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Plan on Immigration Reform

ClaraD said:
These dont receive those benefits either
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Who pays for the lawyers and translators? Do the "asylum" seekers bring their own lawyers and translators?

Besides ...

Steven A. Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies - "... A large share of the welfare used by immigrant households is received on behalf of their US-born children,” Camarota said. “This is especially true of households headed by illegal immigrants.”

... While the national media routinely report that illegal immigrants don’t go on welfare, Camarota says this is a pervasive myth.

... The US Census Bureau’s latest “survey of income and program participation” shows that 62 percent of illegal-immigrant-headed households are on the federal dole — more than double the rate for households headed by native-born Americans.

... There is also an Emergency Medicaid program that covers predominantly illegal immigrants. Funds from the multibillion-dollar program go to hospitals to offset the cost of treating adult illegal aliens who can’t pay their bills. And it’s not just for ER visits. In New York, the program can be used to provide chemotherapy and radiation therapy for illegal immigrants.

... Indeed, the Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that 3 million DREAM Act recipients would receive an estimated $12 billion-plus in ObamaCare subsidies, more than $5.5 billion in Medicaid benefits, $5.5 billion in earned-income and child-tax credits and more than $2 billion in food stamps. ..."


https://nypost.com/2018/03/10/cutting-welfare-to-illegal-aliens-would-pay-for-trumps-wall/
 
Barnacle said:
Who pays for the lawyers and translators? Do the "asylum" seekers bring their own lawyers and translators?

Besides ...

Steven A. Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies - "... A large share of the welfare used by immigrant households is received on behalf of their US-born children,” Camarota said. “This is especially true of households headed by illegal immigrants.”

... While the national media routinely report that illegal immigrants don’t go on welfare, Camarota says this is a pervasive myth.

... The US Census Bureau’s latest “survey of income and program participation” shows that 62 percent of illegal-immigrant-headed households are on the federal dole — more than double the rate for households headed by native-born Americans.

... There is also an Emergency Medicaid program that covers predominantly illegal immigrants. Funds from the multibillion-dollar program go to hospitals to offset the cost of treating adult illegal aliens who can’t pay their bills. And it’s not just for ER visits. In New York, the program can be used to provide chemotherapy and radiation therapy for illegal immigrants.

... Indeed, the Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that 3 million DREAM Act recipients would receive an estimated $12 billion-plus in ObamaCare subsidies, more than $5.5 billion in Medicaid benefits, $5.5 billion in earned-income and child-tax credits and more than $2 billion in food stamps. ..."


https://nypost.com/2018/03/10/cutting-welfare-to-illegal-aliens-would-pay-for-trumps-wall/
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They pay for their own or find pro bono. We dont provide either translation or legal representation to asylees. My family is paying $7500 per person for their attorney. There are 10 so for everyone $75,000 that's not free
 
ClaraD said:
They pay for their own or find pro bono. We dont provide either translation or legal representation to asylees. My family is paying $7500 per person for their attorney. There are 10 so for everyone $75,000 that's not free
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You've got 10 relatives or friends sitting in the southern border detention centers? Wow ...
 
Big Ed, here is the reply I promised

1 - “…there needs to be immigration reform.”
No politician (liberal or conservative) wants to solve this issue; it’s been around for generations and every election cycle (Presidential, Senate and Congressional) the issue has only been used to sway votes. Unless someone can shame Congress into action, nothing will change. I agree no politician has really wanted to solve this, except GWB, the rest have played political football with it instead of doing something.
2 – “…ones that not enough citizens filled.”
Why allow seasonal illegal workers take available jobs, when there are so many capable workers living on welfare? Why do we give free lunches – to anyone who can contribute? What is missing from your observation are things like the human trafficking, drugs, and other “things” that nobody paid attention to. As corrupt as the Mexican government, cartel, coyotes, etc. are, do you truly believe those “seasonal workers” you barely noticed got/get to keep much of the money they took back? I’m not saying everyone who illegally seeks work in America is a monstrous criminal, most just want to make money for themselves and/or their family. We have more jobs available in this type of jobs, than we have people on welfare. You aren't going to send a 60 year old woman with dementia to cut peaches. Almost all welfare recipients are either children or disabled, the rest work due to work requirements.

how is it possible for an undocumented individual to legally pay taxes? If you’re referring to sales taxes (as “paying their taxes”) you’re way off. To pay Federal, State, Medicare and other taxes (the taxes that are supposed to benefit all Americans), you must have a social security number (SSN) (those are only given to American citizens) or a “foreign ID” assigned to a legal entrant. You are wrong here, you don't have to be a US citizen to get a SS number, you only need to be legally here, including student visas. You also don't need a SSN to file taxes, you need an ITIN number, which does not require legal status.
 
4 - Roll back the requirements to those pre 1996, when a person paid a fine
I would agree; however, in the past, the fines where so egregious that few could afford to pay them.
A sponsor(spouse or family) has to prove they are financially capable of supporting the person in question. That means they can pay the $1500 fine...people who want to be legal will pay it.
5 – “Reinstate VAWA.”
Unfortunately, VAWA would not cure this situation; fear is a difficult thing to overcome. It may be difficult, but at least not impossible, we should reinstate VAWA to allow victims to have that option instead of nothing at all.

7 – “...has been here more than 3 years, paid taxes, has no criminal record...”
Again, how does one pay Federal, Medicare, etc. taxes without a valid SSN/foreign ID? See how I explained that above, they pay with an ITIN number.
8 - Establish a real guest worker program for agricultural and other labor intensive industries.
Only if those on welfare (and who can work) cannot fill those jobs. Actually, there is a program in place for this exact situation, but many farmers, etc. either don’t realize they can utilize this program or they just want cheap labor. Actually, the program as it stands is almost impossible to accomplish, that is why they don't use it. Most labor like this do not have thousands of dollars to come and earn $200 a week for what is all of 4 to 5 months.
 
MrWonka said:
Thank you for proving which party is 100% to blame for a failure of immigration reform.
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exactly, if they realized that about 50% or more turn Conservative, they would not be singing that tune...the problem is they have been hoodwinked into believing the opposite....this is precisely why they refuse to allow PR to become a state.
 
Barnacle said:
You've got 10 relatives or friends sitting in the southern border detention centers? Wow ...
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No, all but 2 family members have been released as of 3 years ago...they are going through the asylum process...which takes YEARS.
 
ClaraD said:
No, all but 2 family members have been released as of 3 years ago...they are going through the asylum process...which takes YEARS.
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But all those family members of yours showed up at the southern border and declared: "Here I am and I request asylum." Correct?
 
ClaraD said:
exactly, if they realized that about 50% or more turn Conservative, they would not be singing that tune...the problem is they have been hoodwinked into believing the opposite....this is precisely why they refuse to allow PR to become a state.
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"... the clear majority of Puerto Rican voters have consistently rejected the idea of statehood in five referenda held on the matter. In 1967, 1993, 1998, 2012 and 2017, Puerto Rican voters have reiterated time and again that they do not want Puerto Rico to become a state. ..."

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-b...ott-misses-the-mark-on-puerto-rican-statehood
 
Barnacle said:
But all those family members of yours showed up at the southern border and declared: "Here I am and I request asylum." Correct?
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Yes, they did. Might I refer you to where I told the history in the Latin American forum.
 
MrWonka said:
Thank you for proving which party is 100% to blame for a failure of immigration reform.
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The illegals themselves don't care much about citizenship. However, it's my pleasure to prove that Democrats are to blame.
 
ClaraD said:
exactly, if they realized that about 50% or more turn Conservative, they would not be singing that tune...the problem is they have been hoodwinked into believing the opposite....this is precisely why they refuse to allow PR to become a state.
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That's only true when the second generation reaches adulthood. First generation are overwhelmingly Democrat. Exhibit A: Virginia.
 
Barnacle said:
"... the clear majority of Puerto Rican voters have consistently rejected the idea of statehood in five referenda held on the matter. In 1967, 1993, 1998, 2012 and 2017, Puerto Rican voters have reiterated time and again that they do not want Puerto Rico to become a state. ..."

Gov. Scott misses the mark on Puerto Rican statehood | TheHill
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They voted twice now to become a state. Im sure I can dig up a link

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.te...to-rico-votes-become-americas-51st-state/amp/
 
Barnacle said:
Doesn't matter, as long as 80% of PR voters don't even vote in such a referendum, the 20% that did vote don't carry enough weight.

"... But eight out of ten voters did not bother to cast their vote - a sign of apathy unlikely to help Mr Rossello's cause. ..."
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Not everyone is eligible to vote. How much of the population are children? My bets are over 40% now deduct the percent unable to vote...and what is left? Should we invalidate the US presidential vote because the vote percentages were low?
 
ClaraD said:
Not everyone is eligible to vote. How much of the population are children? My bets are over 40% now deduct the percent unable to vote...and what is left? Should we invalidate the US presidential vote because the vote percentages were low?
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The article said 8 out of 10 PR voters, not 8 out of 10 PR population.
 
ClaraD said:
Big Ed, here is the reply I promised

1 - I agree no politician has really wanted to solve this, except GWB, the rest have played political football with it instead of doing something.[/COLOR]
2 – We have more jobs available in this type of jobs, than we have people on welfare. You aren't going to send a 60 year old woman with dementia to cut peaches. Almost all welfare recipients are either children or disabled, the rest work due to work requirements.[/COLOR]

3 - how is it possible for an undocumented individual to legally pay taxes?
You are wrong here, you don't have to be a US citizen to get a SS number, you only need to be legally here, including student visas. You also don't need a SSN to file taxes, you need an ITIN number, which does not require legal status.[/COLOR]
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ClaraD - Thank you for the response and I fully understand - I don't get to participate in these discussions as much as I like either.

This country truly needs viable immigration reform! Unfortunately, the past has shown that Politian's will not do anything more than provide "lip service" to their constituents as long as they perceive they can muster more votes by keeping the issue a controversy.

I would not (and did not) say we should force the handicap, the elderly, the children, etc. who receive welfare to work - I DO believe, that those receiving welfare and ARE capable of working - should! I believe that if you check the numbers, you'll find there are a good number that could perform many of these 'undesirable' jobs. I also agree that jobs that cannot be filed with direct hires or capable welfare recipients, should be opened to 'migrant workers' - there is a current program available for such situations. Unfortunately, disreputable farmers, companies, etc. holding those jobs would rather pay the lower wages than abide by the program. Even when caught, the fines they pay are miniscule in comparison to the profits they make.

Concerning taxes and ITINs, I agree that those here 'legally' and on Visas pay appropriate taxes; however, where do the others (those entering illegally) obtain an ITIN? How many 'undocumented' individuals actually obtain an ITIN and pay their Federal (etc.) taxes?
 
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let people come in and stay as long as they are not violent criminals throw in welfare attached to pointless work and offer people training if your worried about folks being lazy

do that id be fine with locking up then shiping back adult illegal immigrants
 
Big Ed said:
ClaraD - Thank you for the response and I fully understand - I don't get to participate in these discussions as much as I like either.

This country truly needs viable immigration reform! Unfortunately, the past has shown that Politian's will not do anything more than provide "lip service" to their constituents as long as they perceive they can muster more votes by keeping the issue a controversy.

I would not (and did not) say we should force the handicap, the elderly, the children, etc. who receive welfare to work - I DO believe, that those receiving welfare and ARE capable of working - should! I believe that if you check the numbers, you'll find there are a good number that could perform many of these 'undesirable' jobs. I also agree that jobs that cannot be filed with direct hires or capable welfare recipients, should be opened to 'migrant workers' - there is a current program available for such situations. Unfortunately, disreputable farmers, companies, etc. holding those jobs would rather pay the lower wages than abide by the program. Even when caught, the fines they pay are miniscule in comparison to the profits they make.

Concerning taxes and ITINs, I agree that those here 'legally' and on Visas pay appropriate taxes; however, where do the others (those entering illegally) obtain an ITIN? How many 'undocumented' individuals actually obtain an ITIN and pay their Federal (etc.) taxes?
Click to expand...

To get and keep an ITIN you have to pay taxes every year....without doing that it expires. Here are some facts that may help understand a bit more about the ITIN.

Many immigrants have ITINs. People who do not have a lawful status in the United States may obtain an ITIN. In addition, the following people are lawfully in the country and must pay taxes but may not be eligible for a SSN and may obtain an ITIN:
A non-resident foreign national who owns or invests in a U.S. business and receives taxable income from that U.S. business, but lives in another country.
A foreign national student who qualifies as a resident of the United States (based on days present in the United States).
A dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident.
A dependent or spouse of a foreign national on a temporary visa.

ITIN holders pay taxes.
ITINs let more people pay into the system, which builds the tax base. According to the IRS, in 2015, 4.35 million people paid over 13.7 billion in net taxes using an ITIN.
ITIN holders are not eligible for all of the tax benefits and public benefits that U.S. citizens and other taxpayers can receive. For example, an ITIN holder is not eligible for Social Security benefits or the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). However, if that person becomes eligible for Social Security in the future (for example, by becoming a lawful permanent resident), the earnings reported with an ITIN may be counted toward the amount he or she is eligible to receive.
Some ITIN holders are eligible for the Child Tax Credit (CTC). According to the new tax bill passed in December 2017, the CTC tax credit may be worth as much as $2,000 per qualifying child, depending upon the applicant’s income. Because ITIN holders are eligible for the CTC, over 4 million U.S. citizen children benefit from the tax credit, however if a child does not have a SSN they are no longer eligible for the tax credit.
https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...out-individual-tax-identification-number-itin
 
ClaraD said:
To get and keep an ITIN you have to pay taxes every year....without doing that it expires. Here are some facts that may help understand a bit more about the ITIN.

Many immigrants have ITINs. People who do not have a lawful status in the United States may obtain an ITIN. In addition, the following people are lawfully in the country and must pay taxes but may not be eligible for a SSN and may obtain an ITIN:
A non-resident foreign national who owns or invests in a U.S. business and receives taxable income from that U.S. business, but lives in another country.
A foreign national student who qualifies as a resident of the United States (based on days present in the United States).
A dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident.
A dependent or spouse of a foreign national on a temporary visa.

ITIN holders pay taxes.
ITINs let more people pay into the system, which builds the tax base. According to the IRS, in 2015, 4.35 million people paid over 13.7 billion in net taxes using an ITIN.
ITIN holders are not eligible for all of the tax benefits and public benefits that U.S. citizens and other taxpayers can receive. For example, an ITIN holder is not eligible for Social Security benefits or the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). However, if that person becomes eligible for Social Security in the future (for example, by becoming a lawful permanent resident), the earnings reported with an ITIN may be counted toward the amount he or she is eligible to receive.
Some ITIN holders are eligible for the Child Tax Credit (CTC). According to the new tax bill passed in December 2017, the CTC tax credit may be worth as much as $2,000 per qualifying child, depending upon the applicant’s income. Because ITIN holders are eligible for the CTC, over 4 million U.S. citizen children benefit from the tax credit, however if a child does not have a SSN they are no longer eligible for the tax credit.
https://www.americanimmigrationcoun...out-individual-tax-identification-number-itin
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I will claim my ignorance in the arena of ITINs - thanks for the information and I will refer to the site you listed.
 
Big Ed said:
I will claim my ignorance in the arena of ITINs - thanks for the information and I will refer to the site you listed.
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No problem, we all can learn something new. None of us started out knowing everything, there are many many things I learn from others like yourself.
 
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