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Germany deportation headache with North African migrants

MickeyW

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Berlin (AFP) - Since the million-strong influx of migrants into Germany last year, authorities there have struggled to deport failed asylum seekers from Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria when their home countries refuse to take them back.

The issue has been put into sharp focus by the massive manhunt for Anis Amri, the 24-year-old Tunisian who Chancellor Angela Merkel confirmed on Thursday is the alleged perpetrator of the truck attack on a Christmas market in Berlin that claimed 12 lives.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-deportation-headache-north-african-migrants-200947296.html

I'd say they have a huge problem on their hands.
 
I'd say they have a huge problem on their hands.

Why? We've had way more terrorist attacks than they have and way more deaths. What makes their problems worse than ours?

Also, I know this doesn't matter to you because your feelings supercede facts, but Amri didn't come in with the recent surge of asylum seekers. He landed in Italy from Tunisia in 2011 and was imprisoned for arson, assault, and theft. The Italians let him go despite knowing he was a violent criminal. [1]

As much as you'd love to picture Germany as a violent **** hole, it's nowhere near the US in any crime metric, despite having a higher percentage of muslims.
 
Berlin (AFP) - Since the million-strong influx of migrants into Germany last year, authorities there have struggled to deport failed asylum seekers from Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria when their home countries refuse to take them back.

The issue has been put into sharp focus by the massive manhunt for Anis Amri, the 24-year-old Tunisian who Chancellor Angela Merkel confirmed on Thursday is the alleged perpetrator of the truck attack on a Christmas market in Berlin that claimed 12 lives.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-deportation-headache-north-african-migrants-200947296.html

I'd say they have a huge problem on their hands.

No bigger problem than any other nation. Seems you dont understand how international agreements work. Do you really think the US can send back a citizen of another country if that country refuses to accept them? Of course not. This is standard practice world wide and it is you that are ignorant of reality.
 
Why? We've had way more terrorist attacks than they have and way more deaths. What makes their problems worse than ours?

Also, I know this doesn't matter to you because your feelings supercede facts, but Amri didn't come in with the recent surge of asylum seekers. He landed in Italy from Tunisia in 2011 and was imprisoned for arson, assault, and theft. The Italians let him go despite knowing he was a violent criminal. [1]

As much as you'd love to picture Germany as a violent **** hole, it's nowhere near the US in any crime metric, despite having a higher percentage of muslims.

Ahh. The last times it was the Greeks. So now it is the Italiens?

If you have been following the discussion in any detail, you will have noticed, that MickeyW's observation is maybe not long enough or enough differentiating. It does capture a good part of the mainstream debate.
It is being mentioned that that Merkel made bad mistakes, that the BRD is not prepared although the politicians had known the dangers, that the suspect was categorized in the highest danger level and had been being watched until the monitoring had been stopped (probably for reasons of costs), that the NSA activities were mostly good and that Germany has already introduced many of the things that were demonized a short while ago and that many more of the US measures are being adopted, with far less control of the groups implementing the measures, than are existent in the US and much more. The things I am hearing from friends in the CDU and even the FDP about the electioneering being prepared for are hair raising. There is no doubt that the country is in danger. The dangers are not, however, so much the terrorist attacks that must be expected and will almost certainly materialize, but dealing with the totally naive ideas in the population of how security is made and how bureaucracies and governments must be controlled by check and balances. The most potent dangers are in how the politics will develop in reaction to the terror.
 
Berlin (AFP) - Since the million-strong influx of migrants into Germany last year, authorities there have struggled to deport failed asylum seekers from Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria when their home countries refuse to take them back.

The issue has been put into sharp focus by the massive manhunt for Anis Amri, the 24-year-old Tunisian who Chancellor Angela Merkel confirmed on Thursday is the alleged perpetrator of the truck attack on a Christmas market in Berlin that claimed 12 lives.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-deportation-headache-north-african-migrants-200947296.html

I'd say they have a huge problem on their hands.

That's because they are being too nice about it.

I'd simply load deportees on planes and ships, make sure to have combat escorts (warships/fighter planes) then drop them off on shore using landing craft or push them out of the planes at the most convenient combat landing zone.

If some pissant little nation wants to declare war over the forced return of their own citizens, fine. Regardless, they WILL be taking them back. :coffeepap:
 
Berlin (AFP) - Since the million-strong influx of migrants into Germany last year, authorities there have struggled to deport failed asylum seekers from Tunisia, Morocco and Algeria when their home countries refuse to take them back.

The issue has been put into sharp focus by the massive manhunt for Anis Amri, the 24-year-old Tunisian who Chancellor Angela Merkel confirmed on Thursday is the alleged perpetrator of the truck attack on a Christmas market in Berlin that claimed 12 lives.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/germany-deportation-headache-north-african-migrants-200947296.html

I'd say they have a huge problem on their hands.

And that is even if their home countries can be identified. At various times Amri claimed to come from Lebanon and Egypt, at other times from Tunisia. He used at least seven different names.
 
And that is even if their home countries can be identified. At various times Amri claimed to come from Lebanon and Egypt, at other times from Tunisia. He used at least seven different names.

.....and Tunisia delayed taking him back after it had been established whence he came. Practically simultaneous to the attack they granted him entry.
 
That's because they are being too nice about it.

I'd simply load deportees on planes and ships, make sure to have combat escorts (warships/fighter planes) then drop them off on shore using landing craft or push them out of the planes at the most convenient combat landing zone.

If some pissant little nation wants to declare war over the forced return of their own citizens, fine. Regardless, they WILL be taking them back. :coffeepap:

Tpamnfian "diplomacy" doesn't work.
 
Why? We've had way more terrorist attacks than they have and way more deaths. What makes their problems worse than ours?

Also, I know this doesn't matter to you because your feelings supercede facts, but Amri didn't come in with the recent surge of asylum seekers. He landed in Italy from Tunisia in 2011 and was imprisoned for arson, assault, and theft. The Italians let him go despite knowing he was a violent criminal. [1]

As much as you'd love to picture Germany as a violent **** hole, it's nowhere near the US in any crime metric, despite having a higher percentage of muslims.

I don't picture Germany as a violent ****hole, but I do understand what a boob Merkel is and she needs to be replaced! My feelings don't supersede any facts. Feelings having nothing to do with any post I make. It's all logic.
I'm well aware of the history of this terrorist Muslim asswipe ...and posted an article on him. liberals are ....Fools!

No bigger problem than any other nation. Seems you dont understand how international agreements work. Do you really think the US can send back a citizen of another country if that country refuses to accept them? Of course not. This is standard practice world wide and it is you that are ignorant of reality.

I understand how these agreements work. Look what happened when obama wanted to get rid of GITMO. No countries would take the vermin without arm twisting. Liberals are fools...
 
Ahh. The last times it was the Greeks. So now it is the Italiens?

If you have been following the discussion in any detail, you will have noticed, that MickeyW's observation is maybe not long enough or enough differentiating. It does capture a good part of the mainstream debate.
It is being mentioned that that Merkel made bad mistakes, that the BRD is not prepared although the politicians had known the dangers, that the suspect was categorized in the highest danger level and had been being watched until the monitoring had been stopped (probably for reasons of costs), that the NSA activities were mostly good and that Germany has already introduced many of the things that were demonized a short while ago and that many more of the US measures are being adopted, with far less control of the groups implementing the measures, than are existent in the US and much more. The things I am hearing from friends in the CDU and even the FDP about the electioneering being prepared for are hair raising. There is no doubt that the country is in danger. The dangers are not, however, so much the terrorist attacks that must be expected and will almost certainly materialize, but dealing with the totally naive ideas in the population of how security is made and how bureaucracies and governments must be controlled by check and balances. The most potent dangers are in how the politics will develop in reaction to the terror.

Excellent post and spot on! :thumbs::thumbs:

That's because they are being too nice about it.

I'd simply load deportees on planes and ships, make sure to have combat escorts (warships/fighter planes) then drop them off on shore using landing craft or push them out of the planes at the most convenient combat landing zone.

If some pissant little nation wants to declare war over the forced return of their own citizens, fine. Regardless, they WILL be taking them back. :coffeepap:

You got it. :thumbs:

And that is even if their home countries can be identified. At various times Amri claimed to come from Lebanon and Egypt, at other times from Tunisia. He used at least seven different names.

I'd just push him out in to the southern Mediterranean with a flotation device(large deflated balloon that he could blow up on the way down) and call it good. ;)

.....and Tunisia delayed taking him back after it had been established whence he came. Practically simultaneous to the attack they granted him entry.

That's right.

Tpamnfian "diplomacy" doesn't work.

Speak English.
 
In this country, at least, there are other ways to deal with violent aliens whose home nations either refuse to accept them or cannot be determined. One would be to intern them, either directly, or after they had been convicted of crimes sentenced to prison, and served their terms. Germany may not have too many suitable sites for internment camps, but there is no shortage of them here. Western nations are at war with Islamist savages, and they had better wake up to that fact and start treating jihadists who engage in acts of war against them as unlawful combatants.

These jihadist mass murders we are seeing are not ordinary crimes, and the perpetrators, especially if they are aliens, should not be treated as ordinary criminals. In some cases, at least in the U.S., jihadists should be tried for war crimes. If convicted by military tribunals, they should be sentenced accordingly. Congress should amend the law to make hanging the means of execution for any of these crimes where the sentence is death, and the proceedings on the gallows should be televised live for the world to see. We should stop worrying about what Muslim jihadists may do to us, and instead make them worry about what we may do to them.
 
Why? We've had way more terrorist attacks than they have and way more deaths. What makes their problems worse than ours?

Also, I know this doesn't matter to you because your feelings supercede facts, but Amri didn't come in with the recent surge of asylum seekers. He landed in Italy from Tunisia in 2011 and was imprisoned for arson, assault, and theft. The Italians let him go despite knowing he was a violent criminal. [1]

As much as you'd love to picture Germany as a violent **** hole, it's nowhere near the US in any crime metric, despite having a higher percentage of muslims.



Yep. A ton of people incorrectly assess marginal risk when it comes to something that is scary and seemingly random. (ie, worries about your plane going down but no worries when you get behind the wheel, despite the latter being a couple orders of magnitude more likely to get you killed).

I regularly point out that, for example, 1,400,000 violent crimes and 14,000 homicides are committed every year in America. This often generates responses like, "oh yeah? But they weren't committed because religion!" Nope, not the point. The point is that if we're going to have a sane policy about terrorism, then we need to first assess our overall approach to things like homicides and violent crimes. Perhaps we should also consider our response to things like drunk driving, which in one year kills at least 10 times the number of Americans that terrorists did in the last 20. And only then should we formulate a proportional response to the actual threat terrorism poses.

Sadly, people aren't big fans of sane policies, so "I'm scared of being blown up on the subway" turns into "bar all refugees!", but "I don't want to be hit by a drunk driver" doesn't turn into "twenty years imprisonment and permanent loss of license for first DUI!"




Human nature.....

It got enough of us away from tigers and pissed off mastodons, but it doesn't serve us so well when it comes to complex modern issues that aren't so well served by basic instinct.
 
In this country, at least, there are other ways to deal with violent aliens whose home nations either refuse to accept them or cannot be determined. One would be to intern them, either directly, or after they had been convicted of crimes sentenced to prison, and served their terms. Germany may not have too many suitable sites for internment camps, but there is no shortage of them here. Western nations are at war with Islamist savages, and they had better wake up to that fact and start treating jihadists who engage in acts of war against them as unlawful combatants.

??

If we know someone is a "violent alien", it is because they've been caught and convicted of a violent crime. We deport those. They're transferred from state or federal prison to ICE custody, then deported, subject to human error of course.






These jihadist mass murders we are seeing are not ordinary crimes, and the perpetrators, especially if they are aliens, should not be treated as ordinary criminals. In some cases, at least in the U.S., jihadists should be tried for war crimes. If convicted by military tribunals, they should be sentenced accordingly. Congress should amend the law to make hanging the means of execution for any of these crimes where the sentence is death, and the proceedings on the gallows should be televised live for the world to see. We should stop worrying about what Muslim jihadists may do to us, and instead make them worry about what we may do to them.

Because people trying to blow themselves up or intending to die in a post-massacre shootout with the police will be deterred by a death sentence?

Unless you are suggesting we become monsters like ISIS and crucify them or something similar (in which case we deserve the same penalty), then I'm not sure what deterrence has got to do with it. In other words: we did our best to shoot down Kamikaze Japanese pilots, but it sure wasn't because we thought it might scare the others off.
 
Yep. A ton of people incorrectly assess marginal risk when it comes to something that is scary and seemingly random. (ie, worries about your plane going down but no worries when you get behind the wheel, despite the latter being a couple orders of magnitude more likely to get you killed).

I regularly point out that, for example, 1,400,000 violent crimes and 14,000 homicides are committed every year in America. This often generates responses like, "oh yeah? But they weren't committed because religion!" Nope, not the point. The point is that if we're going to have a sane policy about terrorism, then we need to first assess our overall approach to things like homicides and violent crimes. Perhaps we should also consider our response to things like drunk driving, which in one year kills at least 10 times the number of Americans that terrorists did in the last 20. And only then should we formulate a proportional response to the actual threat terrorism poses.

Sadly, people aren't big fans of sane policies, so "I'm scared of being blown up on the subway" turns into "bar all refugees!", but "I don't want to be hit by a drunk driver" doesn't turn into "twenty years imprisonment and permanent loss of license for first DUI!"




Human nature.....

It got enough of us away from tigers and pissed off mastodons, but it doesn't serve us so well when it comes to complex modern issues that aren't so well served by basic instinct.

Off Topic entirely! This is about Germany, not the US.
 
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