• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Border Wall Test Results: US Military Special Forces Unable to Breach Wall Prototypes

truthatallcost

truthatallcost

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
26,719
Reaction score
6,278
Location
California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
SAN DIEGO — Recent assaults by tactical teams on prototypes of President Donald Trump’s proposed wall with Mexico found their imposing heights should stop border crossers, The Associated Press has learned. Military special forces based in Florida and U.S. Customs and Border Protection special units spent three weeks trying to breach and scale the eight models in San Diego, using jackhammers, saws, torches and other tools and climbing devices, a U.S. official with direct knowledge of the rigorous testing told the AP on condition of anonymity because the information was not authorized for public release.

The findings appear to challenge what Janet Napolitano, now chancellor of the University of California, often said when she was President Barack Obama’s homeland security secretary: “You show me a 50-foot wall, and I’ll show you a 51-foot ladder.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...bf0da31214d_story.html?utm_term=.6d9988f34dbb
Click to expand...

If built, the wall could curb a lot of drug smuggling from Mexican cartels, saving thousands of American lives. The wall would also help to save the lives of Mexicans who cross under hazardous conditions.
We'll still face the problem of people who overstay their visas, but addressing one problem at a time is better than doing nothing.
 
How about that? One would think smart guys like 'Special Forces' and all the smart people in the US Military would look at and know how to read a map.

Because of the Gulf of Mexico and boats why would anyone try to go over a wall when a map shows that the wall could easily be gone around?
 
How useless are the special forces if a simple wall defeats them? Asking for a friend.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
How about that? One would think smart guys like 'Special Forces' and all the smart people in the US Military would look at and know how to read a map.

Because of the Gulf of Mexico and boats why would anyone try to go over a wall when a map shows that the wall could easily be gone around?
Click to expand...

How about the plan of simply surrendering en masse to border patrol, claiming asylum (drug gangs are after me?) or TPS eligibility status, and getting released pending a hearing on the matter and then *gasp* simply not showing up for that hearing?
 
truthatallcost said:
If built, the wall could curb a lot of drug smuggling from Mexican cartels, saving thousands of American lives. The wall would also help to save the lives of Mexicans who cross under hazardous conditions.
We'll still face the problem of people who overstay their visas, but addressing one problem at a time is better than doing nothing.
Click to expand...

Agreed. The reduction or stopping of illegal immigrant and drug smuggling, reducing the income to the drug cartels, could only do Mexico some good too.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
How about that? One would think smart guys like 'Special Forces' and all the smart people in the US Military would look at and know how to read a map.

Because of the Gulf of Mexico and boats why would anyone try to go over a wall when a map shows that the wall could easily be gone around?
Click to expand...

I'm always amazed by people who think this "They can just go around so why build a wall?" argument has any merit.

Right now people can and do come into the country via boat...in addition to having all that open border which MOST currently use. It's much easier and cheaper to just make arrangements to walk into the country than to go by boat.

Of course if you build a wall and properly monitor it, then almost all the traffic will try around the sides. That means less area to focus on, and makes it much easier to locate and catch people.

Your "they'll just go around" is an argument for the wall, not against it. :coffeepap:
 
truthatallcost said:
If built, the wall could curb a lot of drug smuggling from Mexican cartels, saving thousands of American lives. The wall would also help to save the lives of Mexicans who cross under hazardous conditions.
We'll still face the problem of people who overstay their visas, but addressing one problem at a time is better than doing nothing.
Click to expand...

If anyone really believes that a wall will stop any special forces (pick one)......................Then I have a bridge for sale.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
How about that? One would think smart guys like 'Special Forces' and all the smart people in the US Military would look at and know how to read a map.

Because of the Gulf of Mexico and boats why would anyone try to go over a wall when a map shows that the wall could easily be gone around?
Click to expand...

Ok so after the Wall we can put more resources in the coast guard. I mean you illegal immigration advocates always have an excuse with the answer being just to allow more illegal aliens to cross without doing anything
 
RetiredUSN said:
If anyone really believes that a wall will stop any special forces (pick one)......................Then I have a bridge for sale.
Click to expand...

It doesn’t need to “stop” anyone, it only needs to make travel too difficult or risky. Crossing a 15 foot wall takes time and increases exposure, risky of injury, and chance of being caught

It takes time to scale the 51 foot ladder and there’s substantial risk of falling from that ladder, tunnels take time and money and can be detected.
 
truthatallcost said:
If built, the wall could curb a lot of drug smuggling from Mexican cartels, saving thousands of American lives. The wall would also help to save the lives of Mexicans who cross under hazardous conditions.
We'll still face the problem of people who overstay their visas, but addressing one problem at a time is better than doing nothing.
Click to expand...

This is one of the more ridiculous posts I've seen here.

Why would American Special Forces be invading Mexico?

American Special Forces would have no problem entering Mexico through a legitimate border crossing.

American Special Forces have very fast boats and helicopters at their disposal.

The illicit drug supplies coming from Mexico are of relatively low quality.

High quality Afghani opiates have become relatively inexpensive and abundant. They do no arrive here via Mexico.

The best strains of marijuana are produced domestically.

The meth epidemic is fueled in domestic kitchens, bathrooms and garages.

Legitimately manufactured opioids are the most used illicitly used recreational drugs in America.

The incredible amount of inlets, coves, private marinas, homes with docks, private ownership of ocean going boats makes for a much more conducive environment for smuggling of anything, let alone drugs, makes the Mexican border far less tempting. If anyone thinks the US Coast Guard has the personnel and equipment to interdict significant seagoing contraband, I have a new video game for you to play with. In places like the state of Kentucky, where it seems almost everyone owns a small plane, their own landing strip, a cousin in the local sheriff's office, and a heritage of anti-revenue agent culture for moonshine, the amount of illicit drugs coming through to the UD in those small planes is inestimable. The 1k or so sq. miles of Howard Beach, Queens, NYC, has more ocean going vessels in private hands docked on seafront, Jamaica Bay, and canal homes and private marinas then the entire amphibious vessels in US military hands. Howard Beach cannot come close to the many Long Island waterfront communities on Long Island Sound, and inlets on the Atlantic Ocean. A single private marina in Flushing Bay, near Laguardia airport services more that 1,500 seagoing vessels annually. It is a small marina. A few years ago, a personal friend bought a custom made sailing yacht made in Argentina. Sailed it up the coast to that marina in Flushing Bay, himself and with his two sons, and wife. Upon docking in a slip, the Marina Master asked him to sign a form stating he carried no contraband. He signed. There was no inspection, and technically he did have contraband on board, fresh food bought in the Caribbean, and 20 cases of Argentinian wines. Because of it proximity to Laguardia airport, the marina is consider a vulnerable security risk on paper, and a secured site. Florida's coast line is still the major porous entrance for cocaine into the US.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
It doesn’t need to “stop” anyone, it only needs to make travel too difficult or risky. Crossing a 15 foot wall takes time and increases exposure, risky of injury, and chance of being caught

It takes time to scale the 51 foot ladder and there’s substantial risk of falling from that ladder, tunnels take time and money and can be detected.
Click to expand...

When in the service, we were trained to scale a 20' wall in 45 seconds, I don't think we were clocked under a 120 seconds. A 100 ft cliff wall in less than 4 minutes under fire. Never had an opportunity to use those skills outside of training. Maybe if I had been wrongly imprisoned at Chateau D'if? Who knows?

When the media reports the discovery of a Mexican US tunnel, you can be certain that was planned by whoever built it as a deflection for US police forces, while something else more important was going on elsewhere.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Ok so after the Wall we can put more resources in the coast guard. I mean you illegal immigration advocates always have an excuse with the answer being just to allow more illegal aliens to cross without doing anything
Click to expand...

Actually didn't Trump's original budget CUT moneys for the CG? Yes, it did.

WASHINGTON — President Trump is proposing increased military spending in his 2018 budget, but the proposal cuts $1.3 billion from the U.S Coast Guard, reducing its budget by 12%.
Click to expand...

But Congress got him to get rid of the cut, so the new budget keeps the CG's budget exactly the same, but considering all the other branches are getting increases that doesn't bode well for 'beefing up' the CG.

Fact is a wall is waste of money. Any high school geography student can point that out. But hey, 1 thing for certain with Trump supporters, they cared about spending, and government waste and decits when Obama was in office. Now? They don't give a **** about any of that. $20 bil on a wall that can easily be breached.. No big deal now. The hypocrisy by Trumpsters knows no bounds.

IOh and BTW I am in NO WAY an 'illegal immigration advocate'. I've said here many time the best way to stop illegal immigration is to go after the businesses and employers who HIRE them. It's a cheaper, easily, better way to stop illegals.

But that would mean Trump and the GOP will have to go after their business buddies and donors. So I doubt that will happen.
 
Last edited:
OldFatGuy said:
This is one of the more ridiculous posts I've seen here.

Why would American Special Forces be invading Mexico?

American Special Forces would have no problem entering Mexico through a legitimate border crossing.

American Special Forces have very fast boats and helicopters at their disposal.

The illicit drug supplies coming from Mexico are of relatively low quality.

High quality Afghani opiates have become relatively inexpensive and abundant. They do no arrive here via Mexico.

The best strains of marijuana are produced domestically.

The meth epidemic is fueled in domestic kitchens, bathrooms and garages.

Legitimately manufactured opioids are the most used illicitly used recreational drugs in America.

The incredible amount of inlets, coves, private marinas, homes with docks, private ownership of ocean going boats makes for a much more conducive environment for smuggling of anything, let alone drugs, makes the Mexican border far less tempting. If anyone thinks the US Coast Guard has the personnel and equipment to interdict significant seagoing contraband, I have a new video game for you to play with. In places like the state of Kentucky, where it seems almost everyone owns a small plane, their own landing strip, a cousin in the local sheriff's office, and a heritage of anti-revenue agent culture for moonshine, the amount of illicit drugs coming through to the UD in those small planes is inestimable. The 1k or so sq. miles of Howard Beach, Queens, NYC, has more ocean going vessels in private hands docked on seafront, Jamaica Bay, and canal homes and private marinas then the entire amphibious vessels in US military hands. Howard Beach cannot come close to the many Long Island waterfront communities on Long Island Sound, and inlets on the Atlantic Ocean. A single private marina in Flushing Bay, near Laguardia airport services more that 1,500 seagoing vessels annually. It is a small marina. A few years ago, a personal friend bought a custom made sailing yacht made in Argentina. Sailed it up the coast to that marina in Flushing Bay, himself and with his two sons, and wife. Upon docking in a slip, the Marina Master asked him to sign a form stating he carried no contraband. He signed. There was no inspection, and technically he did have contraband on board, fresh food bought in the Caribbean, and 20 cases of Argentinian wines. Because of it proximity to Laguardia airport, the marina is consider a vulnerable security risk on paper, and a secured site. Florida's coast line is still the major porous entrance for cocaine into the US.
Click to expand...

The Drug War is the same as the Terror War. "War is good business, and business is good." Your real choice. Do you want the War or the Drugs. Both are huge CASH flows. Stop the War, Legalize all drugs, The CASH price of drugs collapses because of the legality. The CASH cost of the War is eliminated. Two birds with one stone, eh?
/
 
Manc Skipper said:
How useless are the special forces if a simple wall defeats them? Asking for a friend.
Click to expand...

It's a mission thang. Special forces missions are not usually breaching walls.
 
DaveFagan said:
The Drug War is the same as the Terror War. "War is good business, and business is good." Your real choice. Do you want the War or the Drugs. Both are huge CASH flows. Stop the War, Legalize all drugs, The CASH price of drugs collapses because of the legality. The CASH cost of the War is eliminated. Two birds with one stone, eh?
/
Click to expand...

I've long been a proponent of decriminalization for all illicit drugs. The US could easily buy the world's annual opium production for a pittance compared to what we spend on interdiction and imprisonment, social services and so on. Give refined heroin or morphine to all registered addicts for free. Eliminate the profits, and no one will be seeking to create new addicts. A generation would be lost in the process, but future generations gained thereafter. Heroin addicts with maintenance supplies, can function in real jobs. Not operating heavy equipment, or driving for a living, but quite capable in many jobs.

Stop pharmaceutical companies from manufacturing more synthetic opioids than needed, and they won't be as severely abused. We can easily go right down the list. Prison guards will need another source for job security.
 
ObamacareFail said:
It's a mission thang. Special forces missions are not usually breaching walls.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, there's something to be said for breaching bordello walls. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom