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Major multi-state ICE raid

X Factor said:
Sorry, but you know that it being “ineffective” or “expensive” are not the real reasons you oppose the wall. I’ve lived on the border long to see the difference even just a tall fence can make. I don’t even particularly like the fence but yes, of course, a large physical barrier is more effective than not.
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Yes, those are part of the reasons. When I see the data on how many people are illegal in this country because of extended visa stays, when I see the sophisticated tunnels cartels build to transport their drugs, and when I see what desperate people are capable of doing to live in America, it's just logic and common sense that a wall isn't the answer to our problems. It's not going to be more effective than not, in my opinion.
 
PoS said:
Let's face it- the reason illegals get hired for such things is because nobody wants that kind of job. I wonder if people will still be anti-immigration when the price of veggies goes up.
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A similar argument was made for slavery. Not knowing about the agricultural inventions that would later come about due to our necessity, we did away with the immoral system anyways.

That said, Your Vegetables Are Going To Be Picked By Robots Sooner Than You Think
 
americanwoman said:
Yes, those are part of the reasons. When I see the data on how many people are illegal in this country because of extended visa stays, when I see the sophisticated tunnels cartels build to transport their drugs, and when I see what desperate people are capable of doing to live in America, it's just logic and common sense that a wall isn't the answer to our problems. It's not going to be more effective than not, in my opinion.
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Nah, you's a liyah! A liyah!
 
PoS said:
Let's face it- the reason illegals get hired for such things is because nobody wants that kind of job. I wonder if people will still be anti-immigration when the price of veggies goes up.
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That (bolded above) assertion is nonsense. Nobody wants to work a much harder job for the nearly the same wages as an easier job often coupled with "safety net" benefits available (only?) to US citizens. Why work as a construction laborer or ranch hand when you can get a "McJob" that pays nearly as much and with "safety net" assistance perhaps more?
 
Kal'Stang said:
I don't agree with a wall. There are far more effective means than building a wall along one border. Such as requiring e-verify for every hire/renter/buyer of any vehicle or house, or bank account being opened.
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I don’t particularly want the wall either but it would be effective. It’s like having bars on your windows and doors. They’re not fool proof, but they do deter crimes of opportunity.
 
X Factor said:
I don’t particularly want the wall either but it would be effective. It’s like having bars on your windows and doors. They’re not fool proof, but they do deter crimes of opportunity.
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Difference between having bars on your windows and doors is that those are the only points of entry into a building. The US has FAR more points of entrance, even if you were to build a wall on the southern border.
 
americanwoman said:
Yes, those are part of the reasons. When I see the data on how many people are illegal in this country because of extended visa stays, when I see the sophisticated tunnels cartels build to transport their drugs, and when I see what desperate people are capable of doing to live in America, it's just logic and common sense that a wall isn't the answer to our problems. It's not going to be more effective than not, in my opinion.
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But nobody is arguing, or I’m not at least, that a wall is the only answer. Like put up the wall and Border Patrol and ICE can disband and go home. :lol: It would be a useful tool to aid those whose job it is to prevent illegal crossings. YMMV at how much you actually want to aid those particular people.
 
americanwoman said:
We invited the "invaders" with jobs, welfare, and looking the other way for decades. Take those incentives away and we won't need a wall because the "invasion" will be much easier to control.
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Welfare, in the form of many "safety net" program benefits, can (and does) make a part-time "McJob" pay nearly as much net as working these full-time, harder jobs do. The reason that we have (need?) a constant supply of new immigrants (legal or not) is that the next generation of immigrants (US citizens by birth) have the option of getting "safety net" benefits. It is no secret that many 'working poor' get subsidized by the taxpayers and thus meet their 'work requirement' by accepting very low wage/benefit job offers.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Difference between having bars on your windows and doors is that those are the only points of entry into a building. The US has FAR more points of entrance, even if you were to build a wall on the southern border.
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Yes, there are fewer points of entry into my house because my house has walls.
 
PoS said:
Let's face it- the reason illegals get hired for such things is because nobody wants that kind of job. I wonder if people will still be anti-immigration when the price of veggies goes up.
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Maybe if employers are having a hard time filling their needs, they'll have to raise the wage they offer? Isn't that good? Eh?
 
PoS said:
Let's face it- the reason illegals get hired for such things is because nobody wants that kind of job. I wonder if people will still be anti-immigration when the price of veggies goes up.
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It's anti-illegal immigration... get that right.

And we have plenty of people who are capable and willing.

If it takes rising of wages and prices of veges, then so be it. Haven't people been complaining how people are paid too low? This is exactly how you change that.
 
X Factor said:
Yes, there are fewer points of entry into my house because my house has walls.
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And a roof, and a foundation. Stand alone walls can be dug under, flew over, climbed over and gone around. Also the majority of people in the US illegally did come to the US legally but have overstayed their Visa's and have refused to go home.
 
HowardBThiname said:
The businesses are guilty of fraud -- they should be arrested -- and shut down.
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Howard, I wouldn't want to come to your town if you were sheriff.:2wave:
 
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PoS said:
Let's face it- the reason illegals get hired for such things is because nobody wants that kind of job. I wonder if people will still be anti-immigration when the price of veggies goes up.
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I actually hope they "solve" the problem so they'll be pissed when wages don't go up as a result.

Because they won't.

They'll have to pay ag workers more and food prices will go up and it'll all be a wash.

And the scapegoats will be gone...
 
americanwoman said:
Feds Conduct Massive Worksite Raid In Two States, Arrest Business Owners For Employing Illegal Aliens | The Daily Caller

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I am glad they are finally arresting the employers as well who are knowingly hiring illegal workers and exploiting them. This is a terrible situation for the families but they are breaking the law and have to understand the consequences which is even more of a reason we really need some kind of logical immigration reform. That's why we need more representatives who are moderate and sensible on immigration.
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I totally agree. If the US had gone after employers of illegals from the get-go, we would not have an illegal immigration problem. It's about time.
 
jonny5 said:
How is protecting your border from invaders not moderate? Its literally in the constitution as a duty of the federal govt. And its certainly affordable at less than 100bn. We collect over 3 trillion in taxes.
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And when everybody just goes around?

Do you really want a $100 billion dollar concrete albatross on our southern border?

It is illegal to hire illegals.

E-verify exists.

If you don't use it its because you don't want to, because you like the cheap labor.

Stop putting the food out and the strays will stop coming.

Really basic common sense.
 
americanwoman said:
Feds Conduct Massive Worksite Raid In Two States, Arrest Business Owners For Employing Illegal Aliens | The Daily Caller

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I am glad they are finally arresting the employers as well who are knowingly hiring illegal workers and exploiting them. This is a terrible situation for the families but they are breaking the law and have to understand the consequences which is even more of a reason we really need some kind of logical immigration reform. That's why we need more representatives who are moderate and sensible on immigration.
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Like you, I'm pleased they are finally starting to hit the employers of illegals.
 
Kal'Stang said:
I don't agree with a wall. There are far more effective means than building a wall along one border. Such as requiring e-verify for every hire/renter/buyer of any vehicle or house, or bank account being opened.
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You could make it less onerous by making a us passport acceptable in lieu of e-verify.

As a union stagehands I have multiple employers every year.

My passport alone is acceptable proof of citizenship.

I can't bring myself to hate people crossing an imaginary line for a better life.

But I can accept the need to address the problem.

Going after those profiting from illegal labor seems the best approach.

THEY are the "attractive nuisance" in this equation
 
It's time to tell, for example, Paul Ryan: 'Whazup!'
 
X Factor said:
Sorry, but you know that it being “ineffective” or “expensive” are not the real reasons you oppose the wall. I’ve lived on the border long to see the difference even just a tall fence can make. I don’t even particularly like the fence but yes, of course, a large physical barrier is more effective than not.
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You can close all your doors and windows to keep the flies out and sit in the heat.

Or you could just put all the food away and be comfrotable.

I generally prefer the cheaper, easier and FASTER solution.

Building a wall will take YEARS.

Going after employers is happening NOW.

Continue to aggressively pursue this course and the problem will be largely solved before construction CAN be completed.

This is a major flaw in wall reasoning.

Everything is dismissed EXCEPT the wall. Supporters agree that enforcement is important but want the wall FIRST.

Even though it is the most expensive "solution" that will take the longest time to implement.

Are you sure that the Lobbies that use illegal labor aren't just putting the wall idea up as a delaying tactic so they can make a few more billions before the jig is up?
 
MrMike said:
Yeah, I think many of them (across each party) have problems in that area.
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The swamp raises its ugly head. Its the need for American voters to give all the advantages of being American to every person living in every ****hole country in the world.
 
X Factor said:
I don’t particularly want the wall either but it would be effective. It’s like having bars on your windows and doors. They’re not fool proof, but they do deter crimes of opportunity.
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On your one walled house?

Seems like a lot of money to spend and a long time before it works.

Include heavy fines with enforcement and it might even be cheap.

And they're doing it NOW, right now.

Not years from now.
 
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