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Is Putin Statesman of the Year?

coldjoint said:
Like your post just did?
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Not the issue here seeing how I'm not taking things OT
Stop.
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Indeed, heed thyself.

To return to the topic, anything you have to contribute on whether Putin really is (or can be considered) statesman of the year?
 
Van Basten said:
Lmao, good joke.



Seeing some of these right wingers talk about Putin and Trump is turning from hilarity to concern. This is what it must have been like when the American far left were playing apologist for Stalin in the 30's to the early 50's.
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If Putin were desperately seeking conflict, if he were a war monger, he would have responded differently when his bomber was shot down by Turkey.

You're on very thin ice. There is not much at all to support your position regarding Putin's actions.
 
Chagos said:
Not the issue here seeing how I'm not taking things OTIndeed, heed thyself.

To return to the topic, anything you have to contribute on whether Putin really is (or can be considered) statesman of the year?
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Why are you playing moderator?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Their legal system is different than ours. I haven't read much about it, but certain aspects of Russian law is quite democratic.

The Harvard trained Prez of Georgia did the invading, and the Russians responded and prevailed. The invaders were using US & Israeli weapons and equipment.

Nuland's Goons were operating on behalf of the US Dept of State under Hitlery. They were working in their normal MO, destabilizing legitimate governments. Putin is no fool, and was not about to give up the seaport. Only an idiot would. The voters in Crimea have made it very clear they are happy to be back in Mother Russia.

Give me a break dude.
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Re Crimea you would be better off with the argument that many leaders in the West had been clear before he took action that the West was not going to support any changes to national boarders there or anywhere for any reason, so there was no longer any moral obligation to deal with the project of getting Crimea back through civilized means, because this stance by the West represented a break-down of global civility.
 
Thoreau72 said:
His brutality is often part of the job description, many humans can be very brutal. See Stanley Milgram.

How and when has he been deceptive? I thought he was very frank in his appearance at the UN regarding Russian action in Syria.
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How about, for starters, when he denied that troops in Eastern Ukraine were Russian?

Or, before that, when Russian troops (masked of course) took over the Crimean Supreme Council?
 
Thoreau72 said:
Is Putin the 'Preeminent Statesman' of Our Times?

What say thee? Pat Buchanan does have a certain vision that others don't.
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Buchanan was Trump with a brain before there was a demand for the product "Trump".

I actually read the Imprimis piece that ole Pat bases his thing on. Frankly, if you adopt their rules of judgement, they have something of a case. I don't share their judgement. Autocrats and dictators aren't "statesmen" in my book. That line of reasoning would have thought what of Hitler before, say 1938?
 
Thoreau72 said:
If Putin were desperately seeking conflict, if he were a war monger, he would have responded differently when his bomber was shot down by Turkey.

You're on very thin ice. There is not much at all to support your position regarding Putin's actions.
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Explain the subjugation of eastern Ukraine and the crimea.
 
Thoreau72 said:
And in the case of Syria and the GWOT in general, he happens to be on the side of the 'right thing to do'.
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His involvement is for the benefit of Russia and no one else. He wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone unless by doing so he could hurt someone else.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
His involvement is for the benefit of Russia and no one else. He wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone unless by doing so he could hurt someone else.
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Bull, He will help Russia friends (for instance China and Iran), because it is in his and Russia's advantage if he does.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
What is amazing is he does all that while still remaining popular with his people.
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Putin does a very good job of appealing to Russian nationalism whenever he needs a boost in popularity, by labeling enemies of Russia and the Russian people as "fascists", likening them the Third Reich to stir up Russian animosity towards potential threats.
 
PIPEWRENCH said:
His involvement is for the benefit of Russia and no one else. He wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone unless by doing so he could hurt someone else.
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Putin is protecting his asset, Assad. He's not engaged in any GWOT.
 
Porkuloss said:
Putin is protecting his asset, Assad. He's not engaged in any GWOT.
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Assad is an idiot although what comes after Assad is a big problem.....but primarily what Putin wants is to be a player in the region in part by keeping the military bases, in part by doing something productive for the region after so much failure from USA, and he wants to help his team members Iran and China, both of whom have extensive interests both in the region and in how the region effects Europe.
 
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PIPEWRENCH said:
I don't trust him at all. I do not respect him but anyone who underestimates him will come up on the short side of the stick.

He made a fool out of Obama and the sanctions only ended up with Putin destroying Hillary. I don't think trump is working with Putin. I think if Trump makes the same mistakes as the democrats did with Putin he will take Trump down as well.

Anyone naive enough to believe this is the first time Russia has hacked information from our government (both Parties) is clearly a fool. He has turned our election process into a clown show.

Putin has neutralized Trump with this scandal. He is playing the democrats and republicans against each other like a professional puppet-master. He has eliminated the ability of our government to work together and accomplish anything.

We need Bush senior back in office. At least we would have someone on Putin's level.
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Agreed. As for that next-to-last sentence......ehhhhhh.........................
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Assad is an idiot although what comes after Assad is a big problem.....but primarily what Putin wants is to be a player in the region in part by keeping the military bases, in part by doing something productive for the region after so much failure from USA, and he wants to help his team members Iran and China, both of whom have extensive interests both in the region and in how the region effects Europe.
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Yes. And Assad has a warm water port.

My point was that as soon as the terrorists simply stop being a threat to Assad, Putin's boys will vamoose. Putin's interests are Putin's interests. If the problem moves over to Iraq, Putin will be happy.
 
Porkuloss said:
Yes. And Assad has a warm water port.

My point was that as soon as the terrorists simply stop being a threat to Assad, Putin's boys will vamoose. Putin's interests are Putin's interests. If the problem moves over to Iraq, Putin will be happy.
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Russia will not leave Syria under any condition, it is their most major base in the region for the forseeable future.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
Russia will not leave Syria under any condition, it is their most major base in the region for the forseeable future.
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Agreed. The warm water port and base in the region are why Putin is there. I really screwed that post up - thinking about something else when I wrote it. The Russians won't leave, but they won't fight any "terrorists" not threatening Assad.
 
Anyone know how rich Putin is, and how he got all of that money???

Statesman? Meh, sure.
 
Porkuloss said:
Agreed. The warm water port and base in the region are why Putin is there. I really screwed that post up - thinking about something else when I wrote it. The Russians won't leave, but they won't fight any "terrorists" not threatening Assad.
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My point is that Assad is useful, until he is not. Maybe they care enough about him to extract him and his immediate family and let them retire in Russia instead of being jailed or hunted down like Gaddafi , but that is the best that Assad can hope for once changing him out makes sense Putin, he will do it in a heartbeat and it might not take long to get there who can say.....

As for what the Russians do who can say what Team China/Russia/Iran will decide is in there best interests in the region...they want stability, they want to do a lot of buying and selling to include selling military gear....Embarrassing the departing USA with good management skills is always nice...but how they get there I dont think anyone knows just yet.
 
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Van Basten said:
Obama is worse than Putin now?

Anti-Obama delusion is reaching new heights.
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When it comes to international decision...

Absolutely yes!

Obama is worse than Putin!
 
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