Democrat Immigration Policy Hurts African Americans

blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

If you are a democrat, how does this piece make you feel? Do you disagree? Here are some parts from the broadcast (kinda long but easy to read):

rofessor CAROL SWAIN (Law, Vanderbilt University; Author, Debating Immigration): Thank you.

MARTIN: Cord, now you sight the case of a North Carolina poultry producer that went from having a workforce that was 80 percent immigrant, presumably immigrant Latino, to 70 percent African-American in a very short period of time. Now, how did that happen and why did that happen?

Mr. JEFFERSON: There is an Immigration and Customs Enforcement raid in October of 2008 that came in and found 300 undocumented workers at the Raeford Farms, Columbia Farms processing plant in Columbia, South Carolina. And Raeford Farms was presumably spooked by that as they had been hiring undocumented immigrants for all their plants. And they systematically began firing all their undocumented workers in within less than a year. What had been an 80 percent Latino production line became a 70 percent African-American production line.

MARTIN: Is this what gave you the idea?

Mr. JEFFERSON: What gave me the idea was seeing the unemployment rates skyrocket in this country, especially for American-Americans overall, but also African-American male unemployment is almost at 20 percent now. I mean, thats shocking.

MARTIN: Thats right. Im sure that the plant would argue that they werent hiring illegal immigrants. And if they were, they thought that their papers were in order and so forth. There are those who would argue that thats an isolated case. Youre making the broader argument that illegal immigration, a high rate of illegal immigration is disproportionately affecting African-Americans. Why do you think thats so?

Mr. JEFFERSON: I think that, unfortunately, African-Americans are disproportionately low skilled. And African-Americans are disproportionately low educated. And those are the jobs that illegal immigrants are most often taking. And so I think that African-Americans who are low skilled and low educated who are out looking for employment in this sort of economy, they are competing with illegal immigrants of which there are millions. And so, I think that thats why theyre disproportionately affected by this.

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123811962

So what do Democrats think? Harmful to their platform? I know there is that old mantra that immigrants aren’t taking the “good jobs.” Ultimately I think that translates into they aren’t taking MY predominately white middle class job. Low skill labor in factories like above seem to have competition. And that doesn’t bode well for the large numbers of low skill labor in the black communities.

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What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

blackjack50 said:
If you are a democrat, how does this piece make you feel? Do you disagree? Here are some parts from the broadcast (kinda long but easy to read):

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=123811962

So what do Democrats think? Harmful to their platform? I know there is that old mantra that immigrants aren’t taking the “good jobs.” Ultimately I think that translates into they aren’t taking MY predominately white middle class job. Low skill labor in factories like above seem to have competition. And that doesn’t bode well for the large numbers of low skill labor in the black communities.

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Was the poultry farm owned by a liberal?

Looking at voting demographics how many farmers that use illegals are owned by liberals and how many by conservatives?

Seems like a bunch of conservatives use illegal labor while voting for the party that is anti-illegal immigrant.

You will notice that no real "supply side" solution has been seriously implemented. And one must also wonder if that factory's competitors use illegals too. Or did they drop a dime for market share.

blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
Was the poultry farm owned by a liberal?

Looking at voting demographics how many farmers that use illegals are owned by liberals and how many by conservatives?

Seems like a bunch of conservatives use illegal labor while voting for the party that is anti-illegal immigrant.

You will notice that no real "supply side" solution has been seriously implemented. And one must also wonder if that factory's competitors use illegals too. Or did they drop a dime for market share.

:roll:

Most illegal labor does not occur on “conservative farms.” You can try and pawn the problem off and blame republicans, but that isn’t reality. It also doesn’t ANSWER the question. Did you notice that those farm jobs went to African Americans when they cleaned up their act?

Occupations of Unauthorized Immigrant Workers | Pew Research Center

In fact...as you see...mostly they are NOT on farms, but construction and service jobs. So you can continue to push for the “immigrants,” but it will be costing the African Americans voters their jobs.

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Fishking · Jan 16, 2018

blackjack50 said:
If you are a democrat, how does this piece make you feel? Do you disagree? Here are some parts from the broadcast (kinda long but easy to read):

So what do Democrats think? Harmful to their platform? I know there is that old mantra that immigrants aren’t taking the “good jobs.” Ultimately I think that translates into they aren’t taking MY predominately white middle class job. Low skill labor in factories like above seem to have competition. And that doesn’t bode well for the large numbers of low skill labor in the black communities.

It's been known for years that immigration, especially the rampant illegal immigration hurts African Americans more than any other group.

(Ignore the Trump part as that's a different subject)

What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
Was the poultry farm owned by a liberal?

Looking at voting demographics how many farmers that use illegals are owned by liberals and how many by conservatives?

Seems like a bunch of conservatives use illegal labor while voting for the party that is anti-illegal immigrant.

You will notice that no real "supply side" solution has been seriously implemented. And one must also wonder if that factory's competitors use illegals too. Or did they drop a dime for market share.

blackjack50 said:
:roll:

Most illegal labor does not occur on “conservative farms.” You can try and pawn the problem off and blame republicans, but that isn’t reality. It also doesn’t ANSWER the question. Did you notice that those farm jobs went to African Americans when they cleaned up their act?

Occupations of Unauthorized Immigrant Workers | Pew Research Center

In fact...as you see...mostly they are NOT on farms, but construction and service jobs. So you can continue to push for the “immigrants,” but it will be costing the African Americans voters their jobs.

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So let me get this straight.

You're cheering blacks getting jobs the illegals won't do?

Aren't those jobs beneath Americans?

Its really hard to keep the anti-immigrant rhetoric straight.

So do you have a breakdown of libera vs conservative illegal employers?

Most of the construction bosses I have worked for are conservative. Including ones I know who use illegals.

Hell, they're just outsourcing locally.

I always find it amusing that if a business gives your job to a deserate brown person HERE he's a dick, but if a business gives your job to a desperate brown person somewhere else he's a ****ing brilliant businessman. They both do it to make more money for themselves.

SirGareth · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
Was the poultry farm owned by a liberal?

Looking at voting demographics how many farmers that use illegals are owned by liberals and how many by conservatives?

Seems like a bunch of conservatives use illegal labor while voting for the party that is anti-illegal immigrant.

You will notice that no real "supply side" solution has been seriously implemented. And one must also wonder if that factory's competitors use illegals too. Or did they drop a dime for market share.

It would not be owned by a liberal. Poultry farms "produce" Liberals are poisoned by working for a living. Owners work sunup to midnight.

faithful_servant · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
Was the poultry farm owned by a liberal?

Looking at voting demographics how many farmers that use illegals are owned by liberals and how many by conservatives?

Seems like a bunch of conservatives use illegal labor while voting for the party that is anti-illegal immigrant.

You will notice that no real "supply side" solution has been seriously implemented. And one must also wonder if that factory's competitors use illegals too. Or did they drop a dime for market share.

This story isn't about who owned the company, but the policies pushed by the Dems. More illegal immigration equals less black employment. Less illegal immigration equals more black employment. If it's Dems. who support the black community, why is that they support policies that harm the black community???

blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
So let me get this straight.

You're cheering blacks getting jobs the illegals won't do?

Aren't those jobs beneath Americans?

Its really hard to keep the anti-immigrant rhetoric straight.

Straw man because you aren’t capable of discussing the topic without your partisan response I see. Why are you scared to actually have an open discussion on this? Is if because your opinions may have to come back from the party line a bit to actually be in reality? Why do you feel the need to assign views to me?

1) Yes. I am cheering LEGAL low skill American citizens getting jobs. And it isn’t because illegals “won’t” do them. It is because they cannot legally do them.

2) There is no such thing as a job BENEATH someone. If you are poor and have no options...it is on you to do the job you are capable of doing to provide for yourself and not be a burden to society.

3) Did you vote for Hillary? Are you a self avowed Democrat? You realize the position there has shifted as well right? Kinda interesting given the numbers of Hispanics going up above blacks. I wonder why?

Anyway. I’m pro legal immigration for jobs. That is what made America great. My family came here from Germany, Ireland, and Russia. I could care less where someone immigrates from as long as they do it legally and pay taxes accordingly.

So do you have a breakdown of libera vs conservative illegal employers?

Why would that matter? All you have is your opinion on the topic for one. It also is not the topic at hand. Which is that the Democrat policies on immigrant labor hurt African Americans.

Most of the construction bosses I have worked for are conservative. Including ones I know who use illegals.

Hell, they're just outsourcing locally.

This is more attempts to avoid answering the question...I guess you are scared to openly recognize that the Democrat policies on immigration would further supply this illegal labor that takes jobs from African Americans. Do you have something against blacks?

I always find it amusing that if a business gives your job to a deserate brown person HERE he's a dick, but if a business gives your job to a desperate brown person somewhere else he's a ****ing brilliant businessman. They both do it to make more money for themselves.

So you have a problem with brown people taking your job?

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blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

It is always odd to me that *some* Democrats will complain about these low skill jobs not being good enough. Never realize that these are frequently the only options in poor communities. The South Carolina incident in the OP is a good example of why having a more conservative mentality in local politics (on jobs) is a very good thing for low skill employees. It means there are options for jobs and an income. But what would I know? I only grew up in a community that desperately needed those jobs and frequently refused tax breaks and pushed them to the next county which saw huge fiscal gains as a result. Sigh.

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MrPeanut · Jan 16, 2018

I guess it depends on the Democrat. I think it is obvious that if companies have the ability to pay people less for low skilled labor they will. I don't think this will effectively undermine African American support for the Democratic party, but it is good ammo for Republicans.

blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

MrPeanut said:
I guess it depends on the Democrat. I think it is obvious that if companies have the ability to pay people less for low skilled labor they will. I don't think this will effectively undermine African American support for the Democratic party, but it is good ammo for Republicans.

Well like the above Democrat demonstrated...it is a quagmire issue because even if the fact is recognized...they will blame republicans (and businesses in general) for the actions of the ethically corrupt labor practices of a few. The reality is that a lot of these low skill jobs go wherever they get the cheapest low skill labor. There is a line. Outsourcing is expensive. And it is up to America and each state and county to compete to make sure they take care of their citizens.

That means taking some pro business stances once in a while. And the Democrats have not done a good job of that for the past 20 years or so. You are right though. The African American support for the Democratic party will never stop. It is too deeply entrenched at this point. And it is a “race” issue now. A social race issue. Even though the most important things should be jobs and education.

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MrPeanut · Jan 16, 2018

blackjack50 said:
Well like the above Democrat demonstrated...it is a quagmire issue because even if the fact is recognized...they will blame republicans (and businesses in general) for the actions of the ethically corrupt labor practices of a few. The reality is that a lot of these low skill jobs go wherever they get the cheapest low skill labor. There is a line. Outsourcing is expensive. And it is up to America and each state and county to compete to make sure they take care of their citizens.

That means taking some pro business stances once in a while. And the Democrats have not done a good job of that for the past 20 years or so. You are right though. The African American support for the Democratic party will never stop. It is too deeply entrenched at this point. And it is a “race” issue now. A social race issue. Even though the most important things should be jobs and education.

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I think that African American support has more to do with the fact that the Democratic party is the only one that even tries to speak to their issues. Trump made the biggest attempt, by a Republican, to appeal to African Americans that has happened in a while when he said, "What have you got to lose?" Unfortunately, that just isn't going to cut it. I'm going to have to disagree with you on the suggestion that Democrats haven't been pro business in the past 20 years. NAFTA was passed by Clinton, and the TPP was pushed hard by Obama. Those are extremely pro business positions. The ever increasing inequality in this country should be enough evidence that business is doing just fine.

What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

SirGareth said:
It would not be owned by a liberal. Poultry farms "produce" Liberals are poisoned by working for a living. Owners work sunup to midnight.

So you admit its conservatives hiring illegals.

Refreshing.

What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

faithful_servant said:
This story isn't about who owned the company, but the policies pushed by the Dems. More illegal immigration equals less black employment. Less illegal immigration equals more black employment. If it's Dems. who support the black community, why is that they support policies that harm the black community???

Nobody is forcing conseatives to hire illegals.

If nobody would hire them they wouldn't come here.

What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

blackjack50 said:
Straw man because you aren’t capable of discussing the topic without your partisan response I see. Why are you scared to actually have an open discussion on this? Is if because your opinions may have to come back from the party line a bit to actually be in reality? Why do you feel the need to assign views to me?

1) Yes. I am cheering LEGAL low skill American citizens getting jobs. And it isn’t because illegals “won’t” do them. It is because they cannot legally do them.

2) There is no such thing as a job BENEATH someone. If you are poor and have no options...it is on you to do the job you are capable of doing to provide for yourself and not be a burden to society.

3) Did you vote for Hillary? Are you a self avowed Democrat? You realize the position there has shifted as well right? Kinda interesting given the numbers of Hispanics going up above blacks. I wonder why?

Anyway. I’m pro legal immigration for jobs. That is what made America great. My family came here from Germany, Ireland, and Russia. I could care less where someone immigrates from as long as they do it legally and pay taxes accordingly.

Why would that matter? All you have is your opinion on the topic for one. It also is not the topic at hand. Which is that the Democrat policies on immigrant labor hurt African Americans.

This is more attempts to avoid answering the question...I guess you are scared to openly recognize that the Democrat policies on immigration would further supply this illegal labor that takes jobs from African Americans. Do you have something against blacks?

So you have a problem with brown people taking your job?

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I work with a bunch of brown people.

And you can't get around the fact that a lot of conservatives use illegal labor.

Which makes each and every one a hipocrite.

And proves its just scapegoating.

If they had this courage of their convictions they would suck it up and pay a fair wage which would attract Americans. They don't. They hire illegals and make excuses.

Deal with the demand and the supply will dry up.

faithful_servant · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
Nobody is forcing conseatives to hire illegals.

If nobody would hire them they wouldn't come here.

No one here except a handful of liberals has said anything about the political orientation of the people doing the hiring.

blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
Nobody is forcing conseatives to hire illegals.

If nobody would hire them they wouldn't come here.

So in your mind it is only conservatives who hire illegals?

Not a word about the liberal encouragement of illegals coming to America. So. What? It is ok for a liberal to hire them in those sanctuary cities?

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What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

faithful_servant said:
No one here except a handful of liberals has said anything about the political orientation of the people doing the hiring.

Y'all never do.

****s up your propaganda.

blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
I work with a bunch of brown people.

That doesn’t mean you like them. So what is your problem with brown people?

And you can't get around the fact that a lot of conservatives use illegal labor.

You can’t prove that. You just said it is a fact. Can you please show me some numbers for those who hire illegal labor? Like a breakdown of conservative vs Democrat?

I see you have to lie to avoid admitting that Democrats don’t like blacks.

Which makes each and every one a hipocrite.

You mean like complaining about how “conservatives hire illegal labor” and “conservatives have racist policies against blacks..."

But then of course encouraging illegal immigration which feeds illegal labor and hurts jobs for blacks.

And proves its just scapegoating.
If they had this courage of their convictions they would suck it up and pay a fair wage which would attract Americans. They don't. They hire illegals and make excuses.

Deal with the demand and the supply will dry up.

Lmao. So basically your whole schtick is to blame republicans for a DEMOCRAT policy that hurts blacks.

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What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

blackjack50 said:
So in your mind it is only conservatives who hire illegals?

Not a word about the liberal encouragement of illegals coming to America. So. What? It is ok for a liberal to hire them in those sanctuary cities?

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Never said that.

I've advocated before on this board for a $3000 a head fine for hiring illegals with a ten percent reward for reporting employers.

One or two folks get a $6000 fine for picking those guys up at home depot and nobody will do it anymore.

Bankrupt a couple farms and you'll get the same result.

Now what you got to say?

blackjack50 · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
Never said that.

I've advocated before on this board for a $3000 a head fine for hiring illegals with a ten percent reward for reporting employers.

One or two folks get a $6000 fine for picking those guys up at home depot and nobody will do it anymore.

Bankrupt a couple farms and you'll get the same result.

Now what you got to say?

That you are afraid to answer the question posted on the OP. No comment on why the Democrats have adopted a policy that harms blacks.

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What if...? · Jan 16, 2018

blackjack50 said:
That doesn’t mean you like them. So what is your problem with brown people?

You can’t prove that. You just said it is a fact. Can you please show me some numbers for those who hire illegal labor? Like a breakdown of conservative vs Democrat?

I see you have to lie to avoid admitting that Democrats don’t like blacks.

You mean like complaining about how “conservatives hire illegal labor” and “conservatives have racist policies against blacks..."

But then of course encouraging illegal immigration which feeds illegal labor and hurts jobs for blacks.

Lmao. So basically your whole schtick is to blame republicans for a DEMOCRAT policy that hurts blacks.

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Boy do you not know what you're talking about.

Not just about who I am but about the such next at hand.

Here's one article on the subject:

https://www.texastribune.org/2016/12/14/lawmakers-go-easy-employers-undocumented-workers/

Exactly what I'm talking about.

There's more. I doubt you want me to blast the thread with links.

There's a little thing called nuance.

You should consider considering it.

Kal'Stang · Jan 16, 2018

What if...? said:
So let me get this straight.

You're cheering blacks getting jobs the illegals won't do?

Aren't those jobs beneath Americans?

Its really hard to keep the anti-immigrant rhetoric straight.

So do you have a breakdown of libera vs conservative illegal employers?

Most of the construction bosses I have worked for are conservative. Including ones I know who use illegals.

Hell, they're just outsourcing locally.

I always find it amusing that if a business gives your job to a deserate brown person HERE he's a dick, but if a business gives your job to a desperate brown person somewhere else he's a ****ing brilliant businessman. They both do it to make more money for themselves.

You do realize that those are African AMERICANS right? Guess those aren't jobs that are "beneath Americans". I don't think you could have hurt the argument of "jobs American's won't do" any more than what you just did.

ttwtt78640 · Jan 16, 2018

faithful_servant said:
This story isn't about who owned the company, but the policies pushed by the Dems. More illegal immigration equals less black employment. Less illegal immigration equals more black employment. If it's Dems. who support the black community, why is that they support policies that harm the black community???

If you (demorats) are getting 95% of the black vote then (your?) immigration policy is working just fine.

faithful_servant · Jan 16, 2018

ttwtt78640 said:
If you (demorats) are getting 95% of the black vote then (your?) immigration policy is working just fine.

Dem. policy: Help create a problem and then provide a solution to it and claim to be hero's for those who you created the problem for. Immigration is classic example of this. The more immigration, the fewer jobs for poor Americans. The fewer jobs for poor Americans, the more need for public assistance. The more need for public assistance, the more the Dems. can vote for funding for assisting those who are poor and claim to the ones who are rescuing them from poverty (leaving out the part where they helped to create that poverty of course).

Democrat Immigration Policy Hurts African Americans

Sometimes wrong