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Yale Study: Twice as Many Undocumented Immigrants as Previously Thought in U.S.

vegas giants said:
And triple your taxes to round up 22 million people.....right? Right now our prison population is about 2 million and that took every cop we have. Nazi Germany could not round up this many people
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We'd save money by not having so many anchor babies on welfare rolls, not to mention how much more income American workers would have if they weren't competing against endless streams of 3rd world labor.

I find it absolutely incredible that leftists support our current immigration policies where American labor is undercut and foreign labor is abused, while the only people who benefit are wealthy capitalists. Absolutely incredible.
 
trixare4kids said:
Twice as Many Undocumented Immigrants as Previously Thought in U.S.[/URL]

I could have told them this. I lived for ten years in a coastal community near the border in San Diego. "No hablo inglés" is common place.
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It may not survive peer review. I'd love to see who funded that.

" In this commentary, we explain that such an estimate for 2000 is implausible, as it suggests that the 2000 Census undercounted the unauthorized immigrant population by at least 42% in the 2000 Census, and it is misaligned with other demographic data. Fazel-Zarandi, Feinstein and Kaplan’s model produces estimates that have a 10 million-person range in 2016, far too wide to be useful for public policy purposes; their estimates are not benchmarked against any external data sources; and their model appears to be driven by assumptions about return migration of unauthorized immigrants during the 1990s."

That's academic yak for saying they're full of crap.

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0204199
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Double the number of ICE field agents (and the courts to handle them) and get busy deporting illegal immigrants.
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Or just use what you have to go after employers.

Low hanging fruit. Easy to find.

$5k per head fine. 10% reward. From home depot parking lot to Hilton hotel.

Problem solved.

Might even turn a "profit".
 
Bullseye said:
Maybe we could just given each illegal ten guns as we deport them.
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Nah. The donor class likes Mexico poor. Cheap labor and scapegoats.

Arm them and they'll correct the income disparity that makes Mexico a ****hole.
 
trixare4kids said:
I already know the answers. We need to reinforce our borders by hiring more border patrol.
Stop the magnet, end chain migration, and implement a federal e-verify and make it near impossible for people to overstay their temporary Visas.

Also we need to keep guns out of the hands of those who ignore our immigration laws.

What do you have to offer?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
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Still don't see much demand from the right to condemn and pursue employers.

What I see lately is just PR and maybe a little anti-competition activity.

While screeching about the cats that come around to get all that milk being set out for them.

I agree on mandatory e-verify. With protections both ways for those using it. If you run them and they come back clean you're safe if it turns put the fooled you. If you are flagged you get to challenge before you lose the job.
 
Nap said:
I was told that you can't be racist against white people.
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So if you are black and hate mexicans and the Mexican hates you because you are balck, who is the ractist and who is getting "reverse racist"ed?
 
What if...? said:
So if you are black and hate mexicans and the Mexican hates you because you are balck, who is the ractist and who is getting "reverse racist"ed?
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Mexican is a nationality, if you are an American and you hate a person from Mexico it would probably mean you are an extreme nationalist.
 
What if...? said:
Still don't see much demand from the right to condemn and pursue employers.

What I see lately is just PR and maybe a little anti-competition activity.

While screeching about the cats that come around to get all that milk being set out for them.

I agree on mandatory e-verify. With protections both ways for those using it. If you run them and they come back clean you're safe if it turns put the fooled you. If you are flagged you get to challenge before you lose the job.
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The problem isn't that there isn't an E-Verify system already in place that is connected to a federal database, the problem is that the system is still voluntary.
Until that changes, little changes. There are I believe 9 states that mandate that employers use they state system E-Verify program.

It is also untrue that the right isn't on this....They are.

Both Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) both offered mandatory E-Verify bills in the United States Congress.
Both bills would require all businesses to begin using E-Verify over a specified period of time. Sen. Grassley's bill would also reinstate the No-Match letter program along with other provisions that would help identify and fire illegal aliens who currently hold jobs.

Chairman Smith's bill (H.R. 1772) would phase-in E-Verify over a three-year period with 99% of the employers required to use the system within two years. The bill also increases fines and penalties for employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.

Sen. Grassley's bill (S.202) would phase-in E-Verify over a one-year period and would also require employers to run all current employees through the system.

Three other bills that would mandate the use of E-Verify have also been introduced in the House, including Rep. Phil Gingrey's H.R.478, Rep. DeFazio's H.R.502, and Rep. Grave's H.R.830.

https://www.numbersusa.com/solutions/mandate-e-verify
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Nap said:
Mexican is a nationality, if you are an American and you hate a person from Mexico it would probably mean you are an extreme nationalist.
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You know what I was saying.

I hear about reverse racism. But it implies racism against whites while ignoring racism between other races.

Its just more two wrongs somehow make a right nonsense.
 
You folks hate the elitist East Coast liberal educators, and cling to a study from such a school. But then again, you all did elect an elitist East Coast pampered rich boy. The hypocriscy runs deep with this crowd.
 
trixare4kids said:
The problem isn't that there isn't an E-Verify system already in place that is connected to a federal database, the problem is that the system is still voluntary.
Until that changes, little changes. There are I believe 9 states that mandate that employers use they state system E-Verify program.

It is also untrue that the right isn't on this....They are.

Both Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas) and Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) both offered mandatory E-Verify bills in the United States Congress.
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Nice they're finally getting around to it after 30 years.

We'll see if its just smoke and mirrors.
 
What if...? said:
Still don't see much demand from the right to condemn and pursue employers.
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ICE has raided several employers. Your criticism is misplaced - go after the loonies like the Mayor of Berkeley that warned folks ICE was coming. Or the entire state of California the restricts local LE from assisting in immigration enforcement. The right is pushing eVerify. There are also laws against employers for employing illegals; mostly passed by the right.

What if said:
What I see lately is just PR and maybe a little anti-competition activity.

While screeching about the cats that come around to get all that milk being set out for them.

I agree on mandatory e-verify. With protections both ways for those using it. If you run them and they come back clean you're safe if it turns put the fooled you. If you are flagged you get to challenge before you lose the job.
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I agree.
 
What if...? said:
You know what I was saying.

I hear about reverse racism. But it implies racism against whites while ignoring racism between other races.

Its just more two wrongs somehow make a right nonsense.
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Are you saying that people of Hispanic descent are not white?

I always simply viewed racism as just racism regardless of the races involved.
 
Nap said:
Are you saying that people of Hispanic descent are not white?

I always simply viewed racism as just racism regardless of the races involved.
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According to Trayvon Martin, men of Hispanic descent are also "white crackers" to be assaulted at the slightest perceived offensive movement by "oppressed" blacks.
 
Nap said:
Are you saying that people of Hispanic descent are not white?

I always simply viewed racism as just racism regardless of the races involved.
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A white man overtly race-hates on a black man in the U.S.
The black man laments that he hates whites later.

You don't believe those reflect the same thing, do you?
 
phattonez said:
Build the wall.
Institute a visa exit system.
Increase the number of immigration judges.
Mandatory nationwide E-Verify.

We hear all the time from these people about the rule of law. Well then, let's get busy enforcing the law.
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Hear, hear.

I may not agree with you often, but on this I most definitely do. I would add to prosecute employers that do not use e-verify and get caught with illegal liens, or do use e-verify and still hire illegals.

I would also add that along with your visa exit program, that we expand the visa slots for agricultural, construction, and other basic labor force workers that are currently being filled by illegal aliens and that US citizens tend to not want to do, so as not to harm the economy so much - however, we have to have them here on a legal visa system that tracks exits and renewals, as well as prosecutes and deports (with a "no-reentry list" for those that are deported) those that overstay and/or fail to renew and stay.
 
What if...? said:
Or just use what you have to go after employers.

Low hanging fruit. Easy to find.

$5k per head fine. 10% reward. From home depot parking lot to Hilton hotel.

Problem solved.

Might even turn a "profit".
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Who, exactly would you fine for illegal immigrants seeking work in a parking lot? Perhaps a sting would be more profitable - have federal UC agents pose as workers seeking home improvement or lawn maintenance work and arrest and fine anyone that did not do a proper BGC to ensure that they were not hiring illegal immigrants.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Hear, hear.

I may not agree with you often, but on this I most definitely do. I would add to prosecute employers that do not use e-verify and get caught with illegal liens, or do use e-verify and still hire illegals.

I would also add that along with your visa exit program, that we expand the visa slots for agricultural, construction, and other basic labor force workers that are currently being filled by illegal aliens and that US citizens tend to not want to do, so as not to harm the economy so much - however, we have to have them here on a legal visa system that tracks exits and renewals, as well as prosecutes and deports (with a "no-reentry list" for those that are deported) those that overstay and/or fail to renew and stay.
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What if we instead see what happens if they're forced to hire Americans? Construction wages have been stagnant since the 70s. They need to go way up.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
What if we instead see what happens if they're forced to hire Americans? Construction wages have been stagnant since the 70s. They need to go way up.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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That's a nice thought and I wish that were possible, however, farmers in the US cannot compete in a truly global economic market if they have to pay US typical wages. The construction industry is a bit different in that they are more of a regional market rather than a global market, but the cost increases would require government tax increases or toll roads/bridges to cover the increase in horizontal construction costs and the vertical construction market is just now starting to get stable after the collapse of 2008. Any major economic shift such as this could put the vertical construction market on its ear again as investors and building starts draw back as they did before.

There has always been and always will be a need for low skill workers to perform manual labor jobs at low cost wages to feed the over all economy, and supplement the labor market where the indigenous labor market refuses to perform.

This country has gone through numerous variations on this truth, with Africans, Irish, Chinese, and now Hispanic labor being the go to source for hard working quality producing low wage laborers.

Like it or not (and many on the left do not), it's a fact of economic life, and it's not exclusive to the US - it's a first world fact of labor requirements.
 
Not to sound flippant, but just how do you accurately and adequately measure something that is "undocumented"?
 
Beaudreaux said:
That's a nice thought and I wish that were possible, however, farmers in the US cannot compete in a truly global economic market if they have to pay US typical wages. The construction industry is a bit different in that they are more of a regional market rather than a global market, but the cost increases would require government tax increases or toll roads/bridges to cover the increase in horizontal construction costs and the vertical construction market is just now starting to get stable after the collapse of 2008. Any major economic shift such as this could put the vertical construction market on its ear again as investors and building starts draw back as they did before.

There has always been and always will be a need for low skill workers to perform manual labor jobs at low cost wages to feed the over all economy, and supplement the labor market where the indigenous labor market refuses to perform.

This country has gone through numerous variations on this truth, with Africans, Irish, Chinese, and now Hispanic labor being the go to source for hard working quality producing low wage laborers.

Like it or not (and many on the left do not), it's a fact of economic life, and it's not exclusive to the US - it's a first world fact of labor requirements.
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We have the lowest male labor force participation ever. I don't see how foreign labor is necessary while this is going on, especially given that we're essentially paying our poor not to work. Once the activity rate is near 100%, then I'll be more sympathetic.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
 
phattonez said:
We have the lowest male labor force participation ever. I don't see how foreign labor is necessary while this is going on, especially given that we're essentially paying our poor not to work. Once the activity rate is near 100%, then I'll be more sympathetic.

Sent from my HTC phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.
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It's necessary because those foreign laborers are the only ones that will do that type work. It's really that simple. If we prevent them from being able to work, the work will not get done - or the alternative is strawberries cost $9.00 a piece and new housing triples in price.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Anyone who thinks that 22 is 50% more than 11 has no business reporting numbers.
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If he is a numbers guy and not a speaking guy perhaps all he meant was twice as much... and earlier in his statement he says exactly that... "twice as high". ;)
 
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CanadaJohn said:
Not to sound flippant, but just how do you accurately and adequately measure something that is "undocumented"?
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[video]https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates[/video]
 
Bodhisattva said:
[video]https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates[/video]
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Thanks for that - was an interesting read - I still find the results to be less than reliable, but not skewed in any particular way to fit an agenda. In fact, it seems their initial thoughts were significantly less so their findings being far greater leads credibility to their study. A 13 to 14 million range of possibilities seems reasonable as opposed to relying on the mean of 22 million. In any case, they estimate in the range of 5 to 10 percent of the population in the USA today is composed of undocumented immigrants - amazing.
 
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