• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Plan on Immigration Reform

ClaraD

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
48,667
Reaction score
28,643
Location
Somewhere in the Low Country
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Immigration reform by Clara D (no link needed, this is mine.)
Immigration reform, for it to work needs many elements and cooperation from both sides. It means sacrifices from both sides. That means no winners and no losers, except in the end everyone actually wins.

I am on board with E Verify. I am also on board with prosecuting employers for hiring people not properly authorized to live in the US. However, for me to be completely on board, there needs to be immigration reform.

What I will never be on board with is spending 25 to 30 billion on a wall. Not many of you have lived on the border. I was born there. You literally could throw rocks at the river that divided Mexico and the US from my back yard. When I was a child it was not uncommon for immigrants to travel every year in March and go back home in December. Seasonal immigrants if you want to call them that. No one really cared or gave them a second look. They were a crucial part of the agricultural industry and other jobs needed, ones that not enough citizens filled. In that aspect, little has changed.
What I would do with that money is programs for learning English, a veterans program for reintegration into society and education. Walls don’t make friends and spend lots of money we don’t have. Many a economic conservative will agree.
First, the Dreamers…yes, they should stay. If they have been here their entire lives…they belong here, not in another country. Fix it, we broke it…give them residency if they can prove they graduated and are paying taxes.
Second, spouses of US citizens. Roll back the requirements to those pre 1996, when a person paid a fine for the illegal presence and were given a waiver, allowed to adjust status upon proving a legitimate marriage….yes, they need to prove a work history and need to prove payment of taxes as well as no criminal record. Legitimate marriage to me is one where children exist or more than 5 years of marriage.
Reinstate VAWA…we shouldn’t allow spouses to marry, not legalize their spouse, and then beat the living crap out of them and not give them protection. Too many cases occurred where foreign wives were brought and beaten and threatened with deportation if they called the police. This should not happen in this country, ever.
Allow those illegally in the country to enlist in the military in order to obtain a legal status. If the person is willing to serve, I am willing to give them permanent residency.
If a person has a business and is contributing to this country, has been here more than 3 years, paid taxes, has no criminal record, give them a temporary status, then after 10 years allow them to adjust that status to permanent and after 5 more, citizenship.
Establish a real guest worker program for agricultural and other labor intensive industries. Visas would be good for 9 months and reapplied for after 3 months in their respective countries.
Enlist E-verify, but make it where people are given the opportunity to prove their status and not be fired immediately or denied employment…I am a mismatch…because my identity was stolen while I was out of the country. My identity was used to file taxes for jobs I didn’t perform and with fake W2 forms out of Atlanta, it was an identity theft ring, before some say it was an illegal immigrant, it wasn’t.
Enlist protections for those who are witnesses to crimes in this country. Criminals shouldn’t be allowed a free pass due to the immigration status of the witness or victim.
Require that permanent residents be allowed to renew their permanent residency no more than 2 times before they are required to file for citizenship.
Stop deporting veterans for smoking marijuana….sorry, that is just stupid.
Now some of you deport, deport, deport, have no issues with tearing apart families…but I do have issue with it.

Asylum, establish the ability to apply for asylum from a consulate in a neighboring country. Do not require them to enter the country and then apply. Provide documentation and make agreements with these countries that allow them temporary status while they await the adjudication of their asylum claim.

Fire away…
 
I have a plan too.We don't need a wall.Put up a sign every 100 feet that says trespassers will be shot.End of problem.
 
Immigration reform by Clara D (no link needed, this is mine.)
Immigration reform, for it to work needs many elements and cooperation from both sides. It means sacrifices from both sides. That means no winners and no losers, except in the end everyone actually wins.

I am on board with E Verify. I am also on board with prosecuting employers for hiring people not properly authorized to live in the US. However, for me to be completely on board, there needs to be immigration reform.

What I will never be on board with is spending 25 to 30 billion on a wall. Not many of you have lived on the border. I was born there. You literally could throw rocks at the river that divided Mexico and the US from my back yard. When I was a child it was not uncommon for immigrants to travel every year in March and go back home in December. Seasonal immigrants if you want to call them that. No one really cared or gave them a second look. They were a crucial part of the agricultural industry and other jobs needed, ones that not enough citizens filled. In that aspect, little has changed.
What I would do with that money is programs for learning English, a veterans program for reintegration into society and education. Walls don’t make friends and spend lots of money we don’t have. Many a economic conservative will agree.
First, the Dreamers…yes, they should stay. If they have been here their entire lives…they belong here, not in another country. Fix it, we broke it…give them residency if they can prove they graduated and are paying taxes.
Second, spouses of US citizens. Roll back the requirements to those pre 1996, when a person paid a fine for the illegal presence and were given a waiver, allowed to adjust status upon proving a legitimate marriage….yes, they need to prove a work history and need to prove payment of taxes as well as no criminal record. Legitimate marriage to me is one where children exist or more than 5 years of marriage.
Reinstate VAWA…we shouldn’t allow spouses to marry, not legalize their spouse, and then beat the living crap out of them and not give them protection. Too many cases occurred where foreign wives were brought and beaten and threatened with deportation if they called the police. This should not happen in this country, ever.
Allow those illegally in the country to enlist in the military in order to obtain a legal status. If the person is willing to serve, I am willing to give them permanent residency.
If a person has a business and is contributing to this country, has been here more than 3 years, paid taxes, has no criminal record, give them a temporary status, then after 10 years allow them to adjust that status to permanent and after 5 more, citizenship.
Establish a real guest worker program for agricultural and other labor intensive industries. Visas would be good for 9 months and reapplied for after 3 months in their respective countries.
Enlist E-verify, but make it where people are given the opportunity to prove their status and not be fired immediately or denied employment…I am a mismatch…because my identity was stolen while I was out of the country. My identity was used to file taxes for jobs I didn’t perform and with fake W2 forms out of Atlanta, it was an identity theft ring, before some say it was an illegal immigrant, it wasn’t.
Enlist protections for those who are witnesses to crimes in this country. Criminals shouldn’t be allowed a free pass due to the immigration status of the witness or victim.
Require that permanent residents be allowed to renew their permanent residency no more than 2 times before they are required to file for citizenship.
Stop deporting veterans for smoking marijuana….sorry, that is just stupid.
Now some of you deport, deport, deport, have no issues with tearing apart families…but I do have issue with it.

Asylum, establish the ability to apply for asylum from a consulate in a neighboring country. Do not require them to enter the country and then apply. Provide documentation and make agreements with these countries that allow them temporary status while they await the adjudication of their asylum claim.

Fire away…


Only one thing matters: NO PATH TO CITIZENSHIP!
 
I have a plan too.We don't need a wall.Put up a sign every 100 feet that says trespassers will be shot.End of problem.

Would you shoot women and children?
 
Rather than arrest people who cross the border illegally, simply escort them back to their own side. Problem solved.
 
Rather than arrest people who cross the border illegally, simply escort them back to their own side. Problem solved.

How many times? 100 each ?
 
How many times? 100 each ?

Whatever it takes. Why should they be released into America or placed in our jails for us to care for when they simply need to be escorted out.
 
1700s, before then, England and Scotland, with some Chicasaw mixed in.

Interesting. Mine first sailed in 1609 from England, were shipwrecked on Bermuda while onboard the Sea Venture and then 11 months later arrived in Jamestowne. My other side was from Southern Europe in 1903.
 
When did your ancestors come to America?

Did those ancestors receive benefits like housing, food stamps, cash, health care, free education, free legal advisers, etc. etc. etc.?

In fact, did anybody coming through Ellis Island receive any of the above?
 
Did those ancestors receive benefits like housing, food stamps, cash, health care, free education, free legal advisers, etc. etc. etc.?

In fact, did anybody coming through Ellis Island receive any of the above?

You are really consumed with hate. Please, get some psychological help.
 
You are really consumed with hate. Please, get some psychological help.

Can't. Under Obamacare I can only see shrinks that are about 80 miles from my home and the government refuses to provide transportation for me ... probably on account of being an American and not an illegal.
 
Can't. Under Obamacare I can only see shrinks that are about 80 miles from my home and the government refuses to provide transportation for me ... probably on account of being an American and not an illegal.

Since it's now 45care, what a bummer for ya.
 
Nope; still Obummacare and at least next year, too.

I'm sure the GOP will come to your aid to provide you with better care like 45 promised. Good luck.
 
The thread isn't about ACA...it is about immigration reform. Without ACA you wouldn't even have a doctor to drive to, because you wouldn't be qualified for insurance.

Now, for the person that made the absolutely ridiculous comment about shooting....get over yourself. Contribute to the discussion or walk away....shooting women and children is what Hitler would do.
 
The thread isn't about ACA...it is about immigration reform. Without ACA you wouldn't even have a doctor to drive to, because you wouldn't be qualified for insurance.

Now, for the person that made the absolutely ridiculous comment about shooting....get over yourself. Contribute to the discussion or walk away....shooting women and children is what Hitler would do.

Good night, dear.
 
Immigration reform by Clara D (no link needed, this is mine.)

Fire away…

Here you go –
1 - “…there needs to be immigration reform.”
No politician (liberal or conservative) wants to solve this issue; it’s been around for generations and every election cycle (Presidential, Senate and Congressional) the issue has only been used to sway votes. Unless someone can shame Congress into action, nothing will change.
2 – “…ones that not enough citizens filled.”
Why allow seasonal illegal workers take available jobs, when there are so many capable workers living on welfare? Why do we give free lunches – to anyone who can contribute? What is missing from your observation are things like the human trafficking, drugs, and other “things” that nobody paid attention to. As corrupt as the Mexican government, cartel, coyotes, etc. are, do you truly believe those “seasonal workers” you barely noticed got/get to keep much of the money they took back? I’m not saying everyone who illegally seeks work in America is a monstrous criminal, most just want to make money for themselves and/or their family.
3 – “…if they can prove they graduated and are paying taxes.”
For the Dreams, to a point I agree – for those who actually applied to stay and those even fewer who applied for citizen ship – yes; for the others who simply want to mooch off our (America’s) generosity – absolutely not. On another note, how is it possible for an undocumented individual to legally pay taxes? If you’re referring to sales taxes (as “paying their taxes”) you’re way off. To pay Federal, State, Medicare and other taxes (the taxes that are supposed to benefit all Americans), you must have a social security number (SSN) (those are only given to American citizens) or a “foreign ID” assigned to a legal entrant. How does one pay these taxes without a valid SSN (or foreign ID)? If an illegal entrant uses a fraudulent SSN, foreign ID, or assumes someone else’s SSN then not only are they guilty of illegal entry, but also identity theft!
4 - Roll back the requirements to those pre 1996, when a person paid a fine
I would agree; however, in the past, the fines where so egregious that few could afford to pay them.
5 – “Reinstate VAWA.”
Unfortunately, VAWA would not cure this situation; fear is a difficult thing to overcome.
6 - Allow those illegally in the country to enlist in the military in order to obtain a legal status
This one I agree with, provided they also apply to become American citizens.
7 – “...has been here more than 3 years, paid taxes, has no criminal record...”
Again, how does one pay Federal, Medicare, etc. taxes without a valid SSN/foreign ID?
8 - Establish a real guest worker program for agricultural and other labor intensive industries.
Only if those on welfare (and who can work) cannot fill those jobs. Actually, there is a program in place for this exact situation, but many farmers, etc. either don’t realize they can utilize this program or they just want cheap labor.
9 – “…make it where people are given the opportunity to prove their status…”
How would one “prove” their status if they entered the country illegally?
10 - Enlist protections for those who are witnesses to crimes in this country.
This goes back to the “fear” factor, especially if the witness is here illegally and is afraid of deportation or reprisal from “gang” members (or worse). How could an illegal entrant, who is such a witness, be protected? How long should their “Good Samaritan” action allow them to remain?
11 – “Require that permanent residents be allowed to renew their permanent residency...”
Not sure about this one, I may simply be ignorant of this issue, but logically, why would one need to re-file for “permanent” residency? I would agree that if they intend to stay here permanently, they do as American citizens.
12 – “Stop deporting veterans...”
“Veterans”?? I’ve never heard of this happening. If you’re referring to the federally illegal act of smoking marijuana, what laws is it acceptable to break for recreational purposes? I say – don’t break the law – change it! If enough people pressure their politicians, it would/will happen.
13 – “…have no issues with tearing apart families.”
I agree - forcibly separating families is horrible; although it happens every day to Americans (with children) who break the law and are arrested. I would say give the family, trying to enter the US illegally, a choice – leave the border area and apply to enter legally, or agree to be separated.
14 – “…apply for asylum from a consulate in a neighboring country.”
Actually, this is how it should to be done. Unfortunately, many are ignorant and simply not told. It’s amazing how many $Ks people pay “coyotes” to get them across the U.S. boarder when they could do it for free – and legally!! Why won’t Soros, and his ilk, spread the RIGHT word and help those truly seeking asylum?
 
When did your ancestors come to America?

Interesting. Mexico and most of South America is run by the upper class Castilian Spanish descended from the conquistadors back in the day. They own everything and the brown peasants - decendents from the Indians, Aztecs, and other indigenous people are just a pain in the ass. That’s why they facilitate their movement north so they don’t have to deal with the land reform needed to lift the masses out of poverty.

They have a left wing reformer on the Mexican ballot. He’s a dead man walking.
 
Did those ancestors receive benefits like housing, food stamps, cash, health care, free education, free legal advisers, etc. etc. etc.?

In fact, did anybody coming through Ellis Island receive any of the above?

These dont receive those benefits either
 
Here you go –
1 - “…there needs to be immigration reform.”
No politician (liberal or conservative) wants to solve this issue; it’s been around for generations and every election cycle (Presidential, Senate and Congressional) the issue has only been used to sway votes. Unless someone can shame Congress into action, nothing will change.
2 – “…ones that not enough citizens filled.”
Why allow seasonal illegal workers take available jobs, when there are so many capable workers living on welfare? Why do we give free lunches – to anyone who can contribute? What is missing from your observation are things like the human trafficking, drugs, and other “things” that nobody paid attention to. As corrupt as the Mexican government, cartel, coyotes, etc. are, do you truly believe those “seasonal workers” you barely noticed got/get to keep much of the money they took back? I’m not saying everyone who illegally seeks work in America is a monstrous criminal, most just want to make money for themselves and/or their family.
3 – “…if they can prove they graduated and are paying taxes.”
For the Dreams, to a point I agree – for those who actually applied to stay and those even fewer who applied for citizen ship – yes; for the others who simply want to mooch off our (America’s) generosity – absolutely not. On another note, how is it possible for an undocumented individual to legally pay taxes? If you’re referring to sales taxes (as “paying their taxes”) you’re way off. To pay Federal, State, Medicare and other taxes (the taxes that are supposed to benefit all Americans), you must have a social security number (SSN) (those are only given to American citizens) or a “foreign ID” assigned to a legal entrant. How does one pay these taxes without a valid SSN (or foreign ID)? If an illegal entrant uses a fraudulent SSN, foreign ID, or assumes someone else’s SSN then not only are they guilty of illegal entry, but also identity theft!
4 - Roll back the requirements to those pre 1996, when a person paid a fine
I would agree; however, in the past, the fines where so egregious that few could afford to pay them.
5 – “Reinstate VAWA.”
Unfortunately, VAWA would not cure this situation; fear is a difficult thing to overcome.
6 - Allow those illegally in the country to enlist in the military in order to obtain a legal status
This one I agree with, provided they also apply to become American citizens.
7 – “...has been here more than 3 years, paid taxes, has no criminal record...”
Again, how does one pay Federal, Medicare, etc. taxes without a valid SSN/foreign ID?
8 - Establish a real guest worker program for agricultural and other labor intensive industries.
Only if those on welfare (and who can work) cannot fill those jobs. Actually, there is a program in place for this exact situation, but many farmers, etc. either don’t realize they can utilize this program or they just want cheap labor.
9 – “…make it where people are given the opportunity to prove their status…”
How would one “prove” their status if they entered the country illegally?
10 - Enlist protections for those who are witnesses to crimes in this country.
This goes back to the “fear” factor, especially if the witness is here illegally and is afraid of deportation or reprisal from “gang” members (or worse). How could an illegal entrant, who is such a witness, be protected? How long should their “Good Samaritan” action allow them to remain?
11 – “Require that permanent residents be allowed to renew their permanent residency...”
Not sure about this one, I may simply be ignorant of this issue, but logically, why would one need to re-file for “permanent” residency? I would agree that if they intend to stay here permanently, they do as American citizens.
12 – “Stop deporting veterans...”
“Veterans”?? I’ve never heard of this happening. If you’re referring to the federally illegal act of smoking marijuana, what laws is it acceptable to break for recreational purposes? I say – don’t break the law – change it! If enough people pressure their politicians, it would/will happen.
13 – “…have no issues with tearing apart families.”
I agree - forcibly separating families is horrible; although it happens every day to Americans (with children) who break the law and are arrested. I would say give the family, trying to enter the US illegally, a choice – leave the border area and apply to enter legally, or agree to be separated.


Big ed, first nice to meet you, I have a response, but I have to get ready for work. Im a partner in a landscaping design company and we have a big job starting today. So I will get back and post my response after 11 mountain time
 
Back
Top Bottom