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Merkle: Europe can no longer rely on US

AlbqOwl said:
I agree. This is not a negative.
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Trump is smug right now because he has inherited a world in relatively stable situation. Yes, there are the Iranians, and the N. Koreans, and Syria, etc... But if a full conflagaration takes place and he needs to send in troops to, say, Afghanistan again, if he needs support at the UN, etc... guess what? Burning those bridges with the Europeans is going to have some very, very serious consequences.
 
ataraxia said:
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Trump is smug right now because he has inherited a world in relatively stable situation. Yes, there are the Iranians, and the N. Koreans, and Syria, etc... But if a full conflagaration takes place and he needs to send in troops to, say, Afghanistan again, if he needs support at the UN, etc... guess what? Burning those bridges with the Europeans is going to have some very, very serious consequences.
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Can you name anything in which the U.N. has voted in the United States favor in say the last 10 years or so?

And do you know that NATO and the U.N. are two separate organizations?

And can you understand that no bridges have been burned anywhere?

And can you identify any action NATO has taken without the United States being a significant part of it?
 
AlbqOwl said:
Can you name anything in which the U.N. has voted in the United States favor in say the last 10 years or so?
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In 2006, the UN adopted a global strategy to counter terrorism. All Member States agreed on a strategic approach to fight terrorism internationally. The UN also advocated practical measures such as strengthening state capacity to counter terrorist threats. The UN crafted a total of 14 major legal instruments and four additional amendments dealing with terrorism. After 9/11, the Security Council set up a Counter-Terrorism Committee comprising all members of the Security Council.

And do you know that NATO and the U.N. are two separate organizations?
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The policy of "America first" has a strong predisposition to soon turn into a "America alone" policy if we keep up this level of alienating our allies.

And can you understand that no bridges have been burned anywhere?
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I am sorry you don't see them burning down. That's probably because they have not yet been tested in a crisis yet. If the sh-t hits the fan anytime soon anywhere in the world, you may see those bridges may no longer be passable.

Did Trump burn bridges all over Europe last week? - Yellow Bullet Forums


And can you identify any action NATO has taken without the United States being a significant part of it?
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And that's a bad thing because... why? Are you really ready to relinquish American leadership so quickly? I am not sure you would like the consequences so much. Basically, if we don't want to play in the international scene anymore, others are more than happy to take over the job. Nature abhors a vacuum. America steps out, and all sorts of interesting characters are more than happy to step in... Russians, Chinese, etc...
 
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ataraxia said:
In 2006, the UN adopted a global strategy to counter terrorism. All Member States agreed on a strategic approach to fight terrorism internationally. The UN also advocated practical measures such as strengthening state capacity to counter terrorist threats. The UN crafted a total of 14 major legal instruments and four additional amendments dealing with terrorism. After 9/11, the Security Council set up a Counter-Terrorism Committee comprising all members of the Security Council.



The policy of "America first" has a strong predisposition to soon turn into a "America alone" policy if we keep up this level of alienating our allies.



I am sorry you don't see them burning down. That's probably because they have not yet been tested in a crisis yet. If the sh-t hits the fan anytime soon anywhere in the world, you may see those bridges may no longer be passable.

Did Trump burn bridges all over Europe last week? - Yellow Bullet Forums


And that's a bad thing because... why? Are you really ready to relinquish American leadership so quickly? I am not sure you would like the consequences so much. Basically, if we don't want to play in the international scene anymore, others are more than happy to take over the job. Nature abhors a vacuum. America steps out, and all sorts of interesting characters are more than happy to step in... Russians, Chinese, etc...
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Did I say I was willing to relinquish American leadership? In my opinion, Trump exercised real leadership everywhere he went last week. That is something we have not seen for a very long time now.

McMaster and Cohn said it best in the WSJ yesterday and you don't get this kind of reporting from the MSM:
We are asking a lot of our allies and partners. But in return the U.S. will once again be a true friend. . . .

. . .America First does not mean America alone. It is a commitment to protecting and advancing our vital interests while also fostering cooperation and strengthening relationships with our allies and partners. A determination to stand up for our people and our way of life deepens our friends’ respect for America.

The president is unequivocal in declaring that America’s primary interest is the safety and security of our citizens. In discussions overseas, Mr. Trump encouraged others to join the U.S. in doing more to defeat the terrorist organizations that threaten peaceful nations around the world. He challenged leaders of more than 50 Muslim-majority countries to stand together “against the murder of innocent Muslims, the oppression of women, the persecution of Jews, and the slaughter of Christians.” . . .

. . .Strong alliances and economically thriving partners are a third vital American interest. As the president stated in Brussels, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is rooted in “the courage of our people, the strength of our resolve, and the commitments that bind us together as one.” While reconfirming America’s commitment to NATO and Article 5, the president challenged our allies to share equitably the responsibility for our mutual defense. We came away with new outcomes for the first time in decades: More allies are stepping up to meet their defense commitments. By asking for more buy-in, we have deepened our relationships. That is not surprising. Alliances based on mutual respect and shared responsibility are strong. And strong alliances bolster American power. . . .

. . .We are asking a lot of our allies and partners. But in return America will once again be a true friend to our partners and the worst foe to our enemies. The president’s visit showed the power of both competing to advance interests and engaging to develop relationships and foster cooperation. We have a vital interest in taking the lead internationally to advance American military, political and economic strength.

We engage with the world not to impose our way of life but to “secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.” That means identifying the interests and principles that make America uncommon and advancing them in the Middle East, with our NATO allies, with the G-7 nations and beyond. . .​
https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-first-doesnt-mean-america-alone-1496187426

There is a lot more in this piece re what was accomplished last week.

I honestly cannot see how anybody who is an American can find serious fault with this. But the MSM is mostly putting out the same talking points you are: Trump insulted our allies, refuses to cooperate, is burning bridges yadda yadda. All fake news.
 
AlbqOwl said:
Did I say I was willing to relinquish American leadership? In my opinion, Trump exercised real leadership everywhere he went last week. That is something we have not seen for a very long time now.

McMaster and Cohn said it best in the WSJ yesterday and you don't get this kind of reporting from the MSM:
We are asking a lot of our allies and partners. But in return the U.S. will once again be a true friend. . . .

. . .America First does not mean America alone. It is a commitment to protecting and advancing our vital interests while also fostering cooperation and strengthening relationships with our allies and partners. A determination to stand up for our people and our way of life deepens our friends’ respect for America.

The president is unequivocal in declaring that America’s primary interest is the safety and security of our citizens. In discussions overseas, Mr. Trump encouraged others to join the U.S. in doing more to defeat the terrorist organizations that threaten peaceful nations around the world. He challenged leaders of more than 50 Muslim-majority countries to stand together “against the murder of innocent Muslims, the oppression of women, the persecution of Jews, and the slaughter of Christians.” . . .

. . .Strong alliances and economically thriving partners are a third vital American interest. As the president stated in Brussels, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is rooted in “the courage of our people, the strength of our resolve, and the commitments that bind us together as one.” While reconfirming America’s commitment to NATO and Article 5, the president challenged our allies to share equitably the responsibility for our mutual defense. We came away with new outcomes for the first time in decades: More allies are stepping up to meet their defense commitments. By asking for more buy-in, we have deepened our relationships. That is not surprising. Alliances based on mutual respect and shared responsibility are strong. And strong alliances bolster American power. . . .

. . .We are asking a lot of our allies and partners. But in return America will once again be a true friend to our partners and the worst foe to our enemies. The president’s visit showed the power of both competing to advance interests and engaging to develop relationships and foster cooperation. We have a vital interest in taking the lead internationally to advance American military, political and economic strength.

We engage with the world not to impose our way of life but to “secure the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity.” That means identifying the interests and principles that make America uncommon and advancing them in the Middle East, with our NATO allies, with the G-7 nations and beyond. . .​
https://www.wsj.com/articles/america-first-doesnt-mean-america-alone-1496187426

There is a lot more in this piece re what was accomplished last week.

I honestly cannot see how anybody who is an American can find serious fault with this. But the MSM is mostly putting out the same talking points you are: Trump insulted our allies, refuses to cooperate, is burning bridges yadda yadda. All fake news.
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When some long-time friends, eager to see you, invite you over to their house for the first time, you don't go in there and tell them they owe you money (when they actually don't) in front of everybody. All while you act buddy-buddy with their adversary.

NATO leaders had envisioned this summit as an introduction to the new US President, adjusting the format to make it more accommodating for Trump, changing the date, shortening the day-long proceedings -- in part by telling leaders to make speeches briefer -- and making a casual dinner the centerpiece of the gathering.

Trump goes in there, lectures and scolds them. They don't owe anybody money. They are more than happy to discuss the personal finances and business- in private. This sort of aggressive alpha-male behavior just turned them off to us. I don't understand how any American can't see that. Very embarrassing.

All of what you say would even make a little sense if he had not just taken all those pictures with the Russians, shaking their hands warmly and grinning from ear to ear in the oval office, allowing only the Russian press in and keeping out the US press, even though everyone knows they just hacked our election. This doesn't bother you even a little bit?
 
ataraxia said:
When some long-time friends, eager to see you, invite you over to their house for the first time, you don't go in there and tell them they owe you money (when they actually don't) in front of everybody. All while you act buddy-buddy with their adversary.

NATO leaders had envisioned this summit as an introduction to the new US President, adjusting the format to make it more accommodating for Trump, changing the date, shortening the day-long proceedings -- in part by telling leaders to make speeches briefer -- and making a casual dinner the centerpiece of the gathering.

Trump goes in there, lectures and scolds them. They don't owe anybody money. They are more than happy to discuss the personal finances and business- in private. This sort of aggressive alpha-male behavior just turned them off to us. I don't understand how any American can't see that. Very embarrassing.

All of what you say would even make a little sense if he had not just taken all those pictures with the Russians, shaking their hands warmly and grinning from ear to ear in the oval office, allowing only the Russian press in and keeping out the US press, even though everyone knows they just hacked our election. This doesn't bother you even a little bit?
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First Trump was not invited because they wanted to meet him. We are a member nation in the organization. And they need us more than we need them.

Second I doubt seriously they did anything at all to accommodate President Trump any more than anybody else.

Third I listened to the speech. He neither lectured nor scolded anybody. He made it clear what his/our position was but he was 100% diplomatic and respectful doing it. It demonstrated more leadership than I have seen from any President for a very long time now.

And your post showed its true colors as fake news and dishonest reporting by throwing the Russians into the mix as if one thing had anything to do with another. Doesn't it embarrass you guys at all when you do that?
 
AlbqOwl said:
And your post showed its true colors as fake news and dishonest reporting by throwing the Russians into the mix as if one thing had anything to do with another. Doesn't it embarrass you guys at all when you do that?
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LOL.

Do you have any ****ing clue on why NATO exists as an organization???

Hint.... it has a lot to do with the large nation to the East of Europe.
 
Threegoofs said:
LOL.

Do you have any ****ing clue on why NATO exists as an organization???

Hint.... it has a lot to do with the large nation to the East of Europe.
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Make friends with that nation, and who needs NATO? Hail Putin! Hail Trump!
 
Strange that no comments appeared mentioning Ms. Merkel's hissy fit over being identified, along with other NATO members, for not supporting the defensive efforts of the coalition in accordance with their agreements. The overall economic strength of Germany is directly proportional to our very strong presence there, over a period of over 4 decades; not just that they had little (to none) worries over national defense, but also for the many billions of dollars (and DM, and Euros) injected into their economy by those of us serving there. 17 of my 24 years were spent in Germany, and each facility we left was in much better shape than it was when we first occupied it. Your welcome, Ms. Merkel.
 
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