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Border Wall Construction Breaks Ground in South Donna – 509 Miles By 2020 Election

Doc91478 said:
Indeed, anyone that is right of center and not a dyed in the wool Leftist like Jim Acosta is considered dumb. Eh?
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1-Gateway Pundit Claimed “Anti-Trump Protester” Was Responsible For Charlottesville, VA, Attack. As The Daily Beast reported, The Gateway Pundit accused the wrong person of perpetrating an attack at the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, VA, in August. Police charged James Alex Fields Jr. with second-degree murder in the death of anti-racism activist Heather Heyer. The Gateway Pundit, however, claimed a different person was behind the attack, saying the perpetrator was an “Anti-Trump Protester
2-Gateway Pundit Used The Headline “WOW! Look At MASSIVE LINE To Trump’s Town Hall Event” Above A Picture From The Championship Parade Following The Cleveland Cavaliers’ NBA Finals Victory

I think 2 examples are sufficient.
 
mrjurrs said:
I have absolutely no interest in communicating with this lying hatemonger.
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Indeed, you'd rather bad mouth him on this forum than tell him personally.... How heroic of you....
 
mrjurrs said:
1-Gateway Pundit Claimed “Anti-Trump Protester” Was Responsible For Charlottesville, VA, Attack. As The Daily Beast reported, The Gateway Pundit accused the wrong person of perpetrating an attack at the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, VA, in August. Police charged James Alex Fields Jr. with second-degree murder in the death of anti-racism activist Heather Heyer. The Gateway Pundit, however, claimed a different person was behind the attack, saying the perpetrator was an “Anti-Trump Protester
2-Gateway Pundit Used The Headline “WOW! Look At MASSIVE LINE To Trump’s Town Hall Event” Above A Picture From The Championship Parade Following The Cleveland Cavaliers’ NBA Finals Victory

I think 2 examples are sufficient.
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So what the article is correct. Just how many times has WAPO, NY Times, CNN and others been caught in flagrant lies?

See:
Trump Celebrates 'Great Progress' on Border Wall After Site Visit Despite Having Hundreds of Miles Left to Build
Trump Celebrates 'Great Progress' on Border Wall After Site Visit Despite Having Hundreds of Miles Left to Build
Sep 19, 2019 · However, while Trump and his administration already appear to be celebrating the border wall project as a success, the fact remains that more than three-quarters of the 450 to 500 miles of …
************
Trump's Next DHS Chief Tasked with Completing 400 Miles of ...
Trump's Next DHS Chief Tasked with Completing 400 Miles of Border Wall...
10 days ago · In the last six months, though, DHS officials have routinely promised voters and Trump that they will have 500 miles of border wall fully constructed before the 2020 election — indicating that the project will need to move at a record pace to be completed in time.
 
Doc91478 said:
~~~~~~

The Berlin Wall was effective at keeping Eastern Germans from crossing into Western Germany. Because it wasn’t just a wall, but it was constantly manned and patrolled by soldiers with the order to shoot anybody who tried to cross the border to West Berlin. There were 5075 successful escapes between 1961 and 1989, 574 of whom were deserting guard soldiers. The estimated number of fatal escape attempts is 138. There is a number of 75,000 that were caught, but that is about the whole border - I don’t have a number for Berlin alone. Also for all of the border, roughly two-thirds to three quarters of the escape attempts weren’t successful. The total length of the Berlin Wall was 96 miles.
Israel cut its illegal immigration rate by "99 percent" by constructing border walls totaling 435 miles has been more than 90% effective.
Then there's the 2,500 mile East Indian border wall around Bangladesh.
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Listen up, Doc. Most, by a long shot, illegal immigrants cross the border legally. There's tens of thousands of legal border crossings every day at just one border check. Google San Ysidro border crossing. There's some in Texas that are nearly as active. People cross to visit friends and relatives, they cross for holiday trips, they cross to go shopping and then they just stay. That's how illegal immigration happens. Jose isn't wading the river with his clothes in a bundle on his head anymore. He used to do that back when he'd go back home after harvest season with his wages in his pocket but now he takes his family with him and stays and a wall won't stop him, not as long as he has a legal way to cross. You have to close the border crossings if you want that approach to work.
Another thing- some people in the US don't want Jose to be stopped. Some people make big bucks off cheap labour. Guess who those people are.
 
Grand Mal said:
Listen up, Doc. Most, by a long shot, illegal immigrants cross the border legally. There's tens of thousands of legal border crossings every day at just one border check. Google San Ysidro border crossing. There's some in Texas that are nearly as active. People cross to visit friends and relatives, they cross for holiday trips, they cross to go shopping and then they just stay. That's how illegal immigration happens. Jose isn't wading the river with his clothes in a bundle on his head anymore. He used to do that back when he'd go back home after harvest season with his wages in his pocket but now he takes his family with him and stays and a wall won't stop him, not as long as he has a legal way to cross. You have to close the border crossings if you want that approach to work.
Another thing- some people in the US don't want Jose to be stopped. Some people make big bucks off cheap labour. Guess who those people are.
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~~~~~~
Can you produce factual information with sources to back up your statement? The following doesn't look like ports of entry....


illegals-cross-border.jpg

******
mass-crossing-1.jpg
 
Doc91478 said:
Border wall construction advances in South Texas




Border wall construction advances in South Texas - Brownsville Herald: Local News
October 23, 2019 | Associated Press
Posted on 10/24/2019, 10:44:41 PM by entropy12
(AP) — Work crews in South Texas are laying steel along the U.S.-Mexico border in preparation for the installation of new segments of border wall. The U.S. Border Patrol said workers were installing steel rebar at a site south of Donna. The rebar will reinforce concrete panels that will in turn be topped with 18-foot steel bollards. Crews will also clear vegetation 150 feet in front of the wall. Environmental advocates and opponents of the wall have warned that construction will destroy critical habitat and require the seizure of land from potentially hundreds of people in South Texas.
The Border Patrol says a wall will deter drug and human smuggling. The ongoing construction was funded by Congress last year.


Comment:
If Walls don't work, why does the Pope have a 30 foot wall around the Vatican?

FACT CHECK: Did Hungary Reduce Illegal Immigration By 99%
https://checkyourfact.com/2018/10/28/fact-check-hungary-99-percent-border-wall/
Oct 28, 2018 · Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk claimed on Twitter that illegal immigration in Hungary decreased by 99 percent after the country built a border wall. Did you know: Hungary built a wall and illegal immigration collapsed by 99%. Illegal immigration went from 391,000 in 2015, to 18,236 in 2016, to just 1,184 in 2017.


Yet the wall haters are still screaming that the sky is falling.
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Yet the same people say that banning guns won't work.
 
Doc91478 said:
~~~~~~
he Great Wall of China. The official length of all the sections of the Great Wall in all dynasties is 21,196 km (13,170 mi). Today, only a few hundred kilometers of original wall are left for you to see. But it worked and was effective for centuries.....
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A wall built in 1211 can't be compared with a wall built in 2019. The circumstances and challenges were vastly different. Don't you think that anyone today coming from El Salvador couldn't breach an unguarded Great Wall of China? Sure, Genghis Khan was able to breach the wall but he had a vast Mongolian army and all they had to do was find one weak point, one small vulnerable tunnel and they poured through it. Walls don't work.

People will build tunnels under any portion of Trump's wall faster than he can build the wall. Tunnel border crossings is a huge business, growing so rapidly that large groups are now crossing together. These tunnels have electricity, ventilation and even underground rail systems to move people swiftly. The largest group that crossed so far was 376 at once, through a single tunnel.

Most of the border between Mexico and the U.S. is open desert with very low human density. Visibility for miles into Mexico is normally possible and the lack of trees and other thick cover makes approaching the U.S. border from the Mexican side being undetected very difficult, especially in this age of drones, thermal/night vision cameras and other technology. In this case, a tall wall would actually impede the detection of illegals because it would block on-the-ground line-of-sight observation via border agents with binoculars/similar - night vision equipped or otherwise.
 
Apples and oranges when comparing Hungary's illegal immigration problem to us. First, they are dealing with thousands who want to come to their nation whereas we deal with millions worldwide. Hungary is a land-locked nation with a handful of entry points, whereas we have two oceans and a gulf and many points of entry. And lastly...our illegals want to come to America...the illegals simply don't want to ask for asylum in Hungary as most are just using that nation to get to Germany where they actually want to be...

The Vatican is a city-state that goes back centuries whose walls were built to keep out armies not illegals. Further, you can just walk into the public areas of the Vatican like the main square as there are open check points that do not require passports, your driver's ID will get you in and you just have to walk through a metal detector. The main entrance goes straight to the streets of Rome. And that's it.

Sorry, your argument doesn't hold.
 
Doc91478 said:
~~~~~~
Can you produce factual information with sources to back up your statement? The following doesn't look like ports of entry....


illegals-cross-border.jpg

******
mass-crossing-1.jpg
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A cool thing about Google is if you right-click on a pic you get a drop-down menu that includes "search Google for image".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-of-immigrants-crossing-the-border-in-africa/

Turns out that pic was taken in Morocco, at a Spanish enclave called Mellila. Follow my link- it'll show how to get there by Google Earth.
 
HumblePi said:
A wall built in 1211 can't be compared with a wall built in 2019. The circumstances and challenges were vastly different. Don't you think that anyone today coming from El Salvador couldn't breach an unguarded Great Wall of China? Sure, Genghis Khan was able to breach the wall but he had a vast Mongolian army and all they had to do was find one weak point, one small vulnerable tunnel and they poured through it. Walls don't work.

People will build tunnels under any portion of Trump's wall faster than he can build the wall. Tunnel border crossings is a huge business, growing so rapidly that large groups are now crossing together. These tunnels have electricity, ventilation and even underground rail systems to move people swiftly. The largest group that crossed so far was 376 at once, through a single tunnel.

Most of the border between Mexico and the U.S. is open desert with very low human density. Visibility for miles into Mexico is normally possible and the lack of trees and other thick cover makes approaching the U.S. border from the Mexican side being undetected very difficult, especially in this age of drones, thermal/night vision cameras and other technology. In this case, a tall wall would actually impede the detection of illegals because it would block on-the-ground line-of-sight observation via border agents with binoculars/similar - night vision equipped or otherwise.
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~~~~~~
Then you'll now have to explain why the walls built in Hungary and Israel are working. That also includes the wall the East Germans built to keep their citizens in..... With all the technology you speak of it would still be difficult to keep illegals and smugglers fro crossing into the U.S. The wall needs o be an integral part of it all. It simply reduces the number of agents needed to respond to incursions.
 
Jason Warfield said:
Apples and oranges when comparing Hungary's illegal immigration problem to us. First, they are dealing with thousands who want to come to their nation whereas we deal with millions worldwide. Hungary is a land-locked nation with a handful of entry points, whereas we have two oceans and a gulf and many points of entry. And lastly...our illegals want to come to America...the illegals simply don't want to ask for asylum in Hungary as most are just using that nation to get to Germany where they actually want to be...

The Vatican is a city-state that goes back centuries whose walls were built to keep out armies not illegals. Further, you can just walk into the public areas of the Vatican like the main square as there are open check points that do not require passports, your driver's ID will get you in and you just have to walk through a metal detector. The main entrance goes straight to the streets of Rome. And that's it.

Sorry, your argument doesn't hold.
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~~~~~~
You're correct about the Vatican and that is why I didn't use it in my comments.... Hungary on the other hand see's a problem and has dealt with it successfully. Yes! their border is much smaller but they can control it. Without the wall separating Mexico from the U.S. we cannot control smuggling of drugs and illegal alien intrusions.
Without the wall even if we put 150,000 BP agents to protect illegal entry that would still not be enough to control the border.
 
im thinking that people have this wall business backwards! trump has disqiused this project not to keep illegals out , but, to keep liberals, from going south! its messed enough!
 
Trump has yet to build any new wall. It's all been replacement so far, much of which was planned before he took office.
 
Doc91478 said:
~~~~~~
Then you'll now have to explain why the walls built in Hungary and Israel are working. That also includes the wall the East Germans built to keep their citizens in..... With all the technology you speak of it would still be difficult to keep illegals and smugglers fro crossing into the U.S. The wall needs o be an integral part of it all. It simply reduces the number of agents needed to respond to incursions.
Click to expand...

The walls in Hungary are used to divert immigration flow through other nations. The majority of those coming into Hungary are doing so to get to Germany. Very few want to stay in Hungary. Hungary isn't a destination point for immigrants, it is a through point. That's why the wall in Hungary works.

As far as Israel goes...they don't exist to keep illegals out....they exist to protect themselves from actual military invasion by the nations surrounding Israel,

Using these examples would only work if the US were either simply a place to pass through to get to Canada...or if we had a history of and were currently under continuous military attack by Canada, Mexico, Central and South America. And no...civilians walking up to our borders does NOT constitute a military invasion of any kind.

Since the US does not fall under this category, the wall comparisons do not work.
 
Well, now that we have news of drug traffickers and coyotes starting to cut through some of the fence the Trump built up or up graded, this thread is kind of a moot point to me...

And I feel that my tax dollars have been wasted.
 
Jason Warfield said:
The walls in Hungary are used to divert immigration flow through other nations. The majority of those coming into Hungary are doing so to get to Germany. Very few want to stay in Hungary. Hungary isn't a destination point for immigrants, it is a through point. That's why the wall in Hungary works.

As far as Israel goes...they don't exist to keep illegals out....they exist to protect themselves from actual military invasion by the nations surrounding Israel,

Using these examples would only work if the US were either simply a place to pass through to get to Canada...or if we had a history of and were currently under continuous military attack by Canada, Mexico, Central and South America. And no...civilians walking up to our borders does NOT constitute a military invasion of any kind.

Since the US does not fall under this category, the wall comparisons do not work.
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~~~~~~~
Hmm... It seems the Russians did keep East Germans within their grasp successfully.
 
Doc91478 said:
~~~~~~
Then you'll now have to explain why the walls built in Hungary and Israel are working. That also includes the wall the East Germans built to keep their citizens in..... With all the technology you speak of it would still be difficult to keep illegals and smugglers fro crossing into the U.S. The wall needs o be an integral part of it all. It simply reduces the number of agents needed to respond to incursions.
Click to expand...

You're comparing a militarized, heavily armed 320 mile wall on the Israel and Gaza border to a US 450 mile iron wall in a sparse, uninhabitable and open dessert. The Israeli wall was built to prevent terrorism, not to prevent illegal immigrants. That's not an equitable comparison. The Israel barrier is meant to prevent terrorists and suicide bombers from entering Israel from Gaza. Since 1996, virtually all suicide bombers trying to leave Gaza have detonated their charges at the barrier's crossing points and were stopped while trying to cross the barrier elsewhere.

And by the way, the Berlin wall never really kept East Berliners from escaping even though that wall was heavily guarded with military and weapons, East Berliners escaping were often shot and killed. Escape from East Germany was not impossible. From 1961 until the wall came down in 1989, more than 5,000 East Germans (including some 600 border guards) managed to cross the border by jumping out of windows adjacent to the wall, climbing over the barbed wire, flying in hot air balloons, crawling through the sewers and driving through unfortified parts of the wall at high speeds.

I know little about the wall in Hungary so I can't comment about it. The U.S. does not need to waste money on a wall in the middle of nowhere. As I've stated in a previous post, walls don't keep people out. Tunnels are being built continually under border crossings. These are sophisticated tunnels with ventilation, sump pumps, rail systems, and solar-powered lighting. A 2018 progress report by the Customs and Border Patrol on Trump's proposed border wall found several prototypes were "breached" during recent tests and tunneling was not addressed in its border security analysis.
 
Grand Mal said:
Listen up, Doc. Most, by a long shot, illegal immigrants cross the border legally. There's tens of thousands of legal border crossings every day at just one border check. Google San Ysidro border crossing. There's some in Texas that are nearly as active. People cross to visit friends and relatives, they cross for holiday trips, they cross to go shopping and then they just stay. That's how illegal immigration happens. Jose isn't wading the river with his clothes in a bundle on his head anymore. He used to do that back when he'd go back home after harvest season with his wages in his pocket but now he takes his family with him and stays and a wall won't stop him, not as long as he has a legal way to cross. You have to close the border crossings if you want that approach to work.
Another thing- some people in the US don't want Jose to be stopped. Some people make big bucks off cheap labour. Guess who those people are.
Click to expand...
And why have millions of Latin Americans been so willing and eager to violate US immigration laws?

Because they believe the odds of deportation are slim but the likelihood of amnesty and citizenship are good.

Note my Signature below where the cause & effect of illegal immigration are simplified, detailed, and irrefutable.
 
Empirica said:
And why have millions of Latin Americans been so willing and eager to violate US immigration laws?

Because they believe the odds of deportation are slim but the likelihood of amnesty and citizenship are good.

Note my Signature below where the cause & effect of illegal immigration are simplified, detailed, and irrefutable.
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So we have an epidemic of capitalists addicted to illegal labor.

Better get to enforcing those laws, huh?
 
What if...? said:
So we have an epidemic of capitalists addicted to illegal labor.
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I think it's the cheap labor that interests the capitalists.

And the democrat's only interest is importing voters regardless of immigration law.

Better get to enforcing those laws, huh?
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I absolutely 100%! agree! :thumbs:

I believe in calling a spade, a spade; regardless of political affiliation.

And if you can say the same thing then I guess we're both supporters of Trump's immigration policies.
 
Empirica said:
I think it's the cheap labor that interests the capitalists.

And the democrat's only interest is importing voters regardless of immigration law.

I absolutely 100%! agree! :thumbs:

I believe in calling a spade, a spade; regardless of political affiliation.

And if you can say the same thing then I guess we're both supporters of Trump's immigration policies.
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So where are all those employers serving their time again?

Oh yeah. One episode of any size, with retaliation against those workers as the motive.

Get back to me when you have addressed the draw and we can talk about what else, if anything, needs to he done.
 
HumblePi said:
You're comparing a militarized, heavily armed 320 mile wall on the Israel and Gaza border to a US 450 mile iron wall in a sparse, uninhabitable and open dessert. The Israeli wall was built to prevent terrorism, not to prevent illegal immigrants. That's not an equitable comparison. The Israel barrier is meant to prevent terrorists and suicide bombers from entering Israel from Gaza. Since 1996, virtually all suicide bombers trying to leave Gaza have detonated their charges at the barrier's crossing points and were stopped while trying to cross the barrier elsewhere.

And by the way, the Berlin wall never really kept East Berliners from escaping even though that wall was heavily guarded with military and weapons, East Berliners escaping were often shot and killed. Escape from East Germany was not impossible. From 1961 until the wall came down in 1989, more than 5,000 East Germans (including some 600 border guards) managed to cross the border by jumping out of windows adjacent to the wall, climbing over the barbed wire, flying in hot air balloons, crawling through the sewers and driving through unfortified parts of the wall at high speeds.

I know little about the wall in Hungary so I can't comment about it. The U.S. does not need to waste money on a wall in the middle of nowhere. As I've stated in a previous post, walls don't keep people out. Tunnels are being built continually under border crossings. These are sophisticated tunnels with ventilation, sump pumps, rail systems, and solar-powered lighting. A 2018 progress report by the Customs and Border Patrol on Trump's proposed border wall found several prototypes were "breached" during recent tests and tunneling was not addressed in its border security analysis.
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Was Your source?: Israel's Great Wall - The Globalist

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I counter by saying that we already know that the many smuggling of drugs and humans is coming through the porous between Mexico and the U.S.
As far as militarization goes, we're employing nearly 21,000 armed border guards. That is slightly more than an Army division. So I would guess that we've already militarized our borders as well, not to mention all the technical equipment yet, the drug smugglers and coyotes pass back and forth at will. Yes I know they dig tunnels and climb ladders to get over through and under the obstacles we put before them. It is necessary to deter them as Democrats would say "by any means necessary". Did you know that many of the border and customs agents are of Mexican descent.
But we shouldn't have to worry about all this. After the PMS/DSA Leftists Schiff and Pelosi impeach trump they can tear down the walls and sing Kumbaya since we've only got a little better than 11 years before this planet is consumed by Climate Change....
 
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Doc91478 said:
Was Your source?: Israel's Great Wall - The Globalist

~~~~~~
I counter by saying that we already know that the many smuggling of drugs and humans is coming through the porous between Mexico and the U.S.
As far as militarization goes, we're employing nearly 21,000 armed border guards. That is slightly more than an Army division. So I would guess that we've already militarized our borders as well, not to mention all the technical equipment yet, the drug smugglers and coyotes pass back and forth at will. Yes I know they dig tunnels and climb ladders to get over through and under the obstacles we put before them. It is necessary to deter them as Democrats would say "by any means necessary". Did you know that many of the border and customs agents are of Mexican descent.
But we shouldn't have to worry about all this. After the PMS/DSA Leftists Schiff and Pelosi impeach trump they can tear down the walls and sing Kumbaya since we've only got a little better than 11 years before this planet is consumed by Climate Change....
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Regarding Israel: Wikipedia

Israel–Gaza barrier - Wikipedia

Regarding Mexico Tunnels: The Washington Post and Newsweek,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/01/14/trump-pushes-wall-authorities-keep-finding-drug-tunnels-under-us-mexico-border/

Israel–Gaza barrier - Wikipedia
 
Walls/Fences do work! Just ask the Border patrol!

April 6, 2006 4:37 PM ET

Before the fence was built, all that separated that stretch of Mexico from California was a single strand of cable that demarcated the international border.

Back then, Border Patrol agent Jim Henry says he was overwhelmed by the stream of immigrants who crossed into the United States illegally just in that sector.

"It was an area that was out of control," Henry says. "There were over 100,000 aliens crossing through this area a year."

Today, Henry is assistant chief of the Border Patrol's San Diego sector. He says apprehensions here are down 95 percent, from 100,000 a year to 5,000 a year, largely because the single strand of cable marking the border was replaced by double -- and in some places, triple -- fencing.

The first fence, 10 feet high, is made of welded metal panels. The second fence, 15 feet high, consists of steel mesh, and the top is angled inward to make it harder to climb over. Finally, in high-traffic areas, there's also a smaller chain-link fence. In between the two main fences is 150 feet of "no man's land," an area that the Border Patrol sweeps with flood lights and trucks, and soon, surveillance cameras.

San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control : NPR
 
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