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Thread: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Doesn't matter policies can be changed at will. otherwise future presidents are trapped with stupid decisions of past presidents and that is not how it is supposed to work.
    The policy, an executive branch memorandum, was announced by President Barack Obama on June 15, 2012.

    any memo can be undone or changed by the next president.

    this is prevents rule by fiat and why congress passing laws is so important.
    if obama can issue a memo trump can issue a new one and the courts that keep
    ruling against it are wrong.

    trump needs no more reason to undo it than obama did to create it.
    it is not law it is not set in stone.

    the only reason that trump or the agency needs is that they want to and have the authority.
    That is patently untrue. Agency action is controlled by the Administrative Procedure Act. There are regulations put in place by Congress, about how agencies may create and rescind rules.
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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal











    Should nearly a million young people, brought to the USA as children and educated here, be allowed to stay in the US, or deported to a country they don't know? That's an easy one for most of us to answer. Now, the question is: Will Obama's policy of letting them stay, or will Trump's policy of deporting them pass muster with the SCOTUS? I know what I hope will happen, but will it? What do you think?
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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
    My prediction is that the conservative majority will side with Trump.

    As awful as this is, it is the Presidents right to reverse policies of his predecessor. It's horrible, but I believe Trump can do it.
    I agree they will likely side with Trump. Next step, ICE roundups and detainment centers.

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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Are you pointing out this section?

    Administrative Procedure Act | National Archives

    I guess that would depend on if the DACA "requirements" listed were actual "rules" promulgated by the hearing processes required prior to implementation, or merely "policy" instructions.

    If the first is the case, then all that is required would be to have a hearing. NOTHING requires the agency to go along with the recommendations of any hearing presenter. The Agency may still do whatever it wanted to, making such hearings pro forma. Still, a case can be made for at least a "hearing."

    In the second case, policy can be modified as needed by the Agency. There is no special requirement under the APA for "hearings" or any other steps that I can see. Can you?



    Yet people in this thread, and in others, have been arguing that a President cannot simply change or rescind a prior executive order. That was why I posted that portion of my reply.
    I'm referring 5 U.S.C. ß 706(2)(A). The APA provides that a court “shall . . . hold unlawful and set aside agency action . . . found to be . . . arbitrary, capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with law.” Whether the rescission was arbitrary and capricious is up for debate, and I'd recommend reading Judge Bates' April opinion for a rundown and explanation. I do tend to side with his opinion, finding that the rescission memo was basically written poorly enough the Court has no choice but to find it arbitrary and capricious. But again, I would say it's up for debate.

    But what's not up for debate is that agencies do not have unlimited authority to act or to rescind prior agency action.
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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    That is patently untrue. Agency action is controlled by the Administrative Procedure Act. There are regulations put in place by Congress, about how agencies may create and rescind rules.
    The APA requires that to set aside agency actions that are not subject to formal trial-like procedures, the court must conclude that the regulation is "arbitrary and capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with the law.

    that is simple. the law is that the president can establish or undo past memo's.
    they don't need a reason why the constitution give them that authority.

    obama issued an executive memo which trump has the constitutional right to change the courts if they are following
    the law so far have been wrong.

    which is why i see the court undoing this unless roberts pulls another mickey like he has in the past and make up stuff that doesn't exist.

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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    The APA requires that to set aside agency actions that are not subject to formal trial-like procedures, the court must conclude that the regulation is "arbitrary and capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with the law.

    that is simple. the law is that the president can establish or undo past memo's.
    they don't need a reason why the constitution give them that authority.

    obama issued an executive memo which trump has the constitutional right to change the courts if they are following
    the law so far have been wrong.

    which is why i see the court undoing this unless roberts pulls another mickey like he has in the past and make up stuff that doesn't exist.
    The law is definitely not that simple. The APA does require that removing a rule or policy be done for reasons that are not arbitrary and capricious. There is no Constitutional right to agency action.
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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    The law is definitely not that simple. The APA does require that removing a rule or policy be done for reasons that are not arbitrary and capricious. There is no Constitutional right to agency action.
    it isn't an agency action it is an executive memo. i even posted it.
    obama issued an executive memo.

    trump can rescind the memo.
    he doesn't need a reason why.

    without the memo any policy is therefore null and void since the power of the policy came from the memo.

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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    it isn't an agency action it is an executive memo. i even posted it.
    obama issued an executive memo.

    trump can rescind the memo.
    he doesn't need a reason why.

    without the memo any policy is therefore null and void since the power of the policy came from the memo.
    It was by Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano through this memo. https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/...s-children.pdf

    It was rescinded through Acting Secretary Elaine Duke's memo. Memorandum on Rescission Of DACA | Homeland Security

    I encourage you to read the actual court opinions. The Trump Administration isn't even arguing that this isn't agency action.
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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by MovingPictures View Post
    My prediction is that the conservative majority will side with Trump.

    As awful as this is, it is the Presidents right to reverse policies of his predecessor. It's horrible, but I believe Trump can do it.
    Seems he can do anything he wants. Too bad he can't do what the people want.


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    Re: Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Itís not correct for the President to unilaterally create a law like Obama did with DACA, that responsibility resides with Congress. So ideally SCOTUS will allow Trump to do away with the DACA executive order and Congress will get its collective head out of its ass and pass legislation that deals with it once and for all.
    You are quite the optimist, thinking Congress will get its head out of its ass. I hope you're right.


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