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Diplomacy in a Trump world

Bergslagstroll

Bergslagstroll

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Bergslagstroll said:
Message from the Netherlands to the new American president.



UK got a head start by appointing Boris Johnson as their secretary of states even before Trump won the election. A politcian that have insulted a large part of the world even before he became secretary of state.

Here's how Boris Johnson insulted YOUR country - CNN.com

Countries Boris Johnson has insulted.
Click to expand...


You have a point. Obama was nicer to listen to and didn't say that he would let the Eu hang, if the didn't fix Ukraine or Syria. And now this jerk says that he will no longer stand for paying the Eu's free ride and that they had to put up funds and troops, if they wanted to live under the US umbrella and compete on business, while the Americans pay.
 
joG said:
You have a point. Obama was nicer to listen to and didn't say that he would let the Eu hang, if the didn't fix Ukraine or Syria. And now this jerk says that he will no longer stand for paying the Eu's free ride and that they had to put up funds and troops, if they wanted to live under the US umbrella and compete on business, while the Americans pay.
Click to expand...

What do you mean with a free ride? For example the EU countries together spend a lot more on the military than Russia. Also some countries like Denmark have made massive support to USA both in Iraq and Afganisthan compared to their size.

MaggieD said:
That's just stupid.
Click to expand...

In a Trump world you may need politcians that can answer back like this quote from Boris Johnson.

Crime has been falling steadily in both London and New York - and the only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump.
Click to expand...

Boris Johnson: 'The only reason I wouldn't visit some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump' - Telegraph

On a serious note the election of Donald Trump and the rise of far right parties in Europe can make it harder for countries to cooperate on issues like terrorism and global warming.

Also that multinational corporation can play out countries against each other on the expence on ordinary people. Like for example if Trumps tax cuts for business leads to more business moving to USA other countries will respond with their own tax cuts for business. Leading to citizen have to pay a larger percent of taxes and also to welfare cuts. In the UK, Brexit can lead to that UK want to compete with EU countries by keeping and also lessen regulation for their tax havens. Making it's easier for wealthy and big business to avoid paying taxes and leading to a larger percent of taxes have to be paid by ordinary citizen and small businesses.

Also their can be a demand to lessen regulation to attract business. on the expance of the citizens. Like for example Donald Trump is talking about cutting back emission control for coal power plants even if coal power plants leads to 13 000 premature deaths in the USA.

Estimated health effects from U.S. coal-fired power plant emissions
 
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Bergslagstroll said:
What do you mean with a free ride? For example the EU countries together spend a lot more on the military than Russia. Also some countries like Denmark have made massive support to USA both in Iraq and Afganisthan compared to their size.



In a Trump world you may need politcians that can answer back like this quote from Boris Johnson.



Boris Johnson: 'The only reason I wouldn't visit some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump' - Telegraph

On a serious note the election of Donald Trump and the rise of far right parties in Europe can make it harder for countries to cooperate on issues like terrorism and global warming.

Also that multinational corporation can play out countries against each other on the expence on ordinary people. Like for example if Trumps tax cuts for business leads to more business moving to USA other countries will respond with their own tax cuts for business. Leading to citizen have to pay a larger percent of taxes and also to welfare cuts. In the UK, Brexit can lead to that UK want to compete with EU countries by keeping and also lessen regulation for their tax havens. Making it's easier for wealthy and big business to avoid paying taxes and leading to a larger percent of taxes have to be paid by ordinary citizen and small businesses.

Also their can be a demand to lessen regulation to attract business. on the expance of the citizens. Like for example Donald Trump is talking about cutting back emission control for coal power plants even if coal power plants leads to 13 000 premature deaths in the USA.

Estimated health effects from U.S. coal-fired power plant emissions
Click to expand...

If you cared about the future you would concentrate on more pressing problems. Living without freedom is like suffocating. And it is not Trump that threatens freedom.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
What do you mean with a free ride? For example the EU countries together spend a lot more on the military than Russia. Also some countries like Denmark have made massive support to USA both in Iraq and Afganisthan compared to their size.



In a Trump world you may need politcian that can answer back like this quote from Boris Johnson.



Boris Johnson: 'The only reason I wouldn't visit some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump' - Telegraph

On a serious note the election of Donald Trump and the rise of far right parties in Europe can make it harder for countries to cooperate on issues like terrorism and global warming.

Also that multinational corporation can play out countries against each other on the expence on ordinary people. Like for example if Trumps tax cuts for business leads to more business moving to USA other countries will respond with their own tax cuts for business. Leading to citizen have to pay a larger percent of taxes and also to welfare cuts. Also Brexit can lead to that UK want to keep and also lessen regulation for their tax havens. Making it's easier for wealthy and big business to avoid paying taxes and leading to a larger percent of taxes have to be paid by ordinary citizen and small businesses.

Also their can be a demand to lessen regulation to attract business. on the expance of the citizens. Like for example Donald Trump is talking about cutting about emission control for coal power plants even if coal power plants leads to 13 000 premature deaths in the USA.

Estimated health effects from U.S. coal-fired power plant emissions
Click to expand...

You are funning me, right? Other than France and U.K., which country in the Eu has spent its obligations under NATO in more than one year of the last ten? And which has outside of those two has put the most boots on the ground in peace or security missions in the last ten?
Von der Leyen admitted in Hardtalk on BBC today that they certainly aren't and are struggling to increase expenditures.
 
coldjoint said:
If you cared about the future you would concentrate on more pressing problems. Living without freedom is like suffocating. And it is not Trump that threatens freedom.
Click to expand...

Here in Europe far right parties for example restrict freedom of the press then they come to power. Like for example Hungary that under the Orban goverment has fallen to place 67 on World Press Freedom Index.

https://rsf.org/en/hungary

Then it come to Donald Trump he for example have suggested that a person that burn the flag could be sentenced to jail and even loos of citizenship.

Donald Trump: Burn the flag, go to jail - CNNPolitics.com

Also he want to make it easier to sue media outlets.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...es-how-he-could-do-it/?utm_term=.c2645cf1baaf

joG said:
You are funning me, right? Other than France and U.K., which country in the Eu has spent its obligations under NATO in more than one year of the last ten? And which has outside of those two has put the most boots on the ground in peace or security missions in the last ten?
Von der Leyen admitted in Hardtalk on BBC today that they certainly aren't and are struggling to increase expenditures.
Click to expand...

The top 15 countries with biggest military spending consist mostly of USA, EU countries and their allies. That at the same time the combined military spending of the EU countries is many times bigger the Russia’s spending and according to some sources EU have even bigger spending than the combined military spending of Russia and China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union

So the demand for more military spending can been seen as a way of boosting the weapon manufactures profit on the expense of the taxpayers. Instead the need seems to be more coordination and cooperation between EU and USA and their mutual allies and also more efficiency.

Also Denmark is the country with highest fatalities per capita in Afghanistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Here in Europe far right parties for example restrict freedom of the press then they come to power. Like for example Hungary that under the Orban goverment has fallen to place 67 on World Press Freedom Index.

https://rsf.org/en/hungary

Then it come to Donald Trump he for example have suggested that a person that burn the flag could be sentenced to jail and even loos of citizenship.

Donald Trump: Burn the flag, go to jail - CNNPolitics.com

Also he want to make it easier to sue media outlets.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...es-how-he-could-do-it/?utm_term=.c2645cf1baaf



The top 15 countries with biggest military spending consist mostly of USA, EU countries and their allies. That at the same time the combined military spending of the EU countries is many times bigger the Russia’s spending and according to some sources EU have even bigger spending than the combined military spending of Russia and China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union

So the demand for more military spending can been seen as a way of boosting the weapon manufactures profit on the expense of the taxpayers. Instead the need seems to be more coordination and cooperation between EU and USA and their mutual allies and also more efficiency.

Also Denmark is the country with highest fatalities per capita in Afghanistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan
Click to expand...

It is very sad that Denmark and others actually lost lives in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
But, if you look at the amounts of spending relative to GDP, you might find a reason for the relatively small contingents of troops the EU countries deploy to peace keeping and security enforcing efforts. You will also see that this is not new. The US is down in relative spending to 3% plus while Europeans excluding France and England are up to 1% plus. As EU countries are economic competitors this alone gives them a 2% of GDP advantage against the US. You should be ashamed of yourself to propagate this free riding. At least von der Leyen understands that and is mouthing that Germany will correct this.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
Here in Europe far right parties for example restrict freedom of the press then they come to power. Like for example Hungary that under the Orban goverment has fallen to place 67 on World Press Freedom Index.

https://rsf.org/en/hungary

Then it come to Donald Trump he for example have suggested that a person that burn the flag could be sentenced to jail and even loos of citizenship.

Donald Trump: Burn the flag, go to jail - CNNPolitics.com

Also he want to make it easier to sue media outlets.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...es-how-he-could-do-it/?utm_term=.c2645cf1baaf



The top 15 countries with biggest military spending consist mostly of USA, EU countries and their allies. That at the same time the combined military spending of the EU countries is many times bigger the Russia’s spending and according to some sources EU have even bigger spending than the combined military spending of Russia and China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union

So the demand for more military spending can been seen as a way of boosting the weapon manufactures profit on the expense of the taxpayers. Instead the need seems to be more coordination and cooperation between EU and USA and their mutual allies and also more efficiency.

Also Denmark is the country with highest fatalities per capita in Afghanistan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_casualties_in_Afghanistan
Click to expand...

You do see the word "suggested" don't you? Everyone, even the president, is entitled to an opinion.
 
That was hilarious

"Grab em by the pony"

:lol:
 
joG said:
It is very sad that Denmark and others actually lost lives in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
But, if you look at the amounts of spending relative to GDP, you might find a reason for the relatively small contingents of troops the EU countries deploy to peace keeping and security enforcing efforts. You will also see that this is not new. The US is down in relative spending to 3% plus while Europeans excluding France and England are up to 1% plus. As EU countries are economic competitors this alone gives them a 2% of GDP advantage against the US. You should be ashamed of yourself to propagate this free riding. At least von der Leyen understands that and is mouthing that Germany will correct this.
Click to expand...

You need a reason for spending taxpayers money. That already EU countries spend over three times more on their military compared to Russia the closest potential enemy. That at the same time EU and USA together spend between three and four times more on their military compared to Russia and China combined.

Also their are other ways to contribute to a better world like for example The Good Country Index show.

https://goodcountry.org/index/overall-rankings#
 
Bergslagstroll said:
You need a reason for spending taxpayers money. That already EU countries spend over three times more on their military compared to Russia the closest potential enemy. That at the same time EU and USA together spend between three and four times more on their military compared to Russia and China combined.

Also their are other ways to contribute to a better world like for example The Good Country Index show.

https://goodcountry.org/index/overall-rankings#
Click to expand...

You are right that governments should only spend taxpayer money, when there is a reason. The reason Europeans did not spend money was because they knew they didn't have to as long as the US would do so anyway. You see, security is a public good. If one country makes it, the others can use it without paying.

The reason that Europeans did not spend tax money on security was that they could free ride it. That left them with a competitive advantage that the partially used for social programs. What a Good Country that is, dishonest but ever so Good.
 
joG said:
You are right that governments should only spend taxpayer money, when there is a reason. The reason Europeans did not spend money was because they knew they didn't have to as long as the US would do so anyway. You see, security is a public good. If one country makes it, the others can use it without paying.

The reason that Europeans did not spend tax money on security was that they could free ride it. That left them with a competitive advantage that the partially used for social programs. What a Good Country that is, dishonest but ever so Good.
Click to expand...

As I already wrote Europe already spend three times more on their military than Russia. Also with today’s increasing tensions it maybe not be a good idea with another arm race. Take for example this comment from Mikhail Gorbachev.

Mikhail Gorbachev: Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump Arms Race | Time.com

You also have the Doomsday clock shifted to 2,5 minutes to midnight.

http://www.sciencealert.com/the-doo...es-to-midnight-but-what-does-that-really-mean

It was a really a wasted moment that USA and Russia didn’t disarm their nuclear armaments a lot more during the 90’s then it was an opportunity do that. Because it could have both same those countries taxpayers a lot of money and made the world safer for all. That for example “only” having 300 nukes would be more than enough of a deterrent.
Also it’s really good that many EU countries are leading the shift to renewable energy. Because the Gulf war, the War in Afghanistan and the Iraq War have all directly and indirectly been related to west dependency on Middle Eastern oil.

If you talking about the cold war small Sweden hade for example one of the world’s biggest air force during the 50's peak of the cold war. We would probably also have had our own nukes if wasn’t for political reason. Also Sweden designed several own fighter jets that is a big achievement for such small countries. That at the Sweden had compulsory military service.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
As I already wrote Europe already spend three times more on their military than Russia. Also with today’s increasing tensions it maybe not be a good idea with another arm race. Take for example this comment from Mikhail Gorbachev.

Mikhail Gorbachev: Vladimir Putin, Donald Trump Arms Race | Time.com

You also have the Doomsday clock shifted to 2,5 minutes to midnight.

http://www.sciencealert.com/the-doo...es-to-midnight-but-what-does-that-really-mean

It was a really a wasted moment that USA and Russia didn’t disarm their nuclear armaments a lot more during the 90’s then it was an opportunity do that. Because it could have both same those countries taxpayers a lot of money and made the world safer for all. That for example “only” having 300 nukes would be more than enough of a deterrent.
Also it’s really good that many EU countries are leading the shift to renewable energy. Because the Gulf war, the War in Afghanistan and the Iraq War have all directly and indirectly been related to west dependency on Middle Eastern oil.

If you talking about the cold war small Sweden hade for example one of the world’s biggest air force during the 50's peak of the cold war. We would probably also have had our own nukes if wasn’t for political reason. Also Sweden designed several own fighter jets that is a big achievement for such small countries. That at the Sweden had compulsory military service.
Click to expand...

You are not thinking the problem from the demand side and your examples are just so much fact falsification by anecdote.
 
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