• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal

ludin said:
The APA requires that to set aside agency actions that are not subject to formal trial-like procedures, the court must conclude that the regulation is "arbitrary and capricious, an abuse of discretion, or otherwise not in accordance with the law.

that is simple. the law is that the president can establish or undo past memo's.
they don't need a reason why the constitution give them that authority.

obama issued an executive memo which trump has the constitutional right to change the courts if they are following
the law so far have been wrong.

which is why i see the court undoing this unless roberts pulls another mickey like he has in the past and make up stuff that doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

The law is definitely not that simple. The APA does require that removing a rule or policy be done for reasons that are not arbitrary and capricious. There is no Constitutional right to agency action.
 
Anagram said:
The law is definitely not that simple. The APA does require that removing a rule or policy be done for reasons that are not arbitrary and capricious. There is no Constitutional right to agency action.
Click to expand...

it isn't an agency action it is an executive memo. i even posted it.
obama issued an executive memo.

trump can rescind the memo.
he doesn't need a reason why.

without the memo any policy is therefore null and void since the power of the policy came from the memo.
 
ludin said:
it isn't an agency action it is an executive memo. i even posted it.
obama issued an executive memo.

trump can rescind the memo.
he doesn't need a reason why.

without the memo any policy is therefore null and void since the power of the policy came from the memo.
Click to expand...

It was by Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano through this memo. https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s1-exercising-prosecutorial-discretion-individuals-who-came-to-us-as-children.pdf

It was rescinded through Acting Secretary Elaine Duke's memo. Memorandum on Rescission Of DACA | Homeland Security

I encourage you to read the actual court opinions. The Trump Administration isn't even arguing that this isn't agency action.
 
MovingPictures said:
My prediction is that the conservative majority will side with Trump.

As awful as this is, it is the Presidents right to reverse policies of his predecessor. It's horrible, but I believe Trump can do it.
Click to expand...

Seems he can do anything he wants. Too bad he can't do what the people want.
 
Moon said:
It’s not correct for the President to unilaterally create a law like Obama did with DACA, that responsibility resides with Congress. So ideally SCOTUS will allow Trump to do away with the DACA executive order and Congress will get its collective head out of its ass and pass legislation that deals with it once and for all.
Click to expand...

You are quite the optimist, thinking Congress will get its head out of its ass. I hope you're right.
 
joko104 said:
100% of them should be required to report. Any with any felony convictions - deported. Any who live a welfare career lifestyle - deported. Anyone who refuses to accurately account for their time in the USA - deported. Anyone who was a high school dropout - deported. Anyone who fails to report is deported.

There should be a standard to be met demonstrating the person is a positive to this country. They have NO inherent right to be here. We decide whether to grant that PRIVILEGE - or not.
Click to expand...

There is a standard. Felons don't qualify. Welfare slugs do not qualify. High school dropouts do not qualify. These are high quality young people who have committed no crime. They are de facto Americans, educated in our schools, part of our culture, fluent in our language. They should't be subject to partisan hackery as they have been.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Supreme Court Takes Up DACA Appeal











Should nearly a million young people, brought to the USA as children and educated here, be allowed to stay in the US, or deported to a country they don't know? That's an easy one for most of us to answer. Now, the question is: Will Obama's policy of letting them stay, or will Trump's policy of deporting them pass muster with the SCOTUS? I know what I hope will happen, but will it? What do you think?
Click to expand...

I have an opinion, but even for me it's a tough call. The law is clear. They go. SCOTUS job is to interpret the law. The question is will they actually rule on the law.
 
OrphanSlug said:
It will be interesting to see how this one plays out, just in time for 2020.
Click to expand...

I don't think a SCOTUS ruling on DACA will affect the election one way or the other. It's an old issue. Plus I don't think President Trump would deport before the election.
 
Dittohead not! said:
You are quite the optimist, thinking Congress will get its head out of its ass. I hope you're right.
Click to expand...

I don’t see it happening, unfortunately. The majority of them would rather keep this as a wedge issue rather than address and correct it.
 
jimbo said:
I don't think a SCOTUS ruling on DACA will affect the election one way or the other. It's an old issue. Plus I don't think President Trump would deport before the election.
Click to expand...

Because of the right wing base he appeals to, I suspect he will up his game in deportations and smile doing it.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Because of the right wing base he appeals to, I suspect he will up his game in deportations and smile doing it.
Click to expand...

You're presuming President Trump is as dumb and vindictive as the never Trumpers.

President Trump hates to lose. He'll not cut his nose to spite his face.
 
Mr Person said:
The DACA cases were about whether DHS followed the Administrative Procedure Act when it rescinded the memo that implemented DACA. The APA was passed by congress. It binds executive agencies, requiring them to do various things in specific ways. A president cannot simply order an agency to ignore the APA.

So unless this is some wildly different case, it's not about a "right to reverse policies of his predecessor". It's not about one EO reversing another. It's about legislation that governes executive agency action.
Click to expand...
Obama did not adhere to the requirements of the APA when he enacted DACA. Janet Napolitano explicitly claimed the action was not subject to the requirements of the APA. If enacting it did not require following the APA, stopping it shouldn't, either. If stopping it requires following the APA, enacting it should also, and it should then be invalidated as it was enacted contrary to law.
 
Dittohead not! said:
There is a standard. Felons don't qualify. Welfare slugs do not qualify. High school dropouts do not qualify. These are high quality young people who have committed no crime. They are de facto Americans, educated in our schools, part of our culture, fluent in our language. They should't be subject to partisan hackery as they have been.
Click to expand...
I am not entirely without empathy for their position. Give them some status, but they must first identify their parents. The parents then become permanently ineligible for any immigration benefit, or even a non-immigrant visa to come to the US. They are permanently barred from entry, with no waiver available and only limited humanitarian parole options at a port of entry.
 
Grizzly Adams said:
I am not entirely without empathy for their position. Give them some status, but they must first identify their parents. The parents then become permanently ineligible for any immigration benefit, or even a non-immigrant visa to come to the US. They are permanently barred from entry, with no waiver available and only limited humanitarian parole options at a port of entry.
Click to expand...


Nice. Only people who have no family loyalty at all would qualify.
 
Captain Adverse said:
A sitting President can rescind Executive Orders at any time while still in office, regardless of whether the order was made by the current President or a predecessor. Executive Orders are guidance instructions for the Agencies and Departments under Executive Authority. They can be a general directive or detailed policy instructions. The President has the power to rescind, modify, or add to them.

NOTE: This has nothing to do with Regulations promulgated under the Law which created the Agency. However, if processes to enforce the Executive Order resulted from attempts to follow the E. O., then IMO they become moot when said order is rescinded.

In the case of DACA, it was actually a "policy" pushed by President Obama, and issued by Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano. Any "policy" instigated by a member of the Executive Branch can be modified by the President. Trump simply announced an end to this policy effective 03/05/20, and passed it off to Congress to resolve.
Click to expand...

Perfectly stated. However, there is one member right of center who has proven to be more concerned over public perception than he is coherent law - John Roberts. What he did for Obamacare he may do for DACA. The sophistry and contortions are freely employed by most such judges...and Roberts may once more demonstrate such.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Nice. Only people who have no family loyalty at all would qualify.
Click to expand...
Well I guess they would have a choice to make.

And I am completely fine with that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom