Legal Vs Illegal

jaeger19 · Feb 9, 2018

Mycroft said:
Why would he have to go to Mexico if he has a green card?

To apply for citizenship.. if he has been here illegally for more than a year.. he has to leave the country for 10 years according to existing immigration law.

However, expect to be penalized for your illegal stay in the U.S. If you stayed illegally as an undocumented immigrant for six months or more, you must spend three years in your home country. If your illegal stay was for one year or more, the penalty is 10 years outside the U.S.

Mycroft · Feb 9, 2018

jaeger19 said:
To apply for citizenship.. if he has been here illegally for more than a year.. he has to leave the country for 10 years according to existing immigration law.

sigh...

Again, did you miss the part about the green card? If Congress gives him one...and gives him a path to citizenship (hopefully the same path that others have)...do you think he'll have to leave first?

Now...for sure...until Congress does something for the guy, he'll have to leave before he's allowed to come back, stay and maybe become a citizen. I guess you might say that sucks, but seriously...who's fault is it? The US's fault?

Frankly, I think the kid should be happy that Congress "might" end up doing something for him...but he doesn't have any right to "expect" them to do something for him.

If the kid is not a dreamer, well...he should probably start making plans for a big life change.

Exactice · Feb 9, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Which means they are ineligible for DACA. DACA started in 2012, So that means people that may have been here 70% over the age of 21 have been here for YEARS and only recently GOTTEN the protection of DACA, They are only criminals if THEY ARE CAUGHT, YES after they FACT they are NOT eligible, but up to this point people that should be DEPORTED not protected by DACA or have not been "caught" of a crime still fly under the Radar due to DACA protection.

Lets get this straight. you have no proof.. but hey.. it still must be happening? Yes, I do NOT have proof... but to assume that its not happening, you can assure me as a TAX payer that NONE Of the sorts are occurring?

Actually there is no "type of judgment". if you don't make enough money to qualify for federal taxes.. you don't pay federal income taxes. At any point in time about 45% of americans fall in this category. AND in some cases.. americans actually get a tax benefit.. in other words they have not paid income taxes.. but they get a tax credit paid to them. YEAH!!!! I get to use the Term, Moving the goal post.... Yes $9500 is the Annual salary that doesnt qualify for income taxes, THAT IS $4.50 an hour below the minimum wage (45% of Americans make less than $9500 a year?... so of course they dont pay taxes.......I dont even THINK DACA or any illegal is working for $4.50 in american under the table for that... So dont give me that they dont make enough.... BS..... AND YES there are people that make $8 an hour WELL above the $9500 a year minimum for taxes that DONT pay taxes.... If they are caught there are penalties and interest and garnished wages that do apply to them. Some times there is leniency sure but there is till laws.

Not true of DACA:

.

https://unitedwedream.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Taxes-DACA-What-do-I-need-to-know-Final.pdf

THIS IS those that have LEGAL JOBS..... 800,000 of that, 30% are kids - 560,000 working CLASS DACA recipients are ALL working legit W2 salary JOBS that both employee and employer are paying PROPER payroll taxes? You just said it yourself 45% of Americans Dont pay Taxes, So is it safe to Assume 45% of DACA dont pay taxes either......

In addition employers contribute social security etc for DACA workers. YEAH the ones you SAID you like, that FOLLOW the law, WE agree there are MANY employers abusing it....... Do you deny it?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/a-guide-to-read-about-daca-before-you-sound-racist_us_59af6b10e4b0d0c16bb528ab

Absolutely nothing since they are already paying into social security as is their employer etc.

Yes so all working class DACA recipients are W2 or 1099 legal taxing paying workers? Can you confirm this? As well as their employers paying proper payroll taxes?

Simply not true.. as I have provided the links that prove its not true.
Yes that comment is racist and bigot... but it is also looking at reality...that is NOT all perfect and peachy..... something you THINK it is.

....

the only reason that you think its devolved.. is because you keep making untrue statements about DACA.. and I keep providing the evidence that refutes those statement. See above.

Un true statments.... NONE of them are untrue... there IS nothing factual evidence to refute as there is NO legitimate data...... Also items that I do not have data or FACTS are stated as OPINIONS..... It is my right to have an opinion and look at the WHOLE program as a WHOLE, the full effects... NOT just amnesty as a facet..... Cost... Resources, immigration, Taxes, public services....

Its funny you make is sound like all DACA people are making $50,000 a year salary's and fully self sustainable. Im sure there are some and maybe many... BUT what about those that are NOT... what about those that are a drain on the society. WHICH you seem to think is FACT that NONE are.......how you come to that number is amazing to me too.

jaeger19 · Feb 9, 2018

Barnacle said:
Maybe that friend of your son needs to have a serious word with his illegal parents who raised him here without a SS number.

He was shocked. HE had no idea until he went for his drivers permit and his parents had to tell him he had no documentation and was not a citizen.

Of course, as he told my son, he understood why his parents did what they did because even illegal.. he has a much better life here in America, than he would have had where his parents were from. They fled the drug cartels that basically controlled the area of mexico that they lived in.

Exactice · Feb 9, 2018

Mycroft said:
sigh...

Again, did you miss the part about the green card? If Congress gives him one...and gives him a path to citizenship (hopefully the same path that others have)...do you think he'll have to leave first?

Now...for sure...until Congress does something for the guy, he'll have to leave before he's allowed to come back, stay and maybe become a citizen. I guess you might say that sucks, but seriously...who's fault is it? The US's fault?

Frankly, I think the kid should be happy that Congress "might" end up doing something for him...but he doesn't have any right to "expect" them to do something for him.

If the kid is not a dreamer, well...he should probably start making plans for a big life change.

He likes to rehash only the negative parts of any comment.

Its funny I conceded about 4 pages ago... that I am turning a new leaf about DACA. I actually do want to see a resolution and that those that deserve it, qualify for it, have Amnesty and a chance to obtain citizenship. I used my wife as a rebuttal, But Jaeger made some good comments that I can accept.

I just do NOT accept the chain migration attached to it. As the Nucleus or the parents are the reason for this mess they violated the law. So they should NOT have an option. Other than that the DACA has a choice..... accept the offer for them and leave the parents... Or they can leave WITH the parents....

Secondly. understand the economic effects that MAY take place....... I have conceded a lot but Jaeger just wants to call me a racist and bigot, especially when I point to concerns LIKE economics... Taxes. Payrolls....Employers vs employees... I bring up my opinions and concerns, and he just calls me a racist..... I just dont get it, we can have a legitimate non hostile conversation...... but its always...... racist because I said golden ticket, or bigot because I said they use public services and dont pay taxes that fund these services. I am NOT wrong... but I am not "ultimately" correct as well..... I get that....

Barnacle · Feb 9, 2018

jaeger19 said:
He was shocked. HE had no idea until he went for his drivers permit and his parents had to tell him he had no documentation and was not a citizen.

Of course, as he told my son, he understood why his parents did what they did because even illegal.. he has a much better life here in America, than he would have had where his parents were from. They fled the drug cartels that basically controlled the area of mexico that they lived in.

Must have been the whole of Mexico if they couldn't find another area there ... except to illegally enter another country.

jaeger19 · Feb 9, 2018

DACA started in 2012, So that means people that may have been here 70% over the age of 21 have been here for YEARS and only recently GOTTEN the protection of DACA, They are only criminals if THEY ARE CAUGHT, YES after they FACT they are NOT eligible, but up to this point people that should be DEPORTED not protected by DACA or have not been "caught" of a crime still fly under the Radar due to DACA protection

Jeez man.. now you are back to claiming that they are still criminals just haven't been caught. Tell you what..go find the percentage of people that were given DACA protection.. and the percentage of former DACA people that were eventually caught and deported or convicted and imprisoned of a violent crime.

Yes, I do NOT have proof... but to assume that its not happening, you can assure me as a TAX payer that NONE Of the sorts are occurring?

Can you assure me as a tax payer that it IS happening at a rate that's significant?

YEAH!!!! I get to use the Term, Moving the goal post

.... I never moved the goal posts. DACA recipients are required by law to file a tax report. If they don't pay federal income taxes.. its because their income is too low, just like American citizens that don't pay taxes.

Yes $9500 is the Annual salary that doesnt qualify for income taxes,

Actually that number is likely the number you found that means you don't have to FILE income tax return. The actual amount on whether you have to pay income taxes depends on the deductions etc that you have etc. So someone who have an income above that might file income taxes.. but still have no tax liability.

Secondly.. yes,.. lost of college students and high school students don't make very much in ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME... to have to pay taxes. I know I didn;t through most of my schooling years.

YEAH the ones you SAID you like, that FOLLOW the law, WE agree there are MANY employers abusing it....... Do you deny it?

Sir.. that's what DACA people are doing. is following the law.

Now.. employers might be abusing UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS.. that are not eligible for DACA or are eligible but have not signed up for DACA protection... BUT THAT NOT DACA recipients.

Yes so all working class DACA recipients are W2 or 1099 legal taxing paying workers? Can you confirm this? As well as their employers paying proper payroll taxes?

YES.. in fact.. there a plenty of people that ARE NOT DACA recipients but are actually here illegally and yet.. still file tax returns and pay taxes!!!,

The IRS actually has a special number they issue them so they can collect their taxes from them and their employers.

In order to file for a federal tax return, undocumented immigrants need to apply for an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) from the Internal Revenue Service.

The IRS issues these numbers to individuals who must file taxes, but don't possess or aren't eligible for a Social Security number. ITINs are issued to people regardless of their immigration status. An ITIN doesn't give a person legal work authorization and doesn't provide eligibility for Social Security benefits, according to the IRS website.

Why undocumented immigrants pay taxes - Apr. 19, 2017

It is my right to have an opinion and look at the WHOLE program as a WHOLE, the full effects... NOT just amnesty as a facet..... Cost... Resources, immigration, Taxes, public services....

Sure its your opinion. Your opinion however has been proven to not be based on fact. Don't start slinging around that I have not been providing data and factual evidence that proves you wrong. I have repeatedly and just did again.

BUT what about those that are NOT... what about those that are a drain on the society. WHICH you seem to think is FACT that NONE are.......how you come to that number is amazing to me too.

Right.. you mean the number that you have no proof exist.. have no numbers to show.. no evidence of how many.

Meanwhile.. I have the facts that 1. You have to file taxes if you are in DACA.

Illegal immigrants and not just DACA pay federal income taxes

Illegal immigrants work at a rate that's higher than citizens

DACA recipients do not qualify for most federal welfare programs, nor do illegal immigrants in general.

I have provided a multitude of links and evidence that show such.. and what do you have? Nothing.

jaeger19 · Feb 9, 2018

Barnacle said:
Must have been the whole of Mexico if they couldn't find another area there ... except to illegally enter another country.

The drug cartels have a long reach in mexico.

Exactice · Feb 9, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Jeez man.. now you are back to claiming that they are still criminals just haven't been caught. Tell you what..go find the percentage of people that were given DACA protection.. and the percentage of former DACA people that were ev
[/COLOR]

2,139 DACA Recipients Convicted or Accused of Crimes Against Americans - Breitbart
2,139 DACA Recipients Convicted or Accused of Crimes Against Americans

Feds: 30% surge in illegals losing DACA freedom for crimes, gang violence
30% surge in illegals losing DACA freedom for crimes, gang violence

More Than 500 Criminal Ex-DACA Recipients 'At Large,' Says Immigration Expert
More Than 500 Criminal Ex-DACA Recipients ‘At Large,’ Says Immigration Expert

Not all... not majority... but they are in there..... to say they are NOT is being ignorant.

Can you assure me as a tax payer that it IS happening at a rate that's significant? Oh again moving the Goal post, Now it has to be significant??? Why a crime is a crime is a crime... not it has to be justified by significance...

.... I never moved the goal posts

YES if they are following the LAW, So you are saying again ALL DACA workers are working W2/1099 NONE are working under the table or cash jobs?

Actually that number is likely the number you found that means you don't have to FILE income tax return. The actual amount on whether you have to pay income taxes depends on the deductions etc that you have etc. So someone who have an income above that might file income taxes.. but still have no tax liability. I understand this, That is why I gave you the 2 break outs 30% under 21 years old 70% that are over. So meaning a GOOD percentage are Hard Workers making incomes that above poverty to survive. So to say the make less or deduct more so they dont pay taxes.... would LOVE to see actual STATS, I DO NOT have it so I can only speculate and give my OPINION...... Its not a KNOCK on them its NOT being racist, its making a statement based on the information I am deducing. WRONG or RIGHT I am evaluating....

Sir.. that's what DACA people are doing. is following the law. YES!! I 100% agree with you MOST are and MOST Are trying, THAT is WHY I am NOW I agree with you that DACA people SHOJLD have a chance.

Now.. employers might be abusing UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS.. that are not eligible for DACA or are eligible but have not signed up for DACA protection... BUT THAT NOT DACA recipients. I dont think you can prove that......and honestly I dont expect you to prove that.... But just based on "cost" of living..... it takes about $8.00 per hour.... to have food on the table and a roof over your head.... So undocumented works not eligible sure! I would assume the same FOR eligible as well, but again this is assumptions.

YES.. in fact.. there a plenty of people that ARE NOT DACA recipients but a Really? How do you do that without a Social Security Number? Thats news to me? Im going to have to Research that *EDIT* W[B]OW thanks I learned something new.....[/B]. Im reading more about it, BUT damn I stand corrected... that is positive news on my part! Outstanding

Sure its your opinion. Your opinion however has been proven to not be based on fact. Don't start slinging around that I have not been providing data and factual evidence that proves you wrong. I have repeatedly and just did again. Im not slinging around that you have NOT provided data, I said you keep accusing me of being racist and a bigot? My Opinion is JUST that it does NOT have to be based on FACTS its my personal opinion right or wrong factual or not, I am making my opinions based on the information I receive. You have PROVIDE MUCH info, and I have tried to ask more questions to clarify the stance. BUT you have called me Racist and a bigot on numerous occasions up to this point Which is false and a slander to my discussion and myself which is not fair, I have never called you a name once.

Exactice · Feb 9, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Right.. you mean the number that you have no proof exist.. have no numbers to show.. no evidence of how many.

Meanwhile.. I have the facts that 1. You have to file taxes if you are in DACA. You dont "have to" LOL but many do now as I see its good for the immigration judge.... but it does not mean ALL are doing so. I have no facts.... but I just dont buy it that ALL are paying taxes...

Illegal immigrants and not just DACA pay federal income taxes Got it! did some reading and your post and I concede, YET again it does not MEAN all are doing so...again BACK to my racist Bad Apple point......

Illegal immigrants work at a rate that's higher than citizens We discussed this.... many of times...

DACA recipients do not qualify for most federal welfare programs, nor do illegal immigrants in general. We discussed this.........does not mean ER is not helping them which is HUGE amounts of cost nor are they finding ways to circumvent the public systems which even American Citizens are doing and guilty of.

I have provided a multitude of links and evidence that show such.. and what do you have? Nothing.

Yes you HAVE provided multiple links, I have read again... I have agreed on Much.... yet you bring up many of the same topics Like Criminals when I conceded that they are NOT all criminals. I understand now better your TAX points. But I do not agree and this is my opinion that they are all paying the same way and or in equal amounts as an american citizen per say.

Chain migration is still a no go in my book.... period.... Parents Violated the law, NO go, DACA recipients are good to go though... again I think we agreed on this.

So honestly NOT sure what your POINT to arguing and calling me a racist is. I am FOR a resolution for the DACA recipients. What is your Angle? You just want to call me and make me a racist?

jaeger19 · Feb 12, 2018

Oh again moving the Goal post, Now it has to be significant??? Why a crime is a crime is a crime... not it has to be justified by significance...

Yes.. and that makes sense. I don't think we have to spend billions of dollars to enforce a law that say 2 people break a year... do you? That's why you have to look at significance.

YES if they are following the LAW, So you are saying again ALL DACA workers are working W2/1099 NONE are working under the table or cash jobs?

to qualify for DACA yes. In fact. it would be the REASON to come out of the shadows to apply for DACA.
Seriously you don't seem to understand how illogical your premise is. So according to you.. you have illegal immigrants.. that COULD sign up for DACA... but they are working illegally... so instead of continuing to work illegally under the table.. with almost zero chance of getting caught. You seem to think that these illegal immigrants will come out of the shadows and apply for DACA with all the requirements.. and oversight and exposure (now the government knows where they work and live).., and yet they will continue to work under the table?

That's using the same flawed logic that criminals who plan to commit a crime with their firearm.. will decide to register their firearm with the police... :doh

Its not a KNOCK on them its NOT being racist, its making a statement based on the information I am deducing. WRONG or RIGHT I am evaluating....

Of course you meant it as a knock on them. and you were again making assumptions that were not based on the facts.

I dont think you can prove that......and honestly I dont expect you to prove that....

No need.. its common sense. Once a person signs of for DACA.. they are now subject to a level of scrutiny that makes it very hard for an employer to abuse those workers.. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW "DOCUMENTED". The government knows who they are.. who they work for .. expects them to file a tax return etc.

Really? How do you do that without a Social Security Number? Thats news to me? Im going to have to Research that *EDIT* WOW thanks I learned something new...... Im reading more about it, BUT damn I stand corrected... that is positive news on my part! Outstanding

Because the IRS will issue you a special number.. so that you can file taxes under that number.. even though you are still illegal. the reason is that the immigration system is FUBAR.. that you have people that should have been granted citizenship so long ago.. that they have outstayed their visas etc.. yet are married to US citizens etc.. so they have had to make the choice whether to stay and continue to support their children.. or leave their kids. so they end up staying illegally. BUT since they WANT to be citizens.. they still pay their taxes etc using the tax id number the IRS issues to them.. so they get credit when they finally do become citizens. ITs a mess.

Im not slinging around that you have NOT provided data, I

Now now.. be honest.

jaeger19 · Feb 12, 2018

Exactice said:
Yes you HAVE provided multiple links, I have read again... I have agreed on Much.... yet you bring up many of the same topics Like Criminals when I conceded that they are NOT all criminals. ?

That's just lip service on your part. Now you are moving to the goal posts to "not all criminals".. as if the majority are criminals.

So honestly NOT sure what your POINT to arguing and calling me a racist is.

to point out to you that the reason for many of your opinions are racism and bias.. and not on the facts.

Take a step back and look at your arguments. Now.. how many times have you been proven wrong about DACA/taxes/working, welfare/criminals etc? A LOT right?

Now.. so where did your head get filled with these wrong impressions? Well from people that have a racist agenda... they are pushing these untruthful statements. right up to our president.. who doesn't even seem to understand how immigration works.

Now.. I would give you a break that you are just getting information from racist/biased sources. BUT.. when you persist in those arguments.. despite being proven that you are wrong? That's when the bias and racism show through.

Ask yourself this.. you have continually admitted being wrong about a number of things.. and good for you. So why aren;t you questioning the sources of all that bad information? To me.. it appears that you WANT to believe those inaccurate sources.. and that's because on some level.. you identify with their biases/racist but inaccurate messages.

Exactice · Feb 12, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Yes.. and that makes sense

Now now.. be honest.

Yes you know that only 2 are breaking laws per you, I have no idea nor do you...... But again, sure I can Agree its not significant, .....yet....

I UNDERSTAND, how they legally apply for DACA. The problem is, WE DO NOT KNOW or Validate if they are criminals UNLESS they are caught for being a criminal. How many criminals LIVE in our society YET are NOT actually or charged to be a criminal. Again... My point is, there "WERE" DACA recipients that were later caught for a crime and some serious crimes at that.... I did give you 3 links above, to list the potential STATS of crime.... It may NOT be significant enough for you but I surely would NOT want to be on the receiving end of a crime.

Here is a simple statement, is a leak in the roof..... you let it go long enough and it can cause greater damage. If you address the DAMAGE. it doesnt fix the cause. THE CAUSE was the Leak in the roof.

The CAUSE is the abuse of Illegal Immigration. Its NOT Racist to address it. Its being realistic to address it.

As you stated..... about "so instead of continuing to work illegally under the table.. with almost zero chance of getting caught." You enable them to remain in the shadows. And yes.... Many people Legal or Illegal work under the table.... it seems you thin NO ONE does wrong... I guess you like in a very straight forward society...... I guess I see what really happens, in rural, city poverty levels. People DO whatever it takes to make ends meet....

As for Knock take it for what it is..... you want to claim racism, thats on you..... Inflammatory, Derogatory, Ignorant, Whatevers... "Sticks and Stones" I will continue to collect data, and make my own judgement.... Sad because there are REAL Racist out there..... to call me one, that actually comes day in and day out to read and get better info...... as a racist... would hate to what you would do to an actual racist

LOL.. NO Need? We are American Citizens, The Government Knows all about US we are FULLY registered born and raised and we DO NOT know the abuses that our OWN American Citizens do, I guarantee that the ABUSE we as Americans do OUT way illegals and DACA at that. I can openly admit that. From Tax evasions, Abuse of Deductions, Cash Jobs, Employer/Employee abuse. AND these are all LEGAL Citizens..... So to act like We are better than Illegals, or Illegals and Citizens NEVER commit or abuse crimes equally is just a joke......

Yes! Thank you! I had no IDEA, again I stand Corrected, Learned something new. Many new options that I think is a step, Makes sense.... they pay taxes so the day they HIT the immigration judge it makes them look better. I get it. The funny part is, if we were to ENFORCE our Laws, would the NOT be the easiest Target? To catch and Deport? Kinda Hypocritical? I dont get then? What have laws? BUT again.... Thank you!.

Be honest? Right back at you.... I have never called you a name, I have never discredited your links or POST... I have never attacked you personally... yet you have personally attacked me.... and All I am doing his coming on a website to better educate myself...... look in the mirror.......

Exactice · Feb 12, 2018

jaeger19 said:
That's just lip service on your part. Now you are moving to the goal posts to "not all criminals".. as if the majority are criminals.

to point out to you that the reason for many of your opinions are racism and bias.. and not on the facts.

Take a step back and look at your arguments. Now.. how many times have you been proven wrong about DACA/taxes/working, welfare/criminals etc? A LOT right?

Now.. so where did your head get filled with these wrong impressions? Well from people that have a racist agenda... they are pushing these untruthful statements. right up to our president.. who doesn't even seem to understand how immigration works.

Now.. I would give you a break that you are just getting information from racist/biased sources. BUT.. when you persist in those arguments.. despite being proven that you are wrong? That's when the bias and racism show through.

Ask yourself this.. you have continually admitted being wrong about a number of things.. and good for you. So why aren;t you questioning the sources of all that bad information? To me.. it appears that you WANT to believe those inaccurate sources.. and that's because on some level.. you identify with their biases/racist but inaccurate messages.

Call it what you want...I am NOT the smartest person, I am NOT the most well educated person, But I try to be as fair and equal balanced as Possible. I could be "prejudice" and NOT even come here to see another view. I could be cold and not care what you say and tell you to F off and you are wrong. I go into many other portions of this site to round out my views.... Yet....when you are right and yes, you are right... you just want to rub it in my face and call me racist..... thats fine, if thats what makes you feel good.. Go for it......

I will honestly say though, its people like you that TURN others off to expanding their mind.... Its sad...... If you met me in person on the street I think you would HAVE a different view. But your ego and your attitude detracts from your validity on in your post. I see your points, I see your view and I respect it. But its like you want to to force your views ONLY and when you are right you want to jump up and down and say YEAH Im right you are wrong.... You know being HUMBLE is a a great trait to have....

In any case.... Yes, I may be getting my sources from biased places... But I also have had experience as WELL... that have made my views the way they are. BUT its also the honesty of my ego that leads me to sites like this, to QUESTION if my biased views or experiences are VALID... Some are..... some are not...... But what really is disappointing. Is coming across an educated person like yourself, with a strong opposing view.... taking credible info from you....... re aligning my own personal thoughts and Get called a racist and prejudice..... That to me is MORE disgusting, than the TOPIC....

We bask in the freedoms that we enjoy now, Yet as American Citizens, it seems you take greater pride, in defaming someone rather than trying to work together....

Honestly.... I am tired, disappointed and feel I have taken enough of your abuse......

I wish you and your family prosperity and good health.... take care.......

jaeger19 · Feb 13, 2018

Exactice said:
Call it what you want...I am NOT the smartest person, I am NOT the most well educated person, But I try to be as fair and equal balanced as Possible. I could be "prejudice" and NOT even come here to see another view. I could be cold and not care what you say and tell you to F off and you are wrong. I go into many other portions of this site to round out my views.... Yet....when you are right and yes, you are right... you just want to rub it in my face and call me racist..... thats fine, if thats what makes you feel good.. Go for it......
.......

Blah blah blah. I have no interest in rubbing anything into your face. There is no ego trip for me. All I have done.. is show you that your positions are based on bias, prejudice and racism. They ARE NOT BASED ON FACT. And the fact that you cling to those prejudices.. despite having the facts shown to you.. well.. that's on you.. that has nothing to do with me. That is not abuse.. it is what it is.

Good luck to you.. I hope that you see your positions for what they really are.. and in addition.. see and correct the source of those positions.

Take care.

Exactice · Feb 13, 2018

jaeger19 said:
Blah blah blah. I have no interest in rubbing anything into your face. There is no ego trip for me. All I have done.. is show you that your positions are based on bias, prejudice and racism. They ARE NOT BASED ON FACT. And the fact that you cling to those prejudices.. despite having the facts shown to you.. well.. that's on you.. that has nothing to do with me. That is not abuse.. it is what it is.

Good luck to you.. I hope that you see your positions for what they really are.. and in addition.. see and correct the source of those positions.

Take care.

LOL....

" All I have done.. is show you that your positions are based on bias, prejudice and racism. They ARE NOT BASED ON FACT."

Actually...... Its funny... how the conversation changed, I actually asked a very simple question from the beginning. Illegal vs Legal..... pretty straight forward.

Then it moved to DACA that was a "Grey" area.... that I have minimal knowledge and took the time to understand. I asked questions...... I dont see my questions as Racist or Prejudice... Funny you say that.

rac·ism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Did I mention a race and do you know what race I am? and have I ever indicated I was superior? LOL..... so racist mmm no...

Lets try prejudice

prej·u·dice - preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. Well my EXPERIENCE of Legal Migration and actually filling out paper work is ACTUAL experience. Let me ask you Jaeger have you GONE through ANY actual type of MIGRATION process at all?

OK so that doesnt work

What about BIAS

bi·as - prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

Ill give you this, as Yes, per my experience of LEGAL migration and Illegal Migration, "Usually in a way "considered" it is considered to be unfair.

Your inflammatory remarks along with your BLAH BLAH BLAH remark shows your character along with your immaturity to handle opposing views.... Along with the inability to control your personal emotions yes... your ego..... Again I respected you ALL the way up to that point..... at this point, while my respect means little to you you have absolutely none of mine.

I HOPE you learn something... that because of your attitude...I think you lose all validity in your arguments and more so..... If you were to ever lobby for something, Just out of SPITE.. I would argue against you just because you are being a jerk... Yes.... first inflammatory remark you are being a jerk...

Dont normally use a block list... but there is always a first..... I would rather step back then get into a useless pissing contest.

PIPEWRENCH · Feb 13, 2018

disneydude said:
There is so much corruption in the immigration system. It amounts to as you yourself put it....those who can pay to go through the process get in...those without the means to buy a spot don't.

Sorry but rewarding law abiding people is stupid. Rewarding people who circumvent our laws and enter the country illegally is politically correct and the right thing to do. Securing our border is stupid and everyone with a fence knows they are a waste of money and do not work. Why should the people of this country have any say in who comes into our country. They act as if this country belongs to them when we all know it belongs to people entering illegally. Sorry but we do not want law abiding people who are willing to follow are laws. Give us your crooks and your criminals and especially people with no respect for us or our laws. Yes this is how sick we have become.

jaeger19 · Feb 13, 2018

Exactice said:
LOL....

" All I have done.. is show you that your positions are based on bias, prejudice and racism. They ARE NOT BASED ON FACT."

Actually...... Its funny... how the conversation changed, I actually asked a very simple question from the beginning. Illegal vs Legal..... pretty straight forward.

Then it moved to DACA that was a "Grey" area.... that I have minimal knowledge and took the time to understand. I asked questions...... I dont see my questions as Racist or Prejudice... Funny you say that.

rac·ism - prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Did I mention a race and do you know what race I am? and have I ever indicated I was superior? LOL..... so racist mmm no...

Lets try prejudice

prej·u·dice - preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience. Well my EXPERIENCE of Legal Migration and actually filling out paper work is ACTUAL experience. Let me ask you Jaeger have you GONE through ANY actual type of MIGRATION process at all?

OK so that doesnt work

What about BIAS

bi·as - prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair.

Ill give you this, as Yes, per my experience of LEGAL migration and Illegal Migration, "Usually in a way "considered" it is considered to be unfair.

Your inflammatory remarks along with your BLAH BLAH BLAH remark shows your character along with your immaturity to handle opposing views.... Along with the inability to control your personal emotions yes... your ego..... Again I respected you ALL the way up to that point..... at this point, while my respect means little to you you have absolutely none of mine.

I HOPE you learn something... that because of your attitude...I think you lose all validity in your arguments and more so..... If you were to ever lobby for something, Just out of SPITE.. I would argue against you just because you are being a jerk... Yes.... first inflammatory remark you are being a jerk...

Just to point out.. your post is exactly what people who know they are wrong.. do when confronted with the truth. Attack the person and not the positions.

You talk character? You just stated that regardless of whether my position was the correct one.. you would just argue against it!

But I will leave you with a few thoughts about racism.

Racism is not just what YOU defined it as.

A study showed that if a person with a black sounding name, and a person with a white sounding name.. applied for jobs using THE SAME RESUME.. except for the name.

the person with the white sounding name was more likely to get a call back. Significantly more likely to get a call back.

that's racism. But what.. where is statement of superiority, or the word "race"?. Employers did not use the word superior, the did not use the word race... they simply were significantly more likely to call back a person with a white sounding name than a black sounding name. That's an expression of racism.

Probably.. those employers didn't even consciously KNOW they were doing it. IF we talked to them about it.. they would probably swear on a stack of bibles.. that they were not racist nor held racist beliefs. That's how insidious and pervasive racism can be. Especially when it gets expressed in our laws, in our judicial system, in our economy.

Racism isn't just wearing a Nazi flag, and spouting off that Jews/blacks are inferior. Its also in how without realizing it.. you are making judgements based on race/color/creed etc. The usual way to tell, is that you continue to hold those beliefs.. EVEN AFTER YOU FIND OUT THEY ARE BASED ON FALSE/BIASED INFORMATION

By the way.. you could be a minority.. that doesn't mean you can;t hold racist beliefs/biases

After reading the experiment with black sounding names and white sounding names. My company did an internal audit and found out that we had some issues with our own hiring practices. Now we look at resumes without ANY identifying marks name, or address. and only after a decision has been made do we know the name of the person.

Because I understand that bias is insidious. If I see the name Tonya Fillmore.. I get a certain image in my head based on my experience.

If I see the name Shawnique Jones.. I get another image in my head based on my experience.

jaeger19 · Feb 13, 2018

PIPEWRENCH said:
Sorry but rewarding law abiding people is stupid. Rewarding people who circumvent our laws and enter the country illegally is politically correct and the right thing to do. Securing our border is stupid and everyone with a fence knows they are a waste of money and do not work. Why should the people of this country have any say in who comes into our country. They act as if this country belongs to them when we all know it belongs to people entering illegally. Sorry but we do not want law abiding people who are willing to follow are laws. Give us your crooks and your criminals and especially people with no respect for us or our laws. Yes this is how sick we have become.

interesting rant.

I notice you didn;t say anything about the people that HIRE these folks illegally.. which is by the large the sole reason illegal immigrants come.. here.. for jobs.

that's how ridiculous we have become. We know that people come to this country to work.. most come here LEGALLY and then choose to stay illegally. Because employers are willing to hire them. And while our government spouts about "walls and fences".. that these people have already come in legally. Our government says NOTHING about the reason they are here in the first place. which is that they can get employed.

Lets see.. the hotel industry is a big employer of "unauthorized immigrants"... hmmmm

PIPEWRENCH · Feb 13, 2018

jaeger19 said:
interesting rant.

I notice you didn;t say anything about the people that HIRE these folks illegally.. which is by the large the sole reason illegal immigrants come.. here.. for jobs.

that's how ridiculous we have become. We know that people come to this country to work.. most come here LEGALLY and then choose to stay illegally. Because employers are willing to hire them. And while our government spouts about "walls and fences".. that these people have already come in legally. Our government says NOTHING about the reason they are here in the first place. which is that they can get employed.

Lets see.. the hotel industry is a big employer of "unauthorized immigrants"... hmmmm

Hire them? You mean that exploit them. Such as the farmers out west or the Hollywood stars. Who pay them less than minimum wage, work them long hours without overtime, pay them cash to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, in unsafe working conditions, and using them to get around paying legitimate people of this country a fair and legal wage. No let's not let those democrats off the hook either.

jaeger19 · Feb 13, 2018

PIPEWRENCH said:
Hire them? You mean that exploit them. Such as the farmers out west or the Hollywood stars. Who pay them less than minimum wage, work them long hours without overtime, pay them cash to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, in unsafe working conditions, and using them to get around paying legitimate people of this country a fair and legal wage. No let's not let those democrats off the hook either.

Actually, the farmers out west doing that are republican. In fact that's the irony here. Most of the folks doing the hiring of these illegal immigrants are mostly republicans.

disneydude · Feb 14, 2018

PIPEWRENCH said:
Sorry but rewarding law abiding people is stupid. Rewarding people who circumvent our laws and enter the country illegally is politically correct and the right thing to do. Securing our border is stupid and everyone with a fence knows they are a waste of money and do not work. Why should the people of this country have any say in who comes into our country. They act as if this country belongs to them when we all know it belongs to people entering illegally. Sorry but we do not want law abiding people who are willing to follow are laws. Give us your crooks and your criminals and especially people with no respect for us or our laws. Yes this is how sick we have become.

riiiiight....because Mexico is only sending their rapists and crooks. You're such a good trumpette.

Legal Vs Illegal

Genius is where you find it.