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Erdogan threatens Europe

ChezC3 said:
I don't think he realizes how easily we can turn Turkey into another Iraq or Syria.
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Turkey will be like neither Iraq or Syria. The country has a strong national identify formed around a cohesive ethnic group, backed by a (somewhat) stable civil administration and a capable and well armed military. Turkey is an actual functioning nation-state, not just a bunch of warring tribes and groups held together by a dictatorship.
 
cuban smokes said:
I could NEVER understand why The United States has this love affair of getting involved with authoritarian politicos & dictators .........
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Didn't you know? Bad guys are only bad guys if they don't bow to our will. It's totally not an objective assessment. That's why Assad is a bad guy and the Saudi royal family are good guys. Get with the program, sheesh!
 
Fishking said:
Europe can figure that out for themselves. The U.S. cannot afford, neither is it appreciated, to play Team America World Police.
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Europe is our ally, it most certainly is our concern.
 
Abbazorkzog said:
The conventional threat is not nonexistent. While the U.S. may be far superior militarily, Turkey is far from non-threatening. Turkey is a regional power with political influence in Bulgaria, Cyprus, Syria, Iraq and the Caucasus - not to mention the Turkish military is the second-strongest military in the entirety of NATO.
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Not to mention unlike most Arab states, Turkey has a single strong national identity, a well armed and large armed forces, and the entire country is a massive cluster of mountains with most of it's population and industry concentrated in the rugged western half.

I doubt even the US could invade Turkey without suffering absolutely atrocious casualties.
 
Fishking said:
I remember when Iraq was this big, giant, threat as well. It had the 4th or 5th largest army in the world. We curb-stomped them. There is no conventional threat from any military in the entire world. It's all about asymmetric threats.
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The Iraqi army was a bunch of untrained, poorly led conscripts who couldn't topple an Iranian force of mostly light infantry and old tanks.

Anyone who looked objectively at Iraq could see it was a paper tiger propped up only by it's vast arsenal and size. Their performance in Iran testified to that.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Not to mention unlike most Arab states, Turkey has a single strong national identity, a well armed and large armed forces, and the entire country is a massive cluster of mountains with most of it's population and industry concentrated in the rugged western half.

I doubt even the US could invade Turkey without suffering absolutely atrocious casualties.
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Dunno if I would consider Turkey "Arab", if most of their population is centered toward the Istanbul-dominated Northwest, but that's just me. But, yeah. Turkey - not only is powerful - but would pull all countries in its sphere of influence even closer to Erdogan. Bulgaria would probably get a military junta, and Romania and Eastern Europe would be screwed. Not to mention Russia would be there...
 
Abbazorkzog said:
Dunno if I would consider Turkey "Arab", if most of their population is centered toward the Istanbul-dominated Northwest, but that's just me. But, yeah. Turkey - not only is powerful - but would pull all countries in its sphere of influence even closer to Erdogan. Bulgaria would probably get a military junta, and Romania and Eastern Europe would be screwed. Not to mention Russia...
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You're right, I didn't mean to indicate they were Arab. I should've used Middle Eastern.

A Turkish withdrawal from NATO would put it firmly in Russia's camp and severely undermine NATO's foothold in the Middle East, and well as weaken it's standings in the Balkans. This is a path that needs to be tread very carefully, or we could end up with two strong men opposed to American/NATO interests in a very unhelpful geopolitical position.
 
JANFU said:
The present Govt will eventually change.
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If it's one thing we know, it's that the M.E. is prone to positive change! Look at the region! They've been a backwards theocracy for centuries, but in a few hundred millenia they'll reach their own religious equivalent to our own Western Enlightenment.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
The Iraqi army was a bunch of untrained, poorly led conscripts who couldn't topple an Iranian force of mostly light infantry and old tanks.

Anyone who looked objectively at Iraq could see it was a paper tiger propped up only by it's vast arsenal and size. Their performance in Iran testified to that.
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*shrug* I'll leave ya'll to believe that Turkey poses a conventional military challenge to the U.S. It's obvious nothing will convince you otherwise. I stand by my statement that they represent a bigger asymmetric threat.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
You're right, I didn't mean to indicate they were Arab. I should've used Middle Eastern.

A Turkish withdrawal from NATO would put it firmly in Russia's camp and severely undermine NATO's foothold in the Middle East, and well as weaken it's standings in the Balkans. This is a path that needs to be tread very carefully, or we could end up with two strong men opposed to American/NATO interests in a very unhelpful geopolitical position.
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Not to mention, Turkish and Russian fleets and flotilla would have the Bosporus and thus the entire Mediterranean and Black Sea to play in, and would bring a reign of terror never before seen to the entire Western Hemisphere. The North Atlantic would be theirs, rendering NATO pretty much extinct in practice. And while the U.S. would still beat Turkey and Russia militarily, it would be a phyrric victory for the U.S. and a strategic victory for Turkey and Russia because Eastern Europe would be indistinguishable from a region in Africa.
 
Fishking said:
*shrug* I'll leave ya'll to believe that Turkey poses a conventional military challenge to the U.S. It's obvious nothing will convince you otherwise. I stand by my statement that they represent a bigger asymmetric threat.
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Nobody said Turkey could defeat the U.S., but Turkey is literally the size and greater the strength than pre-WWII Nazi Germany. It wouldn't be easy for the U.S. alone.
 
Fishking said:
*shrug* I'll leave ya'll to believe that Turkey poses a conventional military challenge to the U.S. It's obvious nothing will convince you otherwise. I stand by my statement that they represent a bigger asymmetric threat.
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It absolutely is a challenge.

Back in 1999, a country with a GDP smaller than the budget of the USAF managed to hold out against the combined air power of NATO. If Serbia could do it, why couldn't Turkey, who's much more powerful and well armed?
 
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