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Why didn't teh DACA deal work?

Dittohead not! said:
If that's so, then the companies that pay a high wage soon go out of business, and the ones that pay a low wage take over. Low wage jobs become the norm, and the middle class gets screwed again. What a plan!
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Its a free market. If the company can employ enough people to perform their work at what ever wage they want its their business to do with as they please. But that doesnt mean people have to work for them nor does it mean the government should supply them with foreignors to keep their business afloat.
 
jdog21 said:
Its a free market. If the company can employ enough people to perform their work at what ever wage they want its their business to do with as they please. But that doesnt mean people have to work for them nor does it mean the government should supply them with foreignors to keep their business afloat.
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That's true. And, people will want to work for them if the alternative is to work elsewhere at a low wage.
Should the government give them an incentive to stay in America?
 
Lutherf said:
According to this article in Rolling Stone - https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/daca-vs-the-wall-whats-the-deal-w515512 - the Senate deal would have allowed amnesty for dreamers but prohibited their parents from becoming citizens, ended the "diversity lottery" but reallocated the visas to other countries and provided funding for border security.



That sounds like a good bit if give and take to me. Protect the kids but don't reward the parents who committed the crime. Makes sense to me. Improving border security should be a no brainer and the transfer of the "lottery" visas to a specific program seems prudent.

Maybe I'm missing something. Why was this such a bad deal that most of the Democrats, a few "NeverTrump" GOP fatalists and Rand Paul who is an ideological purist couldn't support it?
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Before even reading the thread beyond your post Lutherf...I'll bet someone has mentioned something along the lines of "Trump is racist and doesn't want brown people" or "because the GOP is racist and don't want brown people" or some other similar line.
 
Dittohead not! said:
That's true. And, people will want to work for them if the alternative is to work elsewhere at a low wage.
Should the government give them an incentive to stay in America?
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People will always choose whats the best work situation for them in which most cases but not all is for more money. The governments incentive for that business to stay in america so that they will employ the people here in america is a function of the government yes but it can be done on multiple different fronts.

For instance if the government says you will not be allowed to sell your product in the united states unless you made the product here. This would cause companies that make most their money from sells in the US to move back here and an effect would the price of that product would probably increase in its sells price to ofset the higher increase in labor wages. Another effect would be companies that sell alot of their product over seas would then leave.
Another style is to increase tarrifs on products. This can be done on certain products or be put on certain geographical locations or countries. Increasing the cost to the company to sell their product back in the US from those areas or those products. This can force companies to either increase the price of their product which can lead to lower sells or make it more affordable to choose to make the back here in the states.
So what im saying is their are many different options the governmen can do and many different combonations they can do to make it so companies stay in america and hire american citizens. But what we have been seeing is with H1B1 visa companies dont want american trained employees they rather have foreign train employees cause to them it makes more $ sense. The government gives in to the corporations because they fear they would ship their labor out of the country if they dont and are not willing to go down the road of tarrifs or foreign taxation to mitigate it. The WTO is a great example of an organization that hurts american workers. Also are government fears inflation. Which I think is the biggest reason for them pushing for more immigration. Cause with out the flow of low skilled workers or for the illegals for the farms inflation would sky rocket. So in a way they are choosing to undermine the american worker to keep inflation low. Also they are unwilling to try alternative work forces like we used to have in the past. For instance able bodied welfare recepiants used to have to perform work in order to continue to recieve tax payers money. This was killed in legislation because they first did away with the part were if you made extra money from your job that it would ofset the money you recieved from tax payers. At first glance this looks good to the tax payer but it also keeps the poor, poor and then they are able to remove the requirment to work altogether under public opion of indentured servatude. If they allowed then money they made from a job to not reduce government tax payer benefiets they practice would still be around today and immigration would be less of an issue. Another example is people that are in jail to work. This is still practiced but at a heavily reduced rate then what is was in the 70s and prior. Inmates would be able to get fresh air and change their scenory instead of locked in a cell. It provided them with responsibility, self worth, and provided them with a skill that might be able to help them when they got out, also the money they recieved was super low wages but it was put into stocks and bonds that gained intrest for the inmate until their release from prison. It also provided our society with low wage labor and reduced the need for immigrants. I think both need to come back and that would help keep inflation low and reduce immigrants.
Sorry for the rant.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Before even reading the thread beyond your post Lutherf...I'll bet someone has mentioned something along the lines of "Trump is racist and doesn't want brown people" or "because the GOP is racist and don't want brown people" or some other similar line.
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Wow.....I was wrong. 3 pages in and no one has mentioned the word "racist" or "brown" yet? WTH? Usually it happens by now. I'm glad I was wrong on this. How long can it last though? I hope for the life of the thread.
 
jdog21 said:
People will always choose whats the best work situation for them in which most cases but not all is for more money. The governments incentive for that business to stay in america so that they will employ the people here in america is a function of the government yes but it can be done on multiple different fronts.

For instance if the government says you will not be allowed to sell your product in the united states unless you made the product here. This would cause companies that make most their money from sells in the US to move back here and an effect would the price of that product would probably increase in its sells price to ofset the higher increase in labor wages. Another effect would be companies that sell alot of their product over seas would then leave.
Another style is to increase tarrifs on products. This can be done on certain products or be put on certain geographical locations or countries. Increasing the cost to the company to sell their product back in the US from those areas or those products. This can force companies to either increase the price of their product which can lead to lower sells or make it more affordable to choose to make the back here in the states.
So what im saying is their are many different options the governmen can do and many different combonations they can do to make it so companies stay in america and hire american citizens. But what we have been seeing is with H1B1 visa companies dont want american trained employees they rather have foreign train employees cause to them it makes more $ sense. The government gives in to the corporations because they fear they would ship their labor out of the country if they dont and are not willing to go down the road of tarrifs or foreign taxation to mitigate it. The WTO is a great example of an organization that hurts american workers. Also are government fears inflation. Which I think is the biggest reason for them pushing for more immigration. Cause with out the flow of low skilled workers or for the illegals for the farms inflation would sky rocket. So in a way they are choosing to undermine the american worker to keep inflation low. Also they are unwilling to try alternative work forces like we used to have in the past. For instance able bodied welfare recepiants used to have to perform work in order to continue to recieve tax payers money. This was killed in legislation because they first did away with the part were if you made extra money from your job that it would ofset the money you recieved from tax payers. At first glance this looks good to the tax payer but it also keeps the poor, poor and then they are able to remove the requirment to work altogether under public opion of indentured servatude. If they allowed then money they made from a job to not reduce government tax payer benefiets they practice would still be around today and immigration would be less of an issue. Another example is people that are in jail to work. This is still practiced but at a heavily reduced rate then what is was in the 70s and prior. Inmates would be able to get fresh air and change their scenory instead of locked in a cell. It provided them with responsibility, self worth, and provided them with a skill that might be able to help them when they got out, also the money they recieved was super low wages but it was put into stocks and bonds that gained intrest for the inmate until their release from prison. It also provided our society with low wage labor and reduced the need for immigrants. I think both need to come back and that would help keep inflation low and reduce immigrants.
Sorry for the rant.
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What ever happened to the "workfare" bill signed by Clinton back in the '90s? Seems like we would have had requirements to work for government welfare in place since that time, yet we're revisiting the issue now.
 
Dittohead not! said:
What ever happened to the "workfare" bill signed by Clinton back in the '90s? Seems like we would have had requirements to work for government welfare in place since that time, yet we're revisiting the issue now.
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Under Obama he made workfare optional to the states. And apparently the media didnt care and republicans didnt make a stink about it.
 
jdog21 said:
Under Obama he made workfare optional to the states. And apparently the media didnt care and republicans didnt make a stink about it.
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They made a stink about everything else Obama did, why not that?
 
Dittohead not! said:
They made a stink about everything else Obama did, why not that?
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Wish I knew. Probably for the same reasons they dont really want to do immigration reform they are just trying to not lose the voters that voted for Trump
 
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