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*Trump administration tells ACLU to find deported parents

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btthegreat

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The article title is actually misleading here. The justice dept was telling a federal judge something on the topic in court filings to the court, not talking to the ACLU. I quote the first few paragraphs here.
"The Trump administration on Thursday informed a federal judge that it isn't responsible for locating deported parents separated forcibly from their children at the southern border.

DOJ said in a court filing that the American Civil Liberties Union, which represents plaintiffs in a class-action lawsuit over family separations, should instead take the lead in reunifying deported parents with their children.

“Plaintiffs’ counsel should use their considerable resources and their network of law firms, NGOs, volunteers, and others, together with the information that defendants have provided (or will soon provide), to establish contact with possible class members in foreign countries,” DOJ said."

This may be the most astonishing legal argument I have heard from this administration. The ACLU argued consistently against separating these kids. The ACLU did not separate these kids. The ACLU did not move these kids without proper tracking and identification systems in place. The ACLU argued against deporting parents who's kids were separated. The ACLU did not deport these parents without their kids.

It was the administration that argued in favor of separating these kids. It was the administration that separated these kids. It was the administration that moved these kids without a proper tracking and identification system in place. It was the administration that argued in favor of deporting these parents without their kids. It was the administration that deported these parents without their kids

Now who's job is it to do the work to solve and eat the costs of this problem? Who exactly is under a federal court order, here clean this mess up?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/02/deported-parents-children-trump-administration-aclu-721151

Putting aside the moral questions of the policy, there are smart ways to do things and stupid ways to do things -like laundry! It does not take a genius to figure out not take all the family socks to be washed in the dirty laundry, drive them to different laundry matts all over the city, then throw them in different washers and dryers because someone may have to drive to all those laundry matts a month later, and hope to find all those socks in all those washer and dryers and match the blue ones into pairs and the black and brown ones into pairs and the yellow and white ones together. The ACLU did not separate the socks like that. The ACLU is not obliged to track and match them up.

This is especially stupid considering how many quarters it takes, to take full custody and care for hundreds of children, for God knows how long, while our government to tries find the matches that they sent far away!
 
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btthegreat said:
The article title is actually misleading here. The justice dept was telling a federal judge something on the topic in court filings to the court, not talking to the ACLU. I quote the first few paragraphs here.
"The Trump administration on Thursday informed a federal judge that it isn't responsible for locating deported parents separated forcibly from their children at the southern border.

DOJ said in a court filing that the American Civil Liberties Union, which represents plaintiffs in a class-action lawsuit over family separations, should instead take the lead in reunifying deported parents with their children.

“Plaintiffs’ counsel should use their considerable resources and their network of law firms, NGOs, volunteers, and others, together with the information that defendants have provided (or will soon provide), to establish contact with possible class members in foreign countries,” DOJ said."

This may be the most astonishing legal argument I have heard from this administration. The ACLU argued consistently against separating these kids. The ACLU did not separate these kids. The ACLU did not move these kids without proper tracking and identification systems in place. The ACLU argued against deporting parents who's kids were separated. The ACLU did not deport these parents without their kids.

It was the administration that argued in favor of separating these kids. It was the administration that separated these kids. It was the administration that moved these kids without a proper tracking and identification system in place. It was the administration that argued in favor of deporting these parents without their kids. It was the administration that deported these parents without their kids

Now who's job is it to do the work to solve and eat the costs of this problem? Who exactly is under a federal court order, here clean this mess up?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/02/deported-parents-children-trump-administration-aclu-721151
Click to expand...

Well this wouldn't have been a problem if the Administration had just deported them all immediately back across the border and made sure they couldn't simply try to cross back again illegally.

Oh wait! There's nothing like a major barrier to prevent them from coming back anyway...no border wall. And Mexico won't let them stay, they just force them back across to us.

Oh wait! There is also that pesky requirement to grant hearings to anyone who claims to be seeking asylum...okay hold them all in detention centers until they can have their hearing.

Oh wait! There was that pesky 9th Circuit ruling on that other pesky Obama era court agreement holding that kids could not be detained with their parents...and no effort to set up systems to handle either problem with such illegals under the Obama Administration.

That led to Obama's "catch and release" into the USA policy, and encouraged more and more "asylum seekers" to pour through Mexico into the USA.

Many with the full help and support of Mexico, who for some odd reason won't let them seek asylum there, but are happy to escort them right up to OUR borders and wave them across.

Yep, it's all the Trump Administration's fault for trying to enforce the law, being required to either separate families or let them in, and thus keep encouraging more and more "asylum seekers" to overburden Immigration courts.

Hell, let's just open the borders and give up our nation and our culture because it is really really evil anyway...just see how we are abusing those poor families and children?!?! :roll: (HEAVY sarcasm...)

Yeah, it's all Trump's fault. :coffeepap:
 
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This administration will be properly reviled for decades, perhaps centuries, to come.

They will be held up in remembrance of how easy it is to revert from enlightenment and sink to nearly unimaginable lows. When schoolchildren are taught about this administration it will be with the mantras "never forget" and "never again".
 
Captain Adverse said:
Well this wouldn't have been a problem if the Administration had just deported them all immediately back across the border and made sure they couldn't simply try to cross back again illegally.

Oh wait! There's nothing like a major barrier to prevent them from coming back anyway...no border wall. And Mexico won't let them stay, they just force them back across to us.

Oh wait! There is also that pesky requirement to grant hearings to anyone who claims to be seeking asylum...okay hold them all in detention centers until they can have their hearing.

Oh wait! There was that pesky 9th Circuit ruling on that other pesky Obama era court agreement holding that kids could not be detained with their parents...and no effort to set up systems to handle either problem with such illegals under the Obama Administration.

That led to Obama's "catch and release" into the USA policy, and encouraged more and more "asylum seekers" to pour through Mexico into the USA.

Many with the full help and support of Mexico, who for some odd reason won't let them seek asylum there, but are happy to escort them right up to OUR borders and wave them across.

Yep, it's all the Trump Administration's fault for trying to enforce the law, being required to either separate families or let them in, and thus keep encouraging more and more "asylum seekers" to overburden Immigration courts.

Hell, let's just open the borders and give up our nation and our culture because it is really really evil anyway...just see how we are abusing those poor families and children?!?! :roll: (HEAVY sarcasm...)

Yeah, it's all Trump's fault. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...
Nothing in any of the above required that Trump announce a 'zero tolerance' policy it did not have the resources, shelter or legal capacities to enforce or execute. Nothing in the above required that they incarcerate every single human being they decided might be ineligible rather than use less draconian or practical alternatives. Nothing in the above required that they literally beg for this result by not tracking who they took from who, or attempting to shelter these kids closer to their parents. Nothing in the above required that they use these separations to coerce parents to choose deportation, deny them legal representation and any access to their children or continuity of contact.


None of this was necessary and it served no purpose except to inflate Trump's ego.
 
btthegreat said:
The article title is actually misleading here. The justice dept was telling a federal judge something on the topic in court filings to the court, not talking to the ACLU. I quote the first few paragraphs here.
"The Trump administration on Thursday informed a federal judge that it isn't responsible for locating deported parents separated forcibly from their children at the southern border.

DOJ said in a court filing that the American Civil Liberties Union, which represents plaintiffs in a class-action lawsuit over family separations, should instead take the lead in reunifying deported parents with their children.

“Plaintiffs’ counsel should use their considerable resources and their network of law firms, NGOs, volunteers, and others, together with the information that defendants have provided (or will soon provide), to establish contact with possible class members in foreign countries,” DOJ said."

This may be the most astonishing legal argument I have heard from this administration. The ACLU argued consistently against separating these kids. The ACLU did not separate these kids. The ACLU did not move these kids without proper tracking and identification systems in place. The ACLU argued against deporting parents who's kids were separated. The ACLU did not deport these parents without their kids.

It was the administration that argued in favor of separating these kids. It was the administration that separated these kids. It was the administration that moved these kids without a proper tracking and identification system in place. It was the administration that argued in favor of deporting these parents without their kids. It was the administration that deported these parents without their kids

Now who's job is it to do the work to solve and eat the costs of this problem? Who exactly is under a federal court order, here clean this mess up?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/02/deported-parents-children-trump-administration-aclu-721151

Putting aside the moral questions of the policy, there are smart ways to do things and stupid ways to do things -like laundry! It does not take a genius to figure out not take all the family socks to be washed in the dirty laundry, drive them to different laundry matts all over the city, then throw them in different washers and dryers because someone may have to drive to all those laundry matts a month later, and hope to find all those socks in all those washer and dryers and match the blue ones into pairs and the black and brown ones into pairs and the yellow and white ones together. The ACLU did not separate the socks like that. The ACLU is not obliged to track and match them up.

This is especially stupid considering how many quarters it takes, to take full custody and care for hundreds of children, for God knows how long, while our government to tries find the matches that they sent far away!
Click to expand...

As Captain Adverse pointed out, the system was designed and set up to encourage allowing illegal aliens and asylum seekers to legally move into our country without any controls. In effect, it was either let them in or suffer consequences.

Obama chose to avoid the consequences and we ended up with a flood of people coming here with no way to keep track of the bunch. In effect, Obama disregarded and failed to enforce the law.

Now...along comes Trump who is determined to enforce the law. Since the system is working against him, he is between a rock and a hard place...damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

The best thing to do is:

1. Build the wall to prevent illegal aliens from getting across the border, prevent them from getting caught by Border Control agents and keep them from becoming affected by this crappy system.

2. Change the asylum procedures to prevent asylum seekers the ability to enter the US until their applications have been approved.

Until then, I agree with the DOJ...the people who want to cry (the ACLU) should, instead, do something positive to help the people they care about. Be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.
 
Mycroft said:
As Captain Adverse pointed out, the system was designed and set up to encourage allowing illegal aliens and asylum seekers to legally move into our country without any controls. In effect, it was either let them in or suffer consequences.

Obama chose to avoid the consequences and we ended up with a flood of people coming here with no way to keep track of the bunch. In effect, Obama disregarded and failed to enforce the law.

Now...along comes Trump who is determined to enforce the law. Since the system is working against him, he is between a rock and a hard place...damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

The best thing to do is:

1. Build the wall to prevent illegal aliens from getting across the border, prevent them from getting caught by Border Control agents and keep them from becoming affected by this crappy system.

2. Change the asylum procedures to prevent asylum seekers the ability to enter the US until their applications have been approved.

Until then, I agree with the DOJ...the people who want to cry (the ACLU) should, instead, do something positive to help the people they care about. Be part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.
Click to expand...
The ACLU were part of the solution every time they filed legal briefs to stop this absurd and draconian application/execution of immigration law. Do the words ' federal court order' tell you anything about who has apparently not been obeying federal law?

The ACLU did not separate these children en masse from their parents without any process or adequate procedures by which they could be identified and returned. They are not responsible for fixing this mess.
 
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btthegreat said:
The ACLU were part of the solution every time they filed legal briefs to stop this absurd and draconian application/execution of immigration law. Do the words ' federal court order' tell you anything about who has apparently not been obeying federal law?
Click to expand...

The various court orders are part of the untenable situation. They don't imply the law was not being obeyed. They made a judgment on how people should be treated. The problem is...the law requires people to be treated in a manner contrary to the judge's rulings.

That's the rock and a hard place I spoke of.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Well this wouldn't have been a problem if the Administration had just deported them all immediately back across the border and made sure they couldn't simply try to cross back again illegally.

Oh wait! There's nothing like a major barrier to prevent them from coming back anyway...no border wall. And Mexico won't let them stay, they just force them back across to us.

Oh wait! There is also that pesky requirement to grant hearings to anyone who claims to be seeking asylum...okay hold them all in detention centers until they can have their hearing.

Oh wait! There was that pesky 9th Circuit ruling on that other pesky Obama era court agreement holding that kids could not be detained with their parents...and no effort to set up systems to handle either problem with such illegals under the Obama Administration.

That led to Obama's "catch and release" into the USA policy, and encouraged more and more "asylum seekers" to pour through Mexico into the USA.

Many with the full help and support of Mexico, who for some odd reason won't let them seek asylum there, but are happy to escort them right up to OUR borders and wave them across.

Yep, it's all the Trump Administration's fault for trying to enforce the law, being required to either separate families or let them in, and thus keep encouraging more and more "asylum seekers" to overburden Immigration courts.

Hell, let's just open the borders and give up our nation and our culture because it is really really evil anyway...just see how we are abusing those poor families and children?!?! :roll: (HEAVY sarcasm...)

Yeah, it's all Trump's fault. :coffeepap:
Click to expand...

One would be hard pressed to find a system designed more against itself, then for.
 
Mycroft said:
The various court orders are part of the untenable situation. They don't imply the law was not being obeyed. They made a judgment on how people should be treated. The problem is...the law requires people to be treated in a manner contrary to the judge's rulings.

That's the rock and a hard place I spoke of.
Click to expand...
You don't suppose those judges held that there were constitutional violations by this administration that were expressed in the written order, do you, and that there is a legal finding of fault underpinning the decision behind the order that they wrote That normally represents an assertion that constitutional law was not obeyed. The court orders do more than leave an implication that the law was not obeyed. They spell out which section of the constitution and how it was broken !
 
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btthegreat said:
You don't suppose those judges held that there were constitutional violations by this administration that were expressed in the written order, do you, and that there is a legal finding of fault underpinning the decision behind the order that they wrote That normally represents an assertion that constitutional law was not obeyed. The court orders do more than leave an implication that the law was not obeyed. They spell out which section of the constitution and how it was broken !
Click to expand...

If you think this is the case, show me in the court ruling.
 
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