I bet they were illegal...

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

There are many good and kind illegal immigrants in this country. I met an illegal immigrant while working as a temp at Amazon and we discussed limits in Calculus. I know he was a hard worker. He clearly wasn't a dummy. If ICE came and took him away I would feel bad but ultimately decide that it was necessary.

People who oppose illegal immigration don't hate illegals. People who are opposed to illegal immigrants want the laws enforced. If there is a virulence or vehemence in opinions I can safely say that it largely stems from some of them literally flaunting our laws. I can safely say that it is largely because the ones who aren't trying to be productive get caught and then released. I can safely say that the vast majority of people opposed to illegal immigration want our laws enforced.

In general, I think the negotiation should occur between Rs and Ds and independents such that for every concession on path to citizenship for good, taxpaying, long time illegals, there is commensurate border improvements and funding to ensure that while we're giving *some* leniency for existing, that we aren't incentivizing the issue, and we aren't forgetting how we got there in the first place.

If Republicans could compromise on this to get some real good accomplished, while also making allowance for our to-date lax laws that resulted in people really setting down roots here as Americans (good standing aside from the immigration violation, jobs, etc.) For all I know it's liberals that won't bend though, I don't recall how even-handed the negotiations have been.

If neither occurs, we'll just keep on with the status quo.

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reminder, I just took my trash out. I scrap metal and am always on the lookout for repurposables. Slingshot Bob, saving the world, one dumpster at a time!

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

Immigration IS "cut and dried."

Either you are Legal, and welcome; or you are Illegal and must go home and come back via the Legal route if you really want to be here.

Mach said:

In general, I think the negotiation should occur between Rs and Ds and independents such that for every concession on path to citizenship for good, taxpaying, long time illegals, there is commensurate border improvements and funding to ensure that while we're giving *some* leniency for existing, that we aren't incentivizing the issue, and we aren't forgetting how we got there in the first place.

If Republicans could compromise on this to get some real good accomplished, while also making allowance for our to-date lax laws that resulted in people really setting down roots here as Americans (good standing aside from the immigration violation, jobs, etc.) For all I know it's liberals that won't bend though, I don't recall how even-handed the negotiations have been.

If neither occurs, we'll just keep on with the status quo.

Click to expand...

We have compromised too many times granting citizenships to aliens who have broken our laws. How many times do we reward citizens for breaking our laws. How many citizens in this country have a felony record for marijuana that will never go away but if you at an alien and sneak back in with a different name you have a clean record. This is wrong. Our border needs to be secure and background checks done.

Sorry but is time to stop giving in to criminals with no respect for our laws or the people of this country who made the laws. It is time the democrats made concessions and we start enforcing our laws and immigration policies.

Yep, as the thread seems to be leading:

Being 'legal', and being 'nice', have no dependence or relationship. One is either legal or not. The law is (should be) blind.

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

Being here in the US illegally doesn't inherently mean the person is also a bad person. In some instances, coming here, and staying here, illegally may be the only crime a person has committed. All, not most but all, of the illegals I have ever met (and found out they were illegal aliens) were some of the hardest working, pleasant, and friendly people I have ever met. I liked them all, respected them all as a person, and was impressed by their work ethic, their strong family ties, and their personal moral code (with the exception of the immoral act of entering and staying here illegally).

That said, if you want to come to the US to get a job, and you plan on accepting our benevolence of a free education for your non-citizen kids, and other such benefits of being here in the US, then sign the guest register (get a work permit/green card) at the front door, don't slip in an open window or sneak through the back door when no one is looking, oh... and get out of the shadows so we can add your distinctive culture and vitality to our own -- follow the law. All of the law. I have to. Why shouldn't they?

Beaudreaux said:

Being here in the US illegally doesn't inherently mean the person is also a bad person. In some instances, coming here, and staying here, illegally may be the only crime a person has committed. All, not most but all, of the illegals I have ever met (and found out they were illegal aliens) were some of the hardest working, pleasant, and friendly people I have ever met. I liked them all, respected them all as a person, and was impressed by their work ethic, their strong family ties, and their personal moral code (with the exception of the immoral act of entering and staying here illegally).

That said, if you want to come to the US to get a job, and you plan on accepting our benevolence of a free education for your non-citizen kids, and other such benefits of being here in the US, then sign the guest register (get a work permit/green card) at the front door, don't slip in an open window or sneak through the back door when no one is looking, oh... and get out of the shadows so we can add your distinctive culture and vitality to our own -- follow the law. All of the law. I have to. Why shouldn't they?

Click to expand...

You know, you've got your sentiments. But I'm getting tired of hearing how hardworking, decent, and nice, illegal aliens are.

'Nice' is totally irrelevant, and seems a way to obfuscate their image, which is that of the lawbreakers they are.

The world is full of (mostly) nice people, but most don't come here to break our laws. There's always an excuse to break laws, if you're a lawbreaker that is! "Tell it to the judge", is all I have to say about this.

I'm sorry, but our country is something special in that it is a republic based upon one's fidelity to the Constitution. Everyone that wants to be like us - loyal to the Constitution - is welcome to earn the privilege of joining our ranks. Just swear the same oath we all did.

But when your first act in attempting to earn what we have, your first act in attempting to enjoin yourself to us, is breaking our laws to misrepresent yourself, I have little use for you. Start-off on a better foot, next time.

reinoe said:

There are many good and kind illegal immigrants in this country. I met an illegal immigrant while working as a temp at Amazon and we discussed limits in Calculus. I know he was a hard worker. He clearly wasn't a dummy. If ICE came and took him away I would feel bad but ultimately decide that it was necessary.

People who oppose illegal immigration don't hate illegals. People who are opposed to illegal immigrants want the laws enforced. If there is a virulence or vehemence in opinions I can safely say that it largely stems from some of them literally flaunting our laws. I can safely say that it is largely because the ones who aren't trying to be productive get caught and then released. I can safely say that the vast majority of people opposed to illegal immigration want our laws enforced.

Click to expand...

I agree. Probably most of us have turned a blind eye more than once just because we didn't have the heart to report somebody we were pretty sure was in the country illegally but who were thoughtful, considerate, helpful people. But we can't have it both ways and say the ones we are fond of or respect should stay and everybody else go home.

I deeply hope immigration reform includes better provisions for guest worker programs and other means for people we want to be here to get here more easily but we still have to secure our border so that the law determines who can and cannot be here legally.

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

Well it's a step above betting they're illegal because they have brown skin.

Winchester said:

Well it's a step above betting they're illegal because they have brown skin.

Click to expand...

You made me stop and think why I thought that. It was because, I think, neither The mom nor the dad spoke English. Wendy, their daughter, had no accent so was either born here or came to live here before age ten or eleven. She was probably about 17.

So that reasoning made up part of my assumption. The rest came from their being so grateful that they had hit what I could tell they felt was a treasure trove.

I wasn't aware Spanish people had brown skin...?

MaggieD said:

You made me stop and think why I thought that. It was because, I think, neither The mom nor the dad spoke English. Wendy, their daughter, had no accent so was either born here or came to live here before age ten or eleven. She was probably about 17.

So that reasoning made up part of my assumption. The rest came from their being so grateful that they had hit what I could tell they felt was a treasure trove.

I wasn't aware Spanish people had brown skin...?

Click to expand...

If they're from Central America they can. Aborigines and Some people from INDIA also have very dark skin.

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

I am sure there are lots of other criminals who are nice and hardworking. The fact they are nice and hard working doesn't change the fact they are here illegally and need to go.

MaggieD said:

You made me stop and think why I thought that. It was because, I think, neither The mom nor the dad spoke English. Wendy, their daughter, had no accent so was either born here or came to live here before age ten or eleven. She was probably about 17.

So that reasoning made up part of my assumption. The rest came from their being so grateful that they had hit what I could tell they felt was a treasure trove.

I wasn't aware Spanish people had brown skin...?

Click to expand...

I've worked with several people who were here legally, but didn't speak much if any English... only their kids did. It's not so cut and dry.

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

I don't know their status, but it sounds like they were polite, orderly and industrious. I bet they are turning that "junk" into dollars as we speak. We need more people like that.

MaggieD said:

You made me stop and think why I thought that. It was because, I think, neither The mom nor the dad spoke English. Wendy, their daughter, had no accent so was either born here or came to live here before age ten or eleven. She was probably about 17.

So that reasoning made up part of my assumption. The rest came from their being so grateful that they had hit what I could tell they felt was a treasure trove.

I wasn't aware Spanish people had brown skin...?

Click to expand...

That's it though, you can't know a person's status just because of language (or skin color). Of course you may very well be right, but it's very common for first generation immigrants (or migrant work families) where the parents can't or have a very difficult time with the language but their children are fluent. There is a lot of negative rhetoric against illegals right now and to me there is danger when people start making assumptions.

Winchester said:

That's it though, you can't know a person's status just because of language (or skin color). Of course you may very well be right, but it's very common for first generation immigrants (or migrant work families) where the parents can't or have a very difficult time with the language but their children are fluent. There is a lot of negative rhetoric against illegals right now and to me there is danger when people start making assumptions.

Click to expand...

There's always a danger when you make assumptions.

Mach said:

In general, I think the negotiation should occur between Rs and Ds and independents such that for every concession on path to citizenship for good, taxpaying, long time illegals, there is commensurate border improvements and funding to ensure that while we're giving *some* leniency for existing, that we aren't incentivizing the issue, and we aren't forgetting how we got there in the first place.

If Republicans could compromise on this to get some real good accomplished, while also making allowance for our to-date lax laws that resulted in people really setting down roots here as Americans (good standing aside from the immigration violation, jobs, etc.) For all I know it's liberals that won't bend though, I don't recall how even-handed the negotiations have been.

If neither occurs, we'll just keep on with the status quo.

Click to expand...

That's been tried before under Reagan and guess what happened...millions got amnesty and the promised border security didn't happen. That was back in the 80's and now people want us to do it again?

No.

Border security first...now. Enforcement...now. LATER...if there are any illegal aliens left and they have been proven to NOT be hard criminals...yeah, we can have some compassion. Not before.

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

Maggie, I've worked alongside people who originally came to this country illegal on multiple occasions. Some of them were hard workers, others were useless. But NONE of that matters in light of the fact that they had broken the law. Someone who spends Mon-Fri working with homeless people, but sells crack to Jr. High kids on Sat and Sun is still a criminal. Our laws aren't some kind of balancing act where if you are good enough person, then you get a bye.

PIPEWRENCH said:

Sorry but is time to stop giving in to criminals with no respect for our laws or the people of this country who made the laws. It is time the democrats made concessions and we start enforcing our laws and immigration policies.

Click to expand...

Platitudes.
I am suggesting you and the others who agreed with you, be more specific. Also, claiming it's time for democrats to make concessions, when Republicans control the presidency, the house, and the senate, is absurd.

We currently have some 11M illegals. About 60% of them have been here for 10+ years
Approximately 8M have jobs (~5% of work force).
11M will never be deported, the cost, the loss of 8M workers, the backlash of 10 year families with jobs being ripped up, this hasn't, and will never, occur.
Everyone with a brain knows this. It is 100% useless in *reality* to hold that as a primary position of value. It is worthless, it's worth ZERO in the battle to reduce illegal immigration.

Even under Trump with his unprecedented push on immigration, you know how many interior non-criminals are being rounded up?
https://www.ice.gov/features/100-days

which increased from approximately 4,200 in 2016 to more than 10,800 in 2017.

Click to expand...

That's first 100, let's be generous: 4x11K = 44K estimated if we can keep that pace. (sadly these are also the easiest and most appropriate to deport. It would be harder incrementally)
What's that work out to Pipewrench? 250 years later we'll have those 11M deported? <- that's the chip you are holding close to your chest.
What do you want? You want to make a dramatic change in the reduction of illegals in the U.S.?

You have this bargaining piece. "what to do with 11M illegals". It has ZERO political value right now to (anti-immigrant) positions. It sounds dreamy to say "they must all go", but that's not reality. The reality is, that it was, now, and will always be, a worthless position to hold.

Successful negotiation involves trading things that hold low/no value to you, to the opposition, in return for things with much higher value to you. And keep in mind "opposition" in this case is all opposition including businesses who employ those 8M, R's, D's, illegals, legals, the wider public, etc.

Personally I would try to trade that 100% worthless position, for something of greater value in the struggle to stop illegal immigration.
Trump could have tried to trade it for his wall, or for dramatic increases in immigration funding, etc., but instead while at the micro level he's made improvements, it's re-arranging the chairs on the deck of the titanic.

Perhaps Republicans don't want to resolve the issue, because they drum up too much support from the base with it?

Mycroft said:

That's been tried before under Reagan and guess what happened...millions got amnesty and the promised border security didn't happen. That was back in the 80's and now people want us to do it again?

Click to expand...

Sounds like someone wrote a bad contract.

Border security first...now. Enforcement...now.
LATER...if there are any illegal aliens left and they have been proven to NOT be hard criminals...yeah, we can have some compassion. Not before.

Click to expand...

I agree, do those things now.
I also agree the reverse is possibly a good thing. I've said it before, and again....Democrats should embrace illegal immigration enforcement first (as a matter of common sense), and dealing with most of the 11M second. Perhaps they would get more action on the 11M if as you note, they gave immigration enforcement some support. Obama *did* deport more than any other prior president, it's not like they gave them free reign, but verbally perhaps he was more on the fence.
They continue to give Republicans a huge recruiting tool/opposition rhetoric when they, in some cases, outright defend illegal immigration in general. It's nuts.

MaggieD said:

My cousin came over today to help me rid my garage and shed of a hoarder's presence. My DP blog explains more, but I'm thinking many of you understand.

We worked hard because garbage day is tomorrow. So many useful things this single lady will never use taking up room and causing clutter (a kind adjective) that I couldn't abide.

So we had piles for her son who'd just bought a home, one for garbage, one for Goodwill, and one for "let's put it out front with the rest of the garbage and see if anyone picks it up."

about two two hours in, we had a considerable pile at the street and a van pulled up giving us a high sign like, "Is it okay to poke thru?" Of COURSE! They took everything. Everything! Made three trips. And when they were done, only their teenage daughter spoke English, they carried every scrap of garbage tomthe curb and stacked it carefully for pickup.

I was sooo GRATEFUL! I have my house back!

Im betting they were illegal. Mom and dad spoke no English. Their daughter was Americanized...guessing born here.

aimmogration isn't cut and dried. Right? What's YOUR answer?

Click to expand...

I believe we should enforce existing immigration laws.

Having said that, if I were decluttering and someone wanted to haul away all my stuff for free, I'd be thrilled. I wouldn't care their status.

Mach said:

Sounds like someone wrote a bad contract.


I agree, do those things now.
I also agree the reverse is possibly a good thing. I've said it before, and again....Democrats should embrace illegal immigration enforcement first (as a matter of common sense), and dealing with most of the 11M second. Perhaps they would get more action on the 11M if as you note, they gave immigration enforcement some support. Obama *did* deport more than any other prior president, it's not like they gave them free reign, but verbally perhaps he was more on the fence.
They continue to give Republicans a huge recruiting tool/opposition rhetoric when they, in some cases, outright defend illegal immigration in general. It's nuts.

Click to expand...

Yes...the Democrats SHOULD do all that...but they won't. They cannot weather the storm that would result.

I won't comment on your statement about how many Obama deported. There are disputes to that contention and I am undecided.

MaggieD said:

You made me stop and think why I thought that. It was because, I think, neither The mom nor the dad spoke English. Wendy, their daughter, had no accent so was either born here or came to live here before age ten or eleven. She was probably about 17.

So that reasoning made up part of my assumption. The rest came from their being so grateful that they had hit what I could tell they felt was a treasure trove.

I wasn't aware Spanish people had brown skin...?

Click to expand...

My father in law spoke decent English, but heavily accented. When in public he would let mother in law speak for him as her English was much easier to understand..