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What the Right simply doesn't get about "Islamic Terrorism"

Glen Contrarian said:
Are there nations where there's lots of Muslims that there's been no significant terrorist attacks? Let's see here: Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Solakia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Croatia, Ukraine...the list goes on.
Click to expand...

Germany:
2011 Frankfurt Airport shooting
2015 Berlin police stabbing

Spain:
2004 Madrid train bombing

Denmark:
2008 Odense shopping mall shootings
2010 Copenhagen terror plot (foiled, five Islamist terrorists arrested)
2015 Copenhagen shootings

Italy:
2009 Milan Army Barracks bombing

Sweden: 2010 Stockholm bombings

There have been fatwas issued all across Europe calling for the deaths of individual Europeans, primarily authors and journalists, who dare to speak out against Islam.

I would also argue that the fact that there hasn't yet been an effectively executed terror attack, or a high profile foiled attack, doesn't mean that there haven't been foiled attacks that have been kept quiet or attacks currently being planned.
 
Let's be clear, liberals would be the first in line to convert to Islam if the Muslims goal of "convert or kill" came to fruition.

All their talk means jack, if the s**t comes down, they're growing a beard and bowing to Mecca.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Muslim terrorists have staged major terrorist attacks in the following first-world nations: America, England, France, Russia, a couple small ones in Australia, and now Belgium. They're striking EVERYwhere, huh?

But wait. Are there nations where there's lots of Muslims that there's been no significant terrorist attacks? Let's see here: Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Solakia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Croatia, Ukraine...the list goes on.

So one must ask why it is that so many of these nations which DO have significant Muslim populations aren't having any significant terrorist attacks? Yes, there was some egregious crap going on in Germany during the New Year, but it wasn't a terrorist attack. Why haven't there been attacks in Italy and Spain, even though they've got significant Muslim populations?

What's the common denominator?

Belgium, we've since found, has a largely dysfunctional governmental system that makes it easy for bad people to fly under the radar. All the rest have been very active in military actions in the Middle East...whereas almost none of the rest have been militarily active to any significant extent in the Middle East. In other words, it would seem that terrorists who happen to follow Islam aren't at war with the West or with "Christianity"...but with those nations who have conducted the most military strikes in the Middle East.

One more thing - Fox News just reported that ISIS sent 400 fighters to Europe to make terrorist strikes. Generally speaking, it takes about 10 people in a military chain of logistics to keep one man on the fighting front. It's probably significantly less when it comes to terrorists, but let's stick with the 10-1 ratio. That means that there may be as many as 4000 trained ISIS fighters and their supporters in Europe. Sounds like a LOT, doesn't it? But are they really representative of Muslims? Even as early as 2010, there were about 13 million Muslims in the EU...there's certainly many more now. That means that AT MOST one out of every 325 Muslims either is or supports ISIS.

One out of every 325. That means the other 324 do NOT support terrorism, and that it is flatly wrong to blame Muslims or Islam itself for terrorism.

Many on the Right wonder why it is that Muslims haven't condemned the Brussels attack en masse...and here's the answer that one Muslim gave:

Because we’re driving the taxis that have been taking the population home for free since yesterday …
Because we’re caring for the wounded in hospitals …
Because we’re driving the ambulances that are racing through the streets like shooting stars to try to save what life remains in us …
Because we’re at the reception desks of the hotels that have been welcoming onlookers for free since yesterday …
Because we’re driving the buses, the trams, and the subway cars so that life can continue, though wounded …
Because we’re still looking for criminals in our police, investigator, and magistrate outfits …
Because we’re crying for our dead, too …
Because we are no more spared than anyone else …
Because we are doubly, triply bruised …
Because the same faith produced the executioner and the victim …
Because we’re groggy, lost, and we’re trying to understand …
Because we spent the night on our doorstep waiting for a person who won’t come back again …
Because we’re counting our dead …
Because we’re in mourning …
The rest is only silence …
Click to expand...

Im really not sure what your point is or what it is you claim people are missing. But I do have a question for you: why is it you only use this 'logic' when it comes to muslims? Have you ever tried applying this standard to, say, gun violence?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Muslim terrorists have staged major terrorist attacks in the following first-world nations: America, England, France, Russia, a couple small ones in Australia, and now Belgium. They're striking EVERYwhere, huh?

But wait. Are there nations where there's lots of Muslims that there's been no significant terrorist attacks? Let's see here: Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Solakia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Croatia, Ukraine...the list goes on.

So one must ask why it is that so many of these nations which DO have significant Muslim populations aren't having any significant terrorist attacks? Yes, there was some egregious crap going on in Germany during the New Year, but it wasn't a terrorist attack. Why haven't there been attacks in Italy and Spain, even though they've got significant Muslim populations?

What's the common denominator?

Belgium, we've since found, has a largely dysfunctional governmental system that makes it easy for bad people to fly under the radar. All the rest have been very active in military actions in the Middle East...whereas almost none of the rest have been militarily active to any significant extent in the Middle East. In other words, it would seem that terrorists who happen to follow Islam aren't at war with the West or with "Christianity"...but with those nations who have conducted the most military strikes in the Middle East.

One more thing - Fox News just reported that ISIS sent 400 fighters to Europe to make terrorist strikes. Generally speaking, it takes about 10 people in a military chain of logistics to keep one man on the fighting front. It's probably significantly less when it comes to terrorists, but let's stick with the 10-1 ratio. That means that there may be as many as 4000 trained ISIS fighters and their supporters in Europe. Sounds like a LOT, doesn't it? But are they really representative of Muslims? Even as early as 2010, there were about 13 million Muslims in the EU...there's certainly many more now. That means that AT MOST one out of every 325 Muslims either is or supports ISIS.

One out of every 325. That means the other 324 do NOT support terrorism, and that it is flatly wrong to blame Muslims or Islam itself for terrorism.

Many on the Right wonder why it is that Muslims haven't condemned the Brussels attack en masse...and here's the answer that one Muslim gave:

Because we’re driving the taxis that have been taking the population home for free since yesterday …
Because we’re caring for the wounded in hospitals …
Because we’re driving the ambulances that are racing through the streets like shooting stars to try to save what life remains in us …
Because we’re at the reception desks of the hotels that have been welcoming onlookers for free since yesterday …
Because we’re driving the buses, the trams, and the subway cars so that life can continue, though wounded …
Because we’re still looking for criminals in our police, investigator, and magistrate outfits …
Because we’re crying for our dead, too …
Because we are no more spared than anyone else …
Because we are doubly, triply bruised …
Because the same faith produced the executioner and the victim …
Because we’re groggy, lost, and we’re trying to understand …
Because we spent the night on our doorstep waiting for a person who won’t come back again …
Because we’re counting our dead …
Because we’re in mourning …
The rest is only silence …
Click to expand...

Too argumentative, and we cannot be for certain that "one Muslim" really speaks for the majority. We are engaging in hyper-partisanship without really considering what we should be concerning Islamic Terrorism.
 
This Glen guy is really ignorant about Islam. Now he knows.
 
Orly? said:
Not a single one of, or all together are good arguments not to condemn these suicide bombings!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a terrorist sympathizer and apologist.
Click to expand...

We have over 308,000,000 citizens in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census

About 70% are Christian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_religious_demographics_of_the_United_States



While plenty of Christians and religious/non-religious citizens and figureheads condemn all the terrorist attacks carried out in the US by Christians (ie, Dylan Roof, etc.), the number is nowhere near 215,600,000.

There are 1,500,000,000-2,000,000,000 muslims worldwide. Precisely what percentage do you expect to condemn terrorism?

Most importantly: what happens if "the media" - particularly that segment of the media interested in condemning muslims - tends not to report on it?



Go digging on the internet. Tons of muslims/muslim leaders condemn fundamentalist terrorism. It is reported on, but not at the same rate as Christian US Politician does talking about the Nth school shooting.




And of course, there's a separate problem: your slander does not seek any nuance in whether we're talking about a rural semi-dark-age village in deep Afghanistan (or similar country) and resident of developed country. If you want to compare violence between religions, you need to look at Christian countries/etc, in their Dark Age capacity, and compare them to said rural semi-dark-age village in deep Afghanistan (or similar country).

The driving force is a combination of (1) fundamentalism in religion, (2) poverty, (3) isolation from the modern world, and (4) stability of country.

If you compare Christian acts of evil to Muslim acts of evil taking these factors into account, you'll find that far more blood was historically spent by Christians when in comparable states of civilization.




There is of course also the element of tribalism. It is inherent for an individual to demand more from another group than from one's own. It is inherent for an individual to apply nuance to one's own group, but overgeneralize about another group.




All that said, ISIS must be exterminated.

daleks.jpg
 
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Check your math, Dude. 1 out of 325 equals about 2,000,000 supporters of terrorism
 
Mr Person said:
And of course, there's a separate problem: your slander does not seek any nuance in whether we're talking about a rural semi-dark-age village in deep Afghanistan (or similar country) and resident of developed country. If you want to compare violence between religions, you need to look at Christian countries/etc, in their Dark Age capacity, and compare them to said rural semi-dark-age village in deep Afghanistan (or similar country).
Click to expand...

We were talking about European populations.. Facts are not slander..
 
WCH said:
Check your math, Dude. 1 out of 325 equals about 2,000,000 supporters of terrorism
Click to expand...

True.


But I think we don't need to care as much about polls as we do about the number who provide material support, cover, etc.




take a less extreme example: The percentage of people who want to legalize pot =/= the percentage of people who smoke like Willie Nelson.


There's also the poll question. A lot of the poll questions leading to those kind of numbers are pretty misleading. Like, "could you support X in any circumstances"?

Consider...what would the poll numbers be if we asked "Could you support using a hydrogen bomb in any circumstances?"

Well, I bet you'd get a large number of Americans saying YES. Because "any" means "any", including (1) nuclear attack by Russia, (2) nuclear attack by NK, (3) attack by aliens. Etc.

It's very easy to generate a high rate of unfavorable responses with a particular question
 
Mr Person said:
We have over 308,000,000 citizens in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census

About 70% are Christian

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_religious_demographics_of_the_United_States



While plenty of Christians and religious/non-religious citizens and figureheads condemn all the terrorist attacks carried out in the US by Christians (ie, Dylan Roof, etc.), the number is nowhere near 215,600,000.

There are 1,500,000,000-2,000,000,000 muslims worldwide. Precisely what percentage do you expect to condemn terrorism?

Most importantly: what happens if "the media" - particularly that segment of the media interested in condemning muslims - tends not to report on it?



Go digging on the internet. Tons of muslims/muslim leaders condemn fundamentalist terrorism. It is reported on, but not at the same rate as Christian US Politician does talking about the Nth school shooting.




And of course, there's a separate problem: your slander does not seek any nuance in whether we're talking about a rural semi-dark-age village in deep Afghanistan (or similar country) and resident of developed country. If you want to compare violence between religions, you need to look at Christian countries/etc, in their Dark Age capacity, and compare them to said rural semi-dark-age village in deep Afghanistan (or similar country).

The driving force is a combination of (1) fundamentalism in religion, (2) poverty, (3) isolation from the modern world, and (4) stability of country.

If you compare Christian acts of evil to Muslim acts of evil taking these factors into account, you'll find that far more blood was historically spent by Christians when in comparable states of civilization.




There is of course also the element of tribalism. It is inherent for an individual to demand more from another group than from one's own. It is inherent for an individual to apply nuance to one's own group, but overgeneralize about another group.




All that said, ISIS must be exterminated.

View attachment 67199238
Click to expand...



Orly? said:
We were talking about European populations.. Facts are not slander..
Click to expand...



Mmmm...

Doesn't sound so snappy when I undo the cherry-picking eh?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Muslim terrorists have staged major terrorist attacks in the following first-world nations: America, England, France, Russia, a couple small ones in Australia, and now Belgium. They're striking EVERYwhere, huh?

But wait. Are there nations where there's lots of Muslims that there's been no significant terrorist attacks? Let's see here: Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Solakia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Croatia, Ukraine...the list goes on.

So one must ask why it is that so many of these nations which DO have significant Muslim populations aren't having any significant terrorist attacks? Yes, there was some egregious crap going on in Germany during the New Year, but it wasn't a terrorist attack. Why haven't there been attacks in Italy and Spain, even though they've got significant Muslim populations?

What's the common denominator?

Belgium, we've since found, has a largely dysfunctional governmental system that makes it easy for bad people to fly under the radar. All the rest have been very active in military actions in the Middle East...whereas almost none of the rest have been militarily active to any significant extent in the Middle East. In other words, it would seem that terrorists who happen to follow Islam aren't at war with the West or with "Christianity"...but with those nations who have conducted the most military strikes in the Middle East.

One more thing - Fox News just reported that ISIS sent 400 fighters to Europe to make terrorist strikes. Generally speaking, it takes about 10 people in a military chain of logistics to keep one man on the fighting front. It's probably significantly less when it comes to terrorists, but let's stick with the 10-1 ratio. That means that there may be as many as 4000 trained ISIS fighters and their supporters in Europe. Sounds like a LOT, doesn't it? But are they really representative of Muslims? Even as early as 2010, there were about 13 million Muslims in the EU...there's certainly many more now. That means that AT MOST one out of every 325 Muslims either is or supports ISIS.

One out of every 325. That means the other 324 do NOT support terrorism, and that it is flatly wrong to blame Muslims or Islam itself for terrorism.

Many on the Right wonder why it is that Muslims haven't condemned the Brussels attack en masse...and here's the answer that one Muslim gave:

Because we’re driving the taxis that have been taking the population home for free since yesterday …
Because we’re caring for the wounded in hospitals …
Because we’re driving the ambulances that are racing through the streets like shooting stars to try to save what life remains in us …
Because we’re at the reception desks of the hotels that have been welcoming onlookers for free since yesterday …
Because we’re driving the buses, the trams, and the subway cars so that life can continue, though wounded …
Because we’re still looking for criminals in our police, investigator, and magistrate outfits …
Because we’re crying for our dead, too …
Because we are no more spared than anyone else …
Because we are doubly, triply bruised …
Because the same faith produced the executioner and the victim …
Because we’re groggy, lost, and we’re trying to understand …
Because we spent the night on our doorstep waiting for a person who won’t come back again …
Because we’re counting our dead …
Because we’re in mourning …
The rest is only silence …
Click to expand...

In this context let me call this research by PEW to mind:
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups | Pew Research Center
 
joG said:
In this context let me call this research by PEW to mind:
Muslim Publics Share Concerns about Extremist Groups | Pew Research Center
Click to expand...

EXTREM22.png


27% are not concerned at all..

EXTREM18.png

43% favorable view of al quaeda
49% favorable of the tlaban
55% favorable of hamas
58% favorable of hezbollah

That is terrifying support..

Your link completely proves my point..
 
Lets average that.. (43+49+55+58)/4=51.25

51.25% of these muslims surveyed are favorable of extremists groups..
 
Here's what I don't get about people like Glen; they are claiming that Muslim newcomers aren't getting a fair shake in their new countries.

Please, please, anyone who feels the way Glen does.. please tell me which ethnic group has had it easy in their migration process from their old country, to their new countries?

In fact, I could easily make the point that immigrants have it easier today, than any other time in history.

Social programs weren't available for immigrants until recently. We now offer free healthcare, free housing, free food, free living expenses to millions of immigrants in the U.S. None of that existed for my ancestors.

Irish and Scottish immigrants were placed on the front lines of the Civil War, where many of them died.

Chinese immigrants performed back breaking labor helping to build the transcontinental railroad, and in mining. They were heavily discriminated against while doing so.

At one point in the late 1700's, there were 55,000 involuntary white slave laborers who were sent to the United States as prisoners. Around this same time, 225,000 European indentured servant immigrants were present in the U.S.
---
When people claim that Muslim immigrants have it bad here, what the hell are they comparing it to? Seems to me like they have no grasp on the history of immigration to the US.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Muslim terrorists have staged major terrorist attacks in the following first-world nations: America, England, France, Russia, a couple small ones in Australia, and now Belgium. They're striking EVERYwhere, huh?

But wait. Are there nations where there's lots of Muslims that there's been no significant terrorist attacks? Let's see here: Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Solakia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Croatia, Ukraine...the list goes on.

So one must ask why it is that so many of these nations which DO have significant Muslim populations aren't having any significant terrorist attacks? Yes, there was some egregious crap going on in Germany during the New Year, but it wasn't a terrorist attack. Why haven't there been attacks in Italy and Spain, even though they've got significant Muslim populations?

What's the common denominator?

Belgium, we've since found, has a largely dysfunctional governmental system that makes it easy for bad people to fly under the radar. All the rest have been very active in military actions in the Middle East...whereas almost none of the rest have been militarily active to any significant extent in the Middle East. In other words, it would seem that terrorists who happen to follow Islam aren't at war with the West or with "Christianity"...but with those nations who have conducted the most military strikes in the Middle East.

One more thing - Fox News just reported that ISIS sent 400 fighters to Europe to make terrorist strikes. Generally speaking, it takes about 10 people in a military chain of logistics to keep one man on the fighting front. It's probably significantly less when it comes to terrorists, but let's stick with the 10-1 ratio. That means that there may be as many as 4000 trained ISIS fighters and their supporters in Europe. Sounds like a LOT, doesn't it? But are they really representative of Muslims? Even as early as 2010, there were about 13 million Muslims in the EU...there's certainly many more now. That means that AT MOST one out of every 325 Muslims either is or supports ISIS.

One out of every 325. That means the other 324 do NOT support terrorism, and that it is flatly wrong to blame Muslims or Islam itself for terrorism.

Many on the Right wonder why it is that Muslims haven't condemned the Brussels attack en masse...and here's the answer that one Muslim gave:

Because we’re driving the taxis that have been taking the population home for free since yesterday …
Because we’re caring for the wounded in hospitals …
Because we’re driving the ambulances that are racing through the streets like shooting stars to try to save what life remains in us …
Because we’re at the reception desks of the hotels that have been welcoming onlookers for free since yesterday …
Because we’re driving the buses, the trams, and the subway cars so that life can continue, though wounded …
Because we’re still looking for criminals in our police, investigator, and magistrate outfits …
Because we’re crying for our dead, too …
Because we are no more spared than anyone else …
Because we are doubly, triply bruised …
Because the same faith produced the executioner and the victim …
Because we’re groggy, lost, and we’re trying to understand …
Because we spent the night on our doorstep waiting for a person who won’t come back again …
Because we’re counting our dead …
Because we’re in mourning …
The rest is only silence …
Click to expand...

What a bunch of rubbish.
Ok lets talk about this.
You are incorrectly using the term first-world. I get what you mean. you mean modern industrialized I suppose. but the term first world doesn't include Russia.
What it does include is Turkey.. a country (one of them) that you neglected to mention.. which also has had terror attacks.
it also would include Spain.. another country you neglected to mention that has had terror attacks.
Philippines and Israel are not first world but first world allies.. but also countries you didn't mention that have had terror attacks.
There are of course others that are not mentioned.

But lets move on to your list of countries where there aren't terror attacks and there is lets see what was your quote "where there's lots of Muslims"
My first thought was Ireland? is there lots of muslims in Ireland... nope its about 1% .. and I thought Poland? nope not even 1%. Italy? 1.4% Norway? less than 1% Portugal? less than 1% Germany? 1.9% until very recently

Do you even research this or are you just making things up as you go??
 
Orly? said:
Not a single one of, or all together are good arguments not to condemn these suicide bombings!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a terrorist sympathizer and apologist.
Click to expand...
No, again you are in error.
Note read up on rules regarding insults- flaming and baiting.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Muslim terrorists have staged major terrorist attacks in the following first-world nations: America, England, France, Russia, a couple small ones in Australia, and now Belgium. They're striking EVERYwhere, huh?

But wait. Are there nations where there's lots of Muslims that there's been no significant terrorist attacks? Let's see here: Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Solakia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Sweden, Ireland, Switzerland, Austria, Romania, Bulgaria, Denmark, Croatia, Ukraine...the list goes on.

So one must ask why it is that so many of these nations which DO have significant Muslim populations aren't having any significant terrorist attacks? Yes, there was some egregious crap going on in Germany during the New Year, but it wasn't a terrorist attack. Why haven't there been attacks in Italy and Spain, even though they've got significant Muslim populations?

What's the common denominator?

Belgium, we've since found, has a largely dysfunctional governmental system that makes it easy for bad people to fly under the radar. All the rest have been very active in military actions in the Middle East...whereas almost none of the rest have been militarily active to any significant extent in the Middle East. In other words, it would seem that terrorists who happen to follow Islam aren't at war with the West or with "Christianity"...but with those nations who have conducted the most military strikes in the Middle East.

One more thing - Fox News just reported that ISIS sent 400 fighters to Europe to make terrorist strikes. Generally speaking, it takes about 10 people in a military chain of logistics to keep one man on the fighting front. It's probably significantly less when it comes to terrorists, but let's stick with the 10-1 ratio. That means that there may be as many as 4000 trained ISIS fighters and their supporters in Europe. Sounds like a LOT, doesn't it? But are they really representative of Muslims? Even as early as 2010, there were about 13 million Muslims in the EU...there's certainly many more now. That means that AT MOST one out of every 325 Muslims either is or supports ISIS.

One out of every 325. That means the other 324 do NOT support terrorism, and that it is flatly wrong to blame Muslims or Islam itself for terrorism.

Many on the Right wonder why it is that Muslims haven't condemned the Brussels attack en masse...and here's the answer that one Muslim gave:

Because we’re driving the taxis that have been taking the population home for free since yesterday …
Because we’re caring for the wounded in hospitals …
Because we’re driving the ambulances that are racing through the streets like shooting stars to try to save what life remains in us …
Because we’re at the reception desks of the hotels that have been welcoming onlookers for free since yesterday …
Because we’re driving the buses, the trams, and the subway cars so that life can continue, though wounded …
Because we’re still looking for criminals in our police, investigator, and magistrate outfits …
Because we’re crying for our dead, too …
Because we are no more spared than anyone else …
Because we are doubly, triply bruised …
Because the same faith produced the executioner and the victim …
Because we’re groggy, lost, and we’re trying to understand …
Because we spent the night on our doorstep waiting for a person who won’t come back again …
Because we’re counting our dead …
Because we’re in mourning …
The rest is only silence …
Click to expand...

One reason many overlook regarding motive for these attacks. ISIL is on the run now. ISIL needs recruits- prestige in their battle as number one over AQ.
That is one key reason for attacks.
 
JANFU said:
No, again you are in error.
Note read up on rules regarding insults- flaming and baiting.
Click to expand...

I know you are guys going to try to ban me at any chance you get because you disagree with what I say..
 
Orly? said:
I know you are guys going to try to ban me at any chance you get because you disagree with what I say..
Click to expand...
Wrong- I provided good advice. Personal attacks are frowned upon.
I would rather have you out in the open where i can take your views apart
 
JANFU said:
Wrong- I provided good advice. Personal attacks are frowned upon.
I would rather have you out in the open where i can take your views apart
Click to expand...

That is as much of a personal attack as someone calling me racist or an ignorant low information Trump supporter..
 
Orly? said:
That is as much of a personal attack as someone calling me racist or an ignorant low information Trump supporter..
Click to expand...

Nope- again you are in error.
I have no want to ban you. A member does that all by his little self. Read the rules.
Next- I am at the point where I have seen your posts and mindset on Muslims.
So how is tearing apart your views on Muslims an attack?
Come on down and explain it to me.
 
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