Monday bashing Trump again.
'Anyone who puts on National blinkers & has no view of the world around him will
ultimately get lost.' After saying the EU can no longer rely on the UK & the USA
Merkel drops another bomb.

Merkel position without Britain is beginning to weaken. Here Germany is freeloading
on NATO dues while demanding concessions from Greece who in fact are one of the
5 EU countries who are fulfilling their NATO commitment.

The EU is facing a time of troubles partly due to her gruesome immigration views
& worse yet imposing her views on the rest of EU countries. She has a rebellion on
her hands as the Visegrad countries aren't buying in! Nationalism is not dead even in Europe.

The migration crisis has given an unsettling new direction to an old alliance.Today's nation states
of Central and Eastern Europe are the righful hiers to the legacy of the Habsbugs: Hungary, Austria,
the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland, Romania, Slovenia and Croatia. These countries could (and should)
form a Danubian Confederation of their own as a counter-balance to a German-dominated EU.
Only Orban is capable of pulling it off. And it starts with Visegrad.

The left can pervert anything. Today the word liberal has as much to do with
freedom as communism had to do with shared ownership.
 
chuckiechan said:
Trumps M.O. is to open with a strong bid. It's time for Europe to pay their dues, and man up and fulfill their responsibilities in defending their countries.

In private sit downs, he plays a more reasonable game.

There is nothing wrong with being direct. What are they going to do about it? Withdraw from NATO? It's best insurance they can buy and not pay for.

It's time for the USAF to fly a couple of F16's over the autobahn at 100 feet as a reminder of how we got from there to here.
Click to expand...

Except that Trump's budget proposes hundreds of millions *more* in military spending, so the idea that Germany spending more on its military will save the US taxpayers? Not with Trump or any other republican it sure won't
 
joG said:
The Eu wants to increase the level of anxiety in order to force further deepening of the Eu. They need the crisis to do this and are afraid the Eu might collapse, if the deepening is not achieved soon.
Click to expand...

Ummm Trump is the one upping the level of anxiety, not Germany. He won't lecture the cradle of Islamic Extremism but sure will scold his traditional allies... :doh

I believe Europe is waking up to the fact that the decades long alliance is entering a terminal stage. America in political turmoil (like it was in economic turmoil in the 1920-30's) can destabilize much of the world's political calculus. Trump with his 'America First' schitk is really saying 'America Retreats'. Donald has little interest in facing down Russia, our legions are needed elsewhere- marching across the deserts to fight terrorists.

It does remind me when other Empires retreats- from the Romans leaving ancient Britain on it's own. Once the Legions left, Britannia faced waves of invasions ending with the Norman conquest. Rome had long since sank into history, the new England rose to dominate the world as no Roman ever dreamed of doing. The British in their turn too had to retreat. After WWII, England with an armed force of 5 million shrank to now has less than 130,000 in all branches- it couldn't retake the Falklands now. I don't think the EU sees the British as a great ally as it rarely stands to fight on the Continent without major support. England is more a retreat back across the Channel and wait for help kinda Ally... ;)

It would serve the Europeans well to increase their own defense- to include depending on their own armaments, and not spending their money on the USofA 'defense' industry. Europe needs to develop a self- one not overshadowed by a fickle temporary occupant of the White House.

Europe is watching a fickle Emperor 'tweet' world policy and turn Pax Americana into Past Americana... :peace
 
ataraxia said:
The close alliance between the US and Europe has been built up by US administrations from the time of President Truman. These have provided a powerful bulwark against the threats of Russia and other foreign powers, and have been a source of tremendous Geo political and economic stability in the world for the last half century.

Now, however, after a trip that President Trump has called successful, our allies are feeling like that alliance is no longer reliable. He has questioned the usefulness of the alliance, publicly scolded European leaders, and has made clear that America's backing is no longer something to be relied on. He is questioning established science on climate change and threatening environmental stability by questioning the Paris accord. More broadly, he has made clear that America no longer shares the ideals of the European enlightenment.

Merkel: Europeans now have to fight for their own future - CNNPolitics.com
Is this really making America great again?
Click to expand...

some good news!
 
notquiteright said:
Ummm Trump is the one upping the level of anxiety, not Germany. He won't lecture the cradle of Islamic Extremism but sure will scold his traditional allies... :doh

I believe Europe is waking up to the fact that the decades long alliance is entering a terminal stage. America in political turmoil (like it was in economic turmoil in the 1920-30's) can destabilize much of the world's political calculus. Trump with his 'America First' schitk is really saying 'America Retreats'. Donald has little interest in facing down Russia, our legions are needed elsewhere- marching across the deserts to fight terrorists.

It does remind me when other Empires retreats- from the Romans leaving ancient Britain on it's own. Once the Legions left, Britannia faced waves of invasions ending with the Norman conquest. Rome had long since sank into history, the new England rose to dominate the world as no Roman ever dreamed of doing. The British in their turn too had to retreat. After WWII, England with an armed force of 5 million shrank to now has less than 130,000 in all branches- it couldn't retake the Falklands now. I don't think the EU sees the British as a great ally as it rarely stands to fight on the Continent without major support. England is more a retreat back across the Channel and wait for help kinda Ally... ;)

It would serve the Europeans well to increase their own defense- to include depending on their own armaments, and not spending their money on the USofA 'defense' industry. Europe needs to develop a self- one not overshadowed by a fickle temporary occupant of the White House.

Europe is watching a fickle Emperor 'tweet' world policy and turn Pax Americana into Past Americana... :peace
Click to expand...

The EU elite has been preparing a restructuring of the EU for some time now. To do so it was easier to have the UK out, which was probably the reason Merkel invited the immigrants in the way she did just before the referendum. The pictures did the rest.
Severing the close transatlantic ties has been anticipated for some time and politicians were only waiting for a trigger that would allow them to point a finger at a culprit so that the population would accept it. No local politician wanted to be seen as "at fault". Trump supplied the EU elite with that opportunity.

The problem will be that there will niw be a meddlesome introverted entity forming and wasting its financial and political capital on a project that in essence is about solving the political problems of the first half of the last century. As the Europe of 1913 learned, Bissmarck's partial solution to the continuing wars in Europe of unifying Germany did not help but made things worse.
 
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