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'Documented Citizens' wanted for Kidnapping and attempted Murder

MrWonka

MrWonka

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Location
Charleston, SC
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Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
MrWonka said:
Man, woman wanted for kidnapping, attempted murder on the run in New York | New York's PIX11 / WPIX-TV

Two legal citizen's of the United States of America are wanted for kidnapping and attempted murder.

Who knows how many these people have killed. 1/3 of homicides go unsolved for just this reason; someone kills people in one state, moves across country, and may live in several states in a short period of time.
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Home grown problems (like this) are our concern. We have laws to deal with them.

Foreigners here illegally who do such things are exemplifying one of the many problems with open-border idealism flouting immigration law.

Apples and Oranges. Get it? :coffeepap:
 
Captain Adverse said:
Home grown problems (like this) are our concern. We have laws to deal with them.
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If the laws we have deal with our own citizens so well why can't the exact same laws be applied to non-citizens? I didn't realize that kidnapping and murder charges could only be filed against citizens? Are you sure that's the case?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Apples and Oranges. Get it?
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No, whether they are citizens or not they are both people so they are the same. You're inventing a legal distinction that doesn't need to exist to try and make them different, but just because you start calling an orange an apple doesn't make it so.
 
MrWonka said:
If the laws we have deal with our own citizens so well why can't the exact same laws be applied to non-citizens? I didn't realize that kidnapping and murder charges could only be filed against citizens? Are you sure that's the case?
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:roll:

Yes, our criminal laws apply to citizens and non-citizens.

The point is that non-citizens who are here illegally would not be our problem if we enforced current immigration law, and applied new restrictions to limit who can qualify for entrance, residence, and ultimately citizenship.

Basically, illegals should not be here to break our laws. We have enough to deal with from citizens without that added burden.

MrWonka said:
No, whether they are citizens or not they are both people so they are the same. You're inventing a legal distinction that doesn't need to exist to try and make them different, but just because you start calling an orange an apple doesn't make it so.
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APPLES (Citizens familiar with and expected to obey or be punished) and ORANGES (Illegals who are already breaking the law by residing here).
 
MrWonka said:
No, whether they are citizens or not they are both people so they are the same. You're inventing a legal distinction that doesn't need to exist to try and make them different, but just because you start calling an orange an apple doesn't make it so.
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Not so. The legal distinction is clear. One criminal/murder is documented and is our problem, the other is a criminal from the day they walked up on the north bank with wet hair.
 
MrWonka said:
If the laws we have deal with our own citizens so well why can't the exact same laws be applied to non-citizens? I didn't realize that kidnapping and murder charges could only be filed against citizens? Are you sure that's the case?
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If you listen carefully, the anti-immigrant forces ARE making that argument.
 
The Resister said:
If you listen carefully, the anti-immigrant forces ARE making that argument.
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No, they are not. They are suggesting we need more stringent punishments or potentially even null punishments for immigrants. If someone commits murder, I want them to go to jail for the same amount of time whether they are an immigrant or a natural born citizen. If they ever get out of prison, I don't really care where they go because that should only happen if they have been rehabilitated, payed their debt to society, and are not perceived to be a real danger anymore.
 
MrWonka said:
No, they are not. They are suggesting we need more stringent punishments or potentially even null punishments for immigrants. If someone commits murder, I want them to go to jail for the same amount of time whether they are an immigrant or a natural born citizen. If they ever get out of prison, I don't really care where they go because that should only happen if they have been rehabilitated, payed their debt to society, and are not perceived to be a real danger anymore.
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That's an oranges and apples response. The anti-immigrant forces have argued, for years, that a child born in the United States to undocumented parents is not a U.S. citizen because the undocumented people are not "within the jurisdiction" per the 14th Amendment. IF that were true (and I assure you that it most assuredly is not), if an undocumented immigrant were to be brought into court for a crime, they could petition for a dismissal of the charges for lack of jurisdiction.

You understand, however that isn't true, so the anti-immigrant arguing point regarding children born in the U.S. whose parents are undocumented, just met the truth.
 
The Resister said:
That's an oranges and apples response. The anti-immigrant forces have argued, for years, that a child born in the United States to undocumented parents is not a U.S. citizen because the undocumented people are not "within the jurisdiction" per the 14th Amendment. IF that were true (and I assure you that it most assuredly is not), if an undocumented immigrant were to be brought into court for a crime, they could petition for a dismissal of the charges for lack of jurisdiction.

You understand, however that isn't true, so the anti-immigrant arguing point regarding children born in the U.S. whose parents are undocumented, just met the truth.
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The 14th Amendment "subject to the jurisdiction of" quote refers to the US Government having control over the person, i.e conscription, etc, as illegals can not be conscripted into the military, their home nation still has "jurisdiction" over them, all because they failed to enter the US properly. A permanent immigrant can be conscripted, a temporary visitor can not as they owe allegiance elsewhere.

Senator Trumball:
The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.
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Justice Gray in the Wong Kim Ark case says it this way:
The object of the Fourteenth Amendment, as is well known, was to confer upon the colored race the right of citizenship. It, however, gave to the colored people no right superior to that granted to the white race. The ancestors of all the colored people then in the United States were of foreign birth, and could not have been naturalized or in any way have become entitled to the right of citizenship. The colored people were no more subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, by reason of their birth here, than were the white children born in this country of parents who were not citizens. The same rule must be applied to both races, and unless the general rule, that, when the parents are domiciled here, birth establishes the right to citizenship, is accepted, the Fourteenth Amendment has failed to accomplish its purpose, and the colored people are not citizens. The Fourteenth Amendment, by the language, "all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," was intended [p693] to bring all races, without distinction of color, within the rule which prior to that time pertained to the white race.

Benny v. O'Brien (1895), 29 Vroom (58 N.J.Law), 36, 39, 40.
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and
Chinese persons, born out of the United States, remaining subjects of the Emperor of China, and not having become citizens of the United States, are entitled to the protection of, and owe allegiance to, the United States so long as they are permitted by the United States to reside here, and are " subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the same sense as all other aliens residing in the United States.
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It looks as though there are stipulations as to the parents domicil (a legal matter) and residence in order for the child to be born a US citizen. "ubject to the jurisdiction there of" looks to be a political status requirement, not just a civil status requirement.
 
Attusblack said:
The 14th Amendment "subject to the jurisdiction of" quote refers to the US Government having control over the person, i.e conscription, etc, as illegals can not be conscripted into the military, their home nation still has "jurisdiction" over them, all because they failed to enter the US properly. A permanent immigrant can be conscripted, a temporary visitor can not as they owe allegiance elsewhere.

Senator Trumball:

Justice Gray in the Wong Kim Ark case says it this way:
and


It looks as though there are stipulations as to the parents domicil (a legal matter) and residence in order for the child to be born a US citizen. "ubject to the jurisdiction there of" looks to be a political status requirement, not just a civil status requirement.
Click to expand...


Did I respond to you? Have I not asked you to quit trolling me? Why are you still following me around? I just want you to leave me alone. Really. Do I owe you something?

The mindless drivel you've posted in response to me is not worth commenting on. And so, don't expect a response. the ONLY response you'll get from me is to tell you to LEAVE ME ALONE. I don't like being stalked nor trolled.
 
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