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Major multi-state ICE raid

Yeah, I think many of them (across each party) have problems in that area.

The swamp raises its ugly head. Its the need for American voters (and politicians wanting votes) to give all the advantages of being American to every person living in every ****hole country in the world.
 
And yet there are tons of citizens that do those jobs every day. Makes what you say here a load of hogwash.

Agreed. Somehow the veggies got picked before we had an immigration problem. I don't much care whether you want the job or not. Cut off welfare and that problem goes away. Don't want to pick veggies work hard and smart and become the driver.

Businesses who hire illegals and those who harbor them are violating the law and should be dealt with accordingly.
 
And when everybody just goes around?

Do you really want a $100 billion dollar concrete albatross on our southern border?

It is illegal to hire illegals.

E-verify exists.

If you don't use it its because you don't want to, because you like the cheap labor.

Stop putting the food out and the strays will stop coming.

Really basic common sense.

You cant just go around. Thats the whole point. Stopping illegals from getting in in the first place instead of punishing actual citizens for hiring willing workers is really basic common sense.

I dont want a 100bn concrete albatross on the border (nor does it have to be that), but we have no choice but to protect the border. We have enemies, violent criminals and leeches that have to be kept out. No manner of federal laws will do this. It doesnt stop drugs or crime or dependence. The only thing that works is removing those from society who dont have a right to be here.
 
Did you even read the article? They knowingly hired the illegals so they could cheat them and the government.

Only because govt laws are dumb. There is nothing wrong with hiring mexicans who want to work for low wages or wanting to pay less taxes. The illegals should have work visas, and the govt should lower taxes and regulations on business. This is a problem the govt created.
 
We invited the "invaders" with jobs, welfare, and looking the other way for decades. Take those incentives away and we won't need a wall because the "invasion" will be much easier to control.

You cant take those incentives away, so its moot. Our economy is strong, everyone wants to come here. Whether govt makes laws or not, people are still going to work under the table. Because the rent is to damn high. Get rid of govt, block people we dont want here from getting in. Problem solved.
 
Employers do not enforce federal law. But they are required to abide by federal law. With your statement then its perfectly OK for them to pollute rivers and lakes with arsenic, chop down vast tracts of trees without replanting a single tree, or hell, even kill someone. All in the name of running a business.

No, because those things harm others. Employing someone without govt permission doesnt. The people and the states never agreed to allow govt to regulate employment.
 
Yeah they did - read the whole article. They committed fraud. They purposefully cheated on the Social Security numbers so they could hire illegals.

It may be illegal, but is not WRONG. The govt passes all sorts of laws which are stupid, illegal, and wrong. And ignoring them is RIGHT.
 
You cant just go around. Thats the whole point. Stopping illegals from getting in in the first place instead of punishing actual citizens for hiring willing workers is really basic common sense.

I dont want a 100bn concrete albatross on the border (nor does it have to be that), but we have no choice but to protect the border. We have enemies, violent criminals and leeches that have to be kept out. No manner of federal laws will do this. It doesnt stop drugs or crime or dependence. The only thing that works is removing those from society who dont have a right to be here.

Or you could focus on making it a waste of effort for them to do so.

By punishing American lawbreakers that defraud both our citizenry and government.

You don't need a hundred foot electric fence to keep the stray cats out.

Just stop putting food out.

I know, I know, that doesn't make liberals as mad as the wall.

But sometimes you need to be a grownup and do the grownup thing instead of the one that makes the other kids cry.
 
In Accordance with the article, the employers were DEFINITELY in the wrong.

1. They insisted the illegals ONLY cash their paychecks at certain places and they charged them a fee to cash them

2. They withheld "taxes" from their checks, but never gave it to the government.

3. They were using these tactics to gain an advantage over their competition who were doing things legally.

If you say the employers were not doing anything wrong, you either did not read the whole article or think these practices are OK.
I am going to believe you just did not read the whole article.
I sometimes don't either.
No harm, no foul.

...and yes, you are correct, the federal government did create this problem.

now they are in the process of correcting it.

I didnt read the article,nor was that the point of the op, who only mentioned hiring illegals and immigration policy. So thats what I responded to. Hiring people without checking their citizenship is not wrong.
 
Or you could focus on making it a waste of effort for them to do so.

By punishing American lawbreakers that defraud both our citizenry and government.

You don't need a hundred foot electric fence to keep the stray cats out.

Just stop putting food out.

I know, I know, that doesn't make liberals as mad as the wall.

But sometimes you need to be a grownup and do the grownup thing instead of the one that makes the other kids cry.

Smacking the cat doesnt do anything. No more than punishing people for drugs. I agree, lets be grownups and protect our country instead of punishing our own citizens for incompetent govt.

Walls work, laws dont.
 
Smacking the cat doesnt do anything. No more than punishing people for drugs. I agree, lets be grownups and protect our country instead of punishing our own citizens for incompetent govt.

Walls work, laws dont.

The problem with the wall is if you don't do anything about the demand, they will still have an incentive to come here. People smuggling is big business for the cartels and coyotes in Mexico, and those are groups who have the funding to circumvent the wall.
 
It may be illegal, but is not WRONG. The govt passes all sorts of laws which are stupid, illegal, and wrong. And ignoring them is RIGHT.

Not only is using fake SS numbers a crime -- it's absolutely WRONG. Plus, the employers were taking huge cuts of the illegal's pay - as a fee for cashing their checks.

The ones who got busted -- deserved it.
 
No, because those things harm others. Employing someone without govt permission doesnt. The people and the states never agreed to allow govt to regulate employment.

If hiring them does no harm then what's the problem in the first place?

I thought they were taking our jobs?
 
Smacking the cat doesnt do anything. No more than punishing people for drugs. I agree, lets be grownups and protect our country instead of punishing our own citizens for incompetent govt.

Walls work, laws dont.

Read for comprehension.

I said NOTHING about smacking the cat.

I was talking about smacking the ones FEEDING the cat.

And I want the problem dealt with NOW, not in a decade when the wall would be finished.
 
And a roof, and a foundation. Stand alone walls can be dug under, flew over, climbed over and gone around. Also the majority of people in the US illegally did come to the US legally but have overstayed their Visa's and have refused to go home.

Of course, but just because a wall can be breached by extraordinary measures doesn’t mean it’s ineffective. I’d also be surprised if illegal border crossing didn’t account for the majority of illegal immigration but my own perspective may be tainted by what I see here.
 
The problem with the wall is if you don't do anything about the demand, they will still have an incentive to come here. People smuggling is big business for the cartels and coyotes in Mexico, and those are groups who have the funding to circumvent the wall.

There will always be an incentive. You can not stop people by making laws against things. They have to want to obey them. And lots of americans citizens will never go on the books, no matter what laws are made. And no govt can create such a enforcement force to make them. Except the military, who CAN enforce the border. Stopping people with a wall is much easier than stopping people paying someone under the table.
 
Read for comprehension.

I said NOTHING about smacking the cat.

I was talking about smacking the ones FEEDING the cat.

And I want the problem dealt with NOW, not in a decade when the wall would be finished.

You want to wait another decade and then maybe build a wall, when it could have been done 30 years ago. Lets compromise. Start building the wall, and Ill let you do police raids on employers till its done.
 
If hiring them does no harm then what's the problem in the first place?

I thought they were taking our jobs?

I never said that. I have no problem with mexicans working farms for low wages and no benefits, and not even paying taxes. Then they go home. We have visas just for this.
 
You could make it less onerous by making a us passport acceptable in lieu of e-verify.

As a union stagehands I have multiple employers every year.

My passport alone is acceptable proof of citizenship.

I can't bring myself to hate people crossing an imaginary line for a better life.

But I can accept the need to address the problem.

Going after those profiting from illegal labor seems the best approach.

THEY are the "attractive nuisance" in this equation

No thanks. Passports can be forged. E-verify can't.
 
No, because those things harm others. Employing someone without govt permission doesnt. The people and the states never agreed to allow govt to regulate employment.

Ever heard of the commerce clause? It's what allows them to regulate interstate commerce, any business that ships goods across state lines can be regulated. Also the Constitution gives the federal government the exclusive power to regulate immigration and all that applies. So yes, they absolutely can tell any business to not hire illegal aliens, which is an immigration issue.
 
I didnt read the article,nor was that the point of the op, who only mentioned hiring illegals and immigration policy. So thats what I responded to. Hiring people without checking their citizenship is not wrong.

Hiring people without checking their citizenship is not only wrong, it is illegal.
That is unless you pay them under the table or as a contractor.
If you hire them as a formal employee, they can not be an illegal alien. If proven they are, then the employer can be in trouble as hiring illegal aliens is against the law.
 
Sorry, but you know that it being “ineffective” or “expensive” are not the real reasons you oppose the wall. I’ve lived on the border long to see the difference even just a tall fence can make. I don’t even particularly like the fence but yes, of course, a large physical barrier is more effective than not.

Yes, those are part of the reasons. When I see the data on how many people are illegal in this country because of extended visa stays, when I see the sophisticated tunnels cartels build to transport their drugs, and when I see what desperate people are capable of doing to live in America, it's just logic and common sense that a wall isn't the answer to our problems. It's not going to be more effective than not, in my opinion.

I agree with you both here. Yes, I think a "good" wall is very helpful (opinions vary about what is "good"; I'm partial to the 30-ft beams that are near impossible to scale, but offer unlimited views of the other side). I lived in SoCal for decades, and remember how a sturdy wall at the San Diego border cut illegal immigration in that area by 95% (and eliminated flashing fwy sides on the 405 South screaming "Watch for pedestrians on Freeway").

But people who are starving, or living in a country besieged by war and violence, where 10 yr old kids are stolen to be brainwashed into cartel drug runners and assassins, would be desperate enough to brave any hardship to get their families to safety. A wall isn't a total answer; it's just a piece of a much larger puzzle.

Employers who knowingly hire illegals and exploit them should be the first ones in handcuffs. It takes a few clicks on a computer to verify legal status, but legal immigrants cannot be bullied and blackmailed into working 18 hr days for $2/bucks an hour. What these employers do to desperate people is dispicable; and it is criminal. They should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Immigrants who go through the system legally, then miss their court dates, let their visas expire or otherwise violate immigration laws are, quite frankly, fair game for ICE detainment and deportation. It's sad, even heart wrenching, but the US, like every other country on the planet, has the absolute right to secure its own borders and write its own immigration laws.

However, times like these, when our own government officials/agencies are violating our own immigration laws for political expedience, shakes my faith in our government to the core. How can we self-righteously blame immigrants who break our laws if our own government breaks them as well?

Scary times we're living in.
 
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Feds Conduct Massive Worksite Raid In Two States, Arrest Business Owners For Employing Illegal Aliens | The Daily Caller

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I am glad they are finally arresting the employers as well who are knowingly hiring illegal workers and exploiting them. This is a terrible situation for the families but they are breaking the law and have to understand the consequences which is even more of a reason we really need some kind of logical immigration reform. That's why we need more representatives who are moderate and sensible on immigration.

Aka, they raised farmers and Jose who was picking tomatoes...I'm more concerned about that guy in New Mexico who was teaching kids to commit school shootings
 
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