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Who will harvest the crops?

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
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In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:
Despite conservatives’ claim of the contrary, the number of undocumented Mexican immigrants in America is on the decline, reported the Wall Street Journal. This decrease is beginning to affect farmers as there aren’t enough Americans willing to work on these farms, a job usually occupied by undocumented Mexican immigrants.
Click to expand...
As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:
‘So what are you Westside farmers whining about now?’ I asked Del Bosque when I visited him Monday in his office, a modest double-wide trailer on the edge of an almond orchard off Interstate 5. He chuckled. Farmers are always complaining about something. If they aren’t complaining, it’s because they’re too busy worrying. Del Bosque is, as usual, worried about water. But he’s also worried about immigration, and about President Trump’s vow to deport people who are here illegally. Del Bosque, and just about every grower he knows, depends on migrant labor for harvests.
‘We need a workforce,’ he said. ‘We can’t have immigration come here and round everyone up and deport them. Coupled with building a wall, it will ruin us. It will ruin the whole fruit and vegetable industry.’ [….] California agriculture simply cannot work without migrant labor. For example, the main towns around Del Bosque’s 2,000 acres — Dos Palos, Firebaugh, and Mendota — have a combined population of about 20,000, children included.
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Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
 
It is a tough issue. Our agriculture economy has been built on the backs of migrant workers, but documented and undocumented. Wages for such work would have to drastically increase to attract American workers to do the same job. And we know who those costs will be passed in to.
 
Dittohead not! said:
In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:

As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:

Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
Click to expand...

No doubt all those Boeing workers will quickly migrate down to Imperial Valley and quickly fill in all those "great paying jobs" that Trump keeps talking about. :roll:
 
People who blindly hate any group of people never, ever, ever think through the implications of their actions. Such as, say, how they're going to be able to put food on the table. Which, you know, kind of matters if you're one of those "white working class" people that apparently won the election for Donald.
 
Dittohead not! said:
In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:

As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:

Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
Click to expand...

Automation and actual Americans will replace the migrants. Mr Poor farmer will have to invest some money in his farm and in his hiring program. You go out to the Central Valley in California which is were Mr. Bosque's farms are, and look at the help wanted ads. You know what you don't find? Ads for farm labor. He has out there as well farm labor companies that provide farm labor, and even transport the labor to is his fields and back. They also act as cut outs for Mr. Bosque and his ilk in case Immigration comes around, he is clean because he just hired a farm labor company which provided the labor. There is a lot more to this story and the farmers certainly aren't saints, who do you think pushed the americans who were doing the jobs, out in the first place? I still live in these neck of the woods so I know what's going on, at least for a little while longer till I finish moving.
 
Phys251 said:
People who blindly hate any group of people never, ever, ever think through the implications of their actions. Such as, say, how they're going to be able to put food on the table. Which, you know, kind of matters if you're one of those "white working class" people that apparently won the election for Donald.
Click to expand...

Take LBJ and his war on poverty. The hate was there,(Johnson was a racist) the implications have ruined the black family and turned inner cities into ****holes or war zones.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Automation and actual Americans will replace the migrants. Mr Poor farmer will have to invest some money in his farm and in his hiring program. You go out to the Central Valley in California which is were Mr. Bosque's farms are, and look at the help wanted ads. You know what you don't find? Ads for farm labor. He has out there as well farm labor companies that provide farm labor, and even transport the labor to is his fields and back. They also act as cut outs for Mr. Bosque and his ilk in case Immigration comes around, he is clean because he just hired a farm labor company which provided the labor. There is a lot more to this story and the farmers certainly aren't saints, who do you think pushed the americans who were doing the jobs, out in the first place? I still live in these neck of the woods so I know what's going on, at least for a little while longer till I finish moving.
Click to expand...

I certainly don't think the farmers are saints. But people need to expect to pay more for their groceries.
 
BrewerBob said:
I certainly don't think the farmers are saints. But people need to expect to pay more for their groceries.
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I agree with that notion initially. But eventually the labor is going to be replaced with automation.
 
coldjoint said:
Take LBJ and his war on poverty. The hate was there,(Johnson was a racist) the implications have ruined the black family and turned inner cities into ****holes or war zones.
Click to expand...

LBJ was president in the 1960s. We are in the year 2017. Please try to keep up.
 
Phys251 said:
LBJ was president in the 1960s. We are in the year 2017. Please try to keep up.
Click to expand...

You are calling people haters. Are you saying that started in 2017?
 
coldjoint said:
You are calling people haters. Are you saying that started in 2017?
Click to expand...

And that's your second deflection in as many posts. Now let's return to the OP and discuss how crops are going to be harvested if it is the undocumented workers and not the crops themselves that are harvested. Could you please provide us a rational explanation to that?
 
BrewerBob said:
It is a tough issue. Our agriculture economy has been built on the backs of migrant workers, but documented and undocumented. Wages for such work would have to drastically increase to attract American workers to do the same job. And we know who those costs will be passed in to.
Click to expand...

Only about 4% of the illegal immigrant population is even employed in farming. And roughly 75% of the farming workforce is composed of legal farming work force. Enforcing out immigration laws is not going to make the price of lettuce rise significantly.
 
Oh I dont know...how about welfare recipients?
 
Phys251 said:
And that's your second deflection in as many posts. Now let's return to the OP and discuss how crops are going to be harvested if it is the undocumented workers and not the crops themselves that are harvested. Could you please provide us a rational explanation to that?
Click to expand...

It is not a deflection. You called people who oppose illegal immigration haters. What do you think that solves?
 
When we get rid of the illegals it will have a small impact on the number of workers available to harvest crops.

This small deficit can be filled with Americans who need a job.

The rich farmers will probably have to raise the pay a little.

It won't kill the farmers and will help the poor people.......American poor people.

Take these Mexicans........please.
 
Dittohead not! said:
In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:

As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:

Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
Click to expand...

Migrant labor is not the problem. Illegal immigration is. And yes, Mexican laborers have been coming into the border states to harvest the crops for many many generations, but once the harvest is done, they used to go home again with the honest money they made. Win win for all--no strain on social services, no issues with career criminals taking up residence here, etc.

But once we put a welfare state into place and the courts extended it to illegals, plus a series of administrations with no will to deal with it, the problem has gotten out of hands. Millions didn't go home. They came and they have stayed. And the vast majority of them are not harvesting the crops.

Common sense allows us to separate the two things--illegal immigration and guest worker programs that we NEED. But the fanatical ideologues who only see things one way--the way that supports their ideology--will never allow any other point of view.
 
Dittohead not! said:
In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:

As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:

Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
Click to expand...

Here's a thought, let's take all the gang banging thugs out of the city and put them on farms to pick fruit and vegetables. Maybe the fresh air and exercise with straighten their heads out.
 
BrewerBob said:
It is a tough issue. Our agriculture economy has been built on the backs of migrant workers, but documented and undocumented. Wages for such work would have to drastically increase to attract American workers to do the same job. And we know who those costs will be passed in to.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is an indication that the current agricultural business model is not sustainable. The model is required for Corporate profit agendas not environmental sustainability and/or human emotional stability. Sorta' relates to the demise of the small family farm in the USA. A model dedicated to renewable energy and small farms would address Global Warming and create millions of jobs, but not much profit for the Corporate agenda. So that ain't gonna' happen because the Corporate agenda is in control. They'll probably start a program where they bus immigrants from the border to the farms and, after harvest season, bus them back.
/
 
AlbqOwl said:
Migrant labor is not the problem. Illegal immigration is. And yes, Mexican laborers have been coming into the border states to harvest the crops for many many generations, but once the harvest is done, they used to go home again with the honest money they made. Win win for all--no strain on social services, no issues with career criminals taking up residence here, etc.

But once we put a welfare state into place and the courts extended it to illegals, plus a series of administrations with no will to deal with it, the problem has gotten out of hands. Millions didn't go home. They came and they have stayed. And the vast majority of them are not harvesting the crops.

Common sense allows us to separate the two things--illegal immigration and guest worker programs that we NEED. But the fanatical ideologues who only see things one way--the way that supports their ideology--will never allow any other point of view.
Click to expand...

Yep. In my state in the deep south, there are legal farm workers from Mexico who are legally transported here during the picking season by bus with proper documents, then bused home when the season ends. it's no problem.
 
Dittohead not! said:
In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:

As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:

Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
Click to expand...




There's plenty of people who will harvest crops.


I did, as a teenager. It was a common job in the area for teens who needed summer work, along with people who couldn't get a better job for whatever reason, and some retirees looking for extra money. Wasn't a Mexican to be seen in the field at that time.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Yep. In my state in the deep south, there are legal farm workers from Mexico who are legally transported here during the picking season by bus with proper documents, then bused home when the season ends. it's no problem.
Click to expand...

And that is the way it should be. Nobody, certainly not the President, has any kind of vendetta against the Mexican people, and I don't know a soul who has any objection to folks coming here to do a specific job if there aren't enough American laborers who need the work. That kind of thing is the most honorable and least destructive foreign aid there is, and every penny of it goes to those who need the money instead of most of it being swallowed up in government bureaucracies.

And it doesn't cost the taxpayer a dime--well maybe a few just to do the paperwork required to keep it all legal, but certainly no more than that.
 
Dittohead not! said:
In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:

As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:

Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
Click to expand...
I have little sympathy for the farmers here.

They had no choice if they were to stay competitive, but they ran their businesses openly off the backs of illegal workers!

We allowed illegal immigration and employment to occur decade after decade, slipping further and further into what I can only call an abyss. And now we've sunk so far, we're pretty much screwed.

But to hell with it, I say. Stop illegal immigration and illegal employment, and let the chips fall where they may. We'll have to go through the pain we've caused to ourselves through our negligence, but so be it. We will hopefully emerge on the other-side in a better place.

I hate to admit it, but I'm with Trump and his supporters on this one. I may not like the asshole. But I'm willing to say the asshole is right in his general idea here, even if he often falters on the specific technical implementation and has an abhorrent personal demeanor & disposition.
 
BrewerBob said:
It is a tough issue. Our agriculture economy has been built on the backs of migrant workers, but documented and undocumented. Wages for such work would have to drastically increase to attract American workers to do the same job. And we know who those costs will be passed in to.
Click to expand...

Farmers/Ranchers (at least those producing commodities) don't have the ability to pass the costs onto anyone.
 
BrewerBob said:
I certainly don't think the farmers are saints. But people need to expect to pay more for their groceries.
Click to expand...
No doubt!

We've really screwed ourselves here, to be honest.

We've had some terribly painful times in this country attempting to resolve the sins of our past. Slavery comes to mind. So does our early treatment of Native Americans. And while perhaps not equatable, it's my opinion that the political parties - our government - fostered a sin upon us by allowing illegal immigration and illegal employment to the level it has.

And now if we are to right it, like any sinful errant societal behavior - correcting it will have a price to pay.

I can't believe how far we've let this problem go. And if anything good comes out of this Trump Presidency, a societally supported reversal of illegal immigration might be a shining light in what seems to be a very dark & dim start to his term.
 
Dittohead not! said:
In the new zeal to find a simplistic answer to the complex issue of illegal immigration, it seems the farmers (most of whom in this area voted for Trump, BTW) have been forgotten.
This is nothing new, of course from 2014:

As you may recall, back in 2014 the White House was occupied by a Democrat who "wanted open borders" according to his political detractors.
So, now we have a Republican dedicated to the idea of deporting millions of people and building a wall.
According to one large grower:

Illegal immigration is not a Democrat vs. Republican issue, nor is it something that can be easily fixed. Simplistic solutions to complex problems seldom can.
Click to expand...

I say able bodied welfare recipients , put their butts to work !!
 
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